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Kitchen cabinets

branimal

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I'm getting ready to place a kitchen cabinet order and wanted to get some opinions. The kitchen is already plumbed and electric has been setup.

1. Upper cabinet height: The ceilings are 112" in the kitchen area. I was initially going to do 36" upper cabinets, but I think minimizing the space above the cabinets looks better. I'm leaning toward getting 42" upper cabinets. And since I'm in NYC, storage space is key. With my counter height at 35 3/4", a 19 1/8" backsplash, the bottom of the upper cabinets sits at 54 7/8". I'm 5'9" and can reach to "enough" of the shelves in the upper cabinet w/o a step stool. My girlfriend is 5'6" and she likes the taller cabinets. She doesn't live with me so she's not making the decision, but a woman's opinion is worthwhile to listen to. CYA.

With 42" cabinets and let's ballpark 2 1/2" crown moulding height, the empty space at the top is 12 7/8".

2. Backsplash: I bought a commercial style Pull-Down Sprayer Kitchen Faucet a few months ago and I didn't think too much about the height requirements. It's 18" tall so I'm allotting an extra 1 1/8" for clearance from the upper cabinet. That totals 19 1/8" for the backsplash. The backsplash is a little taller than typical. Is this going to bite me at some point in the future. I could use a shorter cabinet above the sink but I like a consistent line across the cabinets. The backsplash will be tiled.


Here's a diagram of what the cabinet layout looks like. Feel free to critique. I can't really swap many things around now since the plumbing and electric are setup.

I changed the dishwasher from 18" to 24" (Amazing how much more 18" d/w cost). I also bumped up the sink base from 24" to 27". The upper cabinets will all be 42" except the cabinet above the fridge.

Oh and there are no windows in the kitchen. Brooklyn, NYC.


Thanks.
 

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CraigStu

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I did a quick look at your plan and what stood out to me is why no wall corner cabinet in the right corner? OTOH I am with you on the tall wall cabinets. We have a small pop open 2 step ladder to get to the very top shelf. Beats the heck out of things you only use every couple of months being stored in a closet or wherever. Heck I might even look if there are cabinets over 42 inches. If they were say 48, you could leave the crown molding off or go w/ a much shorter moulding, IF it looked too bad w/ just 6 inches or so gap to the ceiling. Or go even taller. Cabinet makers sell all shapes of trim pre finished to match the cabinets. On my SILs kitchen he had about a 4 inch gap to the ceiling. A little too much for crown molding to cover. So he got an about 1/2" x 3" flat board. We overlapped the bottom of it about 3/4" onto the front cabinet face. Crown filled in the rest. It looks great.
 

steaks&anvils

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My personally like for cabinets is to get the taller uppers. That dead space above/on top just gathers dust. You can always use a step stool to get the stuff from the upper shelf.

Make sure you get a full depth over refrigerator cabinet too. Not a thin "wall cabinet". You will use that space, again for less used items.

Make sure you have enough space between your counter and the upper cabinets. Coffee makers, blenders etc that sit out need the head room! My sister's place had them too low and a coffee maker wouldn't fit on the counter under that cabinets.

I also don't like a microwave over the stove top. But I understand space needs. Again, make sure there is space between the cook top and a big *** stock pot. My sister again, she could barely stir a pot that was under the microwave, the spoon was too long and the pot too tall.

They did not tile the back splash far enough behind the refrigerator. When she got a new one, painted wall showed at the top and on one side.
 

Ralf11

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I always wind up sticking stuff on top in the dead space.

If you don't suffer form that affliction then fill it in with a panel
 

ddawg16

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I would rethink the cabinet above the sink.

We have two sinks....Farmhouse copper sink in front of the window and a copper prep sink....that has a cabinet above it. Thankfully it's a small sink...but still feels 'tight' when using it.

Also....if possible, reconsider the lower cabinet height. Unless you're short, consider 38" for the finished height.
And 19" spacing between lower and upper is a bit high. I believe 16" is standard.

Side note....I made my own cabinets
 

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jar944

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54" - 38" = 16"
or
54" - 36" = 18"

My lowers are 38" to the finished surface....that puts my uppers at the standard 54"

19-1/2" is still kinda high

I wouldn't go 38" for a variety of reasons. First being it would be a custom order, second would be resale. 36" is std, the average american woman is 5'4" and man 5'9".
 

