Kitchen Lighting Remodel

[dsaunier]

Hello folks. I need some suggestions for redoing the kitchen lighting in our recently purchased home. It was built in 1993 and came with the hideous florescent tube lights recessed under a plastic shroud with aluminum bracing. I've removed the rubbish and found the opening to be 8' long by 4' wide and 12.5" deep. I'd like to update the lighting with something that makes sense for the space - see picture. My dad and i were thinking can lights might not be good because of the 12.5" recess would give no spread. I'm open to suggestions as this is not my area of expertise.

Derek

 

[pattenp]

How about track pendant lights?

 

[dsaunier]

That's a reasonable idea. Maybe something like this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Hampton-...Lighting-Kit-EC6827ABZ/202051393?N=5yc1vZc7nd

 

[pattenp]

Yep, exactly what I was thinking.

That's a reasonable idea. Maybe something like this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Hampton-...Lighting-Kit-EC6827ABZ/202051393?N=5yc1vZc7nd

 

[dsaunier]

2,400 watts would be sufficient I would think. Might need to add a few small recessed can lights outside of the recessed area as well..

 

[alpinewhite]

I did something similar. I used can lights. Here's the thread:

Justifying the tools I buy. Bank-owned condo rehab http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=236664

 

[dsaunier]

that looks good and the lighting looks adequate. what size opening is that?

 

[Mustang51js]

I would do led recessed lights and snake a couple to the openings, close that box in and make it all one ceiling,I've also seen people put a chandelier in there.

 

[volleyball]

Right way to do it is to tear off the sheetrock and framing to raise the ceiling. Short ceilings are out. You can wire and mount cans correctly.
If you want the cheap way out, which isn't wrong, is to put cans in the lowered part. Put a hanging fixture in the center of the tall part.

 

[dsaunier]

I would do led recessed lights and snake a couple to the openings, close that box in and make it all one ceiling,I've also seen people put a chandelier in there.

I'm confused. so a few led recessed lights and "snake a couple to the openings, then close the box in"

do you mean eliminate the recess or not?

 

[alpinewhite]

that looks good and the lighting looks adequate. what size opening is that?

Opening was about 5' x 5'. Kitchen is 10' x 11'. The can lights were 5 inches. The 4 inch can lights would not have dispersed the light enough to hit the counters.


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[alpinewhite]

Right way to do it is to tear off the sheetrock and framing to raise the ceiling. Short ceilings are out.

I couldn't do it because I had ductwork running through my drop ceiling.



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[Mustang51js]

I'm confused. so a few led recessed lights and "snake a couple to the openings, then close the box in"

do you mean eliminate the recess or not?

I was saying to snake the wires if you want lights closer to the cabinets,then you could frame out the box and Sheetrock it and have more lights in there. The other option was just hanging a chandelier in there since it's up higher. If your looking for a lot of light the new led trims can't be beat,I little pricey up front but over time they will pay for themselves if you leave the lights on a lot

 

[Mustang51js]

Now that I look at it snaking prob isn't necessary since you don't want the lights right next to cabinets anyway

 

[dsaunier]

Okay, I see. Will price out a larger light fixture in center with perhaps some smaller can lights in the lower area closer to the cabinets (right above sink, etc..) versus doing 4 - 6 can lights in recessed area or the track light option.

 

[volleyball]

If you have things in the ceiling we need to know what, where and how big. With ducts, you won't be able to put cans in there.
Maybe you can relocate the ducts and still open up the ceiling though not as much.
If you don't remove the framing, a hanging fixture is the only way to avoid big shadow lines

 

[chops101]

Can lights except use more up to date cans - 3"

The 5" and 6" cans are from the 1980's, well in my latitude anyway.

I'm replacing the 6" cans in my kitchen with 3", and using dimmable LED's.

I've installed 26 (and counting) 3" cans in my new-to-me house so far.

 

[volleyball]

Small cans are for small spaces. You need to size it properly.

 

[nolimits76]

Personally I think you have 2 problems.

The first is the hideous fluorescent lighting you already identified. The second is probably the fact your ceiling height w/ the plastic shroud in-place is a whole whopping 7' or so.

Removing as much as the soffits as possible would provide you a win-win to both issues. The added height will not only modernize the space, but also make it feel and appear bigger.

I would try to do something like below. Put bigger cans in the main space. Then use the small cans on that wall of cabinets separating your kitchen from what I presume is your living room. It will add detail and some added lighting over the counters.

 

[chops101]

Small cans are for small spaces. You need to size it properly.

*Denote I stated in my latitude.

Big cans are 1980's and are an interior design faux paux from the past century in my world.

I have small cans in big places (largest 20 x 18 x 22' ceiling), and light up the rooms great.

 

[nolimits76]

...interior design faux paux...

Maybe you can explain what color "fuscia" is -- my wife tried to explain it but all I heard was "pink", to which she said I was wrong.

 

[e-tek]

AlpineWhite that turned out nice! We had a similar issue, but we sheeted the hole and put cans around and pendants over the island in middle. I don't think our ceiling ended up as low as the OPs would though...

