IR model t30 H242x3

[Ice cold]

Just got a 5hp 3 phase air compressor and am converting to 1 phase. I was told this compressor was running when removed.

Can not find any data on my specific model the "H" and the "x3" are unknown to me and a internet search turns up nothing. Anyone have a manual with the specs or know where to get one?

ordered motor 1 ph 5 hp same rpm.

need different mag starter. came with square D 8536SCO3H30S. from what i have gathered it will not work with a 1 phase. It is electronic type with pass through for the wires going to motor and does not have "heaters". Thinking of getting Elimia brand but ....

calculated sheave sizes and it is turning pump at about 1000 rpm. Is this correct speed?

Also I'm concerned about an unload valve and check valve. The tube from high press. head looks like it does not have any check valve or unload valve. there is a Kunkle valve #348 on the low press. side before it goes into the intercooler prior to entering high press. head. Could this be an unloader?

Pressure switch uses 120V so I will have to run neutral wire to starter which is not a problem. Question is... can I just tap into one of the 240V legs and add a fuse to get my 120v for the pressure switch. do the starters come with different coils i.e. 120v or 240v? When ordering will I have to specify? Not real sure about all this..... Wish I could see a wiring diagram for the starter I will be getting.

Thanks to all. very informative forum I love lurking on internet forums the knowledge is amazing. Like a coffee shop discussion on whatever you want to talk about.

Ice

 

[Ice cold]

yes I'm a new guy. "Almost ignorant of all trades"

Ice

 

[Ice cold]

some pics may help

 

[Ice cold]

Nobody??? specs for this model? i can't find anything

Ice

 

[scw1991]

if you do a web search, look up IR Model 242. The Type 30 refers to type of pump design. The Model 2475 superseded the 242. You can still buy parts for the Model 242 through ecompressedair.com and various other sites.

Compressor puts out about 16.5 CFM @ 175 RPM and uses a 1725 RPM 5HP motor. Pump spins at about 1000 RPM. You can download the owners manual/parts list for the Model 2475 to accurately depict the correct piping arrangement with safety blow-off valve locations.

There are 3 safety valves on this compressor. One is on the low pressure side of the pump. One is on the discharge high pressure side. One is on the tank.

With respect to motor starters, the Square D 8536 or 8911 starter is suitable. The starter must be sized for correct amperage rating of the motor. A 3ph motor starter will not be the same size as a 1ph motor starter as a 3ph motor draws less current per leg than a 1ph motor.

The mag starter you have is a NEMA Size 1 which is suitable for a 3ph 5HP motor. But, you'd need a NEMA Size 1P (model 8536SCG2) which is suitable for a 1ph 5HP motor. The other more economical option is to use a Square D 8911DPSG32 definite purpose mag motor starter with thermal overload protection.

The 8536 starter incorporates auxiliary contacts for use with push button controls to start/stop machinery. The 8911 starter does not have auxiliary contacts as it is considered a "definite purpose" starter.

Both the 8536 and 8911 starters use thermal overload heater(s). A 3ph motor starter requires 3 heaters while the 1ph motor starter will only require 1 heater.

Both the 8536 and the 8911 can use either a 120v or 240v coil. For a 230v/1ph air compressor system, it is easier to purchase the starter with a 240v coil. As you've stated, a 120v coil can be used but requires power from an external source.

http://www.primeaircompressor.com/ingersoll-rand-type-30-two-stage-air-compressors.htm

 

[Ice cold]

Thank you 1991! for taking the time to respond to all the questions. Your post gives me a lot more to look into. I am getting familiarized with all the lingo and am just starting to get a grip on all the starters out there. The IEC starters look like they may work and there are a few of them on the sales sites. Elimia is one and there are others. Any thoughts on these types of starters?????

the 8911 is also an economical way to go. I like the square D in that parts and knowledge are close by. I want to try to keep costs down so I was considering the Elimia in that it has over load protection and an on/off switch. I dont mind buying the thermal unit but will I need to buy another enclosure for on/off. this seems like a dumb question...... I would like to have it all in one and combing the internet for options.

thanks for the pump specs et al, it really helps with the build.

Not getting into this cheap but I sold the 3ph motor and controller for $200 today (I'm sure he was happy). I'll be into a 60 gallon two stage IR T30 for about $1100. A lot of cabbage but up here shipping kills us. Same unit new would cost $2500plus, so I'll be happy.

