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abstamaria

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Now I can have several working copies of my favorite tools. If this has been posted before, my apologies, but I just discovered this now. This will drive Snap-On, Proto, etc., out of business.


Incredible.

Andy
 
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jeffk14

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It has been on here before. I don't think those "printed copies" would be all that strong. I'm thinking that it's some sort of plastic polymer that is used to make the copy. Strong enough for some things, but not "tool strong".
 

strnjss

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This would be great someday if every home could own a 3d printer just as easily as we can own inkjet printers today.

It has the potential to revolutionize the world. Which will be it's downfall unfortunately. No way this will ever be allowed to end up in people's homes with a whole open-source community of items people can print.

Too many billions are riding on our current system of produce, and sell, and make crappy enough to break to resell again.

Unfortunately people will find a way to either stop this, or severely regulate it's usage (like a DRM system or something). I can see the day when people start getting sued for pirating tools and stuff.

But wouldn't it be cool if someday 50 years from now, some Garage Journal reader runs into some issue repairing his/her car or something, posts it here, and someone writes back "Here print this tool [attachment], it'll let you fix that no problem!"
 
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abstamaria

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I thought that video was a well-made spoof, not to be taken seriously, and posted it in that vein. I Googled the subject, however, and there seems some seriousness and truth to it. Massimino is an astronaut and the Z Corporation exists. And apparently they did make that adjustable wrench.
 

flyingblind

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I thought that video was a well-made spoof, not to be taken seriously, and posted it in that vein. I Googled the subject, however, and there seems some seriousness and truth to it. Massimino is an astronaut and the Z Corporation exists. And apparently they did make that adjustable wrench.

Look up Makerbot and RepRap. Plastic printers can be had for less than a 1000 dollars.
The high end Z machines are closer to 60k.
 

williaty

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No way this will ever be allowed to end up in people's homes with a whole open-source community of items people can print.

You mean other than the fact that there's already affordable, off-the-shelf 3D printers available with large and growing libraries of free things to print?
 

diesel research

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This would be great someday if every home could own a 3d printer just as easily as we can own inkjet printers today.

It has the potential to revolutionize the world. Which will be it's downfall unfortunately. No way this will ever be allowed to end up in people's homes with a whole open-source community of items people can print.

Too many billions are riding on our current system of produce, and sell, and make crappy enough to break to resell again.

Unfortunately people will find a way to either stop this, or severely regulate it's usage (like a DRM system or something). I can see the day when people start getting sued for pirating tools and stuff.

But wouldn't it be cool if someday 50 years from now, some Garage Journal reader runs into some issue repairing his/her car or something, posts it here, and someone writes back "Here print this tool [attachment], it'll let you fix that no problem!"


I apologize, but I wish you would reconsider your "conspiracist slant". What I mean is, there are a lot of people who believe the same thing as you, and this lack of faith inhibits growth and innovation.

Enough people say it either can't be done, would be shut down by some black gov't/corp agency, or otherwise inconceivable. Then they talk others out of the idea.

I realize this sounds insulting and don't mean it that way, but have found that a lot of people who share a similar attitude do not have a grasp on what is already out there.

This is NOT so much of a manufacturing machine. It could manufacture some basic goods, but other processes such as injection molding, extrusion, spin casting, etc already exist and are much more suited to manufacturing.

People see an adjustable wrench come out and think they can just pump out all their own goods. Not so fast.

It is a rapid prototyping machine, that's it. Thus allowing an engineer to build a prototype for testing and eventual mold making.

It's a significant step up from my machinist training days. At that point you had basic cnc carving into a wax block. This was handy way to analyze not only physical shape/size of a part but also to analyze your tool programming/paths/speeds etc. You may find a way to trim several minutes off by using a different path with less code, spot errors before destroying an expensive billet/casting, or ensure tolerances.

_______________________

Jay Leno showed one of these used to produce parts for his steam car that had long went out of production.

A friend of mine is a "reverse engineer", mostly for legitimate purposes such as restoring/creating a blueprint of a part that was lost/destroyed/never existed. The scanning technology made things MUCH faster than using vernier calipers and other hand measuring tools. Those too have went down significantly in price, and are trickling into the high end hobbyist workshop.


 

strnjss

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You mean other than the fact that there's already affordable, off-the-shelf 3D printers available with large and growing libraries of free things to print?

Nothing out there is affordable and readily available enough to make strong tools, or even ones with movable parts as far as I know. Not on a "every-household-can-own-one" yet at least.

What I was saying was that someday in the future, it would be cool if they could give us a machine that would let us print our own products that we would normally go out an buy on a much larger scale than the little parts or plastic sculptures of today's machines.

