Ko-Ken releasing 72 tooth ratchets

[demarpaint]

I almost bought a 3/8" drive 72 tooth ratchet, and decided against it. I think 1/4" drive would be a better tool for me.

 

[toddmorr]

anybody see the repair kits yet, would like to try retrofitting my 36 tooth guys

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[noid]

anybody see the repair kits yet, would like to try retrofitting my 36 tooth guys

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using The Garage Journal mobile app

Koken doesn't recommend doing this; the internal milling is different enough where it will technically fit, but wont be the same.

 

[FuzzyTiger]

I have Nepros, Koken, Mac, and Snap On ratchets.

They all have a very distinct feel to them. The Mac and Snap On feel and work great. You can tell they're quality tools and my Mac 1/4 extended flex head is my favorite tool. It probably has the most back drag of all of them and it's mechanism feels the 'roughest' and has the most slop but I love the size and ergonomics of it.

The Snap On is better than the Mac in terms of back drag and smoothness but I'm not a fan of how it feels in my hand. It's just okay as a result.

The Koken is on a different level in terms of back drag. When you feel the mechanism, it's definitely noticeable. Unfortunately I only have a tiny Koken so ergonomics wise it comes after my Mac. It's probably my second favorite ratchet though.

The Nepros. If there's such a thing as a special occasion ratchet, this is it. It's beautiful. It's functional. It is an absolutely pleasure to use. The mechanism probably has just a little more back drag than the Koken, the teeth feel much finer than any other ratchet and it's all just.. perfect. If there's a perfect ratchet, this is it. But I rarely use it because I don't want to get it dirty or abuse it. I use it whenever I can but it's never the first tool I grab. That's the Mac because it's very functional and nice but not so nice that I feel bad about abusing it.

Edit: Absolutely going to buy the Koken the next time I have a project to work on.

 

[GForceJunky]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback, it is truly helpful and I'm confident I now understand exactly what I'd be getting myself into with either of these brands.

I just wish they came out with this knew style of ratchet with different handles. Anyone know if they've announced any plans to expand the 3/8" line beyond what's seen at the link above?

Its hard to draw parallels considering the philosophies differ as much between Japan/USA as they do between Nepro/Koken.

Generally speaking, the heirloom feeling of a brand like snap-on/mac/matco is in the marketing. At the end of the day, as a public company, reducing cost in production and improving margin via marketing yields the greatest returns.

This is further exacerbated by the fact that some brands like Proto/Mac/Stanley are all the same parent company and are therefore made in the same factory, just sold at different price points.

If you watch of a video of a NA tool factory you will notice productivity (speed) is of the essence; SO produces over 3.5 million ratchets/year.

This is precisely where Japanese philosophy differs; in the case of Koken, being private, its not about productivity, its about reputation and they will spend 4 years going from 36 to 72 tooth (like in this case), to get it just right. Zero compromise on backdrag (1.9cNm to 1.9cNm), zero compromise on size (exact same external dimensions), and zero compromise on strength (15% increase). The major difference is that they will actually tell you the exact limit and tolerance they are working too, good luck getting that from any North American company.

In the case of Nepros, its a matter of commitment. In Japanese culture, there is rarely a circumstance where something is purely a marketing gimick. When they say that the tool will be flawless they mean it, and you can believe that every employee feels it. Anything less would be dishonorable.

Being in Japan is like being in a different world when it comes to the average expectation of quality and service. Once covid restrictions lift, I recommend anyone who hasnt visited to do so.

I would forget about warranty, it will be more hassle than its worth.

Thanks for this insight. I actually am quite familiar with the Japanese culture for a variety of reasons, but not limited to having worked in engineering for Toyota for a time. So everything you're saying makes perfect sense to me and is very much in line with the mental image I have of how these companies work.

I guess the fact that it took 4 years to come up with this new ratchet design should tell me all I really need to know. No other company I can think of would likely dedicate that much efforted to such a task, or at least not without some sort of compromise on performance (e.g. backdrag).








