Large Overhead Storage Shelf

[ngoldenm]

Hi guys. Great forum here. I've searched all around, but haven't quite found the answer I'm looking for.

My 2-car garage is approximately 23' wide by 20' deep with 12' ceilings. There is access to the ceiling joists from above. They run parallel to the wall where the shelf will be mounted.

I would like to make the shelf span the entire width of the back of the garage (23'). I plan to build the shelf in 8' sections with 2x4 frame and plywood top. These sections will be bolted together once in place on the wall to tie them together. I plan to lag bolt through the 2x4s along the side walls and back walls into every stud along the way. The front will be supported by 4 all-thread rods spaced evenly running through the shelf and up through 2x4s that will span a couple of the ceiling joists in the attic.

I don't plan to put a ton of weight on the shelves, but I also realize that eventually a bunch of stuff will get put up there could get quite heavy. Once completed, I plan to put plywood on the bottom of the shelf as well and paint it to match the walls to give it a more finished look.

So, do you guys think that the 2x4 frame lag botled to the walls is enough support on the back side of the shelves? Should I use larger boards (2x6) or use a ledger board (don't want to use this if I can help it. And will 4 all-thread rods be enough front support?

Thanks in advance. I appreciate it.

 

[Wackerjr]

I am in no way a structural engineer but..... I do know enough to get me in trouble......

2x4's are in no way going to span that kind of distance, to span that kind of distance you are going to have to go with LARGE lumber, OR manufactured ibeams.....According to this table here you need a TJI 560 to clear that kind of span on 16 " centers......

You will not need to tie into the roof with this option, but your ledgers better be notched into the joists and proper hangers etc to support the weight.....

It can be done, it aint gonna be cheap, And you really should get with an architect/engineer to make sure your walls can support it......

 

[smedly]

I have a similar setup except for the threaded rod- and I'm not an engineer. How deep will the shelves be? Mine are 4' and anything heavy-ish goes to the back near the wall. Wall carries half, the other half hangs from the ceiling. Its pretty strong, but I'm not storing engine blocks up there.
I think this thread may have some ideas for you.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=580888#post580888

 

[ddawg16]

To repeat what you said.....your ceiling trusts run parallel to the wall....and planned shelf.

Your basic question is....will that truss carry the weight?

Well.....depending on how yo load the shelf....about half the weight will be carried by the back wall. Hence, the other half by the ceiling joist.

Assuming you have trusses up above that are part of the ceiling joist...I think you will be fine....especially if you use a 2x to span across a couple of joists...spreads the load.

Since you said your going all the way across.....I'm going to assume that the ends will be anchored against the adjacent wall? If so, that will make for a very strong self in the corner and is where you would want to put heavy items.

BTW....use grade 1 lumber....not the knotty **** at HD....less knots means less bend....

 

[claymont]

Looks like these builds are based on unistrut lagged to the the ceiling joists and supporting deck from underneath. If you don't mind some metal showing, this looks to be a fairly simple build. If I were doing it and had an open ceiling, I'd put the strut on top of the joists instead of lagging from underneath.
http://www.garagestorageloftbuilders.com/lofts.htm

 

[rasit]

I'd put the strut on top of the joists instead of lagging from underneath.
http://www.garagestorageloftbuilders.com/lofts.htm

Bingo...

 

[5lima30]

Sounds like it would work...with reasonable weight on shelf. I would definitely use a cleat/ledger board to ease installation and give you something to screw into. I would also add some 2x4's cut on 45 degrees every 4 ft as angle braces and fastened to the wall below, that would transfer more load onto the wall and less on the trusses. YYMV.

 

[FJ 432]

It can be done, it aint gonna be cheap, And you really should get with an architect/engineer to make sure your walls can support it......

X2. Get a structural engineer involved. They can give you ideas of how to build it and what your weight limit may be according to whats there.

 

[cdrewferd]

X2. Get a structural engineer involved. They can give you ideas of how to build it and what your weight limit may be according to whats there.

Never knew you needed a structural engineer to help you build a shelf.

If the joist runs "parallel" to the wall then do as above and get some unistrut, and put it on top of the joists in the attic. Span from the wall to maybe the next joist. This should be fine.

