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Japanase Pull saws

Holt

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I seen these in the stores and always wanted to try it but never did then I was watching a video of Adam Savage making a gun case for the blade runner pistol he has. He was using one of these saws and I was amazed how straight of a line he kept and how easy and clean it cut. Are these saws this good? Recently I have been getting into woodworking around my house more and just finished some wainscoting and did all the 1/4 round by hand with a miter box. I'm starting to find I produces better work with my hand then with a power tool.
 
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woody 73

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They are very nice saws but sometimes you might need a deep wallet...If you listen very hard when you walk into the woodworking store that sound you hear is your money leaving your back pocket!:evil:
 

CWP1616L

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The reason why they work so well is because they tend to straighten themselves on the pull stroke. If you've ever had a push saw bunch up as you're cutting, you'd know what I mean.

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jonzer12

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once you get a hang of them you never want to go back to a regular saw, I was cutting panels for a 8020 project out of 1/4 MDF and was making long 8ft straight lines by hand no problem. They require care tho, one you bend the thin blades they are never the same.
 

91FE

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Watch this guy's 4 videos on selecting/using pull saws... then buy one.



edit... while you're at it, he's got some pretty kickass videos on other woodworking topics that may interest you. Check out his channel.
 
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Holt

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Thanks for all the great information. I'm pretty set on buying one. Now I need a project to use it on since I finished all mine... You know you are a addicted to tool when you are looking for a new tool and finding a reason to use it.
 

Phixer

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I seen these in the stores and always wanted to try it but never did then I was watching a video of Adam Savage making a gun case for the blade runner pistol he has. He was using one of these saws and I was amazed how straight of a line he kept and how easy and clean it cut. Are these saws this good? Recently I have been getting into woodworking around my house more and just finished some wainscoting and did all the 1/4 round by hand with a miter box. I'm starting to find I produces better work with my hand then with a power tool.

Better, quicker, safer.... the more I use my hand tools, the less use I have for power tools! My pull saw gets a lot of use, both ripping and crosscut. I love its clean, straight cut.
 

Outlawmws

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I use them a lot more than push saws these days. We have been working on a shed for 89 weekends and used one a LOT for finishing inside power saw cuts..
 

Chipmunk

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The advantages of a pull saw are the thin kerf and cutting a straight line, also the smooth finish of the cut on most woods.
The disadvantages are expense unless you buy an American pull saw, a true Japanese pull saw is very very difficult to sharpen without specialized files and a abundance of skills. They are very easy to bend if you try to hurry a cut and you may as well throw a bent saw away (even one that has been straightened) or use it for rough cuts. Another disadvantage is that sometimes it may take twice as many strokes to cut the same wood as a traditional “Back or Gents” saw.

A good compromise or first pull saw is a cheap throwaway (with hardened teeth) from Home depot or other big box store.
 

firecracker

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Watch this guy's 4 videos on selecting/using pull saws... then buy one.



edit... while you're at it, he's got some pretty kickass videos on other woodworking topics that may interest you. Check out his channel.

After 50years as a carpenter using push saws I find it hard to use a pull saw very often, just watched this guys videos even he seems uneasy(leaning over his work and getting it crooked)with a push saw you can watch what your doing.:eyecrazy:
 
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Holt

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I'm set to get one of these after everyone input but one more question. How easy is it to rip a sheet of say.... 4 x 8 plywood. Is it easy to keep it straight for that length of cut. I'm going for clean accurate cuts not speed. I found out if I'm trying to go quick the slight speed increase can make my work look like ****. I have to force myself to slowdown and be patient. I'm not trying to abandon my power tools all together just want to minimize the amount I use them and enjoy the time while I craft something unique.
 

neophyte

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The two main advantages to Japanese pull saws is that they cut on the pull stroke, a design advantage that keeps the sheet metal steel blade under tension, which allows for a thinner blade, and the tooth design which uses a different and more complex geometry than typical western style saws. The main disadvantage is that Japanese woodworkers tended to hold the piece of wood being cut in a different manner than was common in Europe. If your used to cutting with workpieces held in traditional workbench vises the angle of your work to the saws can wind up being awkward. The other major problem with japanese saws is that most have a tooth geometry designed for cutting softwoods. The tooth pattern used for cutting softwoods is more aggressive than the tooth pattern used for cutting hardwoods so this can make traditional western joinery which tends to use hardwoods a bit more awkward. A good book that explains about traditional Japanese carpentry tools, including the saws is this one by Toshio Odate, called Japanese Woodworking Tools: Their Tradition, Spirit and Use. http://www.amazon.com/dp/0941936465/?tag=atomicindus08-20 There are a number of good brands for the japanese saws, Two that have worked well for me, both for performance and abuse resistance, are Z-saw and Gyokucho.
 

Chipmunk

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Wouldn't know, nor would I ever be inclined to find out.