The Cobbler

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An ongoing reno I'm working on has 98" ceilings . small kitchen. used 42" main upper cabinets with a 2" filler across the tops . no valance or bulkhead .
over the sink is a window so no cabinet .I put a 6" valence between the cabinets with an LED pot light in the ceiling .
need a stool to get to the top of the cabinets but a lot of storage space for a small kitchen . I don't see it as a selling deficiency . infact everyone that has seen it thinks its a good idea.
 

ddawg16

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I wouldn't go 38" for a variety of reasons. First being it would be a custom order, second would be resale. 36" is std, the average american woman is 5'4" and man 5'9".
If I ever sell my house, the buyer will not be average.

My wife is 5'9"....and I'm 5'12"

I still find our cabinets to be a little low.

You would be surprised at how much more comfortable the higher cabinet is.

But, I'm not going to be using them....so the OP can do what he wants.
 

steaks&anvils

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My lowers are at 36in top of counter edge. The uppers are 18in from counter.

I just measured my Waring blender and it is 15in tall. The old school Cuisinart food processor is 16in tall.

The dish drainer next to the sink, sometimes stuff is too tall to fit under the cabinet side of it (pan lids, pots etc).

The utensil holder and knife block fit fine.

I would go 18in for sure or 19in since you have the room.

I have a galley kitchen so there are cabinets over the sink, they are 32in above the counter (just a small 12in tall set).

Again, step stool. The lack of space due to apartment size is why you should grab as much cabinet space as you can. Hell, I would consider doubling up the cabinets to the ceiling, but that is just me, I hate that wasted top space and I hate the greasy dust up there too!

You never hear these guys tell you to build a smaller garage/shop do you?
 
Last edited:

steaks&anvils

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An ongoing reno I'm working on has 98" ceilings . small kitchen. used 42" main upper cabinets with a 2" filler across the tops . no valance or bulkhead .
over the sink is a window so no cabinet .I put a 6" valence between the cabinets with an LED pot light in the ceiling .
need a stool to get to the top of the cabinets but a lot of storage space for a small kitchen . I don't see it as a selling deficiency . in fact everyone that has seen it thinks its a good idea.
is that open space or the inside top shelf of the cabinet?

I have open space and use it for pans, they get greasy dusty up there and i hate it. But i don't have other good space for them.
 

NUTTSGT

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Our upper cabinets go all the way to the ceiling. The bottom of the cabinet is 50" off the floor and 15" off the counter.

IMHO, too low for me. When the kitchen gets remodeled, I'll be making the upper cabinets. They will get shortened and I will be adding a bulkhead to the ceiling. It's going to get some recessed lighting above the counterspace, tired of being in a shadow. They are also going to get raised up from the countertop.

If you're limited on space, the tall upper cabinets will provide the extra space. More than likely stuff that you think you need to have but will never use, sort or like renting a storage locker.
 

p00p

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Are there any major negative setbacks to having a countertop height of 24" ? I have the clearance, I just lack kitchen space to add cabinets due to layout & sqft limitations.
 
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Viper98912

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The most important thing I learned when designing my kitchen was symmetry - the vertical cabinet lines from the top need to match the bottom. This also means that cabinets next to each other need to be the same, so don't put a row of varying width doors; if everything is 18, then go 18. This is where symmetry it makes things difficult.

As for my own personal preferences after looking at your drawing:

1) On the right hand side, I believe that's open to another area? If so, I'd still put a corner wall cabinet there. That one lonely small cabinet doesn't seem to match well? Don't forget you'll need finished sides.
2) Instead of two 18" base cabinets on the RH side, I would put a 36" cabinet with double doors. You'd be amazed at how much more room and flexibility you have with large pots and pans rather than a skinny 18" wide cabinet.
3) Where is the trash can? A built-in trash can in a cabinet is a very sleek thing
4) The wider the kitchen sink, the better (as in, a 33 or 36" sink base cabinet). I personally don't like double sinks - some people like them because you can have one clean one dirty, one wash one rinse, one soak one wash, etc, but I personally have that I can't fit large pans with handles in a double sink due to the small bowls. So one large sink for me.
5) Go full modified overlay and not traditional for the doors. Also if you choose a door with a recessed profile, make sure the drawer faces match the doors! It's ugly to see plain-faced drawer designs that don't match the doors.
6) Soft close doors and drawers are absolutely worth it and definitely bring up the kitchen
7) There's nothing wrong with having a shorter wall cabinet above the sink
8) Tall wall cabinets are worth it, so definitely go 36-39-42. If you have too much height, you can always stack a small wall cabinet on top of the wall cabinet.
9) Large/long handles are a yes
10) 18" height backsplash is standard, but I've gone down to 16" to make a larger wall cabinet fit. No one ever noticed.
11) If you have a base cabinet that just doesn't fit with the symmetry width of the doors, change that odd-sized cabinet to a horizontal drawer cabinet. I had a 33" on an end and a 3 drawer, very wide, cabinet fit perfect. Be careful if you put a horizontal drawer cabinet in the middle of a kitchen, as it may look off it not centered.
12) Any cabinet that is 12" or less is worthless. Nothing will fit in it.
13) Consider doing almost no "top" drawers in the base cabinets. In my last kitchen I pretty much only did full-door height base cabinets; it honestly looked pretty clean. BUT! I did have a 3 drawer base cabinet next to the range to hold towels and cooking utensils, the 33" wide drawer base cabinet to hold oven pans, and a wide drawer in the island to hold utensils, so there was definitely drawer space. Just don't think that you need a drawer in EVERY base cabinet though, because you don't.

I think I've said enough....to start....

But again, symmetry.
 

jar944

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Are there any major negative setbacks to having a countertop height of 24" ? I have the clearance, I just lack kitchen space to add cabinets due to layout & sqft limitations.

You want the counter 24" off the floor?
 

Viper98912

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Looking again at your drawing, starting on the left side with the base cabinets:

1) Go 36" wide for the fridge. 33" limits your fridge choices, and it's more expensive for a 33" most of the time. Yes, you pay more money for less fridge.
2) This forces your 9" wide cabinet into a 6" filler. For this, I previously used a 6" wide 5-cube cabinet that looked like little cubby holes. These cubby holes actually worked great to hold wine bottles. If it's only a 5" wide cube, you can use a 1" filler to square everything up.
3) Corner cabinet, recommending to choose lazy susan with the doors on the susan and not one of the double-hinged doors with the susan on the inside
4) 27" base cabinet for single sink...I'd try to fit bigger, but don't exactly see how, so ok
5) 18" cabinet, I recommend potentially making this 3 drawers, or potentially making this the hidden trash cabinet (it will be extremely convenient being next to the sink and the range). I think the hidden trash cabinet though is full height, so you won't have a drawer here.
5) 36" range? What kind? (Just curious)
6) 36" corner cabinet, same susan
7) Eliminate the double 18" cabinet and go with a 36" wide cabinet with double doors. Make this one have a top drawer if you need more drawer space. Due to a lack of drawers due to the lazy susans and trash cabinet, you may need to consider making this a 3-drawer cabinet

As for the wall cabinets....

1) Over the fridge, a deep cabinet as previously mentioned (and you have it drawn in there). 36" width for your 36" fridge
2) 18" wide cabinet
3) 24" corner cabinet as drawn
4) 36" double door cabinet as drawn
5) 27" odd space...the more I think about this, you may want to put a taller, no-door open space above here. I would place open shelving here for towels or other kitchen decor. You can do this with an open cabinet, or literally just shelves. Then you can make the area above the sink whatever height you want to make your faucet work, as well as give you head space and lean-in space for washing the dishes. Stick your hands underneath your wall cabinets mounted 18" above the countertop and you'll see that you probably need more space to actually use your sink.
6) 18" wide cabinet to the right of the sink
7) 36" wide hood. I would not go with a wood/cabinet hood, I would go with a modern glass/stainless hood.
8) 18" wide cabinet to the right of the range
9) Now is when this corner gets ugly...if the RH side of the picture is open to another room, you may want to consider a 45 degree or 60 degree cabinet with an open glass door pointing toward that open room. Use this for wine glasses, bourbon glasses, champange glasses, etc. Also be aware that depending on the 'front' width of this cabinet, this combination may not work well in this corner. If so, then you need to go back to considering a 24" corner wall cabinet, but then you're left with a 12" space between the corner cabinet and the hood. And there's nothing good you can do with a 12" wide gap, unless you mirror the 12" on the LH side of the hood and do shelving on both sides, but then it all goes to hell with a 6" gap on the left, and a mirror across the sink for 6" makes a 30" double cabinet that doesn't line up vertically with the dishwasher, etc etc etc. So this end piece facing the other room is really a tough call.

