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Ko-Ken releasing 72 tooth ratchets

Formerjeeper

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Just saw an email about new Ko-ken 72t ratchets, starting with 3/8 drive Zeal.

"The all new Ko-ken 72 tooth Z-Series Ratchets

Ko-ken ratchets are known for their very low backlash, small head sizes, and high torque ranges. We designed the new 72 tooth ratchet without compromising on our traditional strengths. The patented design of the 72T combines the low backlash, small size, and has a 10% higher torque limit in comparison to the 36 tooth ratchet. The legacy 36 tooth ratchets move 10°/click. The new 72 tooth ratchets move 5°/clicK.

The design changes include moving from the single pawl of the 36 tooth design to the patented dual pawl of the 72 tooth design. The dual pawl 72 tooth design utilizes a single spring. We took four years of testing to perfect the low spring pressure needed to maintain Ko-ken's hallmark low-torque backlash. The finer 72 teeth design creates more surface area contact with the gear; thus, it has a 10% higher torque upper limit.

The 72T is being released in the Z-Series 3/8" ratchets only in 2021. We will be releasing the 72T in ¼" and ½" sizes, without compromising the body sizes and low backlash as our testing allows. Look for more new product releases in 2022."

Link to ALL 3/8" Z ratchets (only some on this page are new 72t): https://palmac.net/shop-by-brand/koken-usa/z-series/3-8-sockets/ratchets/

Link to 72t overview video:

Looking forward to getting hands on one to try out.
 
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measuredtwice

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https://palmac.net/koken-z-series-3726z-280-72t-flexible-ratchet-reversible-3-8-sq-dr/

How does this model compare with the equivalent Snap-On dual 80 pricing in the USA?

Snap-On defaults to UK £ when I try to look it up

The 10 3/8 FHF80A is $151.50 on the Snap-On website and the 3726z-280-72t is $100.18 on the Palmac website.

I wouldn't really call them equivalent though. The z series is more compact.
You might compare the Z series to the Snap-On 3/8 in a 1/4 body ratchets --that would be a bit less money. But neither is an apples to apples comparison. Also, many of the people buying Snap-On are getting it from a truck that stops at their place of business. I think there's a truck in California that sells Koken but that's uncommon.
 

richfinn

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Or if you live in the U.S. and work on European vehicles, like my wife's Saab! I never realized the value of compact tools until I started doing serious work on it.

True enough, some of the small Diesel hatchbacks we have over here are an absolute nightmare to work on!!

What kind of Saab does she drive??
 

GForceJunky

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How does Ko-Ken compare to Nepros? Been contemplating trying out one of these brands.

Also, any word on if they're planning to release a version of this ratchet with a different handle? I think these may be the ugliest ratchets I've ever seen. I know it's all about function over form but man, didn't think a ratchet could look so bad.
 

measuredtwice

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How does Ko-Ken compare to Nepros? Been contemplating trying out one of these brands.

Also, any word on if they're planning to release a version of this ratchet with a different handle? I think these may be the ugliest ratchets I've ever seen. I know it's all about function over form but man, didn't think a ratchet could look so bad.

Compare how? Price?

The Nepros NBR390F 3/8"sq. 90-Tooth Gear Flex-Head Ratchet is $162.00

https://www.nepros.net/?cat=2&grp=9&sub=35

Compared to these prices for Koken and Snap-On.

The 10 3/8 FHF80A is $151.50 on the Snap-On website and the 3726z-280-72t is $100.18 on the Palmac website.

I wouldn't really call them equivalent though. The z series is more compact.
You might compare the Z series to the Snap-On 3/8 in a 1/4 body ratchets --that would be a bit less money. But neither is an apples to apples comparison. Also, many of the people buying Snap-On are getting it from a truck that stops at their place of business. I think there's a truck in California that sells Koken but that's uncommon.

There are no other handle options for the Koken Z-series. Their regular line has 3 handle options: smooth chrome, knurled chrome, and rubber handle.
 

noid

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How does Ko-Ken compare to Nepros? Been contemplating trying out one of these brands.

