Lady Needs Help With Floor - PICS

[Durwoody]

I have a garage floor with a lot of problems and I have no idea what I should do. My garage has pits and gouges and lots of aggregate stone showing through and seems to be deteriorating. I want a solution that will improve the look of the floor, since I think it is structurally sound (no unevenness, sinking, heaving or moisture).

I would like to have it fixed, but cannot afford to tear out and start over. The house is about 10 years old. We are in Dallas so not a lot of salt issues here. We have been in the house for about 7 years. It is a 3-car, so about 660 sq feet.

I messed up because previously there was no paint on the floor, but I just spray painted 2 days ago (with a tarp) some patio chairs and got overspray on the garage floor so that adds another component to fix. I could kick myself. I thought I was being careful until I pulled up the tarp (you can see the difference in the photo).

There are so many options and I have looked at 14 pages of previous posts, but thought I would ask for some help.

I was not aware this was probably a poor initial pour job until I had a couple of people come by recently. One suggested epoxy flakes floor (no diamond etching, just cleaning and 2-3 coats) and another suggested quarry, tile or paver-like stone like an interior floor (that seemed nice, but think price might be too high).

I have looked at epoxy, but don't know what kind of prep would be needed for this type of damage and concerned about the pull up. The guy who suggested epoxy said the flakes would help hide the aggregate and other imperfections. Cost estimate was $2000. The guy with the quarry/tile suggestion said they would have to get up paint, would do some thinset to even out problems and then lay the tile (no estimate yet).

I have been looking at overlay. Is this a viable option? Would it fix the problem? How durable would it be? Could it be colored to be pretty? Okay, I am a girl so we like it to look nice. ;-) Can you throw flakes in the overlay like a epoxy finish to make it look pretty? How thick? Is this even the best solution for my problem? I have heard of self-leveling products...is this something I could do myself with some help? Any other suggestions? I don't want to do the click in tiles or race-track surfaces (too expensive). Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[JimVonBaden]

IMHO your floor is way too messed up for epoxy or similar. Your best bet would be a porcelain tile. Not that expensive, cheaper by far than epoxy if you look around.

Jim

 

[Cryptic1911]

I know you said click lock tiles are too expensive, but with the GJ discount, you could do Racedeck for about the same price that you were quoted for epoxy

 

[Falcon67]

IMHO, looks like you may be shopping for closeouts on tile there. Look at Jack Olsen's shop - it is a viable option. Epoxy won't cure a deteriorating floor and might just be money out the window.

 

[p_mori7]

A good cleaning, a coat of self levelling concrete to skim over all the imperfections, then a good coat of concrete paint. Probably about $300 in total.

 

[Garage Flooring]

I personally do not think coatings is a good solution here. If this were my floor I would use either the Better Life Technology Garage Floor mats or a Good garage floor tile --depending on the type of tile your going to want to put something underneath it but that is very inexpensive.

Email me your name and address and I will send samples.

Garage floor mats and tiles were designed to go over this type of floor. Regardless of who you buy from get full sized samples of tile first and samples of the mats as well. If you get mats I like the gray or black.

 

[dcs Inc]

This is a perfect slab for an overlay. Not a DIY project unless you are willing to come to a class and learn how to do it yourself. Elite Crete Systems has over 90 distribution centers world wide, 40 in the states and if you took a look you would find a center close to you. OK, enough sales talk.

You have had a lot of surface deterioration in some areas. Of course the concrete needs inspected and tested but this slab can be turned around with a hybrid polymer overlay system and be made better than new. You can visit www.elitecrete.com and then send an email requesting information on training or have a certified installer to do the work for you.

What needs to happen is to get down to a solid surface and rebuild from there. Once the surface has been restored, you have many options. Slate trowel texture, Micro Finish, thin Stamped Overlay. 53% solids acrylic sealer laced with MMA, water based epoxy, 100% solids solvent based high build epoxies.... the list goes on. You can go with the DIY kits here or opt to install Elite Crete Systems epoxy products. We have many products available to fit any color option, including the REFLECTOR Enhancer metallics. Cool stuff. Flake system, quartz or pigmented epoxies. Lots of options for DIY or have it professionally installed. We have several distributors in Texas. This can be done at less cost than replacing and will last.