A large sheet of plywood will most likely bind and then you will bend the pull saw and if that didn't happen the glue and cross fibers will not improve the performance of your saw.
 
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turbowoodworker

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Most Japanese saws are not made to "rip a 4x8 sheet of plywood". They excel at finer joinery, dovetails etc. They are amazing how little effort they take on the pull stroke. If they were widely available at a competitive price, push saws would be (almost) obsolete.
 

strutaeng

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Man, you better start this thread in Lumberjocks.com or something...

Yes, they are good...but....a BIG but...

1.) they can't take HARD AMERICAN hardwoods such as white oak

2). they can't be sharpened (what, who does that?!)

3). they pull sawdust into your line!

You see, Western handsaws are coming out of a dark age. They become almost extinct thanks to the invention of power tools...

There is simply not a well designed, well fitted western handsaw...

Enter Lie-Nielsen, Wenzloff and Sons, Veritas, and others...they make badass saw that are hand sharpened (yes, one tooth at a time) and that are better than pull saws...

Nothing is perfect in life, there are always trade-offs...
 

James-W

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I have considered buying one, but so far I haven't taken the plunge. I have heard good things about them, unfortunately I am old fashioned and am partial to push saws. But more and more I am thinking I should break down and buy one.
 

neophyte

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A large sheet of plywood will most likely bind and then you will bend the pull saw and if that didn't happen the glue and cross fibers will not improve the performance of your saw.


The best type of Japanese saw for use cutting large sheet goods is a type called a Kataba. They are available with either a crosscut or rip tooth design. The crosscut design is more prevalent, and would be better for cutting most sheet goods, especially plywood. I've used Japanese saws to dimension plywood. The most likely cause for plywood to bind on a Japanese saw wood be if you're using one designed for very fine joinery to make a very deep cut. Plywood that has been imported to an area with a different climate is not always flat and is more likely to bend or twist, especially if supported awkwardly. The two brands of saw I mentioned, Gyokucho and Z-Saw tend to use a tough steel and induction harden their teeth. It may be possible to screw them up but it would take effort. I know I've tried!!!:sad: The more expensive hand finished saws are more likely to get damaged by careless use.


Most Japanese saws are not made to "rip a 4x8 sheet of plywood". They excel at finer joinery, dovetails , etc. They are amazing how little effort they take on the pull stroke. If they were widely available at a competitive price, push saws would be (almost) obsolete.

The more readily available Japanese saws are made for fine joinery. Specifically the most common Dozuki back saws, as well as Finer toothed Ryobi saws (i.e., rip teeth on one edge, crosscut teeth on the other), and the Kugihiki flush cut saws that are flexible and designed to flush dowels or pegs that stick up out of a workpiece. There are Japanese saws designed for large tasks such as timber framing and dimensioning large lumber. Dieter Schmid Werkzeuge GmbH of Germany has a good selection on their website. http://www.fine-tools.com/kobiki.htm



Man, you better start this thread in Lumberjocks.com or something...

Yes, they are good...but....a BIG but...

1.) they can't take HARD AMERICAN hardwoods such as white oak

2). they can't be sharpened (what, who does that?!)

3). they pull sawdust into your line!

You see, Western handsaws are coming out of a dark age. They become almost extinct thanks to the invention of power tools...

There is simply not a well designed, well fitted western handsaw...

Enter Lie-Nielsen, Wenzloff and Sons, Veritas, and others...they make badass saw that are hand sharpened (yes, one tooth at a time) and that are better than pull saws...

Nothing is perfect in life, there are always trade-offs...

1) Again, most Japanese saws are designed for cutting Softwoods that were more commonly used by Japanese carpenters. The rake angle of those saws is sharper making them to aggresive for many USA Hardwoods. There are Japanese saws with tooth geometry made for cutting hardwoods. http://www.hidatool.com/mitsukawa-hardwood-ryoba-saws


2) The more commonly available Japanese saws have induction hardened teeth that would make them difficult to sharpen. The saws are simply designed to have the blade replaced when it gets damaged or dull. There may be diamond files that could sharpen them but it's probably not worth the effort. If replacement blades are sold by that maker their probably not meant to be sharpened. Special files are made to sharpen high end "craftsman" made saws though. http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&dept_id=13082



3) Sawdust buildup on your cutting line is a problem. I think some of the ways japanese craftsman hold their work while cutting may leave the saw line in a vertical rather than horizontal position, eliminating the problem. Another solution is to blow on the cutting line as you saw.
 