Ice

 

[Ice cold]

disregard the switch question

Ice

 

[scw1991]

I'm not familiar with Elimia but I did a search on their website and wasn't too impressed as I was unable to find any technical documents. I don't think this Elimia starter would be quite as robust as a Square D. I used to buy the Square D 8911 on Ebay for $100 5years ago. Looks like you can purchase through Amazon for $120 with free S&H, which in my opinion is still one hell of a deal.

As stated above, you'd want to get a starter with a 240v coil which gets wired into the pressure switch. There are quite a few youtube videos out there as well to assist in wiring up mag starters in air compressor systems.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004PHB5U8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Ice cold]

I himmed and hawwed about square D vs Elimia and went with Elimia. I was initially going to get the 8911 but liked the switch on the Elimia box. It is a nice package but the verdict will come after I get it hooked up. I couldn't find any negative comments on them so I'm going to give it a try.

I'm going to go from high pressure head thru black pipe to intermediate 10 gallon tank then back to large tank. Hopefully the intermediate tank will allow most of the vapor to condense out before going into the big tank. As of now no aftercooler. L copper after a Whole system filter. ***** what are you guys using for a whole system filter? Should I get a coalescing filter? ***** I'm planning on a removable vapor/oil combo at point of use. ***** Lots of options looking for suggestions on how I should set up the filtration on my system. thanks

Ice

 

[scw1991]

I think you're over-thinking this at bit . First, you have to determine your intent on using this compressor. Is this compressor going into a home workshop or a commercial environment? What kind of air tools are you planning to run?

If you run your piping correctly from the tank, you should be ok with respect to removing moisture. A good example by following link below.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how...ing-hard-lines-compressor-170645.html;504;370

Because this compressor will pressurize tank to 175 psi, you'll need a good quality regulator rated for at minimum 200 psi inlet pressure to drop line pressure down to about 100 psi as this is what most air tools operate at. I would suggest Wilkerson or Parker brand regulators.

 

[Ice cold]

I over think everything. I"m german. trying to sift through all the fluff out there in e-land really *****. in the good old days you went to the hardware store and got what you needed....done. Now there are too many choices. OK I'm done complaining.

Ok this thing will not see very much heavy duty use. Occasionally i do a project that will require heavy use with blasting. Painting is part of the equation so I want good filtration. Wilkerson seems like a great brand so i'm going with them. But..... they only make about a thousand versions. which one ? coalescing? oil and water? particulate? all three, combination......choices trying to keep costs down too, but want a quality part.

Thanks for the link but it opens a google search. I'm about googled out. I think these forums are great for discussions so thanks for your reply and info. still looking for that filter if there are solutions out there for less than $300.

I will take a look at that link thanks

Ice

 

[scw1991]

I hear ya! For stuff like Wilkerson, I typically go straight to their website and download the product manuals, etc. Another nice thing to have in your back pocket is a lot of reference material like a Grainger or McMaster Carr catalog. I don't purchase stuff from Grainger because the prices are out of sight, but it's a good reference catalog because they list the manufacturer's part numbers. Once I nail down a part number, then I start doing Google searches to find the best price.

A good start would be the Wilkerson regulator/filter is the C18-03-FLGO suitable for a 175 psi tank. You are removing large particulates out of the line with the filter and you are also regulating line pressure to about 100 psi with the regulator.

Do you need a oil lubricator.....probably not since you're not operating air tools in a production environment. All you need to do is put a few drops of air tool oil in your impact gun or whatever each time you use it. Now, if you're using a DA sander for hours on end, then I'd invest in an oil lubricator run off of a separate dedicated air line.

Do you need a coalescing filter or air dryer......probably not since your not operating spray gun in a production environment. You can purchase disposable filters that get installed right at the spray gun. If you're painting a car, then I'd look into purchasing some specialized filters, etc.

Please post some pics of the Elimia mag starter. I'm curios to see what they're built like.

 

[Ice cold]

Bingo I knew if waited i'd get an intelligent answer. I like your philosophy.... knowing part numbers is half the battle. think i'll get me a catalog or two.

Thanks for the pic. I am going with Wilkerson but I don't need an oiler as you say. the model you suggested has an oiler. I"m thinking I need a water/particulate setup at the start of the distribution pipes. BTW i'm using copper piping.

I will have a short run to first station. Should I mess with lengthening the supply pipe for cooling??? I see a lot of guys doing it..

thanks

Ice

 

[Ice cold]

yah I'll post some pics of that starter..

