Knife sharpeners

[Beerhippie]

If you do your trigonometry, you would see a change in the angle depending on the curvature of the blade. I trust my hands and have no issues getting a razor cutting edge. Just to maintain an edge, I often just strop with a 5K whetstone. That keeps my kitchen knives serviceable for a very long time before an official sharpening progression 1K, 2K or 3K, possibly 5K. You also avoid any “low spots” over time when sharpening across a large whetstone. It’s also easier to “thin” the knife as a kitchen knife loses height with time. A device (and I’ve tried them in the past when I was a novice sharpener) just slows me down. My wife is scared of my large collection of Japanese kitchen knives. I leave two for her personal use and intentionally leave them duller (which I think is more dangerous than a sharp knife). Or maybe she is sick and tired of me getting upset when she decides to use my Takamura to cut veggies or fruit onto a ceramic surface — kind of like taking a Ferrari off roading.

This has been beaten to death on YouTube, Blade forums and the Wicked Edge forums, and ever measurement has proven that the angle is consistent throughout the length of the blade.

Based on the width of the bevel, measured under a reticle microscope, that 11 1/2" knife above is perfectly consistent.

 

[Beerhippie]

Over-ran my edits again.

 

[JradM]

That's the guided sharpener I use too, when I use a guided sharpener. He makes these points in the video, but I'll make them too:

• you can get crazy sharp results with minimal skill (basically as good as anything, with patience).
• it's too slow to be sharpening your kitchen knives with (this is a pocket-knife sharpener).

I also have a Worksharp belt sharpener. It's a handy tool for speeding through sharpening. It's probably what I'd choose for regular kitchen-knife duties if I didn't know how to freehand sharpen.



...but I mostly freehand sharpen on diamond stones and also use a strop with diamond compound.

It takes like two minutes to do a pocket knife that way - even if it's really dull. An 8"kitchen knife, with patience, still doesn't take much more than 5 minutes.

If you have the time and inclination to learn a new skill, just grab the Sharpal diamond stone (I like the larger one), a strop and some 6 micron DMT paste. It's not that it's the pinnacle of stones, but you have to spend WAY more money to do better and it's easier to learn sharpening on a diamond stone than a whetstone.

 

[dr_clyde]

I have whetstones, a powered Worksharp, a Lansky set and the Worksharp field sharpener.

I use the powered Worksharp for most of my daily driver kitchen knives. Its fast, works well and doesn't take much fuss to use. The whetstones are more work, for sure, but can get a nicer edge if I want to take the time.

I keep the field sharpener in my toolbox at work and use it to tune up my pocket knife. It also works well and doesn't take more than a couple strokes to get the edge back to as sharp as I need it to be.

I have ground more than my fair share of cutting tools in the machine shop, which helps. An understanding of cutting angles, bevels, reliefs and basic geometry of cutting tools is pretty important if you want to sharpen tools.

I have a nice arsenal of stones, wheels and tools for sharpening drills, lathe toolbits and other hand tools. I'd like to get a tool and cutter grinder so I don't have to drive over to my buddy's shop and use his when I want to sharpen my countersinks haha. Knives are a pretty simple tool, just the one edge and it doesn't have to spin balanced or remove metal and leave a nice finish so I typically don't think too hard about it.

 

[bkdc]

Any basic math will tell you otherwise. I don’t know what microscopic inaccurate measurements they are making but I know how to do math. The knife blade is in a fixed plane, and the sharpening stone makes an angle against the vertical blade. The angle made by the plane of the sharpening stone insert and the plane of the blade does not stay constant along the length of the blade.

This is easy to imagine with an absurd mental exercise.

Imagine a 10 foot long kitchen knife. Now… the Wicked edge won’t reach 5 feet in either direction, but this is a mental exercise. The angle of sharening at the tip of the knife and near the heel will be far far more acute than at the point closest to the clamp.

