Impact wrenches should be banned!

[Warrenator]

Impact wrenches should be banned! Or you should have to take a test to buy one, or maybe they should only work in the Loosen direction, not the tighten direction!

I spent a few hours battling the wheel hub bearing bolts on my Jeep Grand Cherokee, the right sides came off with a minimum of swearing, Kroil, and a blowtorch, the left side still hasn't come off so I will probably need to grind them out. Some dummy installed them with an impact wrench.... I will probably have to replace the whole steering knuckle just because some gorilla overtightened the darn things!

This is why I have to work on my own vehicles, can't trust mechanics (especially chassis mechanics) to not mangle parts.

 

[toolaholic]

You could try a torque multiplier .

 

[timdgsr]

My favorite is when they load the lug nut right into the impact then hammer it home on the stud without threading it on a bit first.

 

[woody 73]

When time is money and your paycheck is on the line you get it down no matter what; like you said you want it done right the first time you do it yourself.

 

[Tonyuk]

can't trust mechanics (especially chassis mechanics) to not mangle parts.

I've never seen cars butchered worse than by some dreamer who thinks he knows best, working in his driveway, because he "cant trust mechanics!"

 

[Mike.ASC]

Just curious , how do you know it was installed/tightened with a impact wrench...?

 

[dsimatt]

Just curious , how do you know it was installed/tightened with a impact wrench...?

There are those on here better than everyone else and know everything wrong was caused by some stupid tech.

 

[Buickspec6231]

A good cross thread is better than any loc-tite. Of course, this is in jest.

 

[jumbojak]

You can have mine when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

 

[KBigg]

I've never seen cars butchered worse than by some dreamer who thinks he knows best, working in his driveway, because he "cant trust mechanics!"

This.

 

[Buickspec6231]

They previous person probably tightened the bearing to the Nm spec, of like 250Nm instead of ft lbs. Time to throw a piece of pipe over your breaker bar. Many times leverage wins over your impact guns. Use your bodyweight to your advantage.

 

[visionguru]

Impact wrenches should be banned! Or you should have to take a test to buy one, or maybe they should only work in the Loosen direction, not the tighten direction!

I spent a few hours battling the wheel hub bearing bolts on my Jeep Grand Cherokee, the right sides came off with a minimum of swearing, Kroil, and a blowtorch, the left side still hasn't come off so I will probably need to grind them out. Some dummy installed them with an impact wrench.... I will probably have to replace the whole steering knuckle just because some gorilla overtightened the darn things!

This is why I have to work on my own vehicles, can't trust mechanics (especially chassis mechanics) to not mangle parts.

Or, you could just buy a good impact wrench.

 

[Stooge]

I would assume most are snugged on with an impact wrench and then torqued down correctly, that's what I've always done and seen done. Were you not using an impact to take the old ones off? trying to take it off by hand with a ratchet never crosses my mind for hubs, just assume they're going to be torqued tight, and stuck from being semi exposed to the weather, and use an impact to zip them off.

 

[CR888]

If I was the OP I'd a trusty 'chassis mechanic' & ask if you can borrow a decent impact to remove your lugs. Whether he'd lend it to a driveway specialist with overtightened nuts is a different story. Often the tool gets blamed when in fact its the 'tool' using said tool. Its funny when the driveway tech who knows everything can't change tyres.

 

[Nick Danger]

I would take it to the tire shop and pay $5 a wheel to get the nuts off, and reinstalled with the right torque.

 

[jsmeece]

If I was the OP I'd a trusty 'chassis mechanic' & ask if you can borrow a decent impact to remove your lugs. Whether he'd lend it to a driveway specialist with overtightened nuts is a different story. Often the tool gets blamed when in fact its the 'tool' using said tool. Its funny when the driveway tech who knows everything can't change tyres.

I don't think wheel hub bearing bolts are the same thing as lug nuts.

 

[rlitman]

There are those on here better than everyone else and know everything wrong was caused by some stupid tech.

Yeah, exactly.

Anyway, unit hub bearing bolts are screwed into through holes. Flange bolts in blind holes seal relatively well, and aren't that prone to corrosion. But in a through hole, the exposed tail end allows moisture in around the threads, and these sort of bolts really like to seize up (the same goes for caliper hanger bolts).