 

[sands35]

I do a bit of lighting work now and then for consumer products. We've found that halogen bulbs have the most preferred light by consumers. "Normal" color temperature, very good CRI and bright enough.

Personally, I'd do recessed or track GU10 bulbed fixtures. The bulbs cost a bit more but they work well and are small. They dim well and don't hum when dimmed. The downside is that they are hot and you need to take care with spacing around the fixture even for IC rated fixtures.

Think about where you put them. For instance, you don't want a bulb directly over the sink. Your head will create a shadow and when you head isn't right under the bulb, the light will reflect back up to your eyes. Put them ~2-3 feet on either side of the sink. Same goes for the other common work areas around the kitchen.

 

[Mustang51js]

Any track light you put will be behind you or else you will hit them with the cabinet doors.

 

[dsaunier]

Went to Lowe's today and looked at recessed can lights for about an hour. Lighting associate who i assumed would know nothing asked if I needed help and to my surprise he actually knew what he was doing. Drew a diagram of the kitchen and he seemed to think 6 - 6" recessed LED can lights with the insulation rated basket should work fine if spaced about 2' apart and 1' from the edge of the recess (to limit shadowing). I might even add a 7th in the center. Issue is i'm looking at these double florescent housings that hold 2 - 2900 lumen bulbs and multiplying that out - 2900 x 2 per housing = 5,800 x 4 housings = 23,200 lumens. The 6' LED bulbs I'm looking at are http://www.lowes.com/pd_113539-59179-DLS02-61327D1E-WF1_0__?productId=50056907 rated at 700 lumens and way lower wattage. Guy at Lowe's says they put off a lot of light for the size and the plus with LED is no heat like the regular recessed bulbs, can also be dimmed. but doing the math 700 x 6 4,200 lumens which would give me about 1/4 of the lighting I currently have with the florescent, right?

 

[volleyball]

That will be plenty of overhead light. You may want to have countertop lights since your extra big soffits.
I would put a hanging or surface fixture in the middle.

 

[dsaunier]

it is fine right now without the above-the-countertop lights though. So don't worry about the lumens so much?

 

[volleyball]

A lot of lumens got wasted for lack of going into details. Using a satin or semi gloss paint will help a lot.
I have 10 led cans in my 12 x 28 living room and it is bright. But you may need some task light if you put the lights on the other side of the counter from where you work. They need to be on the sides of you.

 

[dsaunier]

if i position them a foot in from the edges, they will basically be similarly placed lengthwise as the current florescent ballasts. So the spread to the left and right should be the same. The spread to the eating nook and hallway will be less since the 4' length tube is reduced to a small round lighting projection area. There should be a few more dark spots or shadow areas, but if I make sure to place the cans out far enough from the edges and also include the 6 total with good bulbs, should be what I'm looking for hypothetically. Not as bright as it is now, which is glaring. Enough for reading or doing tasks that need intense enough light. Can be dimmed for night time. Right?

 

[Mustang51js]

Led are brighter than they seem, I had 6 50 watt halogen flood bulbs in my four inch recessed lights, they were about two feet apart, I swapped them out for 8watt led trims and two of the led lights were brighter than all 6 of the other ones. Best part about it was with all six on I was only using 48 watts compared to 300 watts before.

 

[arnold77]

I have examples Lighting Kitchen Remodel, and you can see the others on amazon.com

Basement Design Tips

 

[dwm]

What's your budget? Theoretically you could install four Cree CR24 LED troffers and get 16,000+ lumens of 90CRI light. I don't think you need that much in a space that size, of course.

 

[volleyball]

The florescents were designed with a diffuser in mind. Plus the bright ceiling. And those lights dim significantly after time and use. The LED's won't.
I would rip out the whole section of drywall where the lights will go and mount some cans up there with lights in them. See at daytime and night where and how many you need. It won't be hard to replace the whole section. Probably easier than opening pieces and then having to patch.
I have eyeballs at 2' from the wall over the cabinets. They light up the countertop nicely. Didn't need to use the eyeballs.
The OP may have some open space is the soffit to put in cans in there. I see the vent now and there must be ductwork but is it over the countertops? If not, I would remove it or put lights in it.
There are also led's on a rope that would work

 

[dsaunier]

budget is around $300

 

[alpinewhite]

Can lights are about $25 each. Add bulbs to that. Drywall for repairs is about $10 for a small sheet. Drywall mud is about $10. Texture spray about $8. That's it.


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[Rjoh]

"Can lights are about $25 each"

11.00 @ HD for 6" cans.

 

[suryaprabu02]

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[alpinewhite]

Any updates, OP?

 

[dsaunier]

Any updates, OP?

Funny you ask I just was getting back up to doing this since it is cool out again. Went up in attic and checked area above drywall out. Trusses and joists in some areas. I won't be able to space everything out exactly equidistant from each other but I think I can make 5 or so 6" cans fit. There is plenty of center in middle area across lengthwise but gets tricky as you move to outer areas.

 

[dsaunier]

More pics