 

[Beerhippie]

Any basic math will tell you otherwise. I don’t know what microscopic inaccurate measurements they are making but I know how to do math. The knife blade is in a fixed plane, and the sharpening stone makes an angle against the vertical blade. The angle made by the plane of the sharpening stone insert and the plane of the blade does not stay constant along the length of the blade.

This is easy to imagine with an absurd mental exercise.

Imagine a 10 foot long kitchen knife. Now… the Wicked edge won’t reach 5 feet in either direction, but this is a mental exercise. The angle of sharening at the tip of the knife and near the heel will be far far more acute than at the point closest to the clamp.

 

[JradM]

Any basic math will tell you otherwise. I don’t know what microscopic inaccurate measurements they are making but I know how to do math. The knife blade is in a fixed plane, and the sharpening stone makes an angle against the vertical blade. The angle made by the plane of the sharpening stone insert and the plane of the blade does not stay constant along the length of the blade.

This is easy to imagine with an absurd mental exercise.

Imagine a 10 foot long kitchen knife. Now… the Wicked edge won’t reach 5 feet in either direction, but this is a mental exercise. The angle of sharening at the tip of the knife and near the heel will be far far more acute than at the point closest to the clamp.

I see your basic math and raise you:

 

[bkdc]

The sharpening angle changes because the shape of the blade changes.

 

[bkdc]

I see your basic math and raise you:

Try clamping your Mexican knife by the heel of the blade. Let me know how the blade near the curved tip looks after a round of the Wicked Edge.

 

[Firebrick43]

My 11 1/2" blade Mexican knife would disagree.

It does take some creativity to support a longer blade in that tiny vise:



or just an old Toyota scissors jack.

Less quality issues compared to a Honda jack?

 

[Beerhippie]

Try clamping your Mexican knife by the heel of the blade. Let me know how the blade near the curved tip looks after a round of the Wicked Edge.

To demonstrate that I don't know how to use my tools?

 

[Beerhippie]

Less quality issues compared to a Honda jack?

I'm not sure why, but it seems all the scissors jacks I find at yard sales are Toyota.

 

[bkdc]

When sharpening a knife with a curved tip on a Wicked Edge, you'll need to adjust the blade's position in the vise to ensure a consistent bevel angle across the entire blade, including the tip.

Here's a breakdown of how to achieve this:

1. Understand the Concept:

• Consistent Bevel:
  The goal is to maintain a consistent bevel angle from the heel to the tip, even with a curved blade.
• Blade Position:
  The position of the blade in the vise significantly impacts the angle of contact between the stone and the blade.
• Curvature Impact:
  A curved blade will have a different angle at the tip compared to the heel, so you need to account for that.
  

2. Finding the Sweet Spot:

• Mark the Bevel: Use a marker to color in the bevel on both sides of the blade.
  
  
• Initial Angle: Set the angle to what you believe to be the factory angle.
  
  
• Observe Stone Contact: Sharpen the blade with a fine grit stone and observe where the marker is being removed.
  
  
• Adjust Blade Position:
  • Tip Contact: If the stone is contacting the blade too high on the bevel (near the tip), move the tip of the blade closer to the clamp (towards the back of the vise).
    
    
  • Heel Contact: If the stone is contacting the blade too low on the bevel (near the heel), move the tip of the blade further from the clamp (towards the front of the vise).
    
• Repeat: Continue adjusting the blade position and sharpening until you achieve a consistent bevel across the entire blade.
  

 

[Beerhippie]

When sharpening a knife with a curved tip on a Wicked Edge, you'll need to adjust the blade's position in the vise to ensure a consistent bevel angle across the entire blade, including the tip.

Here's a breakdown of how to achieve this:

1. Understand the Concept:

• Consistent Bevel:
  The goal is to maintain a consistent bevel angle from the heel to the tip, even with a curved blade.
• Blade Position:
  The position of the blade in the vise significantly impacts the angle of contact between the stone and the blade.
• Curvature Impact:
  A curved blade will have a different angle at the tip compared to the heel, so you need to account for that.

