Kysor Johnson Model J Bandsaw

[DaveInHouston]

I just bought this beast of a horizontal Bandsaw today from a gentleman who closed his machine shop and retired. It weighs 800 pounds. Apparently a company called Dake is the successor to this brand name, and still makes a comparable saw? It’s filthy dirty, been sitting in a corner unused for years, but when we turned it on it purred like a kitten. Ultra smooth and quiet. Unfortunately it’s three phase so I’ll have to convert it to single phase but that’s not a big deal. It’s going to take a LOT of cleaning and painting to get it looking good but it appears to be mechanically in very good condition. I paid $500 for it, which I thought was a good deal but also got a roller conveyor table with it. Do any of you know anything about these saws?

 

[MushCreek]

That's a good saw. $500 isn't a bad deal, depending. In some areas, it's worth 2-3 times that. I've been running those for 45 years. The main thing after cleaning it up is assessing the condition, and tuning it up. Often, the blade guide bearings need some love. I'm working on a similar Kalamazoo, and the bearing were completely shot. Replacement ones were dirt cheap on ebay. Don't buy them from the manufacturer- measure them and see what size standard bearing they are. Mine were only a few dollars each.

You can either swap out the motor for a single phase, or use something like a phase converter or VFD to run the one it has.

Other common issues are the downfeed control (most are a hydraulic cylinder) and the coolant pump, if it has one. The saw will work much better, and the blades will last much longer with flood coolant.

Figure out what type of stock you'll be cutting, and get an appropriate blade. Fine tooth for structural stuff like angle iron and tubing; coarse for solid stock.

It should be easy to find a manual on-line for download. This will show you how to adjust the saw. Tuning up a saw like this is key to getting good accurate results.

As you dig into it, ask more questions if you have any. I completely rebuilt one years ago.

 

[tyyost]

We has a Johnson like that in our high school shop. It was great saw with the right blade. How well does your downfeed run? Looks like yours needs some cleaning and a vfd and you would be curing away. What size motor does it have?

 

[DaveInHouston]

Thanks so much for the reply. You’re correct on the downfeed control cylinder. He said it was leaking the last time it was used (8 years ago). I’m hoping a rebuild kit will put it back in order. I think they’re pretty simple? The tubing for the downfeed cylinder will need to be replaced for certain. I haven’t figured out yet whether the cooling system is electric or mechanical (saw is still on the trailer) but I definitely want it working too. I don’t plan on doing a complete disassembly and rebuild, but I do plan on doing a good cleanup, repair, tuneup and paint. Luckily I have a single phase motor laying around that will work. And good advice on the rollers. I’ll check on eBay for replacements rather than the manufacturer. Good news is that all the cast iron components appear to be in good shape with no cracks or breaks. It’s a much bigger saw than my little Dayton, and will take up a lot of room in the shop, but I couldn’t resist when I saw it on Marketplace. I’m a sucker for the old tools. Thanks again.

 

[DaveInHouston]

The downfeed cylinder is going to need a rebuild, but it’s all there. The motor is a 1 hp. I thought about a VFD or a converter, but I have another motor lying around the shop. I’ll have to rewire most everything on the saw but that’s OK. The blade is a 1 inch. The thing was filthy dirty, sitting in the corner of his old rundown shop, but it fired right up and ran smooth and quiet. Hopefully a good sign. Thanks.

 

[Doug Arthurs]

I use to repair one for a customer of mine. I haven't seen one in 10 years.

 

[MushCreek]

The coolant pumps are usually electric- a small Little Giant or equivalent. They're wired to the on-off switch. Speaking of which- the on-off switch should be set up so when it finishes the cut it hits the switch and shuts off. They're often damaged/misadjusted/missing altogether.

 

[DaveInHouston]

The coolant pumps are usually electric- a small Little Giant or equivalent. They're wired to the on-off switch. Speaking of which- the on-off switch should be set up so when it finishes the cut it hits the switch and shuts off. They're often damaged/misadjusted/missing altogether.

Surprisingly the on-off switch appeared to be original and was working properly. The shutoff working too. Best I can tell everything looks like it is unmodified from the factory. Surprised that the shavings pan was still in place. It’s beat up but intact. Thanks

 

[DaveInHouston]

Any ideas on original color? I’ve cleaned off some of the old nasty gray paint and it appears to be green underneath.

 

[MushCreek]

The ones I ran all seem to be a gray-green hammertone paint.

 

[DaveInHouston]

Mine has been painted gray but I think you’re right on the green hammertone.

 

[86turbodsl]

I have one of those. Johnson J, the grand-daddy of horizontal saws. Mine is so old it doesnt even have a serial number. Bought it local, found later that it was originally designed and made in the town i live in. Dake still makes it, and the design is nearly unchanged all the way back to the late 1930s.
Parts are no problem, call Dake. You got a good deal. Mine is / was somewhat broken and i gave nearly 400 for it. There's a decent following for the saw over on practical machinist also. Download the manuals from vintagemachinery.org.

