Keeping the HOA happy

[CraigStu]

I don't think you have mentioned what siding and roof is on your house. If it is fairly common variety just get more and use it. If the siding is an upgrade quality, often you can get the same color and similar style, but in a lower grade which will save some $. I have worked in a basic steel building that a friend had. It was fine in the summer but not fun in the winter. My brother and I owned a really nicely finished inside steel building which was great so they can be made nice. But by the time you do that, I don't think you save much, and you still have to do something w/ the outside. Our last 3 houses had stick built attached garages and I am convinced stick built is the way to go if you will use it a lot. Our previous house we had an add-on bay done by a contractor but I finished the inside and added a lot more lighting and outlets. I hate mudding drywall and am not good at it. I got the vertical joints OK but the ceiling was a disaster. I finally bought a sheet of 1/4 one side nice plywood. I cut strips to cover the joints and make a 'crown molding'. I saved some $ doing the inside myself. And since I did it in steps over about 6 months I got to add electrical as needed based on actually working there. that was a lot better than trying to decide everything up front and it is so easy to do before drywall.

 

[Showkey]

HOA or covenant story: local guy living a development of 1-5 acres $350-$600k homes decided a semi trailer was better cheaper storage solution. It came to getting legal with an attorney...he lost. So there’s always those that have no common sense or respect for others or them selves.

He also used the septic mound for the loading ramp.......he ended up f***ing up the septic system in the process.

 

[ripperd]

Comply, happily, 100%.
Did you know the rule before you bought?
(you're going to get a lot of replies from people who have never lived in an hoa and EVERYONE in any hoa is glad for it.)

Spot on.

<- Has an HOA and has no issues with it.

 

[az45]

I have long HOA story that includes me getting on the board because I didn’t like how one of the members/real estate broker seemed to not have to follow the rules and my new neighbor of 12 months was on the Architecture Review Board. The crybaby neighbor started complaining about my driveway of 40 years(I’ve owned the house for 16) seems to cover 9sq ft of his property at the apron and he thought his board position gave him leverage. A funny story for another day.

I will say that now that I’m on the board, I have a better understanding how it works and what PITA some of the residents are. The board don’t want to fight with you and most elected members are reasonable. The bigger PITA you are, the more the board has to work… Follow the rules to a reasonable interpretation, be concise to minimize questions. One thing I found is the votes are rarely even, some members just g with the flow. Figure out the alfa member and make sure you/re in-line with their thinking.
The other option is to make your house match your steel building

 

[racerex]

......Just study the requirements, meet them fully, don't ask for any variances, and don't talk about how you've always wanted to do foundry work, metal stamping, auto recycling, welding, and repairs in your proposed shop.

Agreed!

Ask me why I know.....been the Treasurer and pretty much managed the operations of my HOA since the developer turned the HOA over to the homeowners 20+ years ago......and I’ve run unopposed ever since then. My fellow Board members have been pretty reasonable over the years and most of the time they defer to me on touchy matters due to my tenure and the fact that we’ve had minimal issues over the years.....and my number one priority is maintaining property values......and the homeowners appreciate that. Even in the down real estate markets, homes in the development have moved quickly and for good money. When we’ve had to say no to items and deal with homeowner issues, we’ve had the support of the other homeowners.

A funny aside, guess who’s the only homeowner in the development with a detached garage? Yes, I abstained from approving my own build and I complied with all of the requirements. I also kept the size below the need to get a variance....and deal with any wacky setback or building envelope issues.

 

[dcg9381]

$350-$600k homes decided a semi trailer was better cheaper storage solution. It came to getting legal with an attorney...he lost. So there’s always those that have no common sense or respect for others or them selves.

The other side of this is that I've lived in HOAs that issued violations without bothering to check the factual basis. I built a fence that was in-compliance with CC&Rs, got a letter telling me I was being fined $50/day until it was relocated to "Behind the setback". We removed it, but then had the exact same fence approved in the same location. It was my bad for not asking for "permission" - but you don't really need permission if your changes are compliant... Cost me some money. I got no apology from the board. So I got on the board after that.

