tankwilson
Active member
Ok guys getting ready to build a 32 x 30 garage in souther Iowa.
In floor heat or hanging gas heater?
thanks
matt
In floor heat or hanging gas heater?
thanks
matt
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in floor heat or hanging heater
- Thread starter tankwilson
- Start date
I have in floor heat and would not do without it.
1. you have warm feet and cool ambient to work in. I really find this handy when WORKING in the shop enough to work up a sweat.
2. you can lay on the floor without sucking the heat out of you.
3. Tools will be warm to the touch. I have a couple of mills and lathes and they are warm to the touch even if the ambient air in the shop is cool. If you have worked with cold tools you will know what I mean.
The down side is that you have to turn the heat on 24 hours before you want to work. However if you walk out and turn on the overhead the tools will be a few hours warming up. You also have to keep track of the tubing if you want to anchor things to the floor.
lg
no neat sig line
1. you have warm feet and cool ambient to work in. I really find this handy when WORKING in the shop enough to work up a sweat.
2. you can lay on the floor without sucking the heat out of you.
3. Tools will be warm to the touch. I have a couple of mills and lathes and they are warm to the touch even if the ambient air in the shop is cool. If you have worked with cold tools you will know what I mean.
The down side is that you have to turn the heat on 24 hours before you want to work. However if you walk out and turn on the overhead the tools will be a few hours warming up. You also have to keep track of the tubing if you want to anchor things to the floor.
lg
no neat sig line
Steve in Mi
Well-known member
If you insulate the building "real well" in-floor or GFA isn't going to make a hill-o-beans difference. How you use the building can have an influence. For instance if you will be opening doors alot (moving cars in and out) then the faster recovery of GFA to inside air temperature may be the better route.
In my shop the concrete cement floor is 2 degrees cooler than the air temp with GFA due in large part to the rigid foam insulation below grade. 63 degree setpoint/air temperature and 61 degree floor temp. Readings obtained using non contacting infarred instrument.
News Flash; your body temperature is ~98.6. In order for there NOT to be heat transfer from your body to the floor (as you lay on it), the floor would have to be at a temperature above 98.6 or a perfect insulation between you and the floor. Hint: there is no perfect thermal insulator.
In my shop the concrete cement floor is 2 degrees cooler than the air temp with GFA due in large part to the rigid foam insulation below grade. 63 degree setpoint/air temperature and 61 degree floor temp. Readings obtained using non contacting infarred instrument.
News Flash; your body temperature is ~98.6. In order for there NOT to be heat transfer from your body to the floor (as you lay on it), the floor would have to be at a temperature above 98.6 or a perfect insulation between you and the floor. Hint: there is no perfect thermal insulator.
If you have a high ceiling, you can get a radiant tube heater that splits the difference. It can heat the place fast or keep it warm all over. The tube style is like having a sun overhead, so even with the doors open you can feel the heat. If you leave it going on low (with a dual stage version) you get the same affect as the floor heat.
They are quite inexpensive as well. Half my building is radiant floor heat and the pex tubing alone cost as much as the radiant tube heater I bought to heat the same sq footage in another section.
They are quite inexpensive as well. Half my building is radiant floor heat and the pex tubing alone cost as much as the radiant tube heater I bought to heat the same sq footage in another section.
6768rogues
Banned
I am in western NY, where it gets plenty cold and drafty. I have a hanging Reznor heater and I like it. In-floor heat is nice, but the initial cost for the system and the cost of a boiler can be prohibitive and the time to heat up the structure can be long if you turn the heat down when not using the building. I keep my building about 45 degrees and when I get home I can push it up to 65, go in the house to change my clothes, and it is warm when I return. I keep a couple of ceiling fans running and they push the heat down and keep the floor drier.
where in southern ia are you from?
Alot of the energy companies are giving huge rebates for geothermal heat, which you can use to heat the water for the pex.
Plus 30% federal tax credit...
sometimes that gets it down low enough that the geothermal is cheaper than a gas/electric system
Alot of the energy companies are giving huge rebates for geothermal heat, which you can use to heat the water for the pex.
Plus 30% federal tax credit...
sometimes that gets it down low enough that the geothermal is cheaper than a gas/electric system
if you can afford it ........ in floor heat. Probably should do it even if you can't afford it !!
x2 to that !!!! i'm there myself but i know she'll be worth it
tatra
Well-known member
one other negative i experienced in a truck shop was the high humidity from the evaporation of the melting snow.........and the fact that a quick in and out repair with o/h heat wouldn't get you wet, in floor, lots of wet.........the humidity was a major pain with condensation on cold surfaces [ steel doors ], tools and components rusting, and possible mold in dead air spaces...........otherwise , the comfort was great and the effieciency was phenomenal............recovery wasn't too bad , but was kept to about 65 all season.............we have the tube heaters at work and one is right over my bench and is extremely uncomfortable working under it directly for any length of time..........seems they like to blow out the tubes after just a few years too..........had one that had flames licking the ceiling for a bit before someone noticed it and shut it down...........
dirttracker18
Well-known member
I have worked in many different heated buildings. Being from northern Ontario heat is a neccessity so I have seem them all. Go the extra and put in the in floor. There is a difference and once you have it you will never go back.
