Kitchen flooring question

[86k10]

I'm redoing my kitchen and it had vinyl over 1/4 plywood underpayment. I pulled it out and it has 3" tongue and groove pine over 1x6 plank subfloor.

It has some squeaky spots so I wanted to pull the 3" top floor and tighten the subfloor then go with 3/4 plywood as underlayment for vinyl or 3/4 hardwood as a top floor before I install the cabinets.

I have read about screwing the 3/4 underlayment to the joist and some saying not to the joist.

Any floor guys out there that can give me some advice?

 

[86k10]

This is one of the sites that got me thinking about the underlayment not going to the joist.

Also the floor is 65 years old and only had some minor cupping under the sink area. The top floor was originally tile direct to the 3".
http://www.schluter.ca/5138.aspx

 

[59'trump]

I'm surprised none of the experts have chimed in on this one. I would definitely wait on some proper advice but I would think that screwing anything to the subfloor is a bad idea due to expanding and contracting joints that could cause buckling. The newer underlayments on the market are designed to be moisture resistant and should help reduce the creaking of the subfloor as well. By all means, wait on the pros advice. These types of jobs are worth taking the time to do right!


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[busyallthetime]

If memory serves me correctly, underlayment should not be secured to the joists. However, the hardwood should be secured to the joists when possible.

I don't recall the reasoning behind this, it's been 3 years since I installed 2200 sq ft of flooring in my house.

Check out http://www.hardwoodflooringtalk.com/forum/

 

[ddawg16]

I don't think I've ever heard the underlayment/subfloor should not be attached to the joists.

In fact, you glue and screw/nail it.

Since you want to pull it up, I'd do the 3/4" T&G plywood as you proposed. Attach it using construction adhesive and then screw. Screw is more work but you don't have to worry about a nail head trying to pop up through your vinyl flooring.

 

[mark11]

If you were doing ceramic or porcelain tile you wouldn't want to attach your underlayment to the joists, you want things decoupled. If you're putting down hardwood I don't think it would matter.

 

[duneslider]

I just want to make sure I know what you are asking before giving an answer.

You are saying you have the pine wood flooring and under that I am assuming is the 1x pine type material laid over the joists? You are planning to remove the pine wood flooring and add screws to the subfloor to eliminate squeaking. (most squeaking is wood rubbing on nails) Then you want to add a 3/4" plywood/OSB on top of the house original subfloor, then you will apply what ever finish floor you want (tile, hardwood, vinyl)?

I just want to make sure I got straight what your plan is.

If you are leaving the house original subfloor and adding essentially a second layer of subfloor then NO you do not want to screw it down into the joists and you don't want to glue the plywood down either. You also don't want the plywood joints laying directly over the joists. The Schluter article you mentioned is spot on. The Frank Woeste who co-authored the piece is a PHD P.E. at I think Virginia Tech. Really smart dude and really knows his stuff, they did a lot of research into this and that was the conclusion of their study. No matter the type of flooring you are doing, this would be the better method to follow but it would be more critical for a tile installation.

 

[86k10]

I just want to make sure I know what you are asking before giving an answer.

You are saying you have the pine wood flooring and under that I am assuming is the 1x pine type material laid over the joists? You are planning to remove the pine wood flooring and add screws to the subfloor to eliminate squeaking. (most squeaking is wood rubbing on nails) Then you want to add a 3/4" plywood/OSB on top of the house original subfloor, then you will apply what ever finish floor you want (tile, hardwood, vinyl)?

I just want to make sure I got straight what your plan is.

If you are leaving the house original subfloor and adding essentially a second layer of subfloor then NO you do not want to screw it down into the joists and you don't want to glue the plywood down either. You also don't want the plywood joints laying directly over the joists. The Schluter article you mentioned is spot on. The Frank Woeste who co-authored the piece is a PHD P.E. at I think Virginia Tech. Really smart dude and really knows his stuff, they did a lot of research into this and that was the conclusion of their study. No matter the type of flooring you are doing, this would be the better method to follow but it would be more critical for a tile installation.

Yes, I'm leaving the original 1x6 sub floor and just put some plywood down on top of it. I didn't go straight to the joist. I followed the recommendation in the link I provided. Floors are nice and quiet. The top 3" t&g was only nailed down like every 2-3 feet. It was noisy.