 

[csp]

It should be fine provided you just put lighter things up there.

I don't see any mention of how deep this shelf will be though.

 

[olds70supreme]

In addition to the support from the ceiling, you could add a post somewhere in the center that provides support from the floor. Depending on your equipment layout this could be done w/o getting in your way. For example, if you had an air compressor/tool box/blast cabinet/etc centered on the wall in question you could drop the post down right next to it and it wouldn't be in the way. I'm thinking sistered 2x4s or a 4x4 would work.

 

[Wackerjr]

Never knew you needed a structural engineer to help you build a shelf.

If the joist runs "parallel" to the wall then do as above and get some unistrut, and put it on top of the joists in the attic. Span from the wall to maybe the next joist. This should be fine.

the problem has nothing to do with a "shelf" it has to do with spanning 23'..........

I guess the next questions would be how far out from the wall are we talking? Is the OP calling it large because it is going the entire back wall? or is it large because he is coming out 12 feet (in which case the joists can't handle that big of a "shelf"

Problem with the internet is there are to many Variables to just say "oh your fine" the trusses will take it....

To the OP give us some more info, how far out from the wall, maybe a phot of desired place, and such.......

Hell 23' span with 2x4's I would not go more than 8' apart on the "struts" that means that the outer edge of that "shelf" is going to be held up by 1-4 trusses at best........ not like going perpendicular to the trusses where you are spreading the load across prob 8 or more, and close to the bearing point on the wall for the truss......

Hence the engineer comment... anything can be done, and if he is stuck on putting the shelf where originally stated. Then a FREEEEEEEE phone call to an engineer will give you your answers...... But be prepared he will want all the info to, as well as what truss design etc.

I always err on better to be safe than putting anew roof on your house......


And FYI I am not against hanging from the trusses, I got all kinds of **** up there, just need to make sure it can handle the load......

FYI a 23x4 shelf rated at a standard 40lbpsf = 3680lbs hangin from that truss........ just a thought. on edit even half of that is still 1850+

 

[ngoldenm]

Wow, way more responses than I thought I would get. Thanks guys! Let me clarify a couple of things.

I'm not talking about storing engine blocks or anything like that. The plan right now is to store some of our boat toys (deflated tubes, extra life jackets, etc), my collection of coolers, possibly a couple of power tools in their boxes, and maybe some christmas decorations/tree. Light, bulky things will go up here. The heavy things will stay on the ground, if for no other reason than it will be a pain to get them up there.

"Large shelf" was probably the wrong word. "Long shelf" is more like it. I only plan on this being 3' deep. This is not going to be a loft.

And I had no idea that I would need a structural engineers opinion to build a 3 ft deep shelf for storing empty coolers and christmas decorations. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I actually am an engineer, but not a structural one. I deal with thermodynamics and energy which does not help me here.

Now, I'll try to answer some of the specific questions.

Assuming you have trusses up above that are part of the ceiling joist...I think you will be fine....especially if you use a 2x to span across a couple of joists...spreads the load.

Yes, there are trusses above.

Since you said your going all the way across.....I'm going to assume that the ends will be anchored against the adjacent wall?

Yes, the shelf will be anchored into the adjacent wall on both ends, along with being anchored into each stud along the back wall.

I would also add some 2x4's cut on 45 degrees every 4 ft as angle braces and fastened to the wall below, that would transfer more load onto the wall and less on the trusses.

I would do that if I had the extra room underneath. Space underneath the shelf is at a premium, and I would prefer to not have the angle braces underneath if I can help it.

If the joist runs "parallel" to the wall then do as above and get some unistrut, and put it on top of the joists in the attic. Span from the wall to maybe the next joist. This should be fine.

I like the unistrut idea better than 2x4s spanning a couple of joists. I will plan on doing that.

In addition to the support from the ceiling, you could add a post somewhere in the center that provides support from the floor.

As I said, space below is at a premium, and I would like to avoid anything below if at all possible.

Keep the opinions coming. I appreciate them.

 

[csp]

the problem has nothing to do with a "shelf" it has to do with spanning 23'..........

