Installing wooden stair treads/risers

[ybnormal]

Doing some house remodeling in anticipation of a sale in the next 2 years. Fixing a lot of stuff that hasn't been touched in the 29 yrs we've been here in a 40yr old house. One of the things we are doing is finally ripping the old carpet off the stairs and we replacing with wooden treads and risers. Being the smart GJer I am, I looked for some relevant threads here but only found two that were partially relevant.

Wood Stair Treads Loose/Splitting

Just bought a house and after we moved in noticed that the wood stairs have a couple problems. The floors appear to be cherry, but I also noticed that a couple of the treads were oak. I've now realized what's happened. The cherry stairs have split at the glue joint and the nose eventually...

www.garagejournal.com

32’x64’ pole barn shop

I’ve got a lot of great ideas off here and thought I should pay it forward, and if no one is interested at least I’ll have it documented for myself. Like stated the building is 32’x64‘ with 16’ wall height, also a 12x40 lean too. Main building is 4/12 pitch, lean too is 3/12. I hired a pole barn...

www.garagejournal.com

I've already priced out the project versus just re-carpeting the stairs and the cost difference is negligible. Further, the project fits in with the character of the house as all the houses in my neighborhood were built with custom stained woodwork (not painted). Living room with 9.5ft ceiling has custom oak paneling, office has floor to ceiling built in lower cabinetry and bookshelves. Upper and lower stair landings have wood balusters and railings that all match, along with matching baseboard trim. The new treads/risers will also be stained to match the woodwork we have.


Looking for some advice on several aspects of this project, such as good companies to source quality product from, what materials to use (wood, carpet runners, stair rods), how to install (glue, nail, screw, dowels?), etc, as well as what NOT to do. What we are not looking for is someone to convince me otherwise and just reinstall carpet.
I know we have some skilled craftsman on this site who can advise (@larry4406), as well as people who may have actually done a project like this (@jessew ) and can impart some "Lessons Learned".

fyi, I have no understair access and there are walls on both sides up/down the length of the stairs.

So let's hear it folks, and Thanks in advance for your contribution.

 

[cretedog]

If you're planning on an upcoming sale, I would advise recarpeting the existing stairs. To do it and do it right is alot of work. No way it would be comparable in price to recarpeting in my mind. And you aren't planning on staying to enjoy the result...

 

[jar944]

What is the current flooring other than the stairs?

Cut or housed stringers?

 

[The Cobbler]

most likely the treads are rabbited in to the stringers from the back side, so removing them is not an option.
You will have to go over top. I know you can but premade tread/nosing caps that you cut to fit and nail in place .
Personally for the sale of a property , I would probably install some glue down LVP ( since you're adamant no carpet!)

 

[cgrutt]

You can buy tread caps and risers. Here are a couple projects I did the stairs were unfinished builder grade pine.

Garage In progress (treads are capped with risers installed)



After



Basement stairs (partial) Before



After

 

[hefnerconstructionlc]

Just doing a project this week. Cut off nosing. Then fit riser, then tread, and then returns.

 

[ybnormal]

If you're planning on an upcoming sale, I would advise recarpeting the existing stairs. To do it and do it right is alot of work. No way it would be comparable in price to recarpeting in my mind. And you aren't planning on staying to enjoy the result...

doesn't matter that I'm not staying. as stated, I've already done price comparison, it's negligible. I'm paying someone to do the work so it will be done right. and the PERCEIVED value from nice custom woodwork will easily justify our asking price to the right buyer.

What is the current flooring other than the stairs?

Cut or housed stringers?

unknown. won't find out until we remove the carpet

most likely the treads are rabbited in to the stringers from the back side, so removing them is not an option.
You will have to go over top. I know you can but premade tread/nosing caps that you cut to fit and nail in place .
Personally for the sale of a property , I would probably install some glue down LVP ( since you're adamant no carpet!)

there is a small access door (cupboard door sized) thru the back of the front door coat closet. never been thru it, but opened it once to look inside. nothing but bare concrete, nothing stored there. too much **** piled in the closet to open it right now.

 

[Joemctag]

I have done an awful lot of stair-building. Consider that it’s desirable ( and actually code ) that your riser heights ( top of tread-to-top-of-tread ) and tread depths be close to equal for the whole stair. Like within 3/8”. Adding wood on top of all your treads will increase the bottom riser height. Also, what will they do at the top of the stair? Build up the whole floor another tread thickness? You don’t HAVE to follow the code, but it gives you a safer stair. Just stuff for your guy to be considering. Good luck! I’m sure it’ll look great!

 

[jar944]

I've already done price comparison, it's negligible. I'm paying someone to do the work so it will be done right. and the PERCEIVED value from nice custom woodwork will easily justify our asking price to the right buyer.

unknown. won't find out until we remove the carpet

I had wood tread stairs, I wouldn't do that again unless there was a carpet/runner (which is my current setup)

Treads/risers on cut stringers can be "relatively" easily replaced.

Treads/risers on Housed stringers can't easily be replaced so you have limited options, none of which are very good (imho). That was why I was asking what the flooring is currently, if you are all carpet and changing everything over at once to hardwood you might be ok. If it's already hardwood flooring everywhere, just capping the treads makes a tall first step and a short last step (bottom up).

If you can get to the back of the stairs it possible to knock out the wedges on a housed stair stringer and replace the treads and risers, but you need a stairbuilder/millwork shop that knows what they are doing. It's the only way to maintain a consistent rise if the starting flooring (1st floor) and ending flooring (2nd floor) are not also changed the same amount.

