The US never treated China as friend. The US only want Chinese money (2 trillions).
Is there anything left for the Chinese to copy?
- Thread starter bmwpower
- Start date
The US never treated China as friend. The US only want Chinese money (2 trillions).
Please don't misunderstand. I am not implying that everyone, or majority, or even many, or more than a few, are racist. In the past, there were a few racist comments I had encountered in this forum. Many were meant to be funny but definitely crossing the line. I called out the person and he quickly deleted the comments.
Watch. They will avoid risky US treasury note and invest their money by buying up US companies and properties. Watch out Snap On.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1882594,00.html
J.A.F.E.
Well-known member
Firestone was bought by Bridgestone in 1988. Bridgestone has always been japanese.
That only flies because the Chinese copied Rolls Royce engine designs...
NEXT!
The indigenously developed Chengdu J-10 fighter currently used a Russian engine (Salyut AL-31FN) but will be replaced by an indigenously developed engine (WS-12 Taishan). Don't forget the US got its jet engine technology from the British and its rocket technology from the German. After WWII, the US brought back tons of German war machinery and copied them. The US has its own version of the German V2 and V1 rockets. It copied the German flying wing. It got German swept wing and forward wing technologies, wire guided missile technology, etc.
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Merkava_4
Banned
The Chinese can build a fighter jet yes, but can they build a combination wrench anywhere near the quality of Snap-on or Cornwell? Hell no!!
Did they build those jets with Chinese tools ?
Yes and no. China do have a heavy machinery industry, but I am pretty sure they use foreign machineries as well. So is everybody. US aerospace industry use heavy machinery from all over the world (especially from Japan).
The Chinese can build a fighter jet yes, but can they build a combination wrench anywhere near the quality of Snap-on or Cornwell? Hell no!!
If you are willing to pay for it, they can built better than SO. Aren't they already making ratchets for SO? Tool making is one of the lowest tech industry.
They never copy the SU-27. They licensed to build them in China for the Chinese military. The US licensed (from the British) to build the Harrier, Goshawk, and Canberra for the US military. Same situation.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/j-11.htm
Merkava_4
Banned
HaHa... if you've ever watched some if the "How it's made" videos featuring Snap-on tools, you wouldn't say tool making is low tech. The machinery they use to produce tools are state of the art. Cornwell uses some state of the art machinery too.
The only ratchets Snap-on supplies that are made in Taiwan are their Blue-Point line; those aren't Snap-on tools.
Sorry to disappoint you, but Pioneer is Japanese. I don't think there is any American TV maker left.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Corporation
Sony (Japan)
Pioneer (Japan)
Sharp (Japan)
Panasonic (Japan)
Toshiba (Japan)
Mitsubishi (Japan)
NEC (Japan)
Hitachi (Japan)
Fujitsu (Japan)
JVC (Japan)
Sanyo (Japan)
Samsung (Korean)
LG (Korean)
Daewoo (Korean)
Hyundai (Korean)
Emprex (Chinese)
Emerson (Chinese)
Phillip/Magnovox (Dutch)
GE/RCA (French)
JohnFreeman
Well-known member
"I defend the Chinese from an economic/business point of view."
Until your company loses proprietary information to their theft, and you lose your job.
Until your company loses proprietary information to their theft, and you lose your job.
What's left to copy ?
human rights
child labor laws
EPA standards
OSHA standards
probably about anything else that would actually cost them money (less profit) to follow for safer and higher quality products.
human rights
child labor laws
EPA standards
OSHA standards
probably about anything else that would actually cost them money (less profit) to follow for safer and higher quality products.
Let me clarify ... I defend them from a LEGAL economic/business point of view. Not theft. Selling and buying crappy tool is still legal. Of course I know about their theft. I talked about clone Cisco router in the telecom business. US slap them on the wrist and continue to do business. Reason is that the company is a huge. Product span from heavy military hardware to consumer electronic products. Believe me, I know about job lost. I have survived countless layoffs and mergers that resulted in tons of jobs going over to China and India. That still do not make selling **** and buying **** illegal. I bash only where it needs bashing.
HandyManny
Well-known member
I don't believe any of those tires were made in Japan. Ford's an American company, they were involved.
My point is that people talk about ethics as if only the lesser third world countries don't have any. I've worked in the trades in our own country. Not to mension I've lived on this Earth long enough to know just how unethical a great many of our fellow Americans can be. I can write a book about the unethical stuff I witnessed within our own industry and stuff I refused to be a part of. That explains why I never worked for some of these small operations for very long.
Anyone here ever work as a tech for a car dealership?
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Didn't the Russian killed a deal recently because they were pissed off at the constant theft of technologies from the previous SU-27 deal?
Yes it is, but my TV was made or at the very least assembled in the usa by the sticker on the back. So yes a japan company got my money, but it also helped keep americans in work here. The tv was to big to ship or maybe to fragile so they put them together here. If I really wanted to be a jerk, I would have bought something totally made over seas to make sure the guy down the street would lose his job.