Also, any word on if they're planning to release a version of this ratchet with a different handle? I think these may be the ugliest ratchets I've ever seen. I know it's all about function over form but man, didn't think a ratchet could look so bad.

They are both Japanese, that is about it.

Nepros is the fancy arm of KTC, while Koken is your quintessential Japanese specialty company hyper focusing on developing one thing (socketry).

One is public (KTC) and one is private (Koken), one cares deeply about fit and finish and the other about function.

Koken advertises things like back drag, tolerances, patented improvements, and so on. Nepros advertises things like the depth of chrome, fit and finish, and visual aesthetic.

Both are quality tools.
 

richfinn

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And we only wish we could get those small diesels over here!



2006 9-5 Aero wagon (you call them estates, I believe.)

Yep, Estate Cars or in the old days of coach built bodies "Shooting Breaks"

A friend of mine has a really cool Saab with a v6 twin turbo and AWD, you can still get the service parts via GM/Opel/Vauxhall dealers mostly
 

Ralf11

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1. How does Ko-ken do the flex joint? Does it lock, or does it stay tight?

2. Has anybody compared the back-drag of this new Ko-ken with the similar Nepros?
 

GForceJunky

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Compare how? Price?

The Nepros NBR390F 3/8"sq. 90-Tooth Gear Flex-Head Ratchet is $162.00

https://www.nepros.net/?cat=2&grp=9&sub=35

Compared to these prices for Koken and Snap-On.



There are no other handle options for the Koken Z-series. Their regular line has 3 handle options: smooth chrome, knurled chrome, and rubber handle.

They are both Japanese, that is about it.

Nepros is the fancy arm of KTC, while Koken is your quintessential Japanese specialty company hyper focusing on developing one thing (socketry).

One is public (KTC) and one is private (Koken), one cares deeply about fit and finish and the other about function.

Koken advertises things like back drag, tolerances, patented improvements, and so on. Nepros advertises things like the depth of chrome, fit and finish, and visual aesthetic.

Both are quality tools.

They don't compare. Two completely different design philosophies.

Thanks for the feedback!

Cost and finish aside, assuming a decent quality finish or better from both, would you guys consider both of these lifetime/heirloom quality a la SK, Snap-On, and plenty of other makes? And from a functional perspective, would you consider one obviously better than the other? I care about function more than anything as my tools get used. I take care of them but I don't work out of a clean room with padded floors on equipment that is always kept spotless, so they'll be exposed to everything life throws at me.

From my reading, it seems like both offer great durability but the fit & finish, and overall appearance of the Nepros ratchets is next level. How does Nepros do compared to Ko-Ken for backdrag? Do people tend to find one brand more comfortable in the hand than the other? Also, what's the warranty process like for either brand, assuming we could get warranty coverage in the US or Canada.

If we're talking US brands, is it kinda like Proto vs Snap-On?
 

richfinn

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Thanks for the feedback!

Cost and finish aside, assuming a decent quality finish or better from both, would you guys consider both of these lifetime/heirloom quality a la SK, Snap-On, and plenty of other makes? And from a functional perspective, would you consider one obviously better than the other? I care about function more than anything as my tools get used. I take care of them but I don't work out of a clean room with padded floors on equipment that is always kept spotless, so they'll be exposed to everything life throws at me.

From my reading, it seems like both offer great durability but the fit & finish, and overall appearance of the Nepros ratchets is next level. How does Nepros do compared to Ko-Ken for backdrag? Do people tend to find one brand more comfortable in the hand than the other? Also, what's the warranty process like for either brand, assuming we could get warranty coverage in the US or Canada.

If we're talking US brands, is it kinda like Proto vs Snap-On?

No experience of Nepros, but my Ko-Ken stuff is excellent quality and I have a fair bit of Snap-On to compare it with. I gets used everyday too!!
 

noid

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Thanks for the feedback!