Self leveling cementitious overlays are a PIA. They haven't gotten it figured out so they don't shrink crack and you still need to do some trowel work. Too many installers have come to me with these problems. Good for a underlayment coat but I question bonding and there are a lot of materials out there a lot less expensive for fillers.

 

[thegarageguy]

If you are going with a seamless flooring system, you floor must be diamond grinded or shot blasted. No true professional would acid etch, so if you find one that doesn't grind or shot blast, run the other way.

Next, a good contractor would do a moisture test to ensure whatever system he is offering will bond permanently.

We have done seamless flooring systems in much worse shape slabs......a microtopping like DCS is suggesting is one way to go, but that needs to be coated with an epoxy - poly system.

I would most likely offer a urethane concrete system, which is a waterproofer and a 1/4 inch self leveling product that you can chip into and seal

Here is a couple pics of nasty moisture problem and deteriorated slab we refinished. Done in 2 days

 

[dcs Inc]

Actually I wasn't suggesting a mircotopping, that's for really thin applications (our products). It may even take a coating of our Texture Pave to do final leveling. (Thin Finish would more than likely do great). Our coatings don't really need to be sealed either. They'll hold up fine with out sealing... they will get dirty easyier. You could seal with a 37% solids water based acrylic sealer, a 53% solids solvent based acrylic or pop up to a 50% and then a 75% solids urethane and if interested climb on up the ladder to the poly stuff you mention.

Nice looking project be the way.

 

[Durwoody]

Thank you everyone for the quick responses. I appreciate the additional information.

After reading all the current comments, I will hire someone to do this job, unless I select an option that could really be done by a novice. Budget wise, I think I would like to stay under $2200, BUT I don’t want to throw my money away on something that won’t last, is not asthetically pleasing to me or is not done properly, so having a skilled vendor is important to me.

I had two people out today. One is suggesting a polyaspartic coating system that looks like epoxy with the flakes. He said it is a better product and finish than regular epoxy. They will diamond grind, bullnose entry lip of garage and hand apply the finish to the 2” bottom part of the wall that meets the floor (I forgot what it is called). He did warn about discoloration from UV exposure but my garage is not open that often. He said the adherence was better than regular epoxy, they would fill the pitted and grooved out areas. He said this product does not have the hot tire peel and chipping as regular epoxy installs. I will so some research because this did seem like a nice product, BUT was it just a sales pitch? Anybody with experience with this product? What would be the life of this product. His warranty was "lifetime." When I asked to see the warranty he said it was on the proposal, but all that said was "Limited Lifetime Warranty." I will need to get further details of this warranty.

The other person was a concrete guy, but he only does tear outs and full redo's. He said he did not recommend this for my garage floor. His reasoning was the garage floor was part of the house slab and could cause problems if removed. He said I would need to contact a company that does custom concrete stamping or such for the overlay-type work.

P-mori7 – Your recommendation was what I was thinking about for a DIY project. I think I watch too much HGTV and DIY network. They just make everything look easy on TV. Just mix, pour and it levels itself, as if I really don't have to do much except prep the floor! LOL. I have never done any tile laying except when I did our patio table, but nothing huge.

Gene – I looked at concrete vs the polymer-like overlay and I would tend to agree that concrete overlay might not be the best option if I did an overlay. What do you mean by “get down to a solid surface?” Do you mean even under the aggregate that is showing?

Justin – You mentioned, “depending on the type of tile, you’re going to want to put something underneath.” My question is, something underneath like what? Some type of membrane? One thing you mentioned that I really never thought of was the mats. My vision of them was like yoga mats. When I viewed them online they actually looked really nice. Can you put them down with adhesive so they don’t move? What about edges curling up or the mats not staying close to each other for a seamless look? Is there a certain quality or weight that would wear well for driving in and out of garage and doing woodworking and other hobbies that require heavy tools? (No welding at this time, but you never know with me! LOL) Are they prone to tearing?