I'm not a fan of anti-seize on hub bearing bolts (I do use it on the machined contact surfaces where the bearing fits into the knuckle), but instead use blue thread locker. It doesn't really hold that tightly, but it hold more than anti-seize, and more importantly, it seals the threads against the weather.

 

[KBATN]

As someone who worked in the automotive industry as a parts thrower for Ford and aftermarket I have seen them all. The idiot techs that do half *** work to beat the book or break the part cause they're an idiot, but claim it was broken in the box (even though the box was in perfect shape before I gave it to them). I have also seen techs that are masters in what they do and wouldn't hesitate to bring my **** to them.

Yes, I have seen techs use their impact guns for their torque wrench. At least a couple times a year we had customers come back after losing a tire on the road (seen this happen at a ford dealer and even local Goodyear shop multiple times).

No matter what industry it is you will run into the good an bad.

 

[donebyperry]

Most shops I have ever worked in. We just go tight on wheel nuts then torqued them. Then told the customer to come back 50 miles to check the torque again. I’ve taken off the gorilla tighten ones too. But now days torqued wheel nuts are critical to operation of brakes and steering. Just my thoughts.


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[jsmeece]

Most shops I have ever worked in. We just go tight on wheel nuts then torqued them. Then told the customer to come back 50 miles to check the torque again. I’ve taken off the gorilla tighten ones too. But now days torqued wheel nuts are critical to operation of brakes and steering. Just my thoughts.


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AGAIN: wheel hub bearing bolts are NOT lug nuts!

 

[donebyperry]

I wouldn’t even put an impact on a hub nut. They are staked and you need to open the staking before taking a wrench to em.


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[anndel]

My friend who works at the Schofield Barracks Auto Crafts Shop say the soldiers use impact wrenches on everything after they watch NASCAR.

 

[donebyperry]

My friend who works at the Schofield Barracks Auto Crafts Shop say the soldiers use impact wrenches on everything after they watch NASCAR.

Of course they do.


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[rlitman]

I wouldn’t even put an impact on a hub nut. They are staked and you need to open the staking before taking a wrench to em.

You're thinking of the axle nut. The OP is talking about the three bolts that hold the unit bearing hub to the knuckle.

I don't see an issue with using an impact to REMOVE an axle nut, AFTER the staking has been undone. But they absolutely must be installed with a torque wrench to set the bearing pre-load. But unit bearing bolts don't set preload.

 

[donebyperry]

You're thinking of the axle nut. The OP is talking about the three bolts that hold the unit bearing hub to the knuckle.

Yeah and those have lock nuts. Torch them


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[jsmeece]

Yeah and those have lock nuts. Torch them


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I do not remember there being any lock nuts on the three bolts that hold a hub bearing on a Jeep. The bolts screw directly into the steering knuckle. I think these three bolts are also 12 pointed or the ones I remembering see were.

 

[Tallpilot]

As someone who worked in the automotive industry as a parts thrower for Ford and aftermarket I have seen them all. The idiot techs that do half *** work to beat the book or break the part cause they're an idiot, but claim it was broken in the box (even though the box was in perfect shape before I gave it to them). I have also seen techs that are masters in what they do and wouldn't hesitate to bring my **** to them.

Yes, I have seen techs use their impact guns for their torque wrench. At least a couple times a year we had customers come back after losing a tire on the road (seen this happen at a ford dealer and even local Goodyear shop multiple times).

No matter what industry it is you will run into the good an bad.

This is the reality. Regardless of industry human performance varies from criminally bad to absolutely amazing.

In the most general sense will someone working for money put the same above and beyond effort into caring for your equipment as they would for their own? No, they need to finish in a timely manner and move on to the next job.

If you have unlimited time and can afford to make and fix a few mistakes along the way it is almost always better to do things yourself and figure it out. Most people don't have unlimited time though.

 

[Warrenator]

OP here, answering a few questions. The 3 bolts in question are 12 point 13 mm bolts that come in from the back of the steering knuckle and hold the wheel bearing on from the back. Access is not good. It is difficult to use a breaker bar because of the angles and other components in the way. I have tried both a regular impact gun with a universal flex adapter and a compact impact wrench, both pneumatic style and in good shape. The compact one is new even, I bought it specifically for this job. It is supposed to have 700 foot pounds of breakaway torque.

