The HF version is live online; https://www.harborfreight.com/colle...just-push-button-slip-joint-pliers-70310.html
Knipex Twin Grip
- Thread starter Dave455
- Start date
jack stand
Well-known member
This cracks me up! - Sadly
Nothing in this post is accurate.
In the SawStop suit, SS definitely won. Bosch had to shelve their design and couldn't sell it, at least in the US. I forget what kind of international patent coverage the guy at SS had, but he was a patent attorney before he founded SS.
I haven't seen the B&D suit you're referring to, but it's extremely hard to claim colors as trade-dress. Possible, but hard. I'll go back and look at some point, but I strongly doubt B&D "won". Lincoln also sued HF on similar grounds, and got absolutely nowhere.
There was an extensive thread here on the Snap On vs. HF. I'd point you to this post - I'd looked up and read the case file. Net: SO didn't "win" anything at all in any sense of the word other than a strange lingering notion on the internet that because they sued HF they won. The judge pretty much slapped Snap On down and strongly suggested they settle - their case was not only extremely weak on the merits but also very-poorly constructed. My guess is the reason the settlement was private was they agreed to cover HF's legal costs or similar. HF continued to operate in all respects as before with the Daytona jack.
There are a lot of very-specific laws surrounding patents, copyrights and trademarks. HF is pretty clearly careful about not infringing. I'd note that patents expire very specifically so that intellectual property can be more-broadly available to the public, which encourages competition and better prices for the public. What is happening with HF and these products is literally the system performing as designed.
Do I think HF should have changed the ID on the Pliers Wrench? Absolutely. Are they infringing on any intellectual property? No. (at least as best I can tell. I'm not an attorney, but have been tortured by them many times over the years).
The design change (facings to accept soft jaw covers) you're talking about with Knipex did not extend their patent coverage. It expired with all the rest. The Icon Pliers Wrench is kind of a hybrid between the old and new Knipex designs. FWIW, I tried the soft jaw covers from my Knipex pair on the icon pair. They didn't nearly fit.
I got the LN46ACF Snap On "Talon Grips" and the Knipex "Twin Grips" on the same day and compared them.
The Talons weren't doing much on some screws I drove into a scrap piece of wood and lopped the heads off with the grinder. The Twin Grips were immediately effective.
The Talons are a go-to for car stuff, where the TwinGrips are in the home box.
I'll grab a pair of the Icons and stick them in my travel bag.
The Talons weren't doing much on some screws I drove into a scrap piece of wood and lopped the heads off with the grinder. The Twin Grips were immediately effective.
The Talons are a go-to for car stuff, where the TwinGrips are in the home box.
I'll grab a pair of the Icons and stick them in my travel bag.
neophyte
Well-known member
The Sap-On Talon Grips fon’t have the inline screw gripping serrations like the TwinGrip and various Japanese screw pliers have.
neophyte
Well-known member
Concerning color scheme Trademarks.
Black Decker, 26 F. Supp. 2d 834 | Casetext Search + Citator
Read Black Decker, 26 F. Supp. 2d 834, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database
casetext.com
Maybe I’m wrong about the lawsuit with Harbor Freight, but I remember HF offering tools in a yellow & black color scheme at one point, and stopping.
It might be too old to find easily in the internet.
Channellock also has the particular blue color of their grips trademarked.
Channellock scours globe to defend trademark tools
Channellock Inc. apparently has won the war, but it still must fight the occasional battle, according to company officials.Those battles are over registered U.S. trademark infringement — particularly on its
Personally, I feel trademarking specific colors is a bit restrictive, but it is a thing.
Apparently, “Tiffany Blue” is also trademarked.
Attachments
I have multiple Engineer screw pliers and the Knipex Twin Grip. The jaw serrations on the TG are holding up much better than the Engineer, which have seen little use, and it's all been on the typical soft phillips head screws that tend to strip out- what they're designed for.
Since the Engineers were brought up, which I also have, here's the Merrys. I haven't used the Merrys for screw extraction yet though. Their teeth are a lot more coarse so to speak so I assume might not work good for smaller screws. I use my Engineers for the smaller stuff.
To be honest I could live without the em but I love the look of the smooth rounded over profile & just to have to complete my Merry pliers "collection". They are the only ones I really don't use out of the bunch.
To be honest I could live without the em but I love the look of the smooth rounded over profile & just to have to complete my Merry pliers "collection". They are the only ones I really don't use out of the bunch.
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Concerning color scheme Trademarks.
Black Decker, 26 F. Supp. 2d 834 | Casetext Search + Citator
Read Black Decker, 26 F. Supp. 2d 834, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal databasecasetext.com
Maybe I’m wrong about the lawsuit with Harbor Freight, but I remember HF offering tools in a yellow & black color scheme at one point, and stopping.
It might be too old to find easily in the internet.
Channellock also has the particular blue color of their grips trademarked.
Channellock scours globe to defend trademark tools
Channellock Inc. apparently has won the war, but it still must fight the occasional battle, according to company officials.Those battles are over registered U.S. trademark infringement — particularly on itswww.meadvilletribune.com
Personally, I feel trademarking specific colors is a bit restrictive, but it is a thing.
Apparently, “Tiffany Blue” is also trademarked.
I knew that CL had the blue grip color trademarked, but...