TheGarageGuy – Thank you for the tips for finding a vendor. I appreciate the photos because I am definitely a visual girl. The floor looks wonderful! Love it! I see you are in NY/NJ area. You sure you don’t want to move to Dallas?;-)

Justin and Gene - I will contact you for more information and thanks for the education.

I did go to Interceramic Tile today and my questions about tiling the garage floor were met with some amazement. They only had one customer they remembered who had a tiled garage, but it was only to park and show a Masserati. They looked through their catalog and came up with a tile called Rustic Lodge (looks somewhat like slate), that had a Breaking Strength rating of 1300 lbs per square foot and bonding strength of 149 psi. It cost $4.99 for 12 x 12. This would be $3300 just for the tile. I’ve read about those who have purchased porcelain tile for their garages at $1-2, so is the quality and weight rating on the tile important? What about the wear rating? She also showed me an 8x8 quarry tile which was nice looking but seemed a little fragile to me. If I decide to go the tile route is there a coating that can be applied so it is not slippery. I’ve read something about Shark Grip, is this something that is applied to a tile floor?

Thank you everyone for your comments and suggestions, it is really VERY helpful to me. I plan on making a decision about my choice in the next 3-4 days. I am going to be a very busy lady with vendor estimates and looking at products.

 

[dcs Inc]

Durwoody, No matter what you go with it's only as good as what you put it on. If the concrete isn't stable, don't go over it. Remove anything that is loose on top and rebuild the surface from there.

Take your time when listening to bidders. Ask for references and if you can see some of their work.

A limited "life time warranty" may have so many holes in it that doesn't mean a thing. Good luck with your project!

 

[dcs Inc]

Designer wanted a "moon" surface. This floor is really smooth.

 

[JimVonBaden]

You can get porcelain tiles, do not use ceramic, for under $1 a square foot. It is a fairly simple DIY project, or have it applied for $2-3 a square foot. This, IMHO, is the easiest and most long lasting fix to your floor.

Check out Jack's garage, as noted and you will see.

Jim

 

[thegarageguy]

yeah, we get some doozys as well.....

This one had multiple layers of failed underlayment. This Coop had been struggling for years between carpet and tiles buckling and failing.

Here is the before

Here we are removing the failed layers of underlayments

On this project we used an acrylic modified self leveling at 1/2 inch first, then applied a 1/4 inch a Urethane concrete to waterproof and self level, as you see here

Here we are applying multiple coats of decorative concrete microtopping

This is the finished product (7 days worth of work)

 

[Garage Flooring]

>>>Justin – You mentioned, “depending on the type of tile, you’re going to want to put something underneath.” My question is, something underneath like what? Some type of membrane? One thing you mentioned that I really never thought of was the mats. My vision of them was like yoga mats. When I viewed them online they actually looked really nice. Can you put them down with adhesive so they don’t move? What about edges curling up or the mats not staying close to each other for a seamless look? Is there a certain quality or weight that would wear well for driving in and out of garage and doing woodworking and other hobbies that require heavy tools? (No welding at this time, but you never know with me! LOL) Are they prone to tearing?>>>

Regarding the tiles an inexpensive landscape fabric or foam underlayment used for floating wood floors works great.

Regarding mats: The product lays very flat, even without adhesive and does not tend to move. I would go with the 75 Mil in coin or diamond. You can use a seam tape between each section or we even have a DIY molding that can be used.

If you decide to go with a coating, as much as we all love to tout our systems, for any job, and especially this job your biggest concern is your installer. If he does not do the prep (which has new meaning in this case) correctly, you could coat your floor with liquid Teflon and still have an issue.

The same is true of any product that is adhered, glued or otherwise attached. Thats why I like tiles and mats for a job like this.

 

[Edger]

Durwoody, I have seen many floors identical to yours and they are all softer than concrete should be, especially the top which is above the stones. It wears away very easily and if you stand on it in solid shoes and twist a few times you will have dust under your feet.

All coatings adhere to the concrete so if you put some shock load (drop heavy things) on the coating the join between the concrete and coating might fail leading to dusty bubbles below the finish which will eventually break.