It may not be as warm as your body temp but you really feel the difference when having to lie on the floor. In cold climates there is no way my concrete floor is only 2 degrees diff with forced air heating.
Another plus is when you pull in a cold winter vehicle it is warm underneath in an hour where I could leave my truck indoors with the heat up in forced air for days and still have snow and ice under it.
Worried about a wet floor? Instal a couple of overhead commercial fans. Leave them on low. Pull in vehicle, let melt, sqeegee floor out service door, (a floor drain works wonders) let dry for a few minutes with ceiling fan. With forced air, pull in vehicle and let drip on you for days.
My $0.02 but I would never go back, well worth the extra cost, cheaper to operate, more comfortable working environment with consistent temps instead of hot when the heats on and feeling cool when the blower stops.
Now being in Iowa you may not need the benefits that in floor offers in the really cold but that will be up to you.
It may not be as warm as your body temp but you really feel the difference when having to lie on the floor. In cold climates there is no way my concrete floor is only 2 degrees diff with forced air heating.
Another plus is when you pull in a cold winter vehicle it is warm underneath in an hour where I could leave my truck indoors with the heat up in forced air for days and still have snow and ice under it.
Worried about a wet floor? Instal a couple of overhead commercial fans. Leave them on low. Pull in vehicle, let melt, sqeegee floor out service door, (a floor drain works wonders) let dry for a few minutes with ceiling fan. With forced air, pull in vehicle and let drip on you for days.
My $0.02 but I would never go back, well worth the extra cost, cheaper to operate, more comfortable working environment with consistent temps instead of hot when the heats on and feeling cool when the blower stops.
Now being in Iowa you may not need the benefits that in floor offers in the really cold but that will be up to you.
tdkkart
Well-known member
Now being in Iowa you may not need the benefits that in floor offers in the really cold but that will be up to you.
I'm in Iowa, and I wouldn't be without my in floor heat evenif it cost more to use. Working in the shop is so much more comfortable I can set the T-stat 10degrees lower and still be as comfortable as I was in a forced air enviroment.
People that bad mouth in-floor radiant either haven't used it or were subjected to a badly designed or operated system.
HoosierBuddy
Well-known member
Ok guys getting ready to build a 32 x 30 garage in souther Iowa.
In floor heat or hanging gas heater?
thanks
matt
I love my in floor heat. I think it's the absolute best way to heat a building period. But, being a glass half-full kind of guy, I will point out the downsides of in floor radiant compared to forced air gas heat.
1. It's more expensive to install. Say roughly 5K vs 1K in round numbers.
2. It doesn't have the recovery. It's great for a building heated 24X7 all winter, but would be almost useless in a situation where you keep the garage unheated until you are ready to work in the building.
3. The cheapest way (BY FAR) to heat a garage (in a non-commercial setting) is to only heat it when it will be occupied. For a hobbiest, that might be an hour or two 3 nights a week and all day on Saturday for instance. GFA is great at that type of scenario. Radiant heat ***** at that.
The biggest advantages to radiant are that it is much quieter than forced air and provides a nice even heat which is more comfortable than having hot air blowing on you from a vent or radiant tubes that are making your head hot while your feet are still freezing.
If money is no object....or you need/want to heat 24X7, radiant is the berries.
I love mine.
Phil
z28toz06
Well-known member
I love my in floor heat. I think it's the absolute best way to heat a building period. But, being a glass half-full kind of guy, I will point out the downsides of in floor radiant compared to forced air gas heat.
1. It's more expensive to install. Say roughly 5K vs 1K in round numbers.
2. It doesn't have the recovery. It's great for a building heated 24X7 all winter, but would be almost useless in a situation where you keep the garage unheated until you are ready to work in the building.
3. The cheapest way (BY FAR) to heat a garage (in a non-commercial setting) is to only heat it when it will be occupied. For a hobbiest, that might be an hour or two 3 nights a week and all day on Saturday for instance. GFA is great at that type of scenario. Radiant heat ***** at that.
The biggest advantages to radiant are that it is much quieter than forced air and provides a nice even heat which is more comfortable than having hot air blowing on you from a vent or radiant tubes that are making your head hot while your feet are still freezing.
If money is no object....or you need/want to heat 24X7, radiant is the berries.
I love mine.
Phil
I agree on some level here, but there is something to be said about keeping a garage from hitting freezing temps inside. I have spray cans, bottles of car cleaner etc., that I have to box up and find someplace to store them all winter. That's a pain in the ****. I dont see why you couldn't keep the radiant in floor at 45 degrees, unlesss one couldn't afford it. I have a separate garage and i can't wait to hook up the in floor. i need 2 finish insulating the walls first, and its going 2 be a while but i'll keep it at least warm enough to prevent freezing $h1t up.
tdkkart
Well-known member
I love my in floor heat. I think it's the absolute best way to heat a building period. But, being a glass half-full kind of guy, I will point out the downsides of in floor radiant compared to forced air gas heat.
