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Leaf blower ordinances and Gas-Powered Leaf Blowers Bans

kctyphoon

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We do NOT need a taxpayer funded gov subsidy for leaf blowers and lawn mowers. And rising sea levels is not.something "impossible" to deal with. Just ask the places who are/have. And if the "WORST CASE SCENRIO" is people migrate to a slightly higher altitude - that is not the end of life as we know it. People have been migrating since man first walked upright due to many different reason. would it be a problem? Yes. Will the earth become unlivable - NO.

Are our people being displaced at the rate people are trying to immigrate INTO this country? No. There might be challanges ahead - but life goes on.
 
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mcspeed

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I own both gas and electric blowers. The gas one out performs the electric but I use the electric most of the time because it is easier.

Like many rules or laws, they come about due to the behavior of a few. The climate change is one excuse but blowers causing this? If I pee in the ocean will it turn yellow?

Anyway I can see why some cities wish to ban them. Dust is a valid reason. But gas blowers create more dust? I believe the real problem is noise. Like any piece of equipment they require maintenance. There is a lawn crew I see ( hear) that has a blower so noisy it hurts my ears. It sounds like the muffler is completely gone. The poor operator will be deaf in no time. It is people like this who push cities to enact new laws. This crew disturbs every person within 100 yards. Simple maintenance would prevent the noise. New laws are created to “ fix” other problems and they don’t work very well.

There will be unintended consequences. For example leaves will pile up if blowers are banned. Leaves will clog storm drains. Flooding, erosion etc may occur because of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

2ndGearRubber

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I cannot tell you with 100% certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow. But I can tell you that based on thousands of years of daily observations, it is very probable that the sun will indeed rise tomorrow.

Weather is unpredictable - climate can be modeled based 100+ years of direct quantifiable observations, and thousands of years of indirect observations.

Do you really, truly think that scientists are so naive, that they don't consider that in their publications? The Earth was also a very different place during those periods, with terrain, animals and plants completely unrecognizable to what we have today. It would not be an environment that could sustain humans.

Hey, my neighbor beats his wife, I guess I should too? The U.S. still represents 16% of Global CO2 emissions - a huge amount.

Science has predicted the existence of exoplanets for hundreds of years, with the first possible observations of them occurring in 1917. We know how many planets are in our Solar System, the only thing that has changed is the definition of what defines a planet.


Scientists cannot predict with more certainty than a coin flip, whether or not it will rain at Pittsburgh international airport 1 month from now. But trust me bro, if we don't change CO2 outputs, these cities will be under water by these amounts in this many years. Seems arrogant, does it not?

The US is the world reserve currency, world police, lead innovator, and has huge swaths of land which its population commutes over. Little Euro countries the size of PA can invest in public transit and similar solutions. Not surprising 16% of carbon output is from the US. FWIW if we removed catalytic converters we could drop CO2 emissions, as H2O, CO2 and N2 are the primary outputs of that reaction.


I fully support limiting pollution in all its forms. The issue I take with the carbon-concerned community is primarily:


A complete and utter lack of actual "fixes" for the problem. Overpopulation and inefficient use of resources are the actual issues, carbon is a symptom. For instance, I have yet to hear anyone suggest investing in internet infrastructure. Imagine no office workers commuting; they don't actually need to in most cases currently. Improves quality of life, limits consumption, win-win. Easy button level. No options are given outside of taxation and outlawing products. This does not fix the inherent issues.
 

Nineeightyone

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393
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Pennsylvania
I fully support limiting pollution in all its forms. The issue I take with the carbon-concerned community is primarily:


A complete and utter lack of actual "fixes" for the problem. Overpopulation and inefficient use of resources are the actual issues, carbon is a symptom. For instance, I have yet to hear anyone suggest investing in internet infrastructure. Imagine no office workers commuting; they don't actually need to in most cases currently. Improves quality of life, limits consumption, win-win. Easy button level. No options are given outside of taxation and outlawing products. This does not fix the inherent issues.

If we consider for a moment that (at least to my knowledge) none of us are experts, and all of us are here purely as a hobby (unless someone's being paid by GJ?), I feel like we're retreading the same ground that leads to these to begin with.

I feel like we're running into an issue where a fair number of folks feel that since we don't have a "perfect" solution, we shouldn't make any efforts at all. We're letting perfection stand in the way of better, as it were. It doesn't need to be a 100% renewable energy solution immediately, but gradual changes towards renewable energy is a plus for sure.

Encouraging the development of alternatives to fossil fuel powered equipment doesn't seem like a bad thing, and I think maybe that was the intent of an ordinance of this nature. It may still create pollution to produce battery tools, but how much pollution is created by that versus how much is created by the production of their gas-powered comparisons, and the processing and refinement of the fuel required?
 

M6erfan

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What gets me about the whole climate debate is the hypocrisy. The "intelligencia" that comes up with the 100 Trillion $ 'fixes', fly to the latest Climate Summit in their private jets, then take a SUV limo to the event. All while checking in (via SmartHome internet) on their second and 3rd homes.

They can tell us what to do when they are draped in vegan loincloths and living in a communal yurt.
 

2ndGearRubber

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If we consider for a moment that (at least to my knowledge) none of us are experts, and all of us are here purely as a hobby (unless someone's being paid by GJ?), I feel like we're retreading the same ground that leads to these to begin with.