Jack Olsen showed a step by step process of tiling which seems better for you than a topping. However I believe you should still hire a contractor to remove the top of the floor to show the stones so that the mortar under the tiles will sit and adhere to a stronger surface which everyone recommends. I am not a tiler, but it appears from Jack's posts that it is important to put sufficient mortar under the tiles.

If you got a contractor to do the tiling, warn that person before they quote that the concrete is softer than normal and very porous so they work in smaller areas and put more primer on the floor first. If the primer and mortar dry out too quickly that could cause the tile mortar to come loose later.

The good thing about tiles is that they do not transfer the shock of a heavy drop through to the softer concrete as easily as a coating or topping would. I do not know about the cost of tiles, but there are posts here that talk about very low cost and very strong durability. With a softer floor you must put a bit more into the project so that it has the added protection above it. Perhaps you could go for grinding and a more expensive tile installer (to do a really good job) and save on the actual cost of the tiles.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

I love coatings but unless this is the place they will bury you, get on the horn with Justin and get some racedeck or equal.

 

[Durwoody]

Thanks for all the suggestions and comments. I checked out Jack Olsen's garage and agree the tile looks great. Heck, I'd take his entire garage! LOL I have a couple of vendors coming on Monday to take a look, but I have to say that after all the input, I am leaning towards tile or mats.

I wish you fantastic installers were in my area, your floors look amazing. I think the epoxy/polyaspartic coating systems are so dependent on whether the installer is good and does the proper prep, that I don't want to take that chance right now with my money. Maybe, down the line I might consider it, if a rich uncle leaves me an inheritance. I'll keep you posted on my decision and appreciate all the helpful responses.

After the floor and garage are completed, I'll post before and after photos. If you think of anything else, I would love to hear from you. Thanks again. You all are awesome!

 

[dmaic]

I shot you a PM, hope that helps

 

[Jack Olsen]

Thanks, Durwoody!

 

[Turbota]

I just finished my 3-car garage floor useing 20" x 20" porcelain tiles I bought at Lowes.

The actual size of the garage is 30' W x 19.5' D

Here is the price breakdown:
____________________________

Tile Brand:
Tilecrest 'Illusion'

Lowes Model #:
353779

Color:
Novona Z3013

Material:
Glazed Porcelain

Tile Edge:
Rectified

Size:
20" x 20"

Thickness:
3/8" (9.55 mm)

PEI Rating:
Class 4

Box Quantity:
6 Tiles

Coverage per Box:
16.66 Sq. Ft.

Total Floor Area:
585 Sq. Ft.
______________________________

Tiles:
$ 20.55 per box
37 Boxes
$ 760

Thinset Dry Mortar (Ultraflex 1):
$ 11.31 per 50 lb. Bag
11 Bags
$ 124

Sanded Grout (Keracolor):
$ 11.95 per 25 lb. Bag
2 Bags
$ 24

Delivery Charge:
$ 29

Tax:
$ 56

Installation Labor (Found the tile installer on Craigs List):
$ 1.50 per Sq. Ft.
585 Sq. Ft.
$ 878

(Prices above includes a Lowes 10% Military Discount on all Materials)

Total Cost: $ 1,871 ($ 3.20 per Sq. Ft. Installed)

Also bought a 120' roll of vinyl wall cove molding at Lowes for about $80 and installed it where the walls meet the floor ... made for a nice finishing touch.

I need to get some photos that show the complete floor, but this photo will give you an idea as to what it looks like:

 

[slickgt1]

I vote for tile too. And jack has ceramic tile, which has held up great as well.

If you really want a floor to last, tile. Or something modular like Racedeck. But tile for the no maintenance, and durability. Imagine you over spray on top of your epoxy. You might be screwed when you go to clean it up with paint thinner. Not so on the tile. I've used a wire brush on a grinder on my tiles to get rid of spilled PL Premium.

 

[Durwoody]

Well all,
I received samples from two vendors (Thanks Justin and Tuffseal). I am awaiting a quote from Racedeck. I tried to call but was on hold for a long time. I had several people for porcelain tile install, most bids were in the $2800 + tile range.

