Largest copper pipe I can solder with propane torch?
- Thread starter HotRodMan
- Start date
coljar
Well-known member
Bigger than you'll ever need. All the plumbing, including the 4 inch copper sewer piping in my house was done with a hand held propane torch. Can you imagine how much it would cost me to do that now.
Zeke
Well-known member
+1 on plenty big. I don't think you need anything like 1 1/2 " pipe and swimming pool plumbers do that all the time with propane.
Leaflessshadetree
Well-known member
Lots of plumbers use mapp gas. I needed two (could have used 3) propane torches to sweat brass fittings on some thick wall 1 1/2" copper, didn't help that it was underground.
gregtwojeeps
Well-known member
I have sweated 2 inch copper with a Mapp handheld torch and it was a stretch but worked o.k..
Sweating anything larger than two inch with a hand held torch will be difficult to keep the heat even around the pipe/fitting so the solder will draw in adequately. The plumbers I see use a acetylene tank/hose/torch to sweat 2" pipes and over in size. jmo
Sweating anything larger than two inch with a hand held torch will be difficult to keep the heat even around the pipe/fitting so the solder will draw in adequately. The plumbers I see use a acetylene tank/hose/torch to sweat 2" pipes and over in size. jmo
koditten
Well-known member
1"Cu pipe for plain old propane compressed gas. Anything bigger get the Map Pro stuff that they sell at HD or Lowes. It is propane with a bit of butane to make it hotter. True Mapp gas is getting hard to come by anymore.
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
Really the only time you would need to go hotter is if you were using a high % silver solder for higher pressure stuff (i.e. an A/C unit)... I concur with everyone else you would be fine with a plain old propane.
gregtwojeeps
Well-known member
Every time I go to the supply house to pick up copper pipes I get these duty ratings mixed up.
...Why didn't they make a "pipe duty rating for dummies" lettered like this :
M= medium duty
L= light duty
H= heavy duty
mygarageone
Well-known member
M copper has been used for yrs in residential home
L has been used for commercial mostly
K very seldom used any more unless it for underground water service.
If you use K , I hope you have access to a bank vault.
L has been used for commercial mostly
K very seldom used any more unless it for underground water service.
If you use K , I hope you have access to a bank vault.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
MrMark
Well-known member
1 inch is about the limit for Mapp-Pro and Propane. As OldWizard posted, it makes no difference which one you choose. Anything larger and you will have to hold the torch on the fitting so long it will burn the flux. 1 inch takes an agonizingly long time with Mapp-Pro so anything over that would be suspect in quality of jointing. The torch head is actually far more important than the fuel.
mygarageone
Well-known member
I still have several bottles of the real Mapp gas from 10 yrs ago. Saved them from my commercial contracting company .
Fastfish
Well-known member
I have soldered 3" copper with a small hand held torch. Before assembling, I tinned the male parts and all went together with no leaks.
mygarageone
Well-known member
Takes a lot of time and gas though , but try the cast brass stuff , not sure it can happen. But the nice thing about cast brass ftgs , when they got hot the solider flows so nice.
I spent my apprenticeship working with copper waste and vent and HX cast iron pipe . leak and oakum until the gaskets came along.
DirtRoad
Well-known member
No reason one would need anything more than type m.
mygarageone
Well-known member
Agreed , there was a big discussion about type M being used for compressed air awhile ago.
A couple of people highly disagreed with this opinion.
MonoxieChild
Well-known member
What i was told is they cant sell it anymore as of a few years ago. They fully fazed out Mapp, and replaced it with Mapp Pro. I was working for a plumbing supply company at the time, and as soon as we were told that, i bought 4 bottles of pure Mapp we had on the shelf. Sadly im down to my last two bottles.
shooting4life
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2012
- Messages
- 334
M for air pipe is fine, this is from my brother who is a pipe fitter
mygarageone
Well-known member
Interesting , that's the opposite position a couple pipe ftg on this forum said ?
But I agree with your brother.
coljar
Well-known member
I was wrong in my earlier post when I stated the copper sewer pipe in my house is 4". It's actually 3". The smaller piping is 1 1/2".