I like to say, in consideration of a "legal battle" with your HOA. The HOA has all your money and all your neighbors money to fund legal. You only have your money. Boards are indemnified - you can't sue them personally and win, which means they can typically do whatever they want without personal risk. And most HOAs can "special assess" if they have unpaid legal bills or bills that need to be paid...

 

[Lynden]

Have you gotten any prices from pre-fab garage companies or taken any tours of their operations? There are quite a few in Washington and Oregon. This company is located near you in Monroe.

https://www.barnpros.com/contact.aspx

https://www.barnpros.com/barn-plans-products.aspx?itemid=1544&pagetitle=Garage---Shops

 

[flathead dave]

HOA's are ok for some things.
Saying that, I would never ever buy into an HOA again!
They are good for keeping the trashy people out and keeping the "hood" looking nice and that's about it.
The board members can be *** holes! They want to be in power! Almost nazi like!
Rules are good and I have to agree with most of them.

I went through this with a front screen door. No one had a screen door in the complex. I don't like to have my front door open with out a screen door to let the bugs and humans in or to see the inside of my condo.

Well! I hung a very nice screen door and the place erupted! HAHAHAHA...
I refused to take it down and after three months, I won the issue. They screamed and yelled and I screamed and yelled back. No one did that to them before. The bastards!
The board wanted me to form a screen door committee so that everyone else could have a screen door and to decide on what doors were acceptable.
Of course, I declined in my personal way but I won!

Until you get on the board and try to make some changes, you're stuck with doing what they want.

Now I'm pissed off! "RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE"

 

[D45]

didnt read your post after i saw HOA . . . ..

no way in hell will i live under the thnb of a HOA

^^^^^^^^this

 

[dcg9381]

To the point about allowing it in the past - Ours states "the fact that a violation of these provisions has not been enforced shall not estop or bar in any way subsequent enforcement of these provisions by any party authorized to insist upon enforcement."

To me that means they CAN enforce a rule on you even if they let it slide before.e building look in "harmony" with your house if your just looking for storage.

I'm not a lawyer. I have been on an HOA board and got to pick and choose the battles.. As well being the deserting vote when neighbors wanted to pick on neighbors.

The concepts of "selective enforcement" and "grandfathering" is not set aside by a clause that says an HOA is allowed to choose "subsequent enforcement". I get that this clause is designed to allow that, but IMHO, it's not going to fly. If this clause were valid and enforceable, an HOA could approve a steel building one day and then deny someone else the exact same building. It also reads (to me) that an approved structure could subsequently become unapproved. Neither is true.

Look at it this way, an HOA can set whatever rules it wants. They can ban antennas, ban political signs, but that doesn't mean they are right or those covenants are valid...


Here's the warning (for my state): An HOA board can enforce whatever it wants at any time. No matter how discriminatory, wrong, or invalid. Board members have NOTHING to lose - you can't sue them successfully. Be careful where you live and who is on the board.


After 12+ years of no HOA, I bought unrestricted (no city) land that has an HOA. I got explicit permission for my shop as part of a deal to buy the property (developer had not turned over control, even though he should have). The rest of the restrictions I was "OK" with - but I also know that this HOA doesn't have $1 of funding, hasn't filed state taxes in 10 years, and hasn't had any sort of election in 7 years. If it "restructures" that alone is enough to challenge.. It's a risk.. And I'd strongly prefer a different situation.

 

[Showkey]

I'm not a lawyer. I have been on an HOA board and got to pick and choose the battles.. As well being the deserting vote when neighbors wanted to pick on neighbors.


After 12+ years of no HOA, I bought unrestricted (no city) land that has an HOA. I got explicit permission for my shop as part of a deal to buy the property (developer had not turned over control, even though he should have). The rest of the restrictions I was "OK" with - but I also know that this HOA doesn't have $1 of funding, hasn't filed state taxes in 10 years, and hasn't had any sort of election in 7 years. If it "restructures" that alone is enough to challenge.. It's a risk.. And I'd strongly prefer a different situation.