Mickey O
Well-known member
There was an American TV company, I saw them on a TV show, it was about how they won a lawsuit because the Chinese were price fixing to put them out of business.
old salvage
Well-known member
Round & round we go !!!
mrpowderkeg
Well-known member
"I defend the Chinese from an economic/business point of view."
So devaluing their dollar on purpose, stealing intellectual property/designs, selling sub-quality products that fail to perform under normal use, selling products harmful to their customers (lead paint in kid's toys, don't forget the chinese drywall), producing and manufacturing products with an intentionally expendable workforce, and don't forget the enviromental mess they will have on their hands... all to unfairly compete with global markets, and hence put others out of business. They are doing this at a great future cost to themselves... You consider this defendable from a economic/business point of view?
So devaluing their dollar on purpose, stealing intellectual property/designs, selling sub-quality products that fail to perform under normal use, selling products harmful to their customers (lead paint in kid's toys, don't forget the chinese drywall), producing and manufacturing products with an intentionally expendable workforce, and don't forget the enviromental mess they will have on their hands... all to unfairly compete with global markets, and hence put others out of business. They are doing this at a great future cost to themselves... You consider this defendable from a economic/business point of view?
Protectionism, and doing things that bucks the laws of economics, usually back fires at some point. Look at what the Japanese were doing to us in the 80's with the computer DRAM memory, and other industries. In the end, their economy collapsed. I am not saying that was THE cause but screwing around like that usually screw yourself. Japan economy was never the same again. After decades, have they really recovered?
benjamming
Well-known member
Predicta TV is made in USA. However, I don't think they are currently shipping.
Mrpowderkeg, of course not. Maybe you miss my post at post #96 (see paragraph below)... I am speaking in regard to the crappy tools, not the melemine or the lead in their baby food. That question need not even be ask. I just see that they have a $**** load of crappy tools and we in North America buy them up. Until my ***** fall off from using their wrench, I don't have too much complaints. If the tool is good, I buy it. If it is ****, I don't buy it. All I am saying is some importer specs ****, they make ****, we buy ****. It is not entirely the fault of the Chinese.
from post #96:
Let me clarify ... I defend them from a LEGAL economic/business point of view. Not theft. Selling and buying crappy tool is still legal. Of course I know about their theft. I talked about clone Cisco router in the telecom business. US slap them on the wrist and continue to do business. Reason is that the company is a huge. Product span from heavy military hardware to consumer electronic products. Believe me, I know about job lost. I have survived countless layoffs and mergers that resulted in tons of jobs going over to China and India. That still do not make selling **** and buying **** illegal. I bash only where it needs bashing.
mrpowderkeg
Well-known member
Tools are simple devices, a wrench forged in china, is still made with chinese steal smelted in a dirty chinese smelter using our scrap steal, what you get is a cheap and inferior wrench, and the waste is dumped into a river for all the locals to enjoy, hence their expendable workforce. BUT I do agree with you, we, do buy them (the tools). If there was no market for them, I guess they would be out of business.
HandyManny
Well-known member
Never heard of them. Who's selling them and who's buying them.
It's a lot like some of the makers you see on those websites of companies who still make stuff here in USA. A lot of their products are very hard to find anywhere. Plus what they do make isn't made in enough volume to satisfy the market.
Also Just because something says "Made in USA" that does not mean it's a badge of quality or reliability. More true today than it has ever been.
HandyManny
Well-known member
Americans buy them because no US manufacturer today (besides Channellock) is making a reasonably good quality tool that sells to you and me at a fair, honest, and reasonable price. A lot of good American made tools are simply not as easily obtainable as they once were either. I can't find anything from Proto or Wright that sells locally or is stocked in my area locally. Everything I buy from those companies has to be ordered from somewhere else. The US manufacturers have abandoned that market. I'm not aware of any local auto parts stores today that is selling good quality American made tools right off the shelf. Even NAPA keeps all the good stuff out of sight.
I'm not talking about Snap-On, MAC, Cornwell, or Matco - dealers that show up at your place of business. I'm also not talking about Proto, Wright, S-K, etc. I'm talking about good quality hand tools that are US made that are easily and readily available to the general public from any outlet. Channellock and some Craftsman stuff is the only things that comes to mind. Other than that the Chinese stuff has filled that void.
Undertand this guys. Americans never voluntarily stopped buying good quality American made products. We just simply started buying what was made readily available to us when those good USA manufacturers abandoned us and the market. It was never because of consumer demand that we ended up have Chinese made stuff being offered to us.
If you ask me there is one big thing the Chinese haven't been able to copy yet - Working themselves out of a job! That something that most Americans and most American corporations have mastered completely. As long as we keep doing it so well, the Chinese won't ever have to.