PS - where is the microwave going? I assume countertop?
 

jar944

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24gj.png
very close but not 100% the exact layout. Should explain what the goal is though.
As long as you are tall enough.

Average height and shorter people won't like it. The interior deck of the uppers will be 61.5-62".

My question is why, Is there something you need to fit underneath?
 

Toolfool

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I've installed over 200 kitchen packages, designed maybe 50. In your design I would not raise the wall cabinets higher. Order the cabinet above the sink three inches shorter. If the manufacturer offers custom changes, have it built eight inches deep (perfect cabinet for glasses and coffee mugs). If they don't do it, cut it down yourself, or have someone local do it. Trust me.
 

jar944

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Op I'd change out the two 18" base cabs for a 36" 3 stack drawer unit (all bases should be drawers IMHO) I'd also change both corners to lazy Susan's, but they are the Pontiac Aztec of cabinets, either you either love or hate them.
 

p00p

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As long as you are tall enough.

Average height and shorter people won't like it. The interior deck of the uppers will be 61.5-62".

My question is why, Is there something you need to fit underneath?
The common small appliances that I have, & have looked into for replacement are just tall enough to make convivence of use a problem. There are no cupboards above above the sink as the window is in that area. I don't want to move where things are placed as it'll just be another catch 22.
Would 6" more inches really be that big of a deal?
Doing just 2 shorter hanging cupboards on each side of the sink would resolve the issue, but then that would be more noticeable & likely not look right.
 

engineer2

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Not sure if it was mentioned, but most granite countertops are 3 centimeters thick just under 1-3/16") and standard Formica countertops are 1-1/2" thick. You can do what you want, but keep resale value in mind if you deviate from standard practices.
 

ddawg16

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Not sure if it was mentioned, but most granite countertops are 3 centimeters thick just under 1-3/16") and standard Formica countertops are 1-1/2" thick. You can do what you want, but keep resale value in mind if you deviate from standard practices.
Formica?

I love my quartz counter tops.....especially after I spilled a glass of red wine on them....and it wiped right up
 

p00p

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Not sure if it was mentioned, but most granite countertops are 3 centimeters thick just under 1-3/16") and standard Formica countertops are 1-1/2" thick. You can do what you want, but keep resale value in mind if you deviate from standard practices.
With how the market is & the odds of coming across the "ideal" place, if a kitchen reno was done this year, it'd likely be due for another reno by the time a move take place. Lol.
 
OP
B

branimal

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First off thanks for ALL the input. Sorry for the late response, I was away for the holidays and I'm just catching up on this thread.

Based on the input provided I am making some changes for sure. I'll list definite changes first and then deal with options I'm still undecided on.

Definite Changes
  1. Upper cabinets will be 42". Agreed on the advantages of additional storage.
  2. Upper cabinet above the sink will be 36" cabinet. They don't make a 39", so I'll have 6" of additional room.
  3. I'm going to shorten the backsplash to 18" standard.
  4. @steaks&anvils "Make sure you get a full depth over refrigerator cabinet too." -Yep I'm using a 24" deep fridge cabinet.

