JohnnieMo's Dream Garage

[shortykorte]

My 2 cents. If the plan is 15 yrs, go with the dream garage. If you settle, you might not be as happy with the finished product
What will property taxes be on both options? Insurance?
Which option would be most appealing to future buyers?
What is the monthly/annual operational cost (utilities, maintenance) for both options?
Will solution B be using for a working shop? If yes, Will daily drivers be impacted?
Look forward to your final design.

 

[JohnnieMo]

Thanks for all the feedback from everyone so far! I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out.

Good news! My wife likes the Dream Garage idea the most. It's a good thing too, or else I'd need to rename the thread 'JohnnieMo's Compromise Garage'.

The loft won her over. She doesn't even care if we get the 18' exception. She saw that and was sold. Money and effort really weren't a factor for her (and here I thought she would use logic..... what an idiot I am).

Regardless I'm going to get some more formal quotes and see about how best to get rid of the old garage. I did find others in town that people are 'giving' away. I think if I could pull a few G's out of it I would be happy.

Exciting times!





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[JohnnieMo]

My 2 cents. If the plan is 15 yrs, go with the dream garage. If you settle, you might not be as happy with the finished product
What will property taxes be on both options? Insurance?
Which option would be most appealing to future buyers?
What is the monthly/annual operational cost (utilities, maintenance) for both options?
Will solution B be using for a working shop? If yes, Will daily drivers be impacted?
Look forward to your final design.

Property tax: I hadn't thought of this. Tax in Calgary is based on assessed land value. In effect I'm going from a double garage to a triple. On paper I think the difference will be marginal, if not zero.

Insurance: I don't expect a big hit here either. The killer in Calgary is hail (unless you're in the flood zone). So hail will hurt any garage, regardless show big. Its probably up to me what I want it insured for.

Appeal: I did consider this quite a bit. I feel a big triple if worth a lot more than two doubles. It's a more impressive structure and at least to me, is more appealing. Bigger is always better. And with water, sewer and heat, and that loft, I expect a good ROI. I think having dual garages may scare away future buyers, even in Calgary, but one big garage is more likely to at least get them in the door and see how magical it is.

Operating costs: the bigger garage obviously has higher costs but it's gas heat so not too bad. I'm looking at insulation options right now to minimize. Closed cell spray foam runs $2.40 sqft here. I'm thinking about going that route despite the massive cost (it's not in my budget).

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[Ainsley]

Glad to see you're leaning towards the single structure rather than lifting the existing garage to get more ceiling height.

 

[JohnnieMo]

Glad to see you're leaning towards the single structure rather than lifting the existing garage to get more ceiling height.

Thanks. It's only money, right?

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[JohnnieMo]

Well its time to dive in....

Listed my old garage for sale. If I don't get any bites I'll just have the buildings movers take it away.

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details..._CA&uuid=f3e79405-ec97-4f70-ba94-b22c1577b135

If you live in Southern Alberta and need a two car, take a look.

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[GGB]

It's easy to spend other people's money, but I'll never do any future build without using closed cell foam insulation.

From what I learned while researching for a recent buildout, it's not necessary to do a full stud/truss depth foam, but 1.5-2.5" to seal the structure, and then you can fill out the stud/truss with cellulose or fiberglas. What you want is to get the strucure airtight.

My other suggestions would be to make sure you insulate the pad and build good thermal breaks around the perimeter.

Good luck with whatever you decide, and thanks for sharing your "dream garage"!

GGB

 

[DEnd]

Since you are going with the big triple, and I am assuming keeping the shed, I suggest you consider adding a full size single garage door to the back (yard side). That way you can use your back yard for vehicle storage. While I'm kidding about the vehicle storage, it would allow you to have vehicular access to the back yard, which when you need it is invaluable.

What are your city codes for Laneway Housing (aka Accessory Dwelling Unit). Could you get around the height limit by making part of the building an ADU?

It's easy to spend other people's money, but I'll never do any future build without using closed cell foam insulation.

