Kraeuter

[misterbill]

As noted in the 2024 Garage Sale Thread (13th Annual), I recently picked up these 1671-6 "HY-POWER" needle nose pliers. I can't believe how nice shape these are in given that they're 90+ years old! They cleaned up pretty well, too. Love the design on the handles.





Bill

 

[d42jeep]

I found these 8” pliers at an estate sale yesterday. They could use some cleaning but seem to be in good condition.
-Don

 

[Mintgrun]

Three-position slip joints are unusual.

 

[Mintgrun]

I found this pair of 1631-5 1/2 curved needle nose pliers yesterday. The first 3/4" of the jaws have serrations.


Here are a few more I own. Two 1671-6 and a 1601-5, which were quite rusty when I found them. I like the texture it left behind. They feel good in hand.

 

[d42jeep]

Three-position slip joints are unusual.

They aren’t real common, that’s for sure. I tried to find this exact pair in any catalog and was unsuccessful. These have plain handles but according to the available catalogs they should have handles with a pattern.
-Don

 

[ranger08]

early 1903-7 thin nose pliers circa 1910 to 1920 i think

 

[GarageHobbyist]

Picked up these GripKut Junior pliers yesterday. Lugz provided some info in the Garage Sale thread and stated he couldn’t find any posted here, so now there is

Trying to figure a date range on these is a bit confusing according to the info provided on Alloy Artifacts.
The handles have the “Don’t Slip” pattern, and are marked “Kraeuter USA” inside. They also lack a location stamping.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Trying to figure a date range on these is a bit confusing according to the info provided on Alloy Artifacts.

Google Books and the Kraeuter catalogs themselves (you can find them on Internet Archive International Tools Catalog Library) are just as confusing about "Gripkut"!

Without drawing any conclusion, I will tell you what I have found...

/ The "Gripkut" name (note, no "-Junior-") shows up, along with other early Kraeuter names "Victor" and "Dreadnought", as early as 1917, as evidenced by this Chilton Automobile Directory.

/ The "Gripkut" (note, no "-Junior-") shows up on page 6 of a Kraeuter catalog dated 1921, where it's called "the latest Kraeuter creation" and a "Design patent plier." Linked here.

"Latest creation" (in 1921 cat) seems to jibe somewhat with the earliest reference (1917) I can find on GB. "Design patent plier" sounds past tense to me, not pending, which might suggest yours was made sometime between 1918 and 1921. But that's when things go haywire.

/ There is a whole page dedicated to "Gripkut" pliers in the 1934 Kraeuter catalog, which also states they are "(Patents Pending)". Linked here.

How can they be "Patents Pending" in 1934 if they were a "Design patent plier" in 1921? Different patents?

I have not looked further than that yet.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

That is confusing

 

[GarageHobbyist]

Google Books and the Kraeuter catalogs themselves (you can find them on Internet Archive International Tools Catalog Library) are just as confusing about "Gripkut"!

Without drawing any conclusion, I will tell you what I have found...

/ The "Gripkut" name (note, no "-Junior-") shows up, along with other early Kraeuter names "Victor" and "Dreadnought", as early as 1917, as evidenced by this Chilton Automobile Directory.

/ The "Gripkut" (note, no "-Junior-") shows up on page 6 of a Kraeuter catalog dated 1921, where it's called "the latest Kraeuter creation" and a "Design patent plier." Linked here.

"Latest creation" (in 1921 cat) seems to jibe somewhat with the earliest reference (1917) I can find on GB. "Design patent plier" sounds past tense to me, not pending, which might suggest yours was made sometime between 1918 and 1921. But that's when things go haywire.

/ There is a whole page dedicated to "Gripkut" pliers in the 1934 Kraeuter catalog, which also states they are "(Patents Pending)". Linked here.

How can they be "Patents Pending" in 1934 if they were a "Design patent plier" in 1921? Different patents?

I have not looked further than that yet.

After looking at everything, I would guess they are actually later than that for a couple reasons:

In all the info on the Gripkut pliers, it sounds like they may have been the first plier with the "Beauty Handle" design (before the patent was submitted and issued), but then later were switched to the older "Don't Slip" design. So if I followed that all correctly, earlier versions should have the "Beauty Handle" design and not the older "Don't Slip" design. This matches what the earlier catalogs show.

The 1934 catalog shows the "Don't Slip" handles, and mentions the "cotter pin groove" in the nose that mine have, but the markings are a bit off vs the catalog. I didn't see the nose groove mentioned in the earlier catalogs.