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Bruce Lancaster

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I have cheap and mid-price ones, and love the things. They do come in cross and rip like our saws.
Easier to use than our push saws if you don't do woodwork all the time...I don't, and always seem to forget the various knacks needed to control a pusher between jobs.
They come in all sorts of sizes and shapes, including big ones for log cutting and tiny ones for intricate fitting and mortising.
The generally fine teeth make accurate starting a snap and they cut almost effortlessly.
I've started admiring the toy collection at Japan Woodworker...they have fairly cheap ones and shockingly expensive ones too, in all sorts of tools.
You can buy one that's an affordable toy or one hand-made by a 10th generation Japanese super blacksmith whose great-grandfather won the Emperor's prize for chisel sharpening at the 1897 World's Fair, and their supplies for sharpening everything they sell are absolutely astounding.
www.japanwoodworker.com/
 

theoldwizard1

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Okay, I am going to try and resurrect this thread from the dead.

I want to try a Japaneses pull saw. Probably in the small to medium size range. Price must be reasonable (<$30). It does not have to be a super thin blade. Mostly for cross cutting odd wood, so a super thin kerf is not necessary (I have never been very accurate with a Western hand saw; hopefully this will help).

I think I would prefer a curved handle instead of the traditional straight one. A folding handle might be nice, but I am not going to pay much more for it.
 
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atthebeach

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I picked mine up at my local Ace Hardware store. Paid a lot less than $30 - The brand and package writing was all in Japanese. Originally purchased for woodworking applications, but it is a very handy tool which gets a lot more use than I would have expected.

My grand daughter recently picked a used caulking tube out of the trash bucket and wanted to cut it into 1" long rings for an art project. This saw made very straight and burr free cuts through the old caulking tube.
 

catron44

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CT
Okay, I am going to try and resurrect this thread from the dead.

I want to try a Japaneses pull saw. Probably in the small to medium size range. Price must be reasonable (<$30). It does not have to be a super thin blade. Mostly for cross cutting odd wood, so a super thin kerf is not necessary (I have never been very accurate with a Western hand saw; hopefully this will help).

I think I would prefer a curved handle instead of the traditional straight one. A folding handle might be nice, but I am not going to pay much more for it.
Look at tajima on Amazon, I've got several and they are great. They were reasonable priced when I got them and they have held up for several years.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

derosa

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I bought one for adjusting the bottom of the doorway trim when putting in newer thicker flooring, works better then any wester handsaw for that since it doesn't have a reinforced spine. I've got a couple of turn of the century saws, a miter and a dovetail and properly sharpened they'll do their job quick and easy.
 

jimreed2160

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Tallahassee FL
They are very nice saws but sometimes you might need a deep wallet...If you listen very hard when you walk into the woodworking store that sound you hear is your money leaving your back pocket!:evil:

Often the replacement blades are for sale. You can save some money by making your own handle. These saws do work amazingly well.
 

KaHuNaZ

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Corpus Christi, TX
Picked up a Shark Corp 15inch saw for under $30. It has made quick work of everything so far. I also bought a Gyokucho Razor Ryoba Saw at the same time for finer work, but the thing was a little smaller than I expected. I liked the Japanese pull saws so much I picked up a few more to keep in my veto bag. I was worried about the saws getting damaged or even chewing up my tool bag, so I found some folders. They are freaking awesome, but a little above your price point.
Silky WOODBOY KATABA 240 Extra Fine Teeth
and Silky 417-27 TAKERUBOY
I really love the folding silky saws and I plan on picking up a few more when I have the extra cash.
 

SRSemenza

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Apr 26, 2017
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I have the Vaughan brand of pull saws. They are very good and not really expensive. They make three single edged and one double. The three single edged blades all fit the same removable handle. Which makes for a very compact set. The medium is a nice general purpose, the small (fine) is great for thinner material , and the large coarse will eat 2 x lumber easily. You can get the blades separately from the handle to cut the cost when getting all three.

I forget the brand but one of the common big box brands (maybe Irwin but not sure) I tried was terrible. It almost put me off trying any others, but I realized they couldn't all be that bad or no one would use them. Tried the Vaughan and got the opposite effect.

I have no problem cutting hard wood with them.

I really like them.

Seth
 
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mbshop

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visalia ca
Learned as a child how to use them. Basically all I have ever used. I have regular saw but it sees wood about once every 3 years. One of my Japanese saws is at least 30 years old. Still sharp and still cutting straight.
 

Peter Mc Mahon

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If I only had one handsaw it would be Western. I like my Japanese saws, but for dovetails, mortise and tenon etc, I use my Western saws.
 

davethorik

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Norka, Ohio
I bought one for adjusting the bottom of the doorway trim when putting in newer thicker flooring, works better then any wester handsaw for that since it doesn't have a reinforced spine. I've got a couple of turn of the century saws, a miter and a dovetail and properly sharpened they'll do their job quick and easy.

This might work if you hung all the trim and know where the nails/screws are. After using a Milwaukee 18v omt for around a year for this purpose almost exclusively, I couldn't imagine using a hand saw of any kind for it. I have seen some goofy things done when people hang trim...like a pin nail every quarter inch, or screws put thru the subfloor up into the trim.
 
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