Ice

 

[scw1991]

oops.... my mistake, you are right. The Wilkerson "piggyback" style filter/regulator is part number B18-03FL00.

In my opinion, there will be plenty of cooling if you run 1/2" copper lines similar to what is shown in the diagram. Make note of the flexible hose from compressor tank to line running up the wall. If you try to hard pipe the lines from the tank to the lines on the wall, you'll induce a lot of stress into the lines due to vibration from the compressor. You can purchase these short rubber lines from Harbor Freight pretty cheap and use a standard NPT pipe union to make assembly much easier.

 

[Ice cold]

thanks I'll check it out. I was thinking of going 3/4" fittings out of the compressor. Is half inch big enough to run a blaster?

I should have the starter by the end of the week......

Ice

 

[Ice cold]

said I'd post some pics of the Elimia motor starter.

 

[scw1991]

thanks for posting the starter pics. I can't see the wiring schematic in detail as shown on the inside lid, but for an air compressor system, the on/off switch located on the lid would not be used as the pressure switch electrical contacts would serve the function of starting/stopping the compressor by energizing the starter coil. However, the lid mounted switch could serve as an over-ride if for some reason you needed to immediately turn off the compressor in an emergency situation. The only down side to using this switch is that the unloader valve on the pressure switch will not function. The unloader valve only "activates" once the pressure switch cuts out.

Also, for this style of T30 compressor, you'll need a pressure switch that incorporates an unloader valve. Once the compressor cuts out (shuts off), this unloader valve bleeds off the compressed air trapped inside of compressor discharge piping. If you don't bleed off this trapped air, the next time the compressor starts up, it will put a tremendous load on the motor trying to overcome it. Reason I bring this to your attention is because I do not see any 1/8" copper tubing present running from the compressor discharge piping (above the check valve) to an unloader valve.

To answer your question above, yes, 1/2" piping/copper tubing is more than adequate for your application.

http://manualarchive.ingersollrandp...ressors/Reciprocating Compressor/22400394.PDF

 

[Ice cold]

check out this diagram... I thought the rotary switch would be an on/off power switch that would make the pressure switch "live" to start the compressor. That is what the diagram suggests to me.

As far as the pressure switch with unloader valve..... This compressor was removed from a local utilities plant in a running condition. It was plumbed the way you see it. I assumed the check valves in the hi head to tank kept the tank pressure in tank and safety valve prior to intercooler provided pressure relief after the pump turns off. This was one of my previous questions.

thanks
Ice

 

[scw1991]

There is a safety valve on the low side cylinder head discharge tubing feeding into the high side cylinder head intake. This valve is there to keep the compressor from self destructing in the event the high side intake becomes blocked.

Likewise, there is another safety valve on the high side cylinder head discharge tubing feeding into the tank mounted check valve. Your compressor does not have one and it should.

Who knows in what type of application this compressor was being used in at the utility plant. Based on the lack of pressure switch and safety valves, I'd say this compressor was NOT used to pressurize an air tank, but rather run continuously 24/7 to provide a steady flow of pressurized air to some other system.

The rotary on/off switch would not be used on the mag motor starter. It would simply be left in the On position. The mag starter coil gets wired into the pressure switch to start/stop the motor.

You must have a pressure switch that incorporates an unloader valve to bleed off compressor high side discharge pressure once tank is pressurized. Also, you must have the necessary safety valves in place.

My suggestion is to check out a similar 2-stage air compressor system at Home Depot, Northern Tool, etc and see how they're plumbed and take lots of pictures along the way. This will give you a better understanding of how a properly designed air compressor system works along with all the incorporated safety features.

 

[Ice cold]

OK I'll check it out.

How can a system be remote wired? Say, I have the compressor in the shed outside of my shop and airlines plumbed in. If I want to turn compressor off each day, would I have to go to shed and turn off with the pressure switch manual lever? Or is it possible to remote wire a on/off switch? thanks

Ice

 

[scw1991]

yes, you could remote wire but it depends where you want to mount the mag motor starter. If you mount the mag starter inside of the shop, then you'll need to run 2 power lines out to the motor, 2 power lines out to the pressure switch, and a ground wire.

As I've stated above, this type of T30 compressor is not suited to be turned on/off at any given time as it does not incorporate an integral unloader valve. For compressors that do not incorporate this feature, the unloader valve must be integral to the pressure switch. Two things happen simultaneously when your tank reaches desired cut out pressure of approximately 175 psi. The pressure switch electrical contacts open, thus power is cut to the motor starter coil, and motor shuts down. Also, the pressure switch unloader valve depresses and allows high side pressure at the compressor to bleed off.