2. Finding the Sweet Spot:

• Mark the Bevel: Use a marker to color in the bevel on both sides of the blade.
  
  
• Initial Angle: Set the angle to what you believe to be the factory angle.
  
  
• Observe Stone Contact: Sharpen the blade with a fine grit stone and observe where the marker is being removed.
  
  
• Adjust Blade Position:
  • Tip Contact: If the stone is contacting the blade too high on the bevel (near the tip), move the tip of the blade closer to the clamp (towards the back of the vise).
    
    
  • Heel Contact: If the stone is contacting the blade too low on the bevel (near the heel), move the tip of the blade further from the clamp (towards the front of the vise).
• Repeat: Continue adjusting the blade position and sharpening until you achieve a consistent bevel across the entire blade.

And... WE has devices that allow you to repeatably locate the knife in the clamp without having to go through all that rigamarole every time. You go through the above procedures ONCE, record the location and then it's easy next time... and the time after that.

Here's a little sample of my log:



Additionally, I take a picture of each knife properly mounted once I have it where I want it.

 

[bkdc]

I have memories of an inconsistent bevel across the length of a long chef’s knife in the past using an Edge Pro (same concept but different device). This was very noticeable on the curved tip of a German/European shape knife but not as noticeable on a Japanese contour knife as the tip does not curve up as aggressively. As the kitchen knives were all made of hard steel (HRC60 and sometimes up to 64ish), I was aiming for somewhere between 12 to 16 degrees. This would leave a more visible bevel and an obvious visible bevel difference near the curved tip. The bevel does not stay consistent along the length of any curved blade.

 

[niget2002]

I use a 1" wide belt sander as well. I bought an angle jig that attaches to the platen and it makes it very fast and easy.

Same

 

[Wiz02]

As someone who hasn't learned how to effectively sharpen a knife or a drill bit despite spending a lifetime using tools, is there a knife sharpening tool that I can buy that will improve the edge of dull knives?

I'm not looking for ultimate sharpness, but nearly everything I've tried has made the edge duller. (Except for a chisel holder that I managed to setup and restored the edge of a chisel using a bench grinder).

I don't have the patience, eyesight or coordination to invest in learning from scratch, my bar is low but I would like some advice that is not buy a book or watch a video and use a stone or a steel. That won't work for me at this point in life.

Thoughts?

 

[Beerhippie]

As someone who hasn't learned how to effectively sharpen a knife or a drill bit despite spending a lifetime using tools, is there a knife sharpening tool that I can buy that will improve the edge of dull knives?

I'm not looking for ultimate sharpness, but nearly everything I've tried has made the edge duller. (Except for a chisel holder that I managed to setup and restored the edge of a chisel using a bench grinder).

I don't have the patience, eyesight or coordination to invest in learning from scratch, my bar is low but I would like some advice that is not buy a book or watch a video and use a stone or a steel. That won't work for me at this point in life.

Thoughts?

As above, your best bet is probably the Worksharp KO Elite II. Seems by far the best bang for the buck.

 

[bulletpruf]

As above, your best bet is probably the Worksharp KO Elite II. Seems by far the best bang for the buck.

Agreed. I'm comfortable using a whetstone to sharpen, but these days I don't have the time or energy. The Worksharp KO Elite II is fast and simple.

 

[Firebrick43]

As someone who hasn't learned how to effectively sharpen a knife or a drill bit despite spending a lifetime using tools, is there a knife sharpening tool that I can buy that will improve the edge of dull knives?

I'm not looking for ultimate sharpness, but nearly everything I've tried has made the edge duller. (Except for a chisel holder that I managed to setup and restored the edge of a chisel using a bench grinder).

I don't have the patience, eyesight or coordination to invest in learning from scratch, my bar is low but I would like some advice that is not buy a book or watch a video and use a stone or a steel. That won't work for me at this point in life.

Thoughts?