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Everything in the pictures was done with a hand held propane torch and there is far more copper plumbing than pictured. As you see, the bigger pipe can be done, so you can easily do the size pipe you need. The top picture is sideways.
Everything in the pictures was done with a hand held propane torch and there is far more copper plumbing than pictured. As you see, the bigger pipe can be done, so you can easily do the size pipe you need. The top picture is sideways.
b974k
Active member
I had a very difficult time with 1 1/2" bronze fittings I since have bought an acetylene torch
I was wrong in my earlier post when I stated the copper sewer pipe in my house is 4". It's actually 3". The smaller piping is 1 1/2".
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Everything in the pictures was done with a hand held propane torch and there is far more copper plumbing than pictured. As you see, the bigger pipe can be done, so you can easily do the size pipe you need. The top picture is sideways.
Lovely workmanship.
Al.
coljar
Well-known member
Thank you. I've probably sweated a couple of miles of copper pipe if I include
here at the plant, but I love doing it even more than threading pipe. Potable water in new garage will be pex do to cost.
M is for heating
L is for potable
K is for hvac lines and underground water lines
Aside from strength corrosion is also a factor. M is thinner and will have a shorter service life if the potable water is corrosive. In a boiler little fresh water enters the system so once the initial fill reacts and goes neutral corrosion is a mute point. You can also add corrosion inhibitors. Most underground water lines are no longer run in copper, at least around here it's PP or PE with insert adapters or fusionweld.
For the price you could probably buy a 120$ hand crimper, plastic fittings, and twice as much pipe if you did pex instead of copper. So you could run a medium sized line from the source to each appliance with the only real restriction being your manifold which you could probably afford to do in brass fittings if corrosion is a concern. Other wise for the cost if supply size is most important go with black iron and rent a threader, threading pipe is easier than soldering and much more consistent if you have good dies.
One thing to keep in mind is that plastic pipe won't dissipate as much heat and you may end up with moister air so if you use it to paint you may want a buffer tank with a drain before the spray gun to cool and condense any humidity and help particles to fall out.
DO NOT USE GALVANIZED PIPE.
Sorry for the necro post but this is a common situation and this thread shows up a lot in related google searches.
L is for potable
K is for hvac lines and underground water lines
Aside from strength corrosion is also a factor. M is thinner and will have a shorter service life if the potable water is corrosive. In a boiler little fresh water enters the system so once the initial fill reacts and goes neutral corrosion is a mute point. You can also add corrosion inhibitors. Most underground water lines are no longer run in copper, at least around here it's PP or PE with insert adapters or fusionweld.
For the price you could probably buy a 120$ hand crimper, plastic fittings, and twice as much pipe if you did pex instead of copper. So you could run a medium sized line from the source to each appliance with the only real restriction being your manifold which you could probably afford to do in brass fittings if corrosion is a concern. Other wise for the cost if supply size is most important go with black iron and rent a threader, threading pipe is easier than soldering and much more consistent if you have good dies.
One thing to keep in mind is that plastic pipe won't dissipate as much heat and you may end up with moister air so if you use it to paint you may want a buffer tank with a drain before the spray gun to cool and condense any humidity and help particles to fall out.
DO NOT USE GALVANIZED PIPE.
Sorry for the necro post but this is a common situation and this thread shows up a lot in related google searches.
matt_i
Well-known member
Re: the large diameter pipe....just get (borrow or buy) another propane torch and use a helper who need be only smart enough not to set something on fire with it. If they just bathe the fitting in question with the flame there will be enough heat input.
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Reading the comment - Renting a threader and using black pipe is easier than soldering copper? Makes me ask the question - "Have you done both?"
I'd venture to guess I could run twice (maybe three times if there are a lot of obstacles) as much copper in a day than I could black iron. Iron pipe requires proper threading and cleaning, supports for much heavier pipe, allowances for turning and tightening fittings, toting two pipe wrenches up and down ladders (if working overhead), the number of unions are higher. It's hard to find good quality fittings without paying a fortune for them, you will need to go to a plumbing supply house to get good ones. God forbid if you have leak after you finish the installation, it's damn near impossible to just tighten one fitting in a assembled black pipe system. In general black pipe is just a pain in the *** to install. It's going to last forever and it's going to rust inside whenever condensation occurs.