You can purchase a pressure switch that incorporates an unloader valve with a manual lever to turn off the compressor and and also depress the unloader valve to bleed off pressure. The downside is that you'd still need to go out to the compressor to manually flip the lever.

 

[Ice cold]

just came from a Local hardware store looking at a big 2475 compressor. took some pics of the pressure switch and starter box. At first glance I did notice the OFF/AUTO selector switch. I'm starting to understand the theory behind the pressure switch and the auto unloader. Just turning the Compressor off while it is running would leave a load in the output tube between the hi press. head and the tank, thus creating a loaded subsequent start. Not a good thing.

Thanks for the education I see now my error with the remote mount. However, this setup appears to do what I want to do. SEE PICS.

I want an OFF/AUTO remote switch (the one on my starter) that will actuate the unloader valve If I happen to turn off the compressor while it is running. I could just get a press. switch with an auto unloader (plumb accordingly) and WAIT until the pressure switch turns off the compressor then turn the switch to OFF. That would unload the supply tube. However there must be a switch that will unload if the operator turns off the compressor while it is running.

At first glance this one appears to do just that. There is no lever on the pressure switch, only the OFF/AUTO switch on the mag starter. Am I missing something? There is a pretty large wire going into the switch..... couldn't see a logo on the switch and have been trying to find one in the bowels of the internet. Sorry did not get pic of mag starter but it appeared similar to all I've seen.

Ice

 

[scw1991]

I spent countless hours trying to find a pressure switch that would automatically activate the unloader valve in the event of a power failure and had zero luck.

The only other option I could find is to install the Load Genie model 5A705 or 5A706 (depending on what NPT tap size you have in your tank). Unfortunately, I never did purchase it so cannot comment on it and it's function/reliability.

http://www.airtekltd.com/valves.htm

http://www.cdivalve.com/products/valves-nozzles/air-compressors/unloading-check-valves

 

[Ice cold]

I like the idea of that valve and may try it in the future. For now I'm just going to get a check valve with an unloader port. I'll get a pressure switch with the unloader valve so when the pressure switch opens to shut down the motor it will unload the pump to tank line.

I will just placard my mag starter enclosure "do not turn off switch while compressor is running." If someone cannot read then I'll hope they don't turn it back on right away. I'm thinking there should be some bleed off through the valves on the compressor head. I'll just have to keep an eye on it after the install and initial couple of runs.

ANYTHING I MAY BE OVERLOOKING IN THIS APPROACH?????

I will be wiring the remote starter at floor level and mounting the compressor up on the mezzanine (wood floor) to get it out of the way. I have my replacement 5HP single phase motor, filters, and motor starter. I am working on check valves, safety valves and plumbing stuff and should have this thing up and running next week. Takes time to get stuff shipped up here.

Thanks for the advice 1991, sounds like you have been down this road too. Any other comments for installation would be appreciated. I'll try to post some pics of the install.

Ice

 

[scw1991]

I don't see anything wrong with this approach. All I can ever stress is safety first and to ensure you have all three safety valves in place.

80 psi safety valve on discharge side of low pressure 1st stage cylinder (large cylinder)
325 psi safety valve on discharge side of high pressure 2nd stage cylinder (small cylinder)
200 psi safety valve on tank (typically mounted off of open port on pressure switch)
install a 135 psi to 175 psi pressure switch (assuming you have a 200 psi tank)

A good rule of thumb is to always drain the tank daily. If you adhere to this, you can always manually turn off the compressor, then drain the tank. In doing so, this will automatically open the pressure switch contacts and trigger the unloader valve at around 135 psi tank pressure (cut-in pressure).

 

[scw1991]

Curious if you got your compressor up and running. I've had my reservations about the mag motor starter and hope you were able to figure out the wiring. Look forward to seeing some pics!

 

[MacMcMacmac]

I'm thinking IR may be relying on a bleed back from the reed valves to act as a cheapo unloader. I've never seen a finger valve yet that sealed perfectly.

I've never had a whole lot of luck with Load Genies. If you overtorque them even a little they don't function properly.

 

[Ice cold]

Ok sorry about not updating. In between all the other projects I finally dedicated some time to this one.

Got it running today and it makes sweet music compared to the screamer craftsman.