From what I learned while researching for a recent buildout, it's not necessary to do a full stud/truss depth foam, but 1.5-2.5" to seal the structure, and then you can fill out the stud/truss with cellulose or fiberglas. What you want is to get the strucure airtight.

There are ways to get a building air tight other than just spray foam. Tyvek Commercial D is one way, as is Huber's Zip sheathing system, as is a liquid applied weather resistive barrier.

My other suggestions would be to make sure you insulate the pad and build good thermal breaks around the perimeter.

Good luck with whatever you decide, and thanks for sharing your "dream garage"!

GGB

I completely agree with you there. I would do something like Norm01's "I blame Jack" build (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=272744) with insulation under the pad and wrapped all the way around the footers. That combined with an appropriate amount of exterior insulation can basically eliminate every thermal bridge, except for the perimeter of the doors and windows.

 

[JohnnieMo]

@GGB I think good insulation is important. I'm starting to lean towards a high end build more than a budget build. I think this garage, if done right, will either be the shop I have till I retire (in 30 years) or will make the house a premium space for resale. I'd even like to spray foam the house (from the outside) if this goes well.

I've been fortunate to get that house at a bargain over 13 years ago and watch real estate values more than double since then. So I have good equity to build out with. And I'm never one to half *** a project.

@DEnd
I have a 60" double door in the plans for yard access. I think that should be enough. I know that quads for me and my boy are in our future and they will likely be kept inside the yard. It's tough being on a city lot. I envy you country dwellers.

As for a secondary living space, I am zoned to do that. However the permits and regulations are quite a bit more than I want to take on. I think I can get an exception on the basis that my house is already 18' and my lot is 3' lower than the neighbours. Also the way the peak is built the structure won't occur as that tall. The eaves are still under 10'.

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[JohnnieMo]

Just an update on this thread, as things are progressing.

I've had more consultations with the City, and it sounds like I'll be going the development permit route, asking for the ~1000 sqft size and 18' height. This sounds not nearly as painful as I expected and takes 6 to 8 weeks and $557. I hope to get it moving in the next couple weeks.

As for the foundation, it sounds like a frost wall can be circumvented if I get an engineer to design a slab that will work. I like this approach far better, as it is such an easier project for me. When you have to start digging 5' deep trenches, it gets in to tree roots, all my buried lines, and inlets to the garage.

As for the building itself, I've been exploring using Structural Integrated Panels (SIPs) on a different thread here on GJ. (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=274178) I'm going to meet with a local manufacturer and see.

SIPs seems to be more expensive, I'm just not sure how much. When you build with these panels, they become the "structure" all on their own, so you don't need a lot of the other structural supports. So once I get the numbers all in, I should be able to get a final determination.

As for the sale of my old garage, I've had 4 people contact me already.... so it must be priced right.

 

[JohnnieMo]

I've really studied this project, top to bottom. I've talked to the city about 10 times, and have quotes from building companies, and moving companies. I've decided not to move forward with the project - for two primary reasons:

1. I just can't get my head around throwing away a perfectly good 2 car garage. I see guys on here making the most of doubles and even singles, so why am I trashing a perfectly good double? The best I can get out of it is $2500, and even that is hit and miss (I had about 5 bites)

2. The new build is $35k before I even consider furnishing it. That number just seems really high. I don't have that kind of money to throw away. I'd far sooner use that on things like buying quads for my son and I, or putting money into the boat or car.

On top of all this, as I'm sure you all have experienced, my wife hated the whole project. She pretended to be on board because it made me happy, but she detested every aspect of it. I knew I was in for a year of torture spending all my time building a structure she couldn't stand.

---

The good news in all this is after we had a good dialogue, she said more about what she wanted for our backyard. It exposed some ideas I never had before.

Firstly, she wants more sun. Right now we have a covered deck, and 3 large trees. She wants the cover on the deck gone, and the trees gone. I'm a prairie boy and cutting down trees is heresy to me, however if that's what it takes for her to enjoy the yard, then so be it.