I personally would look at post 123 and follow @JradM advice on the sharpal stone. I have tried most of the systems and once I really learned its so liberating how fast and easy it is. The other systems work by especially things like the lansky and wicked system are insanely slow. The KO belt sharpener is quite a bit faster but its not compared to a dual diamond stone and strop setup like the sharpal.

The holder the sharpal comes with is especially important part of the equation. I didn't realize how much bumping your hands into the table/bench made free hand sharpening harder. The holder keeps that from happening. I even made my strop out of mdf the exact same size to fit it.

The other thing that really helps you learn to hand sharpen with the sharpal is its little magnetic angle guide it comes with. It attaches to the edge of the stone and doen't hold the blade at all but before you start to stroke the knife edge down the stone you set it on it to make sure your holding consistent angles.

Its so fast and easy once you learn that angle control. My wustoff kitchen knives used to get pretty dull and then it was a few hour session to sharpen them all. Now its 3 min to touch up a knife and that is mostly time walking to the basement. Maybe i should get a second set for the kitchen itself

 

[Wiz02]

I personally would look at post 123 and follow @JradM advice on the sharpal stone. I have tried most of the systems and once I really learned its so liberating how fast and easy it is. The other systems work by especially things like the lansky and wicked system are insanely slow. The KO belt sharpener is quite a bit faster but its not compared to a dual diamond stone and strop setup like the sharpal.

The holder the sharpal comes with is especially important part of the equation. I didn't realize how much bumping your hands into the table/bench made free hand sharpening harder. The holder keeps that from happening. I even made my strop out of mdf the exact same size to fit it.

The other thing that really helps you learn to hand sharpen with the sharpal is its little magnetic angle guide it comes with. It attaches to the edge of the stone and doen't hold the blade at all but before you start to stroke the knife edge down the stone you set it on it to make sure your holding consistent angles.

Its so fast and easy once you learn that angle control. My wustoff kitchen knives used to get pretty dull and then it was a few hour session to sharpen them all. Now its 3 min to touch up a knife and that is mostly time walking to the basement. Maybe i should get a second set for the kitchen itself

Thanks, I believe that angle control (or more precisely, lack thereof) is the root cause of my inability to sharpen knives.

 

[Ohio Andy]

Thanks, I believe that angle control (or more precisely, lack thereof) is the root cause of my inability to sharpen knives.

Spyderco sharpmaker because it is easy to hold the knife vertical to pretty easy to use and keep something sharp. Bag for reprofiling even with the diamond rods but I have done it.

Fixed angle system like Hapstone. Very nice, effective, but slowish.

Worksharp belt knife sharpener. Pretty easy and fast. Anything fast can cause damage great though. Love mine.

I own and use all of these. I also free hand on Stones

 

[JradM]

Spyderco sharpmaker because it is easy to hold the knife vertical to pretty easy to use and keep something sharp. Bag for reprofiling even with the diamond rods but I have done it.

Fixed angle system like Hapstone. Very nice, effective, but slowish.

Worksharp belt knife sharpener. Pretty easy and fast. Anything fast can cause damage great though. Love mine.

I own and use all of these. I also free hand on Stones

I agree with this advice, even though I didn't list the Sharpmaker in my recommendations.

It's a simple and easy-to-use device to get good results and has the benefit of handling any size knife. Just make sure you form a burr on one side, then do the next to make sure you're actually apexing the edge. There's a temptation to just go back and forth - which would work, but you'd be guessing about when it's done.

The Sharpmaker seems like an excellent choice for un-powered kitchen knife sharpening.

"Learn to freehand sharpen" is absolutely great advice, but I fully recognize that some people just won't. My mom for example, would have neither interest nor aptitude. At my house, there's just a diamond stone in the kitchen drawer and I can sharpen even a chipped knife in two or three minutes but I would never suggest my mom do the same.

A lot of people don't seem to realize just how dull their knives are either, especially kitchen knives. Given the skinny geometry of most kitchen knives and the soft nature of most foods, even a knife without any edge left whatsoever can shop and slice things. It's just more exciting to do those same things with a sharp tool.