If you look at Catalog 18 from 1939, the "Combination Side Cutting Pliers" (also model 1973) are a pretty close match, having all the features as far as handle pattern and stamping style/locations go, minus the Gripkut jaws.

I could be wrong, or didn't follow events correctly, and of course catalogs don't always match the product exactly.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I read the AA explanation three times, and reviewed the catalogs, and it's all a mess to me. The premise that the "Design patent plier" refers to the handle pattern makes no sense to me. The same pattern is shown on several other pliers, and yet that phrase is not included in their description. I'll have to return to that subject some other time. Regardless of age, they're vintage, and I still think they're the first Gripknuts posted here.

 

[GarageHobbyist]

I read the AA explanation three times, and reviewed the catalogs, and it's all a mess to me. The premise that the "Design patent plier" refers to the handle pattern makes no sense to me. The same pattern is shown on several other pliers, and yet that phrase is not included in their description. I'll have to return to that subject some other time. Regardless of age, they're vintage, and I still think they're the first Gripknuts posted here.

I was digging through This page , and they have a photo/description of the same set that I have, estimated mid 1930s-30s.

 

[four.cycle]

I found a "Grip-All" and a "Griptite" in a 1924 trade magazine advertisement.
The 1924 House-Hasson Co. catalog shows a model 51 merchandiser assortment which includes the model 1973 "Gripkut" pliers.
The 1930 Union Hardware catalog shows both a 5-1/2 inch and a 7-inch "Gripkut" pliers. (page 209)
The 1930 Union Hardware catalog shows a model 50 merchandiser assortment which includes the model 1973 "Gripkut" pliers. (page 213)
The 1934 General Hardware catalog shows a model 1973 "Gripkut" pliers in both 5-1/2" and 7" models.

I've got "Griptite" up to 1954, but no "Gripkut" after that 1934 catalog page.

I'm coming in late here so I'm not sure what the question is, sorry.

 

[four.cycle]

Okay, maybe I'll have to go back and re-read AA's piece, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me at all at the moment, but I may not be clear-headed enough to understand it.

Would it not be reasonable to consider there's a possibility the "Junior" is the smaller and the "Senior" is the larger, and that perhaps that was a little detail not mentioned in the catalogs?

< edit: I just re-read that AA piece, and I think maybe he's putting a lot of faith in the accuracy of the proverbial "artist's rendition". Just my lousy opinion, of course.>

 

[GarageHobbyist]

I found a "Grip-All" and a "Griptite" in a 1924 trade magazine advertisement.
The 1924 House-Hasson Co. catalog shows a model 51 merchandiser assortment which includes the model 1973 "Gripkut" pliers.
The 1930 Union Hardware catalog shows both a 5-1/2 inch and a 7-inch "Gripkut" pliers. (page 209)
The 1930 Union Hardware catalog shows a model 50 merchandiser assortment which includes the model 1973 "Gripkut" pliers. (page 213)
The 1934 General Hardware catalog shows a model 1973 "Gripkut" pliers in both 5-1/2" and 7" models.

I've got "Griptite" up to 1954, but no "Gripkut" after that 1934 catalog page.

I'm coming in late here so I'm not sure what the question is, sorry.

Well, I guess there wasn't really a question. I was having a hard time following everything to come up with a date range for these. Lugz was providing catalog sources.
The 1939 catalog still shows a 1973 model plier, but they dropped the "Gripkut" branding. From what I understand "Gripkut" 1973 pliers were double cut (for lack of a better term), and had grooves cut front to rear in addition to normal side to side teeth. You can see them in the close up of the jaw I posted. At some point between 34 and 39 they stopped doing this and dropped the name "Gripkut"

Okay, maybe I'll have to go back and re-read AA's piece, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me at all at the moment, but I may not be clear-headed enough to understand it.

Would it not be reasonable to consider there's a possibility the "Junior" is the smaller and the "Senior" is the larger, and that perhaps that was a little detail not mentioned in the catalogs?

< edit: I just re-read that AA piece, and I think maybe he's putting a lot of faith in the accuracy of the proverbial "artist's rendition". Just my lousy opinion, of course.>

I do believe "Junior" to be the smaller version of certain models. I'm not sure if it was all models, but I have a pair of Victor 5" that are stamped "Junior" as well. As far as I can tell, that was never referenced in the catalogs. Lugz was just stating that the catalogs didn't reference the "Junior" designation. Unfortunately since it isn't referenced and not shown in any photos, we can't use that to help with dating. From what I have seen, "Senior" was never stamped on anything.

I also think there is quite a bit of faith put into catalog photos from that time period just in general. Back then it was quite expensive to change a catalog image, especially over minor changes that didn't change the function or quality of the tool.