I apologize, but I wish you would reconsider your "conspiracist slant". What I mean is, there are a lot of people who believe the same thing as you, and this lack of faith inhibits growth and innovation.

Enough people say it either can't be done, would be shut down by some black gov't/corp agency, or otherwise inconceivable. Then they talk others out of the idea.

I realize this sounds insulting and don't mean it that way, but have found that a lot of people who share a similar attitude do not have a grasp on what is already out there.

This is NOT so much of a manufacturing machine. It could manufacture some basic goods, but other processes such as injection molding, extrusion, spin casting, etc already exist and are much more suited to manufacturing.

People see an adjustable wrench come out and think they can just pump out all their own goods. Not so fast.

It is a rapid prototyping machine, that's it. Thus allowing an engineer to build a prototype for testing and eventual mold making.

It's a significant step up from my machinist training days. At that point you had basic cnc carving into a wax block. This was handy way to analyze not only physical shape/size of a part but also to analyze your tool programming/paths/speeds etc. You may find a way to trim several minutes off by using a different path with less code, spot errors before destroying an expensive billet/casting, or ensure tolerances.

_______________________

Jay Leno showed one of these used to produce parts for his steam car that had long went out of production.

A friend of mine is a "reverse engineer", mostly for legitimate purposes such as restoring/creating a blueprint of a part that was lost/destroyed/never existed. The scanning technology made things MUCH faster than using vernier calipers and other hand measuring tools. Those too have went down significantly in price, and are trickling into the high end hobbyist workshop.



Oh I know this is far from something that's going to revolutionize the world. Right now, all it is, is like you said, something to just make a prototype, or model of something, or maybe a small part. But this technology has been rapidly developing lately. There are companies out there that use CNC machines to cut out parts, and companies like this one, who do the same with plastics.

There are companies like Shapeways that will 'print' you objects you send them for a fee out of all kinds of materials. As we saw in a previous post here on Garage Journal, some guy just modeled some part he needed that the company wanted way too much money for and had it printed instead.

It's only a matter of time before this technology becomes affordable enough that hypothetically anyone could just buy one for themselves as if it were an inkjet printer.

It is also conceivable that as the technology evolves, it will be able to create more and more complex objects.

And well down the road, there is no reason we won't all be able to start printing all kinds of stuff, out of all kinds of materials. Maybe machines of the future could even heat treat the items it creates.

I see problems arising in a similar way to how they have arisen in the music industry for example. As soon as computers and the internet became mainstream and usable by most of the public, people started using their computers to share music with each other on a scale that basically made the music industry **** themselves!

They saw it as a threat to their existence, and responded by trying to sue everyone like crazy. They weren't prepared for such a change in their world where their 'product' could be had by anyone without them getting paid for it.

When they finally started to join the game instead of fight it (selling music legally through services like iTunes), they have tried like crazy to control every aspect of how the file is used through DRM.

They have even somehow got companies like Microsoft and computer manufacturers to work with them, severely limiting the way our own property works!

Did you know on many new Dell laptops for example, they have physically disabled the ability to "record from wave"? It used to be, you could record any sound coming out of your speakers directly from your sound card.

Despite all of the legal uses this had, from editing video, and audio, to just recording a Skype conversation, all they saw was that some kid could record his or her favorite song onto their computer (God forbid!)

Microsoft has also built in all kinds of deterrents and DRM into their Vista and 7 OS's.

Comcast has been caught slowing down users who use BitTorrent, even though it also has plenty of legal uses.

So you can see what the response was from multiple companies when a 'product' was being "stolen". Even with no actual product being stolen, they saw each 'copy' as money lost on their part.

So you can imagine what the response might be from say, Snap-On if someone were to scan one of their ratchets and upload it for free on the internet, and mechanics all just print their own.

Do they own that 'image' of their ratchet? It's the machine that's producing it, but I'm willing to bet they would see it as a 'lost sale' like the music industry does.

And legal or not, it will lead to regulation, and limitation, etc.

But instead of just being a few companies with a vested interest, like what happened with music, this would involve just about every mass producing company out there.

When people can hypothetically in the future print their own products, there will be a lot of fighting, suing, and regulation going on.

If the companies do see this as a threat before hand they may even take steps to prevent private ownership or regulate the use of these machines with their high priced lawyers.

But this is all hypothetical, I'm well aware, we're not even close to at the point where any of this is going to happen anytime soon.

I just see it as both something awesome to look forward to, but also something that's going to cause a lot of problems too.
 
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diesel research

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I can already build a backyard charcoal/waste oil/propane "forge" and pour my own tools.