The HOA maybe inactive or dissolved but covenants can be still valid.

That’s where land use covenants come into play........they are on the deed.

https://www.thebalance.com/how-restrictive-covenants-affect-land-use-1797728

 

[glentre]

What my neighbor builds on his property affects my property values as well as those of the surrounding neighbors. If he erects a visible metal pole barn or other conspicuous structure in his yard, he probably doesn't care what it looks like but the rest of us do care not only because it may not fit in with the look of the area but, more importantly, because our property values will decline. Threads over the years on this forum point to the fact that even our home-matching dream garages add little value for future resale. However, structures that don't fit in the neighborhood like metal buildings, even if cosmetically dressed up a bit, actually diminish the resale value of that property and of the neighbors as well. HOA or not, those who choose to disregard their neighbor's concerns are self-centered thoughtless individuals. Just my opinion.

Glen

 

[Worsedog]

I'll leave the HOA comments out as I don't have to nor have had to deal with one. But a stick built structure will most likely make it easier for you to meet the standards. I do think though you will need to spend considerably more than $25K to build something you will be happy with.

While I will admit I'm not familiar with building costs in your area, I can't imagine that they would be significantly cheaper than rural central Florida where I live. I have about 1400 sq. ft. Our property appraiser has a column that lists "Replacement Cost New" value. It states about $65k for mine. You didn't say how much of the work you plan or are able to do, so it may or may not matter. Obviously if you do it yourself it should be cheaper as you have no "real money" labor costs.

Just something to think about your budget.

 

[alsancle]

Lets ignore the HOA issue for a moment.....

And lets discuss stick built vs Steel....which is really what this is about.

Stick vs Steel gets talked about a lot here. Steel and the pre-fab jobs are attractive because of cost....initial cost that is. But as many guys will tell you....long term, that cost savings goes away when you start to factor in finishing out the inside.

If you don't care what the inside looks like, and just want a 'shell' for a garage....yeah, steel is good.

Let's look at your situation.....you're in Washington State....Everett to be exact....close to the Boeing plant? It rains a lot. It's humid....it's cold....it's hot.

Do a search on steel building humidity control. We have had guys complain about it almost raining inside their steel building. High humidity, roof cools off, condenses the moisture....it rains.

Because it gets both cold and hot, one would assume you want to insulate....steel is not as easy to insulate....or toss up drywall....

800-1200 sq ft is nothing.....foundation cost is going to be the same. I personally don't think you will save much if anything going with steel.

Also consider re-sale value. If the garage looks good....matches the house, it will be a lot easier to sale.

Even without the issue of an HOA, I think you would be making a mistake going pre-fab steel. It's not like you can return that pre-fab and go stick if you don't like it. Once you buy it, you're stuck with it.

Do it right up front....in your case, stick is the way to go. It might cost a few more $$ up front, but will be cheaper in the long run.

Oh, BTW....welcome to GJ. I would suggest spending some time in the Garage Gallery section.

A quick shout out that this was a well written post. The stick vs steel discussion is complicated but I like your short analysis. My one addition would be steel gives you larger clear span widths. I have a similar issue as the OP, no HOA but a suburban Boston setting means an ugly garage would need to be torn down for me to sell my house one day.

 

[alsancle]

Eh, double post. Surprised I can't delete it.

 

[kaymccampbell]

Well, we've revived a year old thread. My only question is, did the shop get built? If so, where are the pics?

 

[andyvh1959]

Never lived in a HOA, and from what I have read about them, never will, no matter how appealing the house, property or location may be. I have no issue being good to my neighbors, being reasonable with my property and how it affects others. But it seems these HOAs only want compliance no matter your personal needs and rights.

 

[dcg9381]

I'd been hoping to go the pre-fab route to save some coin but the typical corrugated sheet metal isn't going to fly with the HOA. So, my question to you all is this: were you in this situation, how would you maximize bang-for-buck while keeping the HOA happy?

I've spent a lot of money to get out of HOA land. But my best advice living there:
* Get to know your board members, outside of this issue.
* If your board is unreasonable, get involved - know who you're voting for or actually get on the board or the arch review subcommittee. I got on the board after being "fed up" with poor decisions that were not in line with our restrictions.