Decisions decisions...maybe I grab a 3/8" Ko-Ken and a 1/4" Nepros. I'd like to get another 1/2" ratchet but I have more of those than any other size so I should cool my jets and see how I like the others first. Too many options even within each brand!

 

[Formerjeeper]

What exactly are those black Zeal handles? Is it black rubber? Does it hold up?

 

[noid]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback, it is truly helpful and I'm confident I now understand exactly what I'd be getting myself into with either of these brands.

I just wish they came out with this knew style of ratchet with different handles. Anyone know if they've announced any plans to expand the 3/8" line beyond what's seen at the link above?



Thanks for this insight. I actually am quite familiar with the Japanese culture for a variety of reasons, but not limited to having worked in engineering for Toyota for a time. So everything you're saying makes perfect sense to me and is very much in line with the mental image I have of how these companies work.

I guess the fact that it took 4 years to come up with this new ratchet design should tell me all I really need to know. No other company I can think of would likely dedicate that much efforted to such a task, or at least not without some sort of compromise on performance (e.g. backdrag).








Decisions decisions...maybe I grab a 3/8" Ko-Ken and a 1/4" Nepros. I'd like to get another 1/2" ratchet but I have more of those than any other size so I should cool my jets and see how I like the others first. Too many options even within each brand!

I just wish they would add quick release, but at this rate we'll have to wait another 4 years for them to get it just so.

The only thing I hate more than backdrag is messing with a socket when it or my hands are greasy.

 

[M6erfan]

. . .

The Nepros. If there's such a thing as a special occasion ratchet, this is it. It's beautiful. It's functional. It is an absolutely pleasure to use. The mechanism probably has just a little more back drag than the Koken, the teeth feel much finer than any other ratchet and it's all just.. perfect. If there's a perfect ratchet, this is it. But I rarely use it because I don't want to get it dirty or abuse it. I use it whenever I can but it's never the first tool I grab. That's the Mac because it's very functional and nice but not so nice that I feel bad about abusing it.

I hear ya. About 7 years ago I bought some Nepros tools (ratchets, sockets). I was amazed at the beauty of them, the build quality is second to none. I sold them almost immediately, I knew I could never use them and scratch them up. I use my tools pretty hard. I bought Ko-ken and happily use them daily.

 

[GForceJunky]

I just wish they would add quick release, but at this rate we'll have to wait another 4 years for them to get it just so.

The only thing I hate more than backdrag is messing with a socket when it or my hands are greasy.

Ahh, no quick release is certainly not ideal. I assume they're just friction fit, or do you need to push in the ball/detent pin through the hole in the socket? Anything with a detent pin or that requires pushing in the ball is an auto no-go for me. I assume it's a relatively strong friction fit from the sprung ball detent? I also hate trying to mess with sockets with greasy hands...and they are often greasy when working on my cars (old car problems).

 

[measuredtwice]

Ahh, no quick release is certainly not ideal. I assume they're just friction fit, or do you need to push in the ball/detent pin through the hole in the socket? Anything with a detent pin or that requires pushing in the ball is an auto no-go for me. I assume it's a relatively strong friction fit from the sprung ball detent? I also hate trying to mess with sockets with greasy hands...and they are often greasy when working on my cars (old car problems).

It's a ball detent, not a pin. No problem with it on my Koken ratchets.

 

[richfinn]

I just wish they would add quick release, but at this rate we'll have to wait another 4 years for them to get it just so.

The only thing I hate more than backdrag is messing with a socket when it or my hands are greasy.

I'm the opposite, not a fan of quick release ratchets and always avoid buying them

I've noticed over the years you don't see many Snap-On QRs knocking about in shops for some reason, more moving parts means less robust maybe??

 

[GrantCee]

I'm the opposite, not a fan of quick release ratchets and always avoid buying them

I've noticed over the years you don't see many Snap-On QRs knocking about in shops for some reason, more moving parts means less robust maybe??

From the Ko-ken catalog, in reference to their quick-release 3/8 ratchets:

"Reversible Ratchet with quick release button has less strength compared with normal ratchet due to the technical design."