I can "photocopy" them with plaster, wax, sand, or numerous other materials. All for very cheap, and w/o much in line of exotic materials.

I can hammer forge said parts, heat treat in motor oil, etc. There are plenty of reasons I do not.

The old push mower blade or leaf spring is easily hammered into a quality tool.
__________________________

Manufacturing in the physical world and the software world have always been completely different beasts.

(copyrights and patents are much different)
 

jeffmoss26

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We have a 3D printer here where I work (linear motion products mfr)
They use it for modeling products for customers and doing prototypes. It's VERY cool.
 

padronanniversary

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The price has gone down considerably. I would imagine an era eventually like replicators in star trek.

The consumables are still a little high. The lower end ones cannot do fine pitch parts though, the detail is not there.
 

diesel research

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But I dont see the point in replicating obsolete parts, If they just come out in plastic and you still need them built at a machine shop. why dont they just copy the original part at the machine shop??
it may be much easier to test fit the plastic part as opposed to milling out the replacement, only to find out you are a few thousandths too short.

A real kick in the nuts if the material is exotic or requires extensive time to machine.
 

mrholeshot

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Didn't read all the replies but Jay Leno has one of these machines in his garage. He's had it for 3-4 years. Incredible
 

91bronc300

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So you can print the screw mechanism in an adjustable wrench. Can you print the screw mechanism in a micrometer? THAT would be impressive.
 

mdbeck1

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There was an "additional video" on the original thread. They tell you about making the helix that is used to control the crescent wrench movement. Go take a look...
 
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williaty

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So, the plot thickens. It was mentioned earlier that this technology was going to be rather disruptive and sort of piss off people with money, power, or both. Well, guess what, it's doing it right now...

There are now freely downloadable models of a more-than-10-round clip for an AR-15 as well as a complete lower receiver for an AR-15. For those of you that don't know (I bet most of you do though), you can mail order, or just walk into a store and buy, all of the parts of an AR-15 except for the lower receiver without getting the government up your ***. To manufacture the lower receiver, you have to be licensed by the feds. The sell the lower receiver, you have to be licensed by the feds. To buy a lower receiver, you have to be licensed by the feds. Producing one at home on your 3D printer is a big time Federal pound-me-in-the-***-prison felony. The big deal here is that an end-user can buy as many of the other parts of an AR-15 as they feel like and then print up as many lower receivers as they feel like and end up with an arsenal of AR-15s that never had to go through the federal licensing procedure, background check, etc.

I have to imagine that everyone employed by BATF just felt their ******* bunch up.
 

mdbeck1

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This is a very interesting technology and I'm glad to see it. A lot of industries will be scared of it for a long time.

For now I see the capability to create the wrench however the time to create the 3D Model, purchase the materials, and equipment as WAY beyond the price it would cost to just go buy the wrench.

On my end I see a way to finally get that tail light assembly to my 1959 El Camino as well as many other parts that end up breaking on SWMBFAO's Prius. All of those little plastic parts that just push in a hole and you can never get them out when you need to change the headlight. You also can't buy them for a reasonable price. Other applications I see are for small things I believe that I need around the house. That stupid bracket that holds the shelf up on my deep freeze. They are no longer available and when you DO find them they are cracked.

Of course any technology can and will be abused. Like someone mentioned earlier... this is going to change a lot of things. I would guess that the machines will end up with a licensing charge or the media to create the parts will be expensive due to a "fee" that would help pay the licensing. ...and I forseee government regulation to keep us from making AR-15 lowers (M-60 lowers, ...). You can actually make that stuff today in a machine shop with the right tools but you can't get a machinist to make it because it's illegal.

...and I'll still buy a lot of my tools because I don't trust the "printer" to make a 1-3/8" socket and breakover to tighten the crankshaft pulley on my jeep. Maybe in a few years when it starts making stuff out of carbon fiber (?).
 

woody 73

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Just incredible what can be done! I keep breaking a plastic piece in my freezer and it would be great to make a new part, (the new parts cost an arm and leg).
 

ctdutro

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Some prototype engines also use rapid prototyping for the engine block. At my college we have a mahle 3 cylinder engine for one of our old FSAE cars that has the block, head, valve cover, coil cover, and oil pan done this way
 

Diesel-Mech

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So, the plot thickens. It was mentioned earlier that this technology was going to be rather disruptive and sort of piss off people with money, power, or both. Well, guess what, it's doing it right now...