You might show us a view of the front of your home for "ideas" on how to make things congruent with the new building. Or a similar home to yours if you don't want to share.

You say steel isn't going to fly, but I just built a home that's masonry, steel siding (metal building), and Hardie - no one has complained and my neighborhood has some expensive homes. Your challenge will be making it match a bit, but we can give you ideas there.

 

[My Old Tools]

Lets ignore the HOA issue for a moment.....

And lets discuss stick built vs Steel....which is really what this is about.

Stick vs Steel gets talked about a lot here. Steel and the pre-fab jobs are attractive because of cost....initial cost that is. But as many guys will tell you....long term, that cost savings goes away when you start to factor in finishing out the inside.

If you don't care what the inside looks like, and just want a 'shell' for a garage....yeah, steel is good.

Let's look at your situation.....you're in Washington State....Everett to be exact....close to the Boeing plant? It rains a lot. It's humid....it's cold....it's hot.

Do a search on steel building humidity control. We have had guys complain about it almost raining inside their steel building. High humidity, roof cools off, condenses the moisture....it rains.

Because it gets both cold and hot, one would assume you want to insulate....steel is not as easy to insulate....or toss up drywall....

800-1200 sq ft is nothing.....foundation cost is going to be the same. I personally don't think you will save much if anything going with steel.

Also consider re-sale value. If the garage looks good....matches the house, it will be a lot easier to sale.

Even without the issue of an HOA, I think you would be making a mistake going pre-fab steel. It's not like you can return that pre-fab and go stick if you don't like it. Once you buy it, you're stuck with it.

Do it right up front....in your case, stick is the way to go. It might cost a few more $$ up front, but will be cheaper in the long run.

Oh, BTW....welcome to GJ. I would suggest spending some time in the Garage Gallery section.

Steel buildings can be insulated, heated, cooled,and humidity controlled just like any other building. That is not an issue.

 

[PugetDude]

But it seems these HOAs only want compliance no matter your personal needs and rights.

You agree to the HOA guidelines when you move in, your "personal needs and rights" do not usurp the contract you signed with your neighbors when you bought into the community. Don't like the guidelines for a particular community? Move elsewhere, where you can do as you please- and so can your neighbors. Good luck, zoning can be hit-or-miss and not everyone is as neat and tidy and considerate as you might hope. I've lived both in and out of HOA- governed properties, have seen the good and bad, and good gone bad.

If, after you move into an HOA-governed community, you find the rules to be too constrictive, you have two choices: work to change them via the appropriate process, or move. Pretty simple. Compliance isn't optional, you gave up that "right" when you signed on the dotted line.

 

[Showkey]

Never lived in a HOA, and from what I have read about them, never will, no matter how appealing the house, property or location may be. I have no issue being good to my neighbors, being reasonable with my property and how it affects others. But it seems these HOAs only want compliance no matter your personal needs and rights.

HOA is just a very small part that applies to a small community.
Read up on covenants, zoning and deed restrictions.........every property has them to some extent. So your your personal needs and rights are very often restricted or contained.

This also comes up often when the hobby shop turns into a business in a residential area. Which brings up the same opinions and comments.

The other one that comes up are chickens and goats etc in a residential areas.

 

[dcg9381]

Steel buildings can be insulated, heated, cooled,and humidity controlled just like any other building. That is not an issue.

Bingo. We have no issues with these buildings (in my geography) - I've seen a bunch that have been standing 10-15 years, foam insulated, no problems.

We "mixed" construction - we have a big shop, to make it look like the residence, we just put in a brick ledge and did 36" of masonry on one the side that faces the street. Relatively low cost.

The house, we used steel siding on parts of the upper floors, matching the shop trim color.

Read up on covenants, zoning and deed restrictions.........every property has them to some extent. So your your personal needs and rights are very often restricted or contained.

The difference (here) is that enforcing deed restrictions and zoning requires "private action" - the county won't do it. Some cities will do it. So in order for someone to enforce restrictions they have to sue, which costs money - so it's a pretty high bar.