1. It's more expensive to install. Say roughly 5K vs 1K in round numbers.
2. It doesn't have the recovery. It's great for a building heated 24X7 all winter, but would be almost useless in a situation where you keep the garage unheated until you are ready to work in the building.
3. The cheapest way (BY FAR) to heat a garage (in a non-commercial setting) is to only heat it when it will be occupied. For a hobbiest, that might be an hour or two 3 nights a week and all day on Saturday for instance. GFA is great at that type of scenario. Radiant heat ***** at that.
The biggest advantages to radiant are that it is much quieter than forced air and provides a nice even heat which is more comfortable than having hot air blowing on you from a vent or radiant tubes that are making your head hot while your feet are still freezing.
If money is no object....or you need/want to heat 24X7, radiant is the berries.
I love mine.
Phil
Ditto, with the possible exception of a couple comments.
1. Cost, I suppose you have to throw in the cost of the foam board insulation, so yes it can be a bit expensive. I'd say I could do mine over again for $2000 or so for the tubing and mechanicals.
DO NOT scrimp on the insulation under and around the concrete.
2&3. In-floor radiant is a set it and forget it deal, you CAN NOT expect to change the temp on a regular basis. It takes hours and $$$ to raise the temp by 5*.
I promised myself years ago that I woudl have a heated shop or not, nothing in between. I've done the bouncing temp deal and won't deal with it again, too hard on me and my tools and equipment.
4. quiet and comfortable. Absolutely. The only sound that comes out of mine is the pump relays as it turns on and off and a very slight hum from the pumps. My system has 2 pumps, I have to walk over and lay hands on them to tell if one or both are on.
The heat at work is a perfect reminder of what's wrong with forced air, especially if it's in a building that may be less than optimally insulated. If it's on I'm hot, if it's off I'm cold.
I love mine too.......
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Probably the first question you should answer is how often are you going to "use" the heat in your garage? (For what are you going to use the heat)?
How much are you able/willing to pay for installation and annual usage?
I think you have been given most of the info needed to help you address
the above questions.
Re: the U-tube overhead radiant heaters ... I one of my BILs has a large shop
heated by this method. He loves it.
It might be just I, but I do not like "wind" blowing when I am in an enclosed work area.
Keep in mind, keeping your garage heated when storing vehicles exposed to road
salt will accelerate the rusting process.
How much are you able/willing to pay for installation and annual usage?
I think you have been given most of the info needed to help you address
the above questions.
Re: the U-tube overhead radiant heaters ... I one of my BILs has a large shop
heated by this method. He loves it.
It might be just I, but I do not like "wind" blowing when I am in an enclosed work area.
Keep in mind, keeping your garage heated when storing vehicles exposed to road
salt will accelerate the rusting process.
kb2tha
Well-known member
In regards to the problem of freezing solvents, paints, etc. it would be simple enough to make use of an old refrigerator or freezer compartment wired with an internal light bulb thermostatically controlled. Is anybody doing this?
Dragster Racer
Well-known member
My propane supplier told me he loves in floor heat....because of it's lack of efficiency. He said even with insulation you are trying to heat the ground. Hot AIR rises, but convection works in all directions including down. Plus, no set back on in floor. He said he has never seen a situation where the in floor used less gas than conventional heating. Just passing that along. If I were going to be in the shop every day for most of the day, in floor might be the way for me. That just isn't my reality.
My propane supplier told me he loves in floor heat....because of it's lack of efficiency. He said even with insulation you are trying to heat the ground. Hot AIR rises, but convection works in all directions including down. Plus, no set back on in floor. He said he has never seen a situation where the in floor used less gas than conventional heating. Just passing that along. If I were going to be in the shop every day for most of the day, in floor might be the way for me. That just isn't my reality.
And that's my question as well. I'm planning my 26x38 garage + hobby shop in Alaska and can't decide between infloor or 2 hanging heaters (the garage will be separated by a wall from the shop). But I too am concerned about the heat getting sucked down, especially since we have winter that lasts 7+ months.
Dragster Racer
Well-known member
I can't speak from experience..only what others with experiece have told me and science. Heat can be lost either by convection or conduction. Conduction is the trouble in the ground, and that radiates in all directions, not just up. I will say that conductive heat losses are easier to reduce by insulation, thus the 2" of insulation under most in floor setups. When I hear of folks trying to get started with small heaters, and it runs and runs and runns and never catches up.....and the solution is to go with a higher btu boiler....well, that scares me a bit. It shouldn't take forever to heat the concrete unless the room above it is also stone cold. And if it takes that many btu's to run an in-floor setup, then naturally it will use a lot of fuel. Maybe reality and real world use is different. And I understand the the comfort is a big plus. I'm just frugal. I have the tube in my basement and attatched garage, but will probably only use them if I get a wood fired boiler.