Undecided
  1. I like the idea of putting a filler panel above the 42" cabinets. The gap above the 42" cabinets is 16 1/2". I could fill that with a filler panel and a piece of crown. But is 16" of filler panel (less whatever the crown measures) too much? And how do you hide the seam between the filler panel and the top of the upper cabinets?
  2. @CraigStu "why no wall corner cabinet in the right corner"? Will it throw off the symmetry? The living space is an open layout.... kitchen, entryway, dining room and living room all in one space. I think putting a wall corner cabinet will cut off a bit of that open feeling. The stick-out on corner cabinet is 24" vs 12" on a normal wall cabinet.
  3. @jar944 "I'd stack a 12" on top of the 42" uppers if you are buying stock cabinets." I did this on my condo in Manhattan which I'm currently renting out. It's definitely a better look. But it get's pricy and I'm not sure my Brooklyn property warrants that sort of investment. If the filler panel idea list above (#1) doesn't look great I will consider stacking 12's on top.
  4. @Viper98912 "Where is the trash can?" Great question. I think I'm going to do aftermarket pullouts for trash cans. Here in NYC, I need to recycle paper & cans/bottles separately. That's a total of three trash cans. I'd like to put the waste can under the sink. Ideally I could fit all three under the sink, but I'm not sure that's possible. I could put the 2 recycling pullouts on the B18R at the end of the peninsula.
  5. @Viper98912 "Any cabinet that is 12" or less is worthless." Yes! I just looked and the base 9" next to the fridge doesn't come in a drawer base option. I could make that a 6" filler like you suggested and install a spice /storage pullout rack. Pictured below. That additional 3" buys me room to bump my fridge up to a 36" .
  6. Drawer bases: That leaves me with 2 locations for drawer bases. The base 18 to the right of the sink. And the base 18 on the peninsula. The other base 18 on the peninsula will most likely be used for recycling.
  7. Upper 24" corner cabinet on the left side. There are two options available. Pie cut corner and a diagnol corner. The pie cut looks like it will provide more useful storage. Pic below
  8. @Viper98912 Range - its a GE 30" slide in range I kept from my previous reno. Stainless steel. I'm installing a 30" stainless steel exhaust above that.
  9. @Viper98912 - Base corner cabinets. Yes on 36" corner cabinets. Not sure if I'm going to spend the extra money for the lazy susan. Is the lazy susan an insert I can add later on? Pics below.

Other questions / thoughts
  1. When the cabinet makers put an L at the end of the cabinet description, does that mean the hinges are on the left? E.g. W1542L
  2. Items that I'll have on the countertop: small microwave, airfryer (potentially), dish drying rack.
  3. Should my upper cabinets have a 3" gap off the exhaust hood? Or should I bump them up to the exhaust hood?
  4. Face frame style - I'm going with full face shaker style doors/drawer faces. I'm debating getting the plain shaker style vs shaker with inlay moulding. The inlay moulding will bump the entire cabinet price up by 10-15%. So base price is roughly $6000. Bumped up price is ~$6750. Pics below.

Thanks for the help!!!
 

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ludakris04

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I'd stack a 12" on top of the 42" uppers if you are buying stock cabinets. Leaves you with enough room for 5" to 6" crown at the ceiling and gives a floor to ceiling look.
This was going to be my suggestion. Our ceilings are 9' and we have 42" cabinets. We have 12" up there that I would like to fill with cabinets. I like the look of it.
 

ddawg16

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This is what was done in my other house with small limited space
8' ceilings uppers all the way up


1625865067719.png
Clean

Have you considered swapping the fridge door around so it opens the other way?

In your case, I bet it's designed so you rotate it 180 deg. Top and bottom are the same.
 

Viper98912

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First off thanks for ALL the input. Sorry for the late response, I was away for the holidays and I'm just catching up on this thread.

Based on the input provided I am making some changes for sure. I'll list definite changes first and then deal with options I'm still undecided on.

Definite Changes
  1. Upper cabinets will be 42". Agreed on the advantages of additional storage.
  2. Upper cabinet above the sink will be 36" cabinet. They don't make a 39", so I'll have 6" of additional room.
  3. I'm going to shorten the backsplash to 18" standard.
  4. @steaks&anvils "Make sure you get a full depth over refrigerator cabinet too." -Yep I'm using a 24" deep fridge cabinet.