In an HOA, they've got a lawyer waiting pre-funded by your dues and all your neighbors dues. I've seen HOAs get restrictions wrong - like flat wrong. The board members are indemnified (they have nothing to lose) and if you sue the HOA, you're (to some degree) suing yourself. First steps should always be to have a conversation with the board.

 

[duneslider]

Good luck dealing with the HOA, I see the good side of them but it sure seems like a lot go on power trips and really are hard to work with.

There was a neighborhood near me where a guy built a beautiful really nice house and used Hardi siding, city approved it but apparently it didn't meet the HOA req. This was right when Hardi came out. It was easily the nicest house in the neighborhood. They fought for years and it came to the point he lost and they were going to take his house if he didn't stucco it. He complied and had the stucco applied in the most hideous pink color I have ever seen (HOA apparently didn't have color restrictions in the CCR's).

He quickly sold the house after that and for about 20 years that ugly pink house sat at the entrance of that subdivision mocking the HOA. Rules changed and now half the houses in that subdivision have revamped the exteriors to include Hardi siding.

 

[mike93lx]

Good luck dealing with the HOA, I see the good side of them but it sure seems like a lot go on power trips and really are hard to work with.

There was a neighborhood near me where a guy built a beautiful really nice house and used Hardi siding, city approved it but apparently it didn't meet the HOA req. This was right when Hardi came out. It was easily the nicest house in the neighborhood. They fought for years and it came to the point he lost and they were going to take his house if he didn't stucco it. He complied and had the stucco applied in the most hideous pink color I have ever seen (HOA apparently didn't have color restrictions in the CCR's).

He quickly sold the house after that and for about 20 years that ugly pink house sat at the entrance of that subdivision mocking the HOA. Rules changed and now half the houses in that subdivision have revamped the exteriors to include Hardi siding.

I have zero sympathy for someone that signs up for rules and then ignored them. That is 100% his fault

 

[duneslider]

I have zero sympathy for someone that signs up for rules and then ignored them. That is 100% his fault

While I agree, I just thought it was funny he ended up coloring his house pink. It became a much bigger eye sore than it otherwise was. It was the talk of the town for a long time and the HOA was pissed but couldn't do anything about it.

An old lady bought the house because it was pink and lived there until she died from what I understand. I think the house has been converted back to Hardi again.

Just a funny story.

 

[e015475]

The last HOA I was a member of had a architect on retainer for plans review for both new construction and homeowner changes.

When I wanted to build an out-building on my property I hired the architect the HOA used to do the design. He knew the CC&Rs and design guidelines very well and approval of the HOA's architectural committee was a slam-dunk.

Absent a architect on retainer to the HOA, there's usually still a ARC (architecture review committee) made up of HOA directors. I'd start by getting copies of the CC&Rs and design guidelines, hire a designer or architect to help you translate that into an approve-able design, then start politic-ing the ARC members prior to submitting for approval. Usually the HOA's management company will have a property manager that manages the architectural approval process. He won't have a 'dog in the fight' like HOA directors on the ARC and is a good place to start.

Having sat on HOA boards and ARCs for 15 years, I can tell you that people that try to skirt the rules or do whatever they want because "its my property" are the ones that cause the HOA to dig their feet in for approval. Those that know the CC&Rs and design guidelines and can present a compelling case that they've followed them don't have any issues.

 

[e015475]

post dup deleted

 

[ford33]

I am happy to hear your HOA is doing the job and enforcing the rules for everyone. That is what a good HOA does and you should be willing to work with them. They will work with you when you work with them.

HOA's are neither good or bad. They work well for people who want properties maintained, peace of mind that wayward homeowners will be brought in line and organized efficient operations of neighborhood services.

 

[justanengineer]

I’ve had homes in a few HOAs and never had issues predetermining if I would be welcome or not there. Quite the opposite actually, I think HOAs have fewer issues bc neighbors come to meetings and social events a couple times a year, talk, and vent concerns/gripes so nothing builds to involving the city or lawyers. My current one is awesome, ~$25 annually that goes mostly for social events and they love to fight the city to help homeowners, which saved us and others each a $70k bs bill last year.