Channellock spends about $100,000 per year on protecting its intellectual property, DeArment said.
Instead of spending $100k protecting the "IP" of its grip color, they should hire a mechanical designer and actually make new plier designs; instead of just selling 98% of the same **** they've been selling for decades. Or even just 90% copy the Snap On specialty designs and use alloy steel. Real rocket science here....
webscrounger
Well-known member
The HF version must be better. According to the specs, it's made of a special new 'High carbon allow steel'.
Again, I'm not an attorney, but have a more-than-casual knowledge on the topic.Concerning color scheme Trademarks.
Black Decker, 26 F. Supp. 2d 834 | Casetext Search + Citator
Read Black Decker, 26 F. Supp. 2d 834, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal databasecasetext.com
Maybe I’m wrong about the lawsuit with Harbor Freight, but I remember HF offering tools in a yellow & black color scheme at one point, and stopping.
It might be too old to find easily in the internet.
Channellock also has the particular blue color of their grips trademarked.
Channellock scours globe to defend trademark tools
Channellock Inc. apparently has won the war, but it still must fight the occasional battle, according to company officials.Those battles are over registered U.S. trademark infringement — particularly on its
Personally, I feel trademarking specific colors is a bit restrictive, but it is a thing.
Apparently, “Tiffany Blue” is also trademarked.
I started getting a headache scanning the DeWalt suit, but it appears (A) it had nothing to do with HF, and (B) the companies they were suing copied more than just their colors.
Tiffany has definitely got trade dress coverage on "Tiffany Blue" but things like that wind up being pretty narrow. In their case, they literally created a specific shade of blue to protect as theirs. I don't know for a fact, but I kinda doubt ChannelLock has any particular coverage on "their" color of blue. But who knows. I honestly think it is silly to try to hang your hat on a color.
$100K isn't a lot, either.
And I have zero love for Channel Lock - I gave all mine to Habitat when I got my Knipex stuff.
I'm aware. I just thought it was funny that they are both described as "slip-joint" pliers, but incredibly different in application/uses.
I got a set of these off the MATCO truck a few weeks ago and holy cow. I love them. just a few days ago I use them to pull out a roll pin that was still 3/4 of the way in. I use them all the time to pull out cotter pins I just grabb the loop end and just yank. the grip strength on them allows me to pull out the whole cotter pin Usually in one pull.
My vote is return the Vampliers & get the favorite flavor(s) from Engineer. Vampliers are just rebranded higher priced Engineers. Even the grips on Vampliers have the Engineer name molded in them. Well unless one prefers to have the red grips.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
It's amazing how people can vary so much in their preferences. I actually prefer the textured grip of the Knipex over the typical smooth vinyl.
Snap-on has had a version of the textured grip for many years now and I really like their grips.
Hmm the Twin Grips are 25€ here. Never saw the HF version but I'd always rather pay the ~5€ extra for the genuine deal. Though I assume the Knipex is much more pricey in the US.
bcradio
Well-known member
Knipex is about $40 here, which is way more. If it were roughly the same cost, I'd go Knipex all day.
So, how do the Merrys do on nose hairs?
Not as well but they do fit the nostrils better.
Knipex Twin Grips are currently $36 on Amazon. C'mon. Is it really worth it to save $16 on the HF version vs supporting the company that actually INNOVATES and designs new ****????? And is proven in quality and made in Germany? I know a lot of people will say no, I buy the cheapest **** I can, and that's fine; but it's worth it to me to support a company that actually employs engineers and designers and develops new products instead of just copies.
neophyte
Well-known member
It depends on whether you need a bunch of tools because you’re starting out.
It also may depend on how you use the tools and were.
If your tools have a high probability of getting stolen by meth addicts, you probably choose to save the money.
cherrybomb
Well-known member
Good one!!! Your going to get someone in trouble!
Knipex blows to warranty. You have to pay to mail it to them, and they can decline the warranty. Harbor Freight you get 95% of the same tool and if something happens, you can walk in and out with a replacement.
Might be pointless posting this but hopefully someone here snags it. Knipex Twingrip is $27.00 new right now, only 1 left (seller Mr.Tools, ships from Amz).
I purchased my second pair last Sept for $25.80 new. These still fluctuate in price quite often on Amazon as well as available as AWDs.
EDIT: And n/m, it's gone, that was quick!
I purchased my second pair last Sept for $25.80 new. These still fluctuate in price quite often on Amazon as well as available as AWDs.
EDIT: And n/m, it's gone, that was quick!
Patents do expire.
Don't be like me with the infamous "counterfeit" AutoZone Duralast screwdriver (Who the F is going to spend time making a fake Duralast screwdriver?) I still find it difficult to visit the store.
Gas pliers had the same "Screw gripper" tip design, more than 80 years ago.
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Why? They do have new pliers designs. Their oldest design (nut buster pliers) is their best. They should use that money to hire some guys to polish their pliers. They used to be beautiful, but now they look uglier than my neighbors half sister (which also happens to be his grandmother, and aunt).
Goop, another liquid hand cleaner, does the same. I browse ReStore shops and often find good serviceable tools with grease-marked handles, especially with a plastic coating. The liquid hand cleaner really works as Wamsutta says above.
The cleaner also works, though less thoroughly, on wood handles for hammers and other tools. I suspect it's because grease can soak into the wood's grain.