And yes, I know what I'm doing. I have training and certificates and such things. I have tried all the tricks I know including heating up the wheel bearing with an oxy-propane torch, spraying where the threads poke through the bearing with penetrating oil, using a breaker bar with a pipe on (can't get access for all 3 but two I can) etc.

How do I KNOW the bolts in question were over tightened with an impact wrench? Well, the other side came off fairly easily and this side did not. It is a rust-free California car, garage kept most of its' life, so if I have a problem loosening the bolts, I gotta say they were over tightened and/or installed without anti-seize.

I would probably burn off the bolt heads with a cutting torch if I could get access, at this point I think I'm going to have to pull off the whole steering knuckle and put it in a vise so I can work on it, with means pulling a tie rod end, 2 ball joints, etc, and probably replacing more parts that got damaged in the process. Grrrrr.

 

[jsmeece]

OP here, answering a few questions. The 3 bolts in question are 12 point 13 mm bolts that come in from the back of the steering knuckle and hold the wheel bearing on from the back. Access is not good. It is difficult to use a breaker bar because of the angles and other components in the way. I have tried both a regular impact gun with a universal flex adapter and a compact impact wrench, both pneumatic style and in good shape. The compact one is new even, I bought it specifically for this job. It is supposed to have 700 foot pounds of breakaway torque.

And yes, I know what I'm doing. I have training and certificates and such things. I have tried all the tricks I know including heating up the wheel bearing with an oxy-propane torch, spraying where the threads poke through the bearing with penetrating oil, using a breaker bar with a pipe on (can't get access for all 3 but two I can) etc.

How do I KNOW the bolts in question were over tightened with an impact wrench? Well, the other side came off fairly easily and this side did not. It is a rust-free California car, garage kept most of its' life, so if I have a problem loosening the bolts, I gotta say they were over tightened and/or installed without anti-seize.

I would probably burn off the bolt heads with a cutting torch if I could get access, at this point I think I'm going to have to pull off the whole steering knuckle and put it in a vise so I can work on it, with means pulling a tie rod end, 2 ball joints, etc, and probably replacing more parts that got damaged in the process. Grrrrr.

Goodluck with your quest OP. I feel you pain, helped my brother change this front hub bearings several years ago, MAJOR PAIN! He has since sold that Jeep.

 

[Bighead38]

Post a picture.

 

[KBigg]

How do you know a mechanic put them on? Maybe the previous owner did it

 

[Warrenator]

Previous Owner was my Mom! Good at chocolate chip cookies and making teddy bears, not so much at wheel bearings.

 

[KBigg]

fair enough then

 

[G-Ram]

Have you tried hitting it with your purse?


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[redwrench60]

Quit blaming your shortcomings as a mechanic on others and get those bolts out. It can’t always be someone else’s fault. Yes I have done that very job. Yes they can be tight and difficult to access. Figure it out.

 

[PartsGuy]

Yup, they ****. Limited clearance and such, and stupid 12-point design at that. My method was pre-soak with penetrant, apply heat and then reef on it with a long zero-offset 12 point box wrench (I broke a Matco wrench doing this once, but it DOES fit in the space...)
That one was a 10 year old Jeep encrusted in NY salt and rust, so theoretically stuck worse than your California creampuff, and I weighed about 150 at the time, so I ain't no gorilla!

 

[rlitman]

... and stupid 12-point design at that...

I kind of like the 12-point design. It's much less likely to round over than a 6-point.

 

[vavet]

I'll admit I'm not familiar with the vehicle in question, but here's a thought:
If you removed the rotor and dust shield, would that allow better access from the back to get penetrating oil, even heat, etc?
Sometimes it takes time for that penetrating oil to do it's job. I'm just thinking I'd rather do the job with the steering knuckle on the car instead of on the bench, but again, I'm not there, haven't done one, etc.

 

[aka Larry]

Have you tried hitting it with your purse?

Ouch!

 

[seber]

They previous person probably tightened the bearing to the Nm spec, of like 250Nm instead of ft lbs. Time to throw a piece of pipe over your breaker bar. Many times leverage wins over your impact guns. Use your bodyweight to your advantage.

If an impact gun will not remove it, a cheater will just twist off the head.