Nothing is spanning 23' unsupported. I have a feeling you aren't picturing what the OP is planning on building.

I only plan on this being 3' deep. This is not going to be a loft.

And I had no idea that I would need a structural engineers opinion to build a 3 ft deep shelf for storing empty coolers and christmas decorations.

You left the door wide open for how deep it would be and what you'd be storing, so of course the caution police who assume worst case scenario first just had to jump in. If they had looked at the link you provided they might have had a better idea of your intentions.

 

[StingRay]

If you keep the shelf at 2 ft deep and 2 feet down you can run chain from the leading edge back at an angle to the top plate and attach with lag hooks or eyes. At the wall I lag it in every stud and at the end walls I lag it in there too. I have this and use chains every 4 feet. if you want 3 feet you would want to be about 3 feet down to keep the angle on the chain to no more than 45 degrees. By doing this you avoid attaching to the trusses (if you have trusses) at all. A shelf like this has the limitation of the chain in the way but I have no problems with it. It is very very strong. Do you have Joist or trusses by the way. Joists can generally handle additional load. The bottom chords of trusses can not.

 

[z28snksknr]

I didn't consult a structural engineer, but mine is pretty strong and stores heavier "stuff" than what you mentioned.

2x4 ledger screwed to studs along the wall, 4 supporting chains hung from the joists, 24" on center frame with 1/2" plywood shelf surface.

It has ~400 lbs. loaded on it and I can jump up and hang on it (200 lbs) without it moving or making a sound. It spans my 2 car garage minus the door width.

 

[mdbeck1]

To the OP..

Is the ceiling open? Why not run 2X from the front of the shelf to the decking (under side of the roof) and fasten at BOTH parts of the Joist with bolts instead of lag bolting?


Oh, and storing the LIGHT bulky things up there is how it starts. I'd run a 2X12 across the top of the bottom chord of the trusses. It's sturdy enough and strong enough to hold a LOT of stuff for a short time. We used to lift engines that way (with a steel bar on top of it). When we pulled engine + transmission we would run 4X4s from the 2X12 to the ground. You'd be surprised how much the roof would flex.

 

[Wackerjr]

I took it as a "loft type situation.....

For a 3 foot shelf I would do as the others have said, make sure to span a few trusses, and I would not hesitate to do as pictured above.....

I was thinking more in the lines of 23 ft x say 10 ft that is a different story....

But a "shelf" to hold plastic tubs and such.... I would go for it.... I always prefer to run perpendicular to the trusses so the weight can be distributed among more trusses than one.....

 

[ngoldenm]

If you keep the shelf at 2 ft deep and 2 feet down you can run chain from the leading edge back at an angle to the top plate and attach with lag hooks or eyes. At the wall I lag it in every stud and at the end walls I lag it in there too. I have this and use chains every 4 feet. if you want 3 feet you would want to be about 3 feet down to keep the angle on the chain to no more than 45 degrees. By doing this you avoid attaching to the trusses (if you have trusses) at all. A shelf like this has the limitation of the chain in the way but I have no problems with it. It is very very strong. Do you have Joist or trusses by the way. Joists can generally handle additional load. The bottom chords of trusses can not.

There are joists with "trusses" above. I would really just call them rafters though. The joists are what is going to be taking this load.

I didn't consult a structural engineer, but mine is pretty strong and stores heavier "stuff" than what you mentioned.

2x4 ledger screwed to studs along the wall, 4 supporting chains hung from the joists, 24" on center frame with 1/2" plywood shelf surface.

It has ~400 lbs. loaded on it and I can jump up and hang on it (200 lbs) without it moving or making a sound. It spans my 2 car garage minus the door width.

That is almost identical to what I plan on doing. Mine will just have a longer span and use threaded rod instead of chains. Good to hear it can hold quite a bit of weight. Do your joists run parallel or perpendicular to the wall pictured?

To the OP..

Is the ceiling open? Why not run 2X from the front of the shelf to the decking (under side of the roof) and fasten at BOTH parts of the Joist with bolts instead of lag bolting?