 

[toddmorr]

Koken doesn't recommend doing this; the internal milling is different enough where it will technically fit, but wont be the same.

could well be. but on the other hand, i can just see an ultra cautious koken engineering dept saying we never tested it so it can't possibly work OK, when in fact all the measurements line up fine.

Personally i'd be willing to take a chance on trying it, if I can find a place selling them. Guess I'll shoot a note to Palmac or dig around on amazon jp a bit.

 

[GrantCee]

The only thing I hate more than backdrag is messing with a socket when it or my hands are greasy.

That's why you need more ratchets — one for each of the sockets you're using on that job!

(I think that's what they call "enabling". )

 

[Ralf11]

What exactly are those black Zeal handles? Is it black rubber? Does it hold up?

might be EPDM

I've only had a 1/4" drive one for a few months but seems sturdy

 

[toddmorr]

What exactly are those black Zeal handles? Is it black rubber? Does it hold up?

yes, a black rubber of some sort. I have the regular 3/8 and the long 3/8. It holds up just fine after 2 yrs, and conceals the dirt/grease much better than the multi colored soft grips on other other brands. No issue with the handles, even the seemingly too short version on the long ratchet....thought it might be uncomfortable in use but not so.

 

[M6erfan]

Dang, no 1/4" drive model for at least a year

 

[noid]

Dang, no 1/4" drive model for at least a year

You would think the specs would be the same for 1/4" and 1/2" just proportionately increased/decreased.

 

[Fedwrench]

Dang, no 1/4" drive model for at least a year

Yeah, I'm disappointed in this too but, then I realized that other manufacturers like MAC and SK took as long to release their new ratchet series in different drive sizes. They just want you to want their new ratchet that much more

 

[GrantCee]

Has anyone gotten Ko-ken stickers with their recent order from Palmac? They used to send stickers with every order, but the last couple of my orders arrived without them.

 

[GrantCee]

Yeah, I'm disappointed in this too but, then I realized that other manufacturers like MAC and SK took as long to release their new ratchet series in different drive sizes. They just want you to want their new ratchet that much more

I ordered a 2726Z-160 just two days before the news of the 72t broke. When I heard about the new ratchets, I considered cancelling the order to wait for the new models to be available in 1/4. Then I learned the 1/4 drive would be another year, and decided not to cancel the order. I needed a new ratchet now!

Since it arrived I've been using it extensively on a tight A/C system rebuild, and I've found the 36t in 1/4 to be more than enough. The change from my 24t Proto 1/4 is substantial (not to mention the Ko-ken is smaller and more reliable.) It's good enough that I think I'll go ahead and order the 2725Z (and probably the 2725Z-3/8 as well.)

The 72 will make a big difference in the long 3/8 ratchets (which I've already ordered, and should arrive at my doorstep on Friday), but for the small stuff I'm satisfied with the current models.

 

[Fedwrench]

My two Ko-Ken 72 tooth ratchets arrived yesterday from Palmac. I got a standard length and the 280mm long flex head. Ko-Ken continues to be the king of low back drag ratchets. First impressions: Flawless finish, shiny but, not too shiny. no nicks, no scratches from handling/transport which is kind of surprising since the flex head came in a plastic bag, while the standard model traveled in the red/white cardboard box. the ratchets have some heft to them and their heads maybe narrower than other 3/8 ratchets but, they are on the thick side at 9/16. Both ratchets share the same elastomer grip. In fact, it's the same length (2 5/8) on the standard ratchet as the longer flex head. I think it's too short on the flex head. I think it should have been about an inch longer but, that might just be me. I also noticed Ko-Ken uses a pin on the flex head fork. I would like to see future 72 tooth versions mated to their all metal knurled handles. I think the 72 tooth action is fairly crisp but, I don't think there's another 72 tooth ratchet on the market with as low, or lower back drag which seems to be important to some of you.

 

[Ralf11]

Ko-Ken continues to be the king of low back drag ratchets.

Thx for your report.

Not to get off-topic but where we really need low backdrag is in ratcheting screwdrivers (the smaller the wrenching fixture the greater the need for back drag). I wish Ko-ken would make one.