To summarize what I understand from it all is that:

• The 1973 pliers were introduced around 1917 or 1918 and had the "Beauty Handle" design from the 1921 patent, even though they were released several years prior.
• For whatever reason, the "Beauty Handle" design was phased out of most of the line by the late 20's, and the 1973 pliers were offered with the "Don't Slip" handles from the 1914 patent sometime in the mid to late 20's.
• 1934 was the last published advertisement we have available of the "Gripkut" name for the 1973 pliers, showing the "Don't Slip" design.
• By 1939 the, the 1973 pliers were called "combination side cutting pliers"

So with the set I have only having the Kraeuter name stamp (no location), the "Don't Slip" grip, and the Kraeuter USA marking inside the handle, the best date I can come up with is mid 20's to mid 30's. The screenshot I posted earlier would support that as well.

The only strange part is that even with the "Don't Slip" grip, the pliers were still marked "Pat Pending", but I'm not sure what for. The grip design patent had been granted since 1914, and the pliers themselves had been available for 10 or more years. AA makes it sound as if the "Pat Pending" stamp was related to the "Beauty Design" grips of the 1921 patent, which may have made sense originally, but doesn't explain why newer examples with different grips were still patent pending.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Well, you just saved me a lot of typing, GH! That's a very good summary of the entire situation, especially the last paragraph. I wasn't questioning the age of your pliers. Frankly, I am too confused by the ads and catalogs to date them, and too confused by AA's explanation to question it.

I can't get past two logical stumbling blocks.

If the "Design patent" Kraeuter is referring to in the "Gripkut" description in the 1921 catalog is related to the pattern on the handle, why wouldn't that phrase ("Design patent pliers.") be included in the descriptions of the other pliers in the same catalog that have the identical handle pattern?!

Like you, here...

..."Gripkut" 1973 pliers were double cut (for lack of a better term), and had grooves cut front to rear in addition to normal side to side teeth.

...I was thinking the "Grip" and the "kut" in the "Gripkut" name had to do with the jaws and the teeth, not the handle. They go out of their way to call it out and extoll its gripping virtues. They are not talking about the handles, and we are given no reason to read the "Design patent plier" phrase, which leads off the entire description, to be in reference to the handle pattern.

Again, like you here...

AA makes it sound as if the "Pat Pending" stamp was related to the "Beauty Design" grips of the 1921 patent, which may have made sense originally, but doesn't explain why newer examples with different grips were still patent pending.

...the parenthetical notice "(PATENTS PENDING)" on the Gripkut page in the 1934 catalog, and the markings on your actual pliers, are vexing.

What patent(s) is(are) pending? Ironically, the page and your pliers are at least consistent and probably help date them. But what patents are they referring to? As far as I can tell, AA never explains, not even within the context of their own handle pattern interpretation.

 

[GarageHobbyist]

Well, you just saved me a lot of typing, GH! That's a very good summary of the entire situation, especially the last paragraph. I wasn't questioning the age of your pliers. Frankly, I am too confused by the ads and catalogs to date them, and too confused by AA's explanation to question it.

I can't get past two logical stumbling blocks.

If the "Design patent" Kraeuter is referring to in the "Gripkut" description in the 1921 catalog is related to the pattern on the handle, why wouldn't that phrase ("Design patent pliers.") be included in the descriptions of the other pliers in the same catalog that have the identical handle pattern?!

Like you, here...

...I was thinking the "Grip" and the "kut" in the "Gripkut" name had to do with the jaws and the teeth, not the handle. They go out of their way to call it out and extoll its gripping virtues. They are not talking about the handles, and we are given no reason to read the "Design patent plier" phrase, which leads off the entire description, to be in reference to the handle pattern.

Again, like you here...

...the parenthetical notice "(PATENTS PENDING)" on the Gripkut page in the 1934 catalog, and the markings on your actual pliers, are vexing.

What patent(s) is(are) pending? Ironically, the page and your pliers are at least consistent and probably help date them. But what patents are they referring to? As far as I can tell, AA never explains, not even within the context of their own handle pattern interpretation.

My thought is there is a missing patent (possibly rejected?) for the jaw design itself, that the patent pending stamp actually refers to. AA does reference a patent or two that there is no documentation for.

The grip patent wouldn't protect the plier design as AA suggests in that section.
A patent applied for and being argued for several years would explain why the pending mark was used for so many years, and then once the jaw design was discontinued there were no references to a patent or pending patent on the 1973 model pliers.