Cost and finish aside, assuming a decent quality finish or better from both, would you guys consider both of these lifetime/heirloom quality a la SK, Snap-On, and plenty of other makes? And from a functional perspective, would you consider one obviously better than the other? I care about function more than anything as my tools get used. I take care of them but I don't work out of a clean room with padded floors on equipment that is always kept spotless, so they'll be exposed to everything life throws at me.

From my reading, it seems like both offer great durability but the fit & finish, and overall appearance of the Nepros ratchets is next level. How does Nepros do compared to Ko-Ken for backdrag? Do people tend to find one brand more comfortable in the hand than the other? Also, what's the warranty process like for either brand, assuming we could get warranty coverage in the US or Canada.

If we're talking US brands, is it kinda like Proto vs Snap-On?

Its hard to draw parallels considering the philosophies differ as much between Japan/USA as they do between Nepro/Koken.

Generally speaking, the heirloom feeling of a brand like snap-on/mac/matco is in the marketing. At the end of the day, as a public company, reducing cost in production and improving margin via marketing yields the greatest returns.

This is further exacerbated by the fact that some brands like Proto/Mac/Stanley are all the same parent company and are therefore made in the same factory, just sold at different price points.

If you watch of a video of a NA tool factory you will notice productivity (speed) is of the essence; SO produces over 3.5 million ratchets/year.

This is precisely where Japanese philosophy differs; in the case of Koken, being private, its not about productivity, its about reputation and they will spend 4 years going from 36 to 72 tooth (like in this case), to get it just right. Zero compromise on backdrag (1.9cNm to 1.9cNm), zero compromise on size (exact same external dimensions), and zero compromise on strength (15% increase). The major difference is that they will actually tell you the exact limit and tolerance they are working too, good luck getting that from any North American company.

In the case of Nepros, its a matter of commitment. In Japanese culture, there is rarely a circumstance where something is purely a marketing gimick. When they say that the tool will be flawless they mean it, and you can believe that every employee feels it. Anything less would be dishonorable.

Being in Japan is like being in a different world when it comes to the average expectation of quality and service. Once covid restrictions lift, I recommend anyone who hasnt visited to do so.

I would forget about warranty, it will be more hassle than its worth.
 
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richfinn

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Its hard to draw parallels considering the philosophies differ as much between Japan/USA as they do between Nepro/Koken.

Generally speaking, the heirloom feeling of a brand like snap-on/mac/matco is in the marketing. At the end of the day, as a public company, reducing cost in production and improving margin via marketing yields the greatest returns.

This is further exacerbated by the fact that some brands like Proto/Mac/Stanley are all the same parent company and are therefore made in the same factory, just sold at different price points.

If you watch of a video of a NA tool factory you will notice productivity (speed) is of the essence; SO produces over 3.5 million ratchets/year.

This is precisely where Japanese philosophy differs; in the case of Koken, being private, its not about productivity, its about reputation and they will spend 4 years going from 36 to 72 tooth (like in this case), to get it just right. Zero compromise on backdrag (1.9cNm to 1.9cNm), zero compromise on size (exact same external dimensions), and zero compromise on strength (15% increase). The major difference is that they will actually tell you the exact limit and tolerance they are working too, good luck getting that from any North American company.

In the case of Nepros, its a matter of commitment. In Japanese culture, there is rarely a circumstance where something is purely a marketing gimick. When they say that the tool will be flawless they mean it, and you can believe that every employee feels it. Anything less would be dishonorable.

Being in Japan is like being in a different world when it comes to the average expectation of quality and service. Once covid restrictions lift, I recommend anyone who hasnt visited to do so.

I would forget about warranty, it will be more hassle than its worth.

I never worry about warranty on tools, if it breaks it's not for me!!
 

GrantCee

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Its hard to draw parallels considering the philosophies differ as much between Japan/USA as they do between Nepro/Koken.