I'd venture to guess I could run twice (maybe three times if there are a lot of obstacles) as much copper in a day than I could black iron. Iron pipe requires proper threading and cleaning, supports for much heavier pipe, allowances for turning and tightening fittings, toting two pipe wrenches up and down ladders (if working overhead), the number of unions are higher. It's hard to find good quality fittings without paying a fortune for them, you will need to go to a plumbing supply house to get good ones. God forbid if you have leak after you finish the installation, it's damn near impossible to just tighten one fitting in a assembled black pipe system. In general black pipe is just a pain in the *** to install. It's going to last forever and it's going to rust inside whenever condensation occurs.
I was wrong in my earlier post when I stated the copper sewer pipe in my house is 4". It's actually 3". The smaller piping is 1 1/2".
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[/url][/IMG]
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Everything in the pictures was done with a hand held propane torch and there is far more copper plumbing than pictured. As you see, the bigger pipe can be done, so you can easily do the size pipe you need. The top picture is sideways.
Looks like the pipe you measured has yellow letters on it,if that's the case it would be type DWV copper,which has the thinnest wall,even less than type M,and the DWV fittings used with it are thin wall too,none of it is rated for pressure.Takes less heat to do DWV and it might even be 50/50 solder used on it depending on how old it is.
The OP isn't going to be running 2" pipe for air lines and he will be OK with a cheap propane torch.You worry about the heat with propane,I have tips for a propane Turbo Torch that will melt 1/2" and 3/4" copper if you want to,and I've done 6" type L with the same torch set up.
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
This post seems to be crossing logic between the suitability of materials regrading potable water, boiler systems and compressed air systems - three different animals. The OP's question was specific to compressed air in his shop, it's not helpful to mix commentary on other systems.
A buffer tank with a drain does very little to help remove moisture in a compressed air system. It does even less to "help particles fall out". Moisture traps and filters accompanied by radiators or coolers are far more effective.
Apologies, but it seems like some serious copy and paste from the internet netherworld for your post.
Last edited:
sberry
Banned
I agree, first thing should have been to determine what size he needs before wondering how big can be soldered, backasswards. Then we got to type before we determined demand and proper size, on page 2 and still havnt got to it yet?
bob15
Well-known member
sberry
Banned
You don't need to thread every piece. Pipe now comes 10 ft and the store has an excellent selection of *******, make it simple and likely most of it can be done with stock fittings. Did a job a while back where they thought to start making fittings first thing and I stopped it and said, we really need to use as much as we can from this pile first, out of 100 joints made 1 or 2.
Old post, same subject, same issues.
Old post, same subject, same issues.
I was not crossing logic, just clearing up the questions on the thickness. M is fine for his air. Galvanized in an airs system is a terrible idea because of the zinc flakes that will come off.
He didn't specify what he would be using it for, tools or painting so I figured tools with maybe a small paint job, the buffer tank would help with condensation the same way the main air tank builds water that must be drained. And large particles would also fall out you just make sure your tap is from the top of the tank and your inlet like middleway. The tank will have thermal mass to cool air just like a radiator. Obviously if you are painting and want it nice you need condensers and proper filters. I am not a painter, op might not be either.
To me threading a 2"+ pipe is easier to do consistently than soldering and wouldn't require someone else to hold the torch if he can't get help. Threading oil is easier to clean off than flux residue. Personally, I would do a 2" black iron main with fostapex taps in 3/4". But I also have access to a threader and pex tools.
2Big2Ride
Well-known member
When I went to install a replacement water heater this past summer it became obviously I didn't have enough propane on hand (or time) to make all the new connection I went and grabbed my oxy/acc welder with the smallest tip. If the oxy/acc rig is available I doubt I will try and use propane again. Plus it was easier to manipulate the welding tip into some of the areas to heat the pipe & joint then the bottle with tip.
ard
Well-known member
This post started 33 months ago. I would hope the airline have been finished by now.
LOL
When has that ever slowed anyone down???
Merry to All!
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
This post started 33 months ago. I would hope the airline have been finished by now.
Unless the OP used black iron, he might still be working on it
sberry
Banned
He has been saving up and waiting for the price of 2 inch to drop.