 

[cgrutt]

I have done an awful lot of stair-building. Consider that it’s desirable ( and actually code ) that your riser heights ( top of tread-to-top-of-tread ) and tread depths be close to equal for the whole stair. Like within 3/8”. Adding wood on top of all your treads will increase the bottom riser height. Also, what will they do at the top of the stair? Build up the whole floor another tread thickness? You don’t HAVE to follow the code, but it gives you a safer stair. Just stuff for your guy to be considering. Good luck! I’m sure it’ll look great!

The retrofit kits generally don't have a full 3/4 thickness tread they're typically 3/8 to 5/8. Vinyl is even less. Nothing changes relatively from original build except top and bottom and possibly any landings and the perceived differences are pretty minor. In this case OP is removing carpeting and likely padding which will at least partially offset any increases. If he leaves (or replaces) carpeting in place or adds a different flooring the whole concern may be moot. Of course everything depends on how the original stairs were built to begin with only way to be certain is to measure them.

 

[ybnormal]

existing wood trim on stairs will be cleaned and polished. looks bad because it is 40 yrs old.
risers appear to be particle board. will find out more when we rip the carpet off.

living room custom woodwork shown for reference. going to be stripping popcorn ceiling and re-finishing the hardwood floors.

 

[larry4406]

I have not done this but have looked into it.

The tread overlay method changes the rise height as many have posted. The first rise at the bottom increases while the top rise at the landing decreases. Code will allow a max variance of 3/8" within the flight. The bottom gain equals the top loss, so look for overlays that are less than 3/8" thick and you should be ok.

At the day job, our stairs are prefabricated. The stringers are routed out to receive treads and risers that are inserted from the back and wood wedges with glue are applied to lock them into position. Usually screws are driven thru the stringer into the tread to pull everything tight. Our stringers are 5/4 stock (net 1"). The treads "pocket" into the stringers about 3/8" per side. Below is backside photo of a pine basement stair. You can see how the riser is screwed to the tread at the bottom


Occasionally we have trade damage and a tread needs to be replaced. He hire the stair company for this. With a finished home, they saw cut the tread from the finished side using a multi-tool flush with the stringer. Then they pry out the middle section which gives access to the ends. Choice words, chisels, banging noises, and prying allows the removal of the pocketed end sections.

The length of the original tread was the inside width of the stringers plus the insertion depth of 2 rabbets. The cut the length of the replacement tread but include only 1 rabbet depth. A test fit is done by inserting the stringer in one pocket fully (tread tilted for insertion then lowered) and tread then slide 1/2 pocket depth to engage other stringer. Once a good fit is obtained, the tread is fully sanded making it ready for stain, copious amounts of wood glue are installed in the pockets, and the tread is then inserted final.

Our vendors will only replace up to 3 adjacent treads this way. Beyond that, they recommend replacement of the stair.

 

[hefnerconstructionlc]

Here's a follow up on the stairs. We just completed this basement remodel. Came out really nice. And as said above the retrofit stair treads are 5/8 solid oak thick. So prior to installing the treads you can screw the existing stair treads down make them nice and tight. And then glue and nail your new treads down. It will take much of the squeak out of the stairs and make them really stiff and nice. They're pretty slick. But yes you do have to accommodate for a slight changing elevation. But since you have carpet and pad. I doubt you will have much change at all actually.

 

[duneslider]

I have done tons of these retrofits. The thickness of the hardwood is pretty much the same as what the carpet and pad is on the stairs now, so you really don't end up with an out of code stair. But this guy already lives in a 40yr old house that has stairs that aren't even close to today's code anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if they are an 8" rise and 9" run. In my area in the 80's they would even let residential go 9x9, I didn't see that a lot but did see it.

I would use the stair parts that are just 3/4" for the treads with a thicker nosing (that is what cgrutt posted above) Those are easy to install and look great. For the risers you can do it the less expensive painted boards or get matching riser material, whatever flavor you want will work fine.

When I did these we would cut off the nosing of whatever was on the stairs currently, then start at the bottom and put your riser on flush with the top of the step, then add the tread, continue this up the stairs. We always glued and nailed the treads on, I prefer a full spread hardwood glue. Make sure to take care of any squeaks on the stairs before putting the new treads and risers on.

 

[Kaizen]

OP you are underderestimating the time of install on wood. Each of those risers and treads needs to be cut percisely and that takes a lot of time. Actually easier if there is wood on both sides so you don't mar up the drywall.
Tom silva did one before that comes to mind. Probably ask this old house. It was just like 5 stairs but he shows what is needed.
Definitley carpet imo

 

[hefnerconstructionlc]

Yeah to do the stairs I posted above. I have the following amount of time applied below. Keep in mind I am a professional builder and I have all the tools, doo dads, and a shop set up. So not my first rodeo and it still took me a fair amount of time.

A full 8 hours to stain and finish and recoat and finish again the stair and risers ahead of time.

A half a day so 4 hours to prep the old stairs by cutting the returns off.

Two full days to cut and fit the stairs and treads. This also includes wood filling and touch staining.

Then my employee had another full half day so 4 hours of masking and taping to make the edges look nice.

That does not include the time to remove the handrails and install the new ones.

So realistically we had 36 man hours into this project. And we do this thing pretty often.

This isn't too dissuade you in either direction. If you feel comfortable go for it. If you don't maybe carpets the way to go. But if you do proceed. I would kind of plan on a full week of work.

 

[duneslider]

hefnerconstructionlc's time sounds accurate. We typically were doing the stairs with a floor so we didn't stain and finish ahead of time but we would sand them before install. We would just add the staining/finishing in while we stained and finished the floors.

I do look at real wood as a Lifetime product though. Taken care of, the stairs will last as long as the house. Carpet won't last as long as the house...