Have fun with it.

 

[DaveInHouston]

Happy to hear that. It is built like a tank. Good news is that it’s all there and nothing apparently broken. I’ll get started on cleaning it up next weekend. Thanks

 

[matt_i]

I helped a guy rebuild his gearbox for it...arbor press & all of the mandrels and tubes he didn't have. Basic worm drive bronze + cast iron gearset immersed in oil Should run a hundred years if the oil is kept up & the proper oil is put in. I can't recall if he actually had a bad bearing or a bad seal, or if he was trying to flip it and advertise that all bearing had been replaced with new, I did realize he was a shyster extraordinaire and it cost him some extra but...it all escapes me now.

Seemed like it used a very common 56 frame- foot mount motor, something around 3/4 to 1hp.

If Mobil 600W was still around I'd use that but its shifted into something like SHC634 which you can get @ mCmaster carr in 1 gallon size.

 

[DaveInHouston]

The gearbox will be my first maintenance item. It runs very quiet and smooth so I’m hoping it’s okay. No apparent play in it that I can find. I’ll drain the lube and put new in. I’m going to replace the 3 phase, 1 hp motor with a single phase. I thought I had a 1 hp laying around but turns out I have a 1/2 hp and a 1 1/2 hp. I’ll probably put the bigger motor on it. Cleaned it down to some of the original paint and it’s almost an OD green. Thanks

 

[DaveInHouston]

I wondered when I bought the saw whether it had a mechanical or an electric cooling fluid pump. After taking a cover off I find that it has both. There is a relatively modern electric pump installed, which bypasses the original mechanical pump, which runs off of a gear on the driven blade wheel. Kysor clearly spent a lot money building that little pump and gear. It’s way over designed I’d say, but very cool. It’s why I like the old equipment. I assume it’s not working or the PO wouldn’t have bypassed it. I’ll disassemble the pump and see what the impeller looks like. If it’s working properly the pump is pumping coolant any time the blade is moving.

 

[DaveInHouston]

Been researching the old saw. Turns out it’s a Model JH, the H being for heavy duty. Got the 1 1/2 hp motor mounted and she runs like a champ. Going to replace all the guide bearings. Got it moved into the “old” shop to start working on it. Trying to identify the original paint color.

 

[DaveInHouston]

Got the old saw disassembled, paint stripped and pressure washed and sanded. There was tons of caked on, baked on gunk and rust. Repainted as close to original color as I could. Had to do a few welded repairs on the way. Replaced all six guide rollers and installed new blade cleaning brushes. Still have to rebuild the downfeed cylinder and the coolant pump, beat the sheetmetal covers and coolant pans straight and repaint them, then get everything bolted up, aligned and running. Progress.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

I have come across them in maintenance shops of old sawmills. They always worked well and cut straight. What more can you say about a bandsaw.

 

[DaveInHouston]

It has an elaborate and rigid system for aligning the blade. I’m sure it’ll take some time to get it properly set up but I think it will stay that way once complete. I called Dake, the current manufacturers of the Johnson saws and they could not have been more helpful. Turns out my saw is a 1975 model. Thought it was older but that’s okay. Bought a handful of parts and got them in a few days. Another couple of weekends and I should be finished.

 

[DaveInHouston]

More progress. Rebuilt the down feed cylinder and plumbed it up. It had a bunch of ratty plastic tubing and way too much of it so I replaced it with copper. The little brass reservoir on top was broken so replaced it with a drip reservoir. Works great now. I’ve been beating the coolant catch pans straight and will paint and reinstall them. Then to rebuild the little mechanical coolant pump. I don’t really do enough cutting to justify coolant but it’s on the saw so I want it working.

 

[MushCreek]

You will want the coolant pump. Trust me.

 

[DaveInHouston]

You will want the coolant pump. Trust me.

It’s next on the list.

 

[metlmunchr]

Set the head weight per the manual instructions using the adjustable spring that connects the saw frame to the base. Correct head weight is key to straight cuts and good blade life.

Insufficient weight causes the blade to rub rather than cut and prematurely dulls the blade. Too much weight causes the blade to deflect and cut crooked as measured from the top to the bottom of the cut. This tends to dull the corners of alternating teeth (due to the set in the teeth) and once that happens the blade will continue to cut crooked even if everything on the saw is properly adjusted.

 

[DaveInHouston]

Thanks. I didn’t realize the head weight had that much impact. The manual says to set it at 12 lbs. I’ll do that. Thanks again.

 

[DaveInHouston]

Got the chip pans beat semi straight and painted. Reinstalled the cut-off length gauge. Looks like a knee knocker but it’ll be handy. Removed, cleaned and disassembled the little Jabsco mechanical coolant pump expected the impeller to be bad, but it looks good. New ones are expensive! We’ll see. Got a working Little Giant electric pump with the saw so may hook them both up in parallel. Put a plastic turn knob on the end of the down feed control rod. Got to go get all new tubing for the coolant system. Then complete mounting all the 120v electrical stuff. Moving slow.