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[NewShockerGuy]

Move to some place without a HOA, or get on the board. You have to satisfy them. The people that want to be on those boards are generally the type you don't want making those type of decisions. With out examples of others doing the same thing you are in trouble if you don't give them what they want.

Good luck

This is actually not bad advice in terms of getting on the board...

I did this years ago (and still on our HOA). I was asked to join years ago when certain people left so that way we could keep certain things maintained but also be more lack with things.

As it sits now we've approved so much stuff that would have been shot down years ago and I'm glad the neighborhood is not identical like it used to be. People should be able to modify and change things to their homes. My ultimate and end game is destroying the HOA from within..lol

Our HOA isn't terrible but I still don't like HOAs.

With the OP. I would honestly just try and match it to the house. I think long term that actually looks better, and it looks like it was planned rather than another structure just "added" at a later time. Might be more expensive but if you ever go to sell I feel like having a matching structure to the house look is a better choice.

-Nigel

 

[dcg9381]

While I agree, I just thought it was funny he ended up coloring his house pink. It became a much bigger eye sore than it otherwise was. It was the talk of the town for a long time and the HOA was pissed but couldn't do anything about it.

Just a funny story.

It depends on what the rules said. If they required "stucco" I get it, but if they allowed "masonry" - hardie is a concrete product and there were years of battles getting this though various local regulators (cities/HOAs)...

Certainly this battle cost tens of thousands, maybe more considering losses at resale.

But yea, if you do something and don't request (required) approval, you're taking a risk...

 

[dcg9381]

People should be able to modify and change things to their homes. My ultimate and end game is destroying the HOA from within..loll

I've looked at removing HOAs before (while being on the board) - it's very difficult if there is any "common property". Even without, here, it basically requires an almost unanimous vote - which is functionally impossible to get.

I bought into an HOA again recently, but balanced that against the benefit of being outside the city limits. One thing that made me decide to purchase was finding that the HOA was never funded by the developer and he never turned over voting control, hadn't had a meeting in 5 years, and had failed to file tax status.... It is, essentially, "defunct". There is a risk that it could be resurrected some day, but I believe I'd have a basis for legal challenge in regard to voting rights.

It also helps that 3/4 of the neighbors have built "shops" without any sort of approval...

 

[triesharder]

I would live under a bridge before I would live under HOA.

And I would be one less buyer for anyone's home in a HOA.

Meanwhile realtors love them....

 

[engineer2]

I'm glad our HOA only concerns itself with the common areas and leaves homeowners alone. Helps to have a beer with the HOA president once in a while.

 

[dcg9381]

I'm glad our HOA only concerns itself with the common areas and leaves homeowners alone. Helps to have a beer with the HOA president once in a while.

By far the best deal is a "POA" - which has no say in individual property, but exists to manage common property and community interests.

 

[andyvh1959]

Good luck dealing with the HOA, I see the good side of them but it sure seems like a lot go on power trips and really are hard to work with.
They fought for years and it came to the point he lost and they were going to take his house if he didn't stucco it.

Is this for real? The HOA could take his house if he didn't comply with a siding issue? Unless it was some sort of lease/rental where he did not actually hold the deed to the property how could a HOA possibly "take" his house.

 

[L5wolvesf]

By far the best deal is a "POA" - which has no say in individual property, but exists to manage common property and community interests.

I can't speak for TX but here in AZ a POA CAN have a say in individual property issues (design, colors, etc) all that has to be done is include that ability in the CC&Rs. Pretty much like an HOA.

 

[L5wolvesf]

I would live under a bridge before I would live under HOA.

The Bridge Owners Association (BOA) would want to know the size and color of your box.

 

[rawen2]

Never underestimate the determination of busybodies. And guess who usually runs for a seat in an HOA?

 

[justanengineer]

Never underestimate the determination of busybodies. And guess who usually runs for a seat in an HOA?

Folks willing to do a thankless job when nobody else wants to.


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