Undecided
  1. I like the idea of putting a filler panel above the 42" cabinets. The gap above the 42" cabinets is 16 1/2". I could fill that with a filler panel and a piece of crown. But is 16" of filler panel (less whatever the crown measures) too much? And how do you hide the seam between the filler panel and the top of the upper cabinets?
  2. @CraigStu "why no wall corner cabinet in the right corner"? Will it throw off the symmetry? The living space is an open layout.... kitchen, entryway, dining room and living room all in one space. I think putting a wall corner cabinet will cut off a bit of that open feeling. The stick-out on corner cabinet is 24" vs 12" on a normal wall cabinet.
  3. @jar944 "I'd stack a 12" on top of the 42" uppers if you are buying stock cabinets." I did this on my condo in Manhattan which I'm currently renting out. It's definitely a better look. But it get's pricy and I'm not sure my Brooklyn property warrants that sort of investment. If the filler panel idea list above (#1) doesn't look great I will consider stacking 12's on top.
  4. @Viper98912 "Where is the trash can?" Great question. I think I'm going to do aftermarket pullouts for trash cans. Here in NYC, I need to recycle paper & cans/bottles separately. That's a total of three trash cans. I'd like to put the waste can under the sink. Ideally I could fit all three under the sink, but I'm not sure that's possible. I could put the 2 recycling pullouts on the B18R at the end of the peninsula.
  5. @Viper98912 "Any cabinet that is 12" or less is worthless." Yes! I just looked and the base 9" next to the fridge doesn't come in a drawer base option. I could make that a 6" filler like you suggested and install a spice /storage pullout rack. Pictured below. That additional 3" buys me room to bump my fridge up to a 36" .
  6. Drawer bases: That leaves me with 2 locations for drawer bases. The base 18 to the right of the sink. And the base 18 on the peninsula. The other base 18 on the peninsula will most likely be used for recycling.
  7. Upper 24" corner cabinet on the left side. There are two options available. Pie cut corner and a diagnol corner. The pie cut looks like it will provide more useful storage. Pic below
  8. @Viper98912 Range - its a GE 30" slide in range I kept from my previous reno. Stainless steel. I'm installing a 30" stainless steel exhaust above that.
  9. @Viper98912 - Base corner cabinets. Yes on 36" corner cabinets. Not sure if I'm going to spend the extra money for the lazy susan. Is the lazy susan an insert I can add later on? Pics below.

Other questions / thoughts
  1. When the cabinet makers put an L at the end of the cabinet description, does that mean the hinges are on the left? E.g. W1542L
  2. Items that I'll have on the countertop: small microwave, airfryer (potentially), dish drying rack.
  3. Should my upper cabinets have a 3" gap off the exhaust hood? Or should I bump them up to the exhaust hood?
  4. Face frame style - I'm going with full face shaker style doors/drawer faces. I'm debating getting the plain shaker style vs shaker with inlay moulding. The inlay moulding will bump the entire cabinet price up by 10-15%. So base price is roughly $6000. Bumped up price is ~$6750. Pics below.

Thanks for the help!!!
16.5" is a huge gap, I would not put a filler there up to the ceiling, that would not look good. Just put a crown moulding on it and it'll look good.

In regards to aftermarket trash pullout; I was much happier with my oem, well built pullout rather than the aftermarket one in my parents house from the local box store. Just saying...

A spice rack is only worthwhile when it's next to the stove, since that's where you're most likely to use spices (when cooking). But as pull out storage it should work.

I personally don't like pie cut corners, but that's just personal preference. Corners are normally low-usage stuff to me anyway.

The math doesn't add up on your 30" range. The cabinet math in your original picture adds up to using a 36" range. Check this as it'll completely change your layout if you have an additional 6"!

You can get aftermarket lazy susans, but they're not as good as original (in my opinion). I like the usefulness of the factory lazy susans that have the door built onto the susan (no pie cut doors). If this reno is for personal use, I'd go factory with door. If this is a rental reno, forget the lazy susan altogether and just do flat shelves.

I do not understand the exhaust hood gap question?

Additional shaker inlay is nice, but not sure if worth it....

Last comment - I would not do a 27" wide, 36" tall, cabinet above the sink. The 27" doors (probably a double 13.5" set) will look completely out of place compared to the rest of the doors in the kitchen that you should really consider basing on an 18" width. The symmetry of doors will look odd if they're all different widths. Leave the area above the sink as an open, non-door area.

Just my thoughts....
 
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