Generally speaking, the heirloom feeling of a brand like snap-on/mac/matco is in the marketing. At the end of the day, as a public company, reducing cost in production and improving margin via marketing yields the greatest returns.

This is further exacerbated by the fact that some brands like Proto/Mac/Stanley are all the same parent company and are therefore made in the same factory, just sold at different price points.

If you watch of a video of a NA tool factory you will notice productivity (speed) is of the essence; SO produces over 3.5 million ratchets/year.

This is precisely where Japanese philosophy differs; in the case of Koken, being private, its not about productivity, its about reputation and they will spend 4 years going from 36 to 72 tooth (like in this case), to get it just right. Zero compromise on backdrag (1.9cNm to 1.9cNm), zero compromise on size (exact same external dimensions), and zero compromise on strength (15% increase). The major difference is that they will actually tell you the exact limit and tolerance they are working too, good luck getting that from any North American company.

In the case of Nepros, its a matter of commitment. In Japanese culture, there is rarely a circumstance where something is purely a marketing gimick. When they say that the tool will be flawless they mean it, and you can believe that every employee feels it. Anything less would be dishonorable.

Being in Japan is like being in a different world when it comes to the average expectation of quality and service. Once covid restrictions lift, I recommend anyone who hasnt visited to do so.

Superb explanation.
 

Downwindtracker 2

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I worked in the steel industry. When our parent was Japanese, we had two full time testers. We tested every carrier. We got bought by a Belgian company . The North American division was run by Americans. Testing dropped down to every 10 carriers and testing was done by a single tester.
 

measuredtwice

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I like Koken. But the Ko-ken pear head ratchet was originally a clone of the Proto that evolved over time and was improved on. Similarly the Koken spinner is a clone of the Snap-On. And after Snap-On changed the style of the spinner, Koken cloned the new style. To my knowledge, their 72 tooth design is a unique design.
 

richfinn

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I like Koken. But the Ko-ken pear head ratchet was originally a clone of the Proto that evolved over time and was improved on. Similarly the Koken spinner is a clone of the Snap-On. And after Snap-On changed the style of the spinner, Koken cloned the new style. To my knowledge, their 72 tooth design is a unique design.

The founder of Ko-Ken worked in the USA as a young man before returning to Japan, and was inspired by American mechanics tools

You can definately see that influence in the no nonsense design/tool quality/branding and packaging
 

GrantCee

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I like Koken. But the Ko-ken pear head ratchet was originally a clone of the Proto that evolved over time and was improved on.

So what?

Similarly the Koken spinner is a clone of the Snap-On. And after Snap-On changed the style of the spinner, Koken cloned the new style.

I've looked at both spinners, old and new, from both companies, and see very little similarity between them.
 

M6erfan

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As far as warranty is concerned (and I for one am not), Palmac is Ko-ken USA (Massachusetts) and Franks Tools is the KTC reseller in the U.S. (New Hampshire) and handles warranties. Keep in mind, if the ratchet mechanism wears out you are most likely buying a rebuild kit on your dime, this is considered normal wear and tear, outside of the U.S.
 

measuredtwice

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So I don't agree with some of what was posted by noid. Instead of arguing about it, I thought it was more productive to remember the history.

I think richfinn gave some nice context.

I've looked at both spinners, old and new, from both companies, and see very little similarity between them.

Compare Koken's new and old 3756 to Snap-Ons FRS70 and FRS70a.
 

M6erfan

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Compare Koken's new and old 3756 to Snap-Ons FRS70 and FRS70a.

I think they look quite different :dunno:

Ko-ken's new 72t is patented, so definitely unique. I've never seen, from another manufacturer, a 2 piece pawl like the one they designed.
 

Ralf11

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Its hard to draw parallels considering the philosophies differ as much between Japan/USA as they do between Nepro/Koken.

Generally speaking, the heirloom feeling of a brand like snap-on/mac/matco is in the marketing. At the end of the day, as a public company, reducing cost in production and improving margin via marketing yields the greatest returns.