 

[macgee]

Johnson are awesome saws, nice job getting one. We have lots of them in my neck of the woods. I recommend spending some time cleaning the hinge joint thoroughly and also clean and derust & oil the spring and pins holding it, feel the hinge when lifting and dropping the head without the spring on, is it smooth? This will really improve the way the blade drops/feed while cutting that helps giving you cleaner, even cuts.

metlmunchr gave you good info and all of this will make your saw puuuurrr.

Mine had a hydraulic feed instead of a steel spring to drop/feed the blade, I deeply loved it and regret selling it daily.

Enjoy the saw

 

[DaveInHouston]

You seldom see them in my neck of the woods so I was happy to find it. May have paid a little too much at $500 but I’m okay with that. I’ve spent another $300 in various parts so close to $800 not counting labor. I think the new Dakes go for around $8k, which I’d never consider. I’d rather have an old one.....like me. I took the spring off and used an angle grinder with a wire brush to clean it down to shiny metal. The spring and down feed cylinder work really well now. I can’t walk by it without cycling it a few times just to watch it work.
Checked the main pivot pin by feel, greased it and it seems good. The entire saw was covered in a baked-on crud that took days of scraping and wire brushing to get clean. I stripped all external parts to bare metal before painting. I agree with you about the Johnson saw. It’s a beautifully designed piece of equipment. I don’t do enough work in my little hobby shop to justify a saw like that but I plan to keep it. Thanks.

 

[macgee]

Like you, I had the same feeling about having a small shop and felt I needed the space so I sold it to a friend; big mistake and really miss it, so useful when you need one. My friend wont even take my phone calls or invite me into his shop for fear that I'll want it back; he's right!

$500 is very fair, a cheap one around here is about $250 but there fairly common here and then you have to clean it up, fix it and tune it like you did. Here, for a good restored one, they go for way more. I've seen them posted for $1,500.
Johnson is one of the very best vintage horizontal saws out there and totally worth the investment, your grandchildren will enjoy using that one when they have their own shop and inherit it from you. It can consistently give you very clean and square cuts when tuned.

When cleaned up and detailed painted, they look very beautiful with their art deco look, they stand out.

Enjoy and happy sawing!

 

[DaveInHouston]

Thanks Macgee. It may be one of the great grandkids that winds up with it!

 

[DaveInHouston]

Getting close.

 

[Broth9640]

Do you mind sharing the paint color? She looks Amazing!

 

[That1Guy]

OK Dave, it's been nearly 2 years. What's the verdict on the old Model J? I have a chance at getting one and I'm curious as to how yours has turned out. If I get it, I plan to do a recon thread for it too.

 

[cvairwerks]

OK Dave, it's been nearly 2 years. What's the verdict on the old Model J? I have a chance at getting one and I'm curious as to how yours has turned out. If I get it, I plan to do a recon thread for it too.

You might try pm'ing Dave, as he hasn't logged in since January of this year.

 

[Hephaestus29]

I got mine for free quite some time ago, It needs attention but works so I haven’t taken time to rebuild it.

 

[RobCleveland]

Just picked up a model J at an online auction fro $200.
Its been converted to a 1/2 hp single phase and it seems adequate at slow speed.
It needs to have the downfeed cylinder rebuilt but other then that it works well.
Just wondering what size the blade is on it? It has a fine tooth on it now. Would like to get something with a courser pattern for the large stuff.
..........Rob

 

[RobCleveland]

Forgot to mention in the last post. I need the fibre gear that runs on the cast iron ring and powers the coolant pump.
Any idea where one of these could be purchased?
......Rob

 

[cvairwerks]

Rob: Best bet is try Dake for parts. I couldn't locate anything like it in the manual that I looked at. As to blades, lots of variations out there. You need to select the blade by what you are cutting in reality. I have a number of different blades for my bandsaw based on the material being cut. Blades are also commodity items, and there are a number of places that they can be ordered from. I've used bandsawbladesdirect for mine, for a number of years.

 

[Ultradog MN]

Forgot to mention in the last post. I need the fibre gear that runs on the cast iron ring and powers the coolant pump.
Any idea where one of these could be purchased?
......Rob

Those are great saws. I ran one while working my way through college 40 years ago and wanted one ever since.
Finally the stars aligned and I got one 3 years ago. I love the thing.
Some random thoughts:
Dake now owns the brand and some parts are still supported by them but very pricey - that pump gear included.
I bought a cheap electric water pump for a tile saw for $15? at Home Depot. Hooked it up so it turns on/off with the main switch. Put the pump in a pan and keep the water level ABOVE the top of the pan. That causes the metal sawdust to sink before it gets into the pump and ruins it.

I wanted to be able to move mine as needed and did not want to raise the height too much. So I built this skateboard for it. It raises the saw less than 1"


You can run 1" blades on it if you buy wider bearings for the guides. Mine was set up that way when I bought it.

 

[slowtwitch73]

I've got a model b that punches way over it's weight.. fast straight cuts over and over.