It took longer than I thought cleaning the tank. I went to work on the big bungs to no avail. Got out the torch and heated the bungs taking care not to get the tank flange too hot. Burned some of the paint so I just painted them to match… close enough. Removed them with a big socket and a half inch impact wrench. I got most of the junk out but not all, it looks a lot better than it did before. I poured stoddards into the tank to loosen the oil/rust **** and swished it around and let it sit overnight. Then swished some more and drained as much solvent as I could into a pan. took it outside and got the pressure washer out to push all the rust stuff out. Dried it for a day in front of the wood stove and then vacuumed up as much of what was left out of it. It was definitely pitted in places on the bottom but looked sound so I'm going with it.

Most of the parts I got from the big box internet stores, not my favorite way of doing it but…… I could not source a less than really expensive 325psi safety valve so I went with a 300 psi. The intercooler safety was rated at 60psi so I went with a new 60psi instead of an 80 psi. Tank safety was a new 200psi.

I used 3/4" soft copper (BTW thats a 7/8" compression fitting) from head to the tank and all brass fittings. I got the expensive 250psi rated brass fittings instead of the 150psi. Safety first…

speaking of safety, I got some UT type flexible 1/4" copper from a big box store here. I'm thinking of getting the heavier wall but I found a site online saying it was rated up to 800psi at 400Degrees F. any thoughts on that guys????

Here are some pics. That ugly thing on the right is a Dog.

 

[Ice cold]

Now for the hitches.

Got a oil leak from the hi pressure head. Ran it a bit and noticed a drop of oil on top of tank. It is coming from one of the head bolts. Still looking for the specs on torque for the heads if anyone has them. I think I'll just tighten and see if that takes care of it.

The deck of the tank is not level and I spent a couple of hours lining the pump up with the motor. Washers and shims got it real close but I figure its belts so they can take a little tolerance on the alignment.

Had a leaky bung so I took it out and cleaned it up a bit with the wire wheel and pick. Couple of layers of blue monster tape and some dope and leak stopped.

Haven't been up to limit yet to fine tune the cut in/out settings. Started it with the old 200psi valve in place and it started to pop. Lesson learned, don't trust old safety valves. Going to install the new one I bought, that will be tomorrow.

As far as the starter goes, I think it will work just fine. I did notice fine print on starter wiring diagram stating "cust supplied switch must be N/O type" Is there such a thing as a Normally open pressure switch?..... I could use one if there is such a thing. I may be misunderstanding what it is saying. I'm assuming it would be a manual lever on the pressure switch, which I did not want. I'm using the switch on the mag starter. Again with the way I will be operating the compressor I don't think the genie valve is necessary. If I do turn the switch off before quitting for the day, the pressure should bleed off before the next morning so I won't have a loaded start. I'm not an electrician but I know enough to be safe and when to look closer. this thing will be as safe as I can build it.

The compressor is temporarily installed/wired right now so if there are any problems short term I won't have to be a contortionist 8 feet off the ground to fix it

So, comments on type UT soft copper ......
and oil leak through the head bolt / head bolt torque values.

thanks
Ice

 

[MacMcMacmac]

There should not be oil anywhere near that bolt. I would pull the head plate and see if it is pumping oil. The only way I could see the pump blowing down at a power outage would be to plumb an electric solenoid valve into the blow down line and energize it when the compressor cuts in. That way, if the power goes out, the solenoid opens and the air bleeds off.I wouldn't worry about the copper.

 

[Ice cold]

Trying to read into this. "pumping oil" meaning the rings are shot and oil is getting past them????

On the test run it seemed to fill up the tank quickly and sounded very nice. Prior to turning it on I turned it over by hand a number of times and it was smooth.

What about it being tipped and oil seeping into head?

What am I looking for when I take the head off? Torque specs for the head bolts? specs for Hi and Lo cylinder bolts are probably different....

Thanks
Ice

 

[MacMcMacmac]

Yes, pumping oil means shot rings or cylinder scoring. You will know right away because there will usually be a small amount of oil sitting on top of the piston crown. If the unit has been tipped over, that is another matter, and the problem may go away with some running.

 

[Ice cold]

Right now it is running fine with no more oil dripping. I'm going to monitor the oil level and see if it starts to decrease. It seems to fill up fast, but I have nothing to compare it to.

What would be other symptoms of scored cylinders or shot rings? any noise while turning it over by hand? Any unusual resistance? etc.

thanks
Ice

 

[MacMcMacmac]

Mostly just oil carryover. If rings are completely toast, you might get pressure in the crankcase, but they would have to be pretty much nonexistent for that to happen.