This is further exacerbated by the fact that some brands like Proto/Mac/Stanley are all the same parent company and are therefore made in the same factory, just sold at different price points.

If you watch of a video of a NA tool factory you will notice productivity (speed) is of the essence; SO produces over 3.5 million ratchets/year.

This is precisely where Japanese philosophy differs; in the case of Koken, being private, its not about productivity, its about reputation and they will spend 4 years going from 36 to 72 tooth (like in this case), to get it just right. Zero compromise on backdrag (1.9cNm to 1.9cNm), zero compromise on size (exact same external dimensions), and zero compromise on strength (15% increase). The major difference is that they will actually tell you the exact limit and tolerance they are working too, good luck getting that from any North American company.

In the case of Nepros, its a matter of commitment. In Japanese culture, there is rarely a circumstance where something is purely a marketing gimick. When they say that the tool will be flawless they mean it, and you can believe that every employee feels it. Anything less would be dishonorable.

Being in Japan is like being in a different world when it comes to the average expectation of quality and service. Once covid restrictions lift, I recommend anyone who hasnt visited to do so.

I would forget about warranty, it will be more hassle than its worth.

I agree with this background. It's pervasive in the culture - e.g. look at the head of Toyota before Congress a few years ago - he apologized and looked like he was about to cry. Ever see a Big 3 guy do that? Lots of other examples from arranging flowers to carpentry, practicing with swords, archery, making sushi or mayonnaise. Here's another tidbit: Japan has 3x the number of 3 star eateries in the Michelin Guide compared with France. yeh, France! They get onto something and they are totally focused on it. Honor is a big, big deal.

I've owned Snappy ever since I could afford it and was replacing all the ratchets I had with Dual-80. When I discovered Nepros and Ko-ken thanks to this place, and tried a couple of each, I decided no more Snappy (much less SK or Proto).

I have just a couple of Dual-80 ratchets that I don't think Nepros or Ko-ken make, so I'll keep those.
 

GrantCee

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So I don't agree with some of what was posted by noid. Instead of arguing about it, I thought it was more productive to remember the history.

:headscrat

Compare Koken's new and old 3756 to Snap-Ons FRS70 and FRS70a.
Sorry, I thought you were referring to spinner handles, which don't look at all alike.

But then, the quick spinners are different too — in a simple part that has even less opportunity for variation.

Not sure what you're getting at in either case.
 

noid

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I worked in the steel industry. When our parent was Japanese, we had two full time testers. We tested every carrier. We got bought by a Belgian company . The North American division was run by Americans. Testing dropped down to every 10 carriers and testing was done by a single tester.

People think lifetime warranty is a mark of quality, but its really just the company passing the QA check to the customer.
 

General Geoff

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Just saw an email about new Ko-ken 72t ratchets, starting with 3/8 drive Zeal.

"The all new Ko-ken 72 tooth Z-Series Ratchets

Ko-ken ratchets are known for their very low backlash, small head sizes, and high torque ranges. We designed the new 72 tooth ratchet without compromising on our traditional strengths. The patented design of the 72T combines the low backlash, small size, and has a 10% higher torque limit in comparison to the 36 tooth ratchet. The legacy 36 tooth ratchets move 10°/click. The new 72 tooth ratchets move 5°/clicK.

The design changes include moving from the single pawl of the 36 tooth design to the patented dual pawl of the 72 tooth design. The dual pawl 72 tooth design utilizes a single spring. We took four years of testing to perfect the low spring pressure needed to maintain Ko-ken's hallmark low-torque backlash. The finer 72 teeth design creates more surface area contact with the gear; thus, it has a 10% higher torque upper limit.

The 72T is being released in the Z-Series 3/8" ratchets only in 2021. We will be releasing the 72T in ¼" and ½" sizes, without compromising the body sizes and low backlash as our testing allows. Look for more new product releases in 2022."