There are now freely downloadable models of a more-than-10-round clip for an AR-15 as well as a complete lower receiver for an AR-15. For those of you that don't know (I bet most of you do though), you can mail order, or just walk into a store and buy, all of the parts of an AR-15 except for the lower receiver without getting the government up your ***. To manufacture the lower receiver, you have to be licensed by the feds. The sell the lower receiver, you have to be licensed by the feds. To buy a lower receiver, you have to be licensed by the feds. Producing one at home on your 3D printer is a big time Federal pound-me-in-the-***-prison felony. The big deal here is that an end-user can buy as many of the other parts of an AR-15 as they feel like and then print up as many lower receivers as they feel like and end up with an arsenal of AR-15s that never had to go through the federal licensing procedure, background check, etc.

I have to imagine that everyone employed by BATF just felt their ******* bunch up.

You could not be more wrong. Anyone that can legally own a firearm is legally allowed to make their own receiver so long as it is for their own use.
 

williaty

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You could not be more wrong. Anyone that can legally own a firearm is legally allowed to make their own receiver so long as it is for their own use.

I am not a gun-law expert but both wiki and a couple of lawyers discussing this in an article about it disagree with you.
 

Diesel-Mech

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I am not a gun-law expert but both wiki and a couple of lawyers discussing this in an article about it disagree with you.

The BATFE agrees with me.

Q: Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle?

With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machine gun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a Federal or State agency.

[18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/general.html#gca-manufacturing
 

williaty

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OK, I see at least two clauses in that which could be where the lawyers are basing their opinion. First of all, there's a chance it's part of the "certain exceptions" mentioned in the first paragraph. Second, production of a NFA firearm, which in legal terms the lower receiver of an AR-15 is, requires tax and approval by ATF.
 

speed bump

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I am not a gun-law expert but both wiki and a couple of lawyers discussing this in an article about it disagree with you.

Having built from scratch a couple of AR lowers I can safely say you have no Clue what you are talking about.

Of course AR lowers are a ***** to machine so why not just buy a completely legal 80% receiver from KT ordinance and easily finish it yourself?
 

Az Scooter

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And then the guy uses the crescent wrench wrong...

A very cool technology. I was impressed.
 

BrokewrenchLS1

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OK, I see at least two clauses in that which could be where the lawyers are basing their opinion. First of all, there's a chance it's part of the "certain exceptions" mentioned in the first paragraph. Second, production of a NFA firearm, which in legal terms the lower receiver of an AR-15 is, requires tax and approval by ATF.

AR-15 lowers aren't NFA items.

As far as "anyone" being able to use one of these to make anything, good luck with tolerances. It's not too hard to make a screwdriver; try making something that requires something like a press-fit tolerance, and I doubt the average guy is going to have half a clue as to how to create the dxf (or whatever type of file this machine uses) for the part.
 

Diesel-Mech

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OK, I see at least two clauses in that which could be where the lawyers are basing their opinion. First of all, there's a chance it's part of the "certain exceptions" mentioned in the first paragraph. Second, production of a NFA firearm, which in legal terms the lower receiver of an AR-15 is, requires tax and approval by ATF.
An AR lower does not become an NFA firearm unless it is built into an MG or SBR. Many people do make their own AR lowers legally including myself and others on this very site. You are wrong and so is the source of your information.
 

williaty

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/me shrugs

I'm not a lawyer. Therefore, I'll take the lawyer's word for it over the word or some kinda rude guy on the internet.
 

greybeard

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I am blown away by this, didn't know it was around at all. Thank you so much.

Can I get one at Harbor Freight yet? LOL
 

BrokewrenchLS1

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/me shrugs

I'm not a lawyer. Therefore, I'll take the lawyer's word for it over the word or some kinda rude guy on the internet.

Do yourself a favor and look up what constitutes an NFA item. An AR-15 lower does not. If it did, I'd need a tax stamp and ATF authorization for the AR-15 I have sitting right next to my desk.

An AR-15 with a total barrel length of less than 16" (length including permanently-attached flash shroud), a selectable full-auto weapon, and suppressors are all NFA-required items.
 

six-T-seven

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OK, I see at least two clauses in that which could be where the lawyers are basing their opinion. First of all, there's a chance it's part of the "certain exceptions" mentioned in the first paragraph. Second, production of a NFA firearm, which in legal terms the lower receiver of an AR-15 is, requires tax and approval by ATF.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
~ Abraham Lincoln
 
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williaty

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I think I've repeatedly made it clear that these aren't my opinions, they're just things I'm repeating from people who claim to do this for a living. I think it's great that people are making their own and will be able to print their own. I personally think the Constitution is pretty clear on that being an ok thing to do and I'm a BIG believer in exercising Constitutional rights in order to ensure their preservation. I'm one of the guys who thinks all gun control laws are un-Constitutional. Which is why I support the repeal of the 2nd Amendment.
 
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