Oh, and storing the LIGHT bulky things up there is how it starts. I'd run a 2X12 across the top of the bottom chord of the trusses. It's sturdy enough and strong enough to hold a LOT of stuff for a short time. We used to lift engines that way (with a steel bar on top of it). When we pulled engine + transmission we would run 4X4s from the 2X12 to the ground. You'd be surprised how much the roof would flex.

No, the ceiling is finished.

And, yeah, I know that light is where it starts. That's why I want to make sure that it can hold a decent amount of weight just in case.

I think that I'm going to "borrow" your design, z28snksknr, with a few tweaks. Thanks for the ideas.

 

[ngoldenm]

I took it as a "loft type situation.....

For a 3 foot shelf I would do as the others have said, make sure to span a few trusses, and I would not hesitate to do as pictured above.....

I was thinking more in the lines of 23 ft x say 10 ft that is a different story....

But a "shelf" to hold plastic tubs and such.... I would go for it.... I always prefer to run perpendicular to the trusses so the weight can be distributed among more trusses than one.....

Yeah, sorry about that. I forgot to mention the depth of the shelf in the original post.

 

[rickycobra]

I would caution something like this if you could post some pictures maybe that may help some better judgments.

 

[regguy1]

You could build a heavy duty version of this:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65557

 

[usmc_noma]

My garage has 10' ceilings and at one point I was going to build a loft that spanned the width of the garage at 14'. Instead I decided to make a modified version of the below link. Instead of a set of cabinets they built, I built one long set from wall to wall. I have it all up but the doors and tracks. Mine is 14'x2'x3'. I don't have any pics of it yet though.

http://www.familyhandyman.com/DIY-P...installing-large-garage-cabinets/Step-By-Step

 

[robmarch]

My garage has 10' ceilings and at one point I was going to build a loft that spanned the width of the garage at 14'. Instead I decided to make a modified version of the below link. Instead of a set of cabinets they built, I built one long set from wall to wall. I have it all up but the doors and tracks. Mine is 14'x2'x3'. I don't have any pics of it yet though.

http://www.familyhandyman.com/DIY-P...installing-large-garage-cabinets/Step-By-Step

I'm considering doing 20' of this at 4' tall on my garage's back wall, and would be interested in seeing your pictures, and your thoughts on this build.

 

[z28snksknr]

There are joists with "trusses" above. I would really just call them rafters though. The joists are what is going to be taking this load.



That is almost identical to what I plan on doing. Mine will just have a longer span and use threaded rod instead of chains. Good to hear it can hold quite a bit of weight. Do your joists run parallel or perpendicular to the wall pictured?



No, the ceiling is finished.

And, yeah, I know that light is where it starts. That's why I want to make sure that it can hold a decent amount of weight just in case.

I think that I'm going to "borrow" your design, z28snksknr, with a few tweaks. Thanks for the ideas.

My joists are perpendicuilar, but the nice thing about using chains is that you can extend out to the next joist if you desire. Perhaps on the ends and the middle you could run two chains to the neighboring joists, then your threaded rod otherwise. That way you tie into 3 joists.

I chose the chain for this reason so that the support for the shelf (the chain)was not taking up any of the storage space. In other words, I didn't have to work my storage around them. It also makes leveling the shelf a 1 person job since you can just twist the eye bolts to get more tension and level the shelf. For you, this would adjust the load on the neighboring joists.

 

[mtmancaves]

I am looking at doing almost the exact same thing.
The differences -
It will be 30'6" wide but still 3 feet deep.
Garage is finished so I want to build it so late I can sheet rock the bottom and face, but just using plywood on top to start out.

What I need help with - how many supports should I put in? I would like to use as few as possible but still not have to worry about putting a plastic bin that is 50# plus up there. I am thinking of using 4x4 from the rafters so I can sheetrock them easily.

Any help would be appreciated, glad I found this post!

Thanks

 

[JOHN 86GT]

I've thought about this and would like to use pallet racking like this

http://estore.sjf.com/sjf.nsf/0/AF1...id=CJiSwO2moLQCFY9DMgod6T4AIg&Count=5&EndVars

If you do a search in your area , many placed sell used pallet racking.

I'd like to do two 144" sections (24 ft) so I can park the nose of a car under one side .