 

[16again]

My long reach 72T arrived. [emoji106]
Nothing to report yet as I’ve not used it. From feel, I can tell back-drag is minimal at best. Just like my other Zeal ratchets.

 

[noid]

Thx for your report.

Not to get off-topic but where we really need low backdrag is in ratcheting screwdrivers (the smaller the wrenching fixture the greater the need for back drag). I wish Ko-ken would make one.

Its your lucky day. What you want is a Rolgear; its a gearless screwdriver that has nearly no backdrag. Made in Canada to boot.

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[GrantCee]

My 3726Z-280-72T (long flex head) arrived today!

Out of the box, the backdrag is slightly less than my 3725Z. I was a little worried that a low backdrag coupled with a higher tooth count would make the action a little "mushy", but it's not. It's as crisp as the 36 tooth version. They did an excellent job.

I put it to work immediately alongside the 3725Z; nothing strenuous or that would show off the advantages of the higher tooth count, but it was a pleasure to use. Definitely a welcome addition to their line (and my toolbox!)

My only complaint is that, again, Palmac didn't send any Ko-ken stickers with the order.

 

[16again]

My only complaint is that, again, Palmac didn't send any Ko-ken stickers with the order.

I’m with ya man. This is my 3rd order with no Koken sticker.

 

[noid]

I’m with ya man. This is my 3rd order with no Koken sticker.

Not just stickers, I once got a koken towel with my order! (albeit not from palmac)

 

[JBH]

I put it to work immediately alongside the 3725Z; nothing strenuous or that would show off the advantages of the higher tooth count,

I suspect that will be the case in most situations. That’s why I’m not too upset Koken’s taking their time on 1/4”. Their current stuff works just fine. I usually pick up a standard Koken instead of the 80T Stahlwille or 90T Nepros next to it.

That said, if there are no disadvantages then why not?

 

[AceofSpad3s]

Is this palmac place new, or is Koken actually supplying the US market now? Because when I bought my 3753n a few years ago any place that was based in the US was like double the cost of amazon.jp, where as this place looks lower than even there, I haven't really been paying attention for since I bought that one.
It gets irritating when these companies supposedly have US branches and English catalogs, but when it comes to actually trying to purchase anything it's basically impossible to get it aside from importing or resellers charging 3 times the price. So it is nice to see things more readily available even the rebuild kit is reasonable.
72 teeth with similar back drag is appealing, but I might have to wait and see since I like the metal handles on the 3753.

 

[Fedwrench]

I don't think Palmac itself is new but, I think them selling Ko-Ken happened in the last six months or so. I never heard of them until MrSubaru mentioned them in one of his You Tube videos and it's been downhill since

Palmac seems to offer the entire Ko-Ken catalog so, I think they might be the main distributor of Ko-Ken for the USA market. They are even listed on the redesigned Ko-KenUSA website.

As for the lack of Ko-Ken decals in recent Palmac orders, my guess is that they simply ran out. I mean when they stick 3-4 decals in the shipping label envelope, they're not going to last long

I would love to see one of Ko-Kens knurled oval handled ratchets in 72 tooth trim but, i'm not sure if that's in their future plans or not.

 

[M6erfan]

Palmac is Ko-ken USA

Look up the address of both Palmac & Ko-ken USA. Notice anything similar?

 

[FuzzyTiger]

I just wish they would add quick release, but at this rate we'll have to wait another 4 years for them to get it just so.

The only thing I hate more than backdrag is messing with a socket when it or my hands are greasy.

Ahh, no quick release is certainly not ideal. I assume they're just friction fit, or do you need to push in the ball/detent pin through the hole in the socket? Anything with a detent pin or that requires pushing in the ball is an auto no-go for me. I assume it's a relatively strong friction fit from the sprung ball detent? I also hate trying to mess with sockets with greasy hands...and they are often greasy when working on my cars (old car problems).

There's actually a specific reason these ratchets don't have quick release. Notice the black pad where your quick release button would normally go?

It's directly connected to the square drive. What that means is you can rest your thumb on there while turning the ratchet to provide additional resistance and eliminate the issue of back drag entirely. Same as if you used a second hand to hold the socket.