Again, just my thoughts and speculation from what we have to look at without any real supporting evidence.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[tkamd73]

Years ago thought I bought a set of SK deep I/2” drive sockets on eBay, but what arrived were these. Price was good, and they seemed good quality, so I kept them.
Tim

 

[d42jeep]

You probably came out even since the Kraeuter sockets were made by S-K.
-Don

 

[tkamd73]

Thanks Don, I definitely did not know that!
Tim

 

[four.cycle]

Kraeuter & Co. Inc., 585 18th Ave., Newark, NJ

1925

 

[d42jeep]

Here is a nice 3/8” drive ratchet I found at a recent estate sale.
-Don

 

[Eric Brown]

Here are my Kraeuter pliers. The first one is marked "Kraeuter & Co Inc, Newark N.J., Pat Pend, U S. Have not found a patent per say, but maybe because it can use the same casting for both sides? Next are a group of three with "Forged Steel" inside the handles. Includes a 1831-7", no model 6 1/2", 1741-6. Next group of four marked Kraeuter USA inside handles, 1821-8, 601-5 1/2, 1601-5, 356-5 1/2, Last is a group of three also marked Kraeuter USA, 1611-5 round nose, qty 2 #82 end nippers.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The first one is marked "Kraeuter & Co Inc, Newark N.J., Pat Pend, U S. Have not found a patent

To my knowledge, no patent has ever been identified. The large sans serif "U S" is thought to be martial, not COO, and pliers like these were used in WWI. I posted a pair upthread here.

 

[four.cycle]

Kraeuter & Co. Inc., 585 18th Ave., Newark, NJ

 

[WisJim]

Found these 6" nippers in a free box at a sale.

 

[MisterEd]

356-8

 

[d42jeep]

Here is a 1/2” Kraeuter cold chisel I found in Gardnerville NV on Friday at a garage sale.
-Don
edit. A little more useful now.

 

[d42jeep]

This NOS Kraeuter metric 3/8” drive socket set arrived in the mail today.
-Don

 

[Etchase]

Odd wording. “ by the makers of Kraeuter hand tools.” Is that on a lot of their products? Nice Item BTW.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

^ Interesting observation. I'm guessing it's a vague third party production admission. S-K was making their modern (very late vintage) socket drive tools. I don't know when this metric stuff is from or who was making it. Don or 4.c or someone more versed in this late era will undoubtedly know more.

 

[d42jeep]

The rack is identical to the various metric S-K racks started in the Wayne era. I assume Dresser era.


-Don

 

[four.cycle]

Don or 4.c or someone more versed in this late era will undoubtedly know more.

The only Kraeuter I owned were a couple little 1/4" drive SAE sets. The SOCKETS did appear similar to contemporaneous S-K, but they had a different knurling pattern. The ratchet and spinner were a bit different. (photos here) Can't speak to the metric.

 

[Fred Knox]

Here’s a recent pick-up:
A Kraeuter 2801-7 7” linesman pliers. Its face is marked “Nickel Dreadnought Steel”, which AA says the company introduced in 1914. It does have the “Don’t Slip” gripping pattern.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I found another Diamond-K engineers' wrench (A1619) that I needed at the flea this morning. Photos attached.

Updated collection list...

"S" wrench
B1214
B2022
B2428
B2832

Engineers
A1416
A1618
A1619
A1922
A2428
A2831

Checknut
C1214
C2428

Tappet
O1416

 

[Leviton]

Kraeuter 14 piece 1/4" drive SAE Socket Wrench Set w/Original Box

manufactured by S-K Tool Division of Dresser Industries, Franklin Park, Illinois U.S.A.

this set includes:

31106 3/16" 6 pt std socket
31107 7/32" "
31108 1/4" "
31109 9/32" "
31110 5/16" "
31111 11/32" "
31112 3/8" "
31114 7/16" "
31116 1/2" "

32031 3/8" m x 1/4" f Drive Adapter
31054 6 inch Spinner Handle
31061 2 inch Extension
31070 RHFT Reversible Ratchet

Steel Box w/plastic insert

Set A

@four.cycle , were you able to find this set in a catalog?

 

[four.cycle]

No.... that was an ebay purchase. Had a buggered handle on the spinner. Had to buy a new one for that set.
I don't think we've ever seen a "new" Kraeuter catalog - only old ads for early pliers.
The most recent catalog ITCL has is 1960, and there are no sockets or ratchets in it at all.

 

[d42jeep]

This set insert shows the tools that were included in the set.
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

so... that one of mine (in the box) has an extra piece in it: the 3/8" F x 1/4" M drive adapter.
I think I have another Kraeuter set that's just sockets and the ratchet - no box, no extension, no spinner handle.