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All the $**** they do is indefensible. My friend had to go deep into the sticks inside China to scope out some site for a potential factory. My friend is from Maine! The air at this region is so bad that his eyes got a rash and an infection. Local water out of the tap is grey. Bottle water taste funny. He got out of there fast and told his boss he want nothing to do with the project. He advise his company that if they don't care about the Chinese people in the town, at least care about the people (managers and technical specialists) sent there from the California parent company. He don't want to add to the misery of the people in that village. Yet, the people there have nowhere to go. They welcome the possibility of more jobs that will raise their standard of living. They just don't have the time to think about tomorrow's illness. They are worrying about feeding their family today.
As for the crappy tool with inferior steel, as a consumer, if the thing breaks while I am using it, I don't care because I did not pay much, and I did not expect much. If my fancy way too expensive Nepros wrench or Snap On wrench breaks, I would care because my expectation is higher.
When you get into the human side of things, we all have to struggle with our moral compass. For the people of the village. They have chosen. What should WE do? Take their factory away? Let them drink the water? Demand the safety standard to be raised, and they'll loose the factories to another miserable town, or another country (India, Pakistan, Vietnam, etc). There is no simple answer.
Many years ago, there was a village in Vietnam. Most of the women are prostitutes. A factory opened, and they quit selling themselves and worked in the factory. Some well intentioned American group protest the company about working conditions. The factory owners finally caved and shut the place down. The women went back to prostitution.
If we care about the people, I believe strong trade will eventually raise their standard of living to a point where they won't put up with bad air, grey water, and sickness and death form chemical pollution. Where do we draw the line? If we don't do it, some other country will take over the empty space in the market and will import that same crappy tool, made in China, imported from Paskistan (or where ever). In the end, we still won't get our tool factory jobs back. No easy answers.
benjamming
Well-known member
Handy,
I wasn't saying Predicta is the next powerhouse in TV mfg or that they will even survive. I was simply pointing out that there appears to be a company trying to make a TV in USA. How much of it is, I haven't a clue as they aren't viable enough yet for me to dig that deep. Just a point of interest post, nothing more.
Carry on.
I wasn't saying Predicta is the next powerhouse in TV mfg or that they will even survive. I was simply pointing out that there appears to be a company trying to make a TV in USA. How much of it is, I haven't a clue as they aren't viable enough yet for me to dig that deep. Just a point of interest post, nothing more.
Carry on.
HandyManny
Well-known member
And I'm thrilled to hear that there is a US manufacturer of Televisions. I was just commenting how there are lot's of products still made here, just not in the volume to satsify the market. And a lot of what is still made here isn't anywhere near the quality level that once existed in American manufacturing. All I'm saying is that "Made in the USA" isn't an indication of high quality anymore. We used to produce some damn fine products in this country. Not the case here anymore. Hopefully that TV maker can make a go of it successfully.
mrpowderkeg
Well-known member
I don't know were you are sourcing your tools from, but here in the middle of no where, where no one seems to want to live (North Dakota) I can get wright, SK, Proto, Snapon, Craftsman, Mac, etc... But the trick is, is that you have to look for the right stores, they don't openly advertise. Basically find out where your larger industries buy their tools from, and go there.
HandyManny
Well-known member
I've tried. Even contacted a local construction and industrial supply outlet. They told me that they do sell Proto, but don't stock it locally. Even they said they'd have to order it. The guy commented that he didn't think I'd be able to find anything from Proto locally. Local Fastenal warehouses, MSC warehouses, Tool & Anchor store all said it would have to be ordered as they don't stock anything from Wright or Proto locally. I do have a source for S-K tools, but that place is a bit too pricey. In any case I have all the stuff I need, just sometimes have to replace some lost or borrowed stuff. A person shouldn't have to jump leaps and bounds just to buy good quality American made tools. But MSC has always been good to deal with when ordering some of my Proto stuff.
J.A.F.E.
Well-known member
I have no idea where the tires were made. Regardless, Firetstone is a Japanese brand since 1988. Bridgestone was founded in japan in the 30's sometime and bought Firestone in 1988. I had those tires on my 1990 Bronco II which were OEM when I bought it new. I had 5 of tires come apart on me in some time less than two years. The warranty didn't cover any of it either. I did not roll over or flip. After #5 I just replaced them all with a different brand and never had another problem. Bridgestone in my opinion shifted the blame to Ford and got away with it.
krusty the clown
Member Emeritus
i believe ford took the blame even though it was a firestone problem. as part of the deal ford got a lot of firstone exec's and right after started the "quicklane" and "around the wheel" programs.
Merkava_4
Banned
You have to go into the industrialized zones to find the good tools.
I've got Home Depot and Lowes within a block of me, but I find it WAY more convenient for me to cruise down the freeway 10 miles to Gordon Industrial or Johnston Industrial because they're right off the freeway I can LITERALLY park in front of their door. I get out of my car, walk about 12 steps and I'm at the front counter with mouth watering tools all around me.
What town do you live in? I'd be happy to run a yellow pages search and find you some good local suppliers.
Nealcrenshaw
Well-known member
Very sad. I hate picking up an item with the USA flag on the front & turning it over to see "made in China".
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Show me a link.