It's that Japanese attention to detail. Nothing is there because of laziness or oversight. It's all because they believed it would make it a better tool.

 

[noid]

There's actually a specific reason these ratchets don't have quick release. Notice the black pad where your quick release button would normally go?

It's directly connected to the square drive. What that means is you can rest your thumb on there while turning the ratchet to provide additional resistance and eliminate the issue of back drag entirely. Same as if you used a second hand to hold the socket.

It's that Japanese attention to detail. Nothing is there because of laziness or oversight. It's all because they believed it would make it a better tool.

It just hasn't flowed down to to the zeal line. They aren't completely opposed to it as they have it as an option in their traditional line.

 

[measuredtwice]

There's actually a specific reason these ratchets don't have quick release. Notice the black pad where your quick release button would normally go?

It's directly connected to the square drive. What that means is you can rest your thumb on there while turning the ratchet to provide additional resistance and eliminate the issue of back drag entirely. Same as if you used a second hand to hold the socket.

It's that Japanese attention to detail. Nothing is there because of laziness or oversight. It's all because they believed it would make it a better tool.

The ancient Plomb/Proto ratchets had a similar build. And many companies borrowed from this old design. There are certainly smart people at Koken but I don't think this is an example of it.

My impression is that the Zeal line is intended for tight spaces and that may be why they didn't add a release button that sticks out. I guess it might accidentally release the socket if it gets bumped. Also it's weaker structurally.

 

[FuzzyTiger]

It just hasn't flowed down to to the zeal line. They aren't completely opposed to it as they have it as an option in their traditional line.

Oh I'm certain they'll release variants with quick release. But given the two options, they just seem to have chosen that as the one to prioritize.

 

[FuzzyTiger]

The ancient Plomb/Proto ratchets had a similar build. And many companies borrowed from this old design. There are certainly smart people at Koken but I don't think this is an example of it.

My impression is that the Zeal line is intended for tight spaces and that may be why they didn't add a release button that sticks out. I guess it might accidentally release the socket if it gets bumped. Also it's weaker structurally.

They have quick release and non-quick release options. I'm sure both will come to the Zeal line but they just seem to have made the decision to prioritize releasing the current design before the quick release variants. I guess ultimately only their engineers/management can answer why they went with one design over the other but its an unusual enough design that it must have been a specific decision.

Mind you - I also don't think the pad is a Zeal specific feature. I think its just Koken's default preference for what they think is 'ideal'.

 

[Skin]

Zeal has been around for 10 years or more and they havent migrated quick release over so I wouldnt hold your breath. They're far from the only brand to ignore it (Matco/MAC/Cornwell/SK/Hazet/Facom etc.. except for a handful of import models).

My impression is that the Zeal line is intended for tight spaces and that may be why they didn't add a release button that sticks out.

They can be made with a button thats flush, or nearly so. See Craftsman for the last 20 years and Nepros 3/8-1/2, just to name 2. Like the brands I mentioned above, I just dont think they have any interest in adding that feature to the "Professional" Z-Series. At least not in the immediate future.

 

[noid]

I mean, it may just be a matter of taking the QR components from another ratchet, drilling an appropriately sized hole and bam we've got a QR zeal.

Who wants to start up this retrofit operation?

 

[American Locomotive]

There's actually a specific reason these ratchets don't have quick release. Notice the black pad where your quick release button would normally go?

It's directly connected to the square drive. What that means is you can rest your thumb on there while turning the ratchet to provide additional resistance and eliminate the issue of back drag entirely. Same as if you used a second hand to hold the socket.

It's that Japanese attention to detail. Nothing is there because of laziness or oversight. It's all because they believed it would make it a better tool.

Resting your thumb on that wouldn't do anything, as your thumb would rotate with the ratchet. It would only do something if you held it steady with your other thumb...and at that point you could just hold the socket.

It's there because it's easier to manufacture the ratchet with that design. Instead of needing to precisely machine a pocket/recess into the ratchet body, you just have a die punch a hole right through the forging in a split second. It's a design that can trace its origins back to Plumb/Proto ratchets of the early 1900s.