Link to ALL 3/8" Z ratchets (only some on this page are new 72t): https://palmac.net/shop-by-brand/koken-usa/z-series/3-8-sockets/ratchets/

Link to 72t overview video:

Looking forward to getting hands on one to try out.

Thanks for the heads-up! I just ordered the long flex-head 3/8" drive 72 tooth. It'll be my first Koken standalone ratchet, though I've been using their sockets and extensions for years. I've been very pleased with their ratchet adapters, I put them on my beam torque wrenches to turn them into ratchets.
 

richfinn

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I agree with this background. It's pervasive in the culture - e.g. look at the head of Toyota before Congress a few years ago - he apologized and looked like he was about to cry. Ever see a Big 3 guy do that? Lots of other examples from arranging flowers to carpentry, practicing with swords, archery, making sushi or mayonnaise. Here's another tidbit: Japan has 3x the number of 3 star eateries in the Michelin Guide compared with France. yeh, France! They get onto something and they are totally focused on it. Honor is a big, big deal.

I've owned Snappy ever since I could afford it and was replacing all the ratchets I had with Dual-80. When I discovered Nepros and Ko-ken thanks to this place, and tried a couple of each, I decided no more Snappy (much less SK or Proto).

I have just a couple of Dual-80 ratchets that I don't think Nepros or Ko-ken make, so I'll keep those.

I went to a mototorsport event at Goodwood in the UK a few years ago, I think it was Honda's centenary that year.

They literally shipped the whole Honda racing museum including bikes and F1 cars over from Japan for the weekend with full Honda personnel and ran everything up the hillclimb course

Just for fun!!!!

No restrictions you could walk round the paddock and watch the old Honda guys working away meticulously

The pride they have in those old machines is incredible
 

noid

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I agree with this background. It's pervasive in the culture - e.g. look at the head of Toyota before Congress a few years ago - he apologized and looked like he was about to cry. Ever see a Big 3 guy do that? Lots of other examples from arranging flowers to carpentry, practicing with swords, archery, making sushi or mayonnaise. Here's another tidbit: Japan has 3x the number of 3 star eateries in the Michelin Guide compared with France. yeh, France! They get onto something and they are totally focused on it. Honor is a big, big deal.

I've owned Snappy ever since I could afford it and was replacing all the ratchets I had with Dual-80. When I discovered Nepros and Ko-ken thanks to this place, and tried a couple of each, I decided no more Snappy (much less SK or Proto).

I have just a couple of Dual-80 ratchets that I don't think Nepros or Ko-ken make, so I'll keep those.
If I can provide more examples of this pervasiveness:

Last summer when renting a car, the gentlemen at the rental place literally ran faster than I could drive the car to the gate, just so I could have the pleasure of leaving unimpeded.

When arriving at a ryokan (japanese style hotel), the whole staff were awaiting our arrival standing uniformally outside, all bowed upon entering the building, and upon leaving they all stood uniformally outside waving with both hands goodbye.

Trains issue late certificates if they are minutes late and even sometimes apologize when even slightly early or late.
https://soranews24.com/2017/11/16/t...arture-is-one-of-the-best-things-about-japan/

This respect generally starts from a very young age, I recommend anyone interested to watch how a day in the life of an elementary student looks like:


It includes helping in prepping lunch, cleaning up, and as you watch this remember that it was filmed in 2018, pre-covid, look at all the PPE!

Respect, efficiency, and quality are unparalleled.
 
Last edited:

Skin

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Wish 1/4" was a higher priority. Most of my hand ratchet use is that drive size due to space or just low torque in general while 3/8 and 1/2 are predominantly power tools.

Patiently waiting a year I guess.
 

Fedwrench

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Wish 1/4" was a higher priority. Most of my hand ratchet use is that drive size due to space or just low torque in general while 3/8 and 1/2 are predominantly power tools.

Patiently waiting a year I guess.

Yeah, I was disappointed to read the 1/4 was at least a year away too. However, I'm grateful that Ko-Ken didn't start with 1/2 drive. Hopefully, the year flies by. :lol:
 
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