Secondly, with the trees removed, I now have options I didn't have before - specifically making the garage longer instead of wider. This way I can maximize the "parking space" for parking and automotive repairs. The new added space can then become my dedicated workshop.

I've actually discovered this winter that by being clever you can get a lot out of less space. Right now I have my whole boat in there, all my tools, and I still have room to work on a full-sized truck. If I get all the tools and storage racks out of the way, I could even place a 4 post lift inside!

Thirdly, and I have to give credit to Ainsey for this - I can raise the entire garage up to make more height. It should be a relatively easy project compared to what I was looking at before.

Lastly, I'll go forward on the Boat-Port idea. I like having the versatility of an outdoor space, as then I can do my wash-downs there, and have lots of room to park other things without the restrictions of a garage door. For instance, today I have a car hauler there. The added height on the garage also makes the roof lines work far better for this.

Green is the garage expansion to the west, while the blue shows the boat port to the north.



So that is the plan as of today. I'll be doing detailed drawings in the next few weeks. The best part of all of this is that I don't need to rush. If it takes 3 years, so be it. The cash is literally in the bank so I can take my time and get it done, and still enjoy my toys during the process.

I'll probably start a new thread for this new build.... apologies to anyone who reads this 4 years from now and discovers no ending One day I'll build a true dream garage, but not on this property.

Thanks for all the contributions. I hope you all follow me to the new thread! I'll post it here when I get to that stage.

 

[WarrenJ]

Good luck with your changes. Looking forward to your posts.

 

[YukonXL04]

Hey Man, Just read through your whole thread. Ah the challenges of building lol. Looks like you figured something out to get things working out.

I have a question for you, Where did you get the models for the cars and boat in google sketchup? I have been designing mine out and those would help picture the visual room inside mine.

 

[JohnnieMo]

Inside of sketchup's file menu there is something called the 3D warehouse. You can search for models other people have made in there. Some of them are pretty poor, so you have to try a few before you get one you like. They also aren't sized properly, so I had to rescale all the vehicles.

I have my new designs getting close, but I'll start a new thread when I get there. GJ is such a great place, I can't log in without finding new ideas that change everything

Here is a teaser:



Trying to sort out an automated gate right now....

 

[JohnnieMo]

Tree is also gone as of this weekend. Had it out of the ground and at the "mulch maker" in 4 hours. Temp was -12C.

 

[JohnnieMo]

I like your plans for the new garage, but wow, that really sounds expensive for indoor boat storage, especially when your existing garage is in pretty good shape. Have you considered building a really nice carport for the boat? Maybe with a shed roof tied into your existing roof about halfway up to the peak.

How long are you planning to stay in this house? It just seems to me that the return on investment for a rebuild is too long to make it worthwhile.

Well Rick, in the end I think you were bang on. I've re-evaluated and the truth is that my job can be somewhat transient, so if I build this $35k garage I would likely be transferred the next day. I've started a new thread mostly based on the Boat-Port concept.

I hope you all follow along and thanks for the input.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4703061#post4703061

 

[RickP]

You know, I'm really torn about this one, because I really wanted you to have your dream garage - like you said, it was the title of the thread, right? That was your goal all along, but I was just worried it wouldn't make financial sense if you moved anytime soon... Look on the bright side - your new garage is already designed for the new house if you do move!

When I read your earlier post, this is what jumped out at me as the absolute most important thing that happened out of all this:

On top of all this, as I'm sure you all have experienced, my wife hated the whole project. She pretended to be on board because it made me happy, but she detested every aspect of it. I knew I was in for a year of torture spending all my time building a structure she couldn't stand.

---

The good news in all this is after we had a good dialogue, she said more about what she wanted for our backyard. It exposed some ideas I never had before.

Happy wife = happy life! This dialogue will probably pay more dividends than you can imagine over the next decade. (Take it from someone who's been married 20+ years when I say that!)

I'm really glad you reached a decision, and I hope you buy some great new toys with the $$ you saved. I look forward to reading about it in your new thread.