One vendor suggested the following as an option for my deteriorating floor. I must make a decision by Wednesday. I thought I would be done with options by now. :-(

PROPOSAL: Grind the concrete floor to even out the exposed aggregate and apply 2 coats of clear sealer to imitate polished concrete but with an easy to clean and chemically resistant top coat. He also said would eliminate my concern about hot tire pick up. It would also be fine with a grit coating (extra $75).

Floor PREP: Grind the floor with a planetary grinder to level out the concrete surface and expose the aggregate to balance out with other areas. They can't guarantee there will be even exposure to the aggregate because they did not do the mix. Initial grinding estimate is for 6 hours for a 3 car garage. Each additional hour of grinding will be billed at $90 per hour.

Once grinding level is approved, apply one coat of clear Versatile Building Products 4195 epoxy primer to the concrete and let dry. Once dry, apply one coat of clear Versatile Building Products polyurea to the epoxy.

The total cost for this was around $2200. If I want a colored concrete dye prior to the epoxy primer, that would also be an extra $630.

It's a little over my budget, but if it is something that would last, I don't mind paying a little extra. Probably won't do the concrete dye though. I don't think I would mind the exposed aggregate look...so long as the floor is consistent-looking. He said at a later time, this would not interfere with my putting down any other kind of flooring.

What are your thoughts? Would this be a viable alternative?

 

[Durwoody]

Forgot to mention. This vendor use the term densifying the concrete if it was soft. They would use a product that would permeate the top layer and close the pores, tightening and strengthening the concrete and making it harder. That would be an extra cost if needed (about $300). He did mention doing a vapor moisture test.

 

[felixgogo]

Hi,

After reading your thread about your floor, I would seriously recommend you review the garage plastic floor tiles options.

These are perfect (IMO) in your case, and with shopping around I am confident you could easily do this well winthin your budget.

For example, I looked at my floor supplier - Ecotile in the UK, and they could do a special offer for 660 sq ft at 1700 USD. I used this special offer myself, and chose a end of line light grey floor which has proved to be brilliant in use. I put a layer of garden fabric down first, the cheap black stuff you use to kill off weeds, and then layed the tile straight on top.

No-one has a worst floor then me, the property is rumoured to be 1750s built, the garage section wss the public bar barrel storage room, with rough cast tiles, that have 1/2 ich gaps cast into them and the floor slops over 5 inches within 15 feet. The plastic / rubber floor tiles goes straight over all this. The install time? One morning.

One final advatange of these tiles, you can take them with you when you move. So they are an investment, not a write off cost. They are dryer, warmer, and easier to clean up and easier on your feet. Check my thread..

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102265

...for more info and pictures.

I totally respect those suggest ceramic tiles, epoxy, paint etc, but all these require massive prep, and you have to leave them behind when you move.

I am totally sold on rubber / plastic tiles, I will always use these from now on.

I hope this helps!
Ian

PS - I liked them so much, I fitted a slate version in my hall in the house, they look great!

 

[dcs Inc]

Durwoody, I remember your floor. I think this would work if it's just the surface that looked soft. The contractor has a lot of open doors on his bid and I'm sure he will need to walk through a couple of them. Densifier for sure. Ask him to what level of gloss he will be taking it up to. The dye is a little high but I understand his thoughts. It will be difficult to place evenly with varying porosities of the surface.

 

[bdamico]

Well all,
I received samples from two vendors (Thanks Justin and Tuffseal). I am awaiting a quote from Racedeck. I tried to call but was on hold for a long time. I had several people for porcelain tile install, most bids were in the $2800 + tile range.

You're getting ripped off. I used to live in Dallas. You need to look on craigslist. there are lots of people, with good reps and big companies that will do your floor for less than $2 a foot. You can get tile for $1... I moved to Florida but I got my floor done with very nice expensive porcelain tile ($9/ft retail) for around $4 a foot installed (like $1.50/ft labor including baseboards).

 

[Garage Flooring]

Good luck with your project!