I feel like we're running into an issue where a fair number of folks feel that since we don't have a "perfect" solution, we shouldn't make any efforts at all. We're letting perfection stand in the way of better, as it were. It doesn't need to be a 100% renewable energy solution immediately, but gradual changes towards renewable energy is a plus for sure.

Encouraging the development of alternatives to fossil fuel powered equipment doesn't seem like a bad thing, and I think maybe that was the intent of an ordinance of this nature. It may still create pollution to produce battery tools, but how much pollution is created by that versus how much is created by the production of their gas-powered comparisons, and the processing and refinement of the fuel required?


Totally fine with moving towards phasing out fossil fuels. Let's do something beside talk about co2 and flying around the world in private jets to do so.

Actual solutions. Not taxes. Not bans. Not consumer level enforcement. Let's do some R&D and start finding solutions. Step one is investing in the only remotely feasible alternative we have. Which is nuclear. We have a limited amount of time to find a solution to bypass fossil fuels with real solutions. When the last of the coal, natural gas, and oil are gone, it's too late. We won't have the resources to manitian society, let alone develop replacements.


Co2 is a symptom, not the issue. The real effects 1000 years from now are unknowable.
 

2ndGearRubber

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What gets me about the whole climate debate is the hypocrisy. The "intelligencia" that comes up with the 100 Trillion $ 'fixes', fly to the latest Climate Summit in their private jets, then take a SUV limo to the event. All while checking in (via SmartHome internet) on their second and 3rd homes.

They can tell us what to do when they are draped in vegan loincloths and living in a communal yurt.

Yep, that certainly hurts the argument. If they actually cared about consumption and co2 they would livestream the meetings in their offices, and fax documents to be signed.


Fixing the climate is always someone else's problem. No different than the people with environmental bumper stickers all over their car crying about how emissions tests aren't fair. Everybody loves the planet, until they need to swear off fossil fuels. Same as everyone wants living wages for employees, but cry when prices rise as a result, or hours are cut.

Cant have your cake and eat it too. Sacrifice of stfu.
 

M6erfan

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Hypocrisy. I'm reminded of Ricky Gervaise's opening monologue at this years Golden Globes. Spot on.
 
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Parrothead

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I was specifically referencing backpack leaf blowers (battery powered) as was the post I quoted. Dragging a cord is not something I, nor many others, is gonna do. And by keep up, I would mean perform equally as well.

I get what you’re saying, and I’m not suggesting anyone use a corded blower. I own one and I’m upgrading to the EGO 56v because it’s better and it’s easier. My point was it works

That’s said apples to apples equal gas vs battery? Not quite there...yet. But it’s closer than you’d care to believe. I’d say a Corolla isn’t quite as good as a Camry but both do the job reliably and efficiently, the Camry just does it a little better. You can do the job professionally with battery powered tools.

“Working with battery-driven outdoor products does not mean you’ll have to compromise on runtime. A single charge of the powerful 36V Li-ion battery allows you to work approximately as long as you would on one tank of gas” - Husqvarna
 

M635_Guy

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We do NOT need a taxpayer funded gov subsidy for leaf blowers and lawn mowers. And rising sea levels is not.something "impossible" to deal with. Just ask the places who are/have. And if the "WORST CASE SCENRIO" is people migrate to a slightly higher altitude - that is not the end of life as we know it. People have been migrating since man first walked upright due to many different reason. would it be a problem? Yes. Will the earth become unlivable - NO.

Are our people being displaced at the rate people are trying to immigrate INTO this country? No. There might be challanges ahead - but life goes on.

Brother, there's no precedent in human history for the kinds and scope of the challenges rising oceans will pose. The places who are/have are are struggling mightily and they haven't really faced the full challenge yet. The economic impact will be massive. I guess the good news is it will be fairly equal as it's been a human tendency to build close to coastlines. It's not just moving to higher ground - how do you do that for New York City???

Will it end human life? Of course not.

It's likely we'll all be dead before this problem gets really serious, which is part of the problem. Remember all those things you did as a kid that you're paying for now? (for me, it's all the old basketball injuries that remind me...). We're doing that across generations.
 

kctyphoon

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Brother, there's no precedent in human history for the kinds and scope of the challenges rising oceans will pose. The places who are/have are are struggling mightily and they haven't really faced the full challenge yet. The economic impact will be massive. I guess the good news is it will be fairly equal as it's been a human tendency to build close to coastlines. It's not just moving to higher ground - how do you do that for New York City???

Will it end human life? Of course not.

It's likely we'll all be dead before this problem gets really serious, which is part of the problem. Remember all those things you did as a kid that you're paying for now? (for me, it's all the old basketball injuries that remind me...). We're doing that across generations.

If NYC has to, it will simply make changes to deal with it. We dropped atomic bombs on Japan, completely decimated cities in Europe. Life went on. These people make it sound like on Sunday all was well, but Monday came and NYC found itself under 20 feet of water. I mean, lets be serious here - Dubai BUILT its own islands. Part OF Manhattan is man made. Challenges present opportunity. Its how you respond to those opportunities that matter. What’s the worse case scenerio? Manhattan is lost over the next 300 years? Ok - i guess they wont have to fix the potholes, they’ll be thankful we already raised all the low bridges, and New Jersey will see development on a scale its never seen before.. this idea that kids are being told they will have to struggle to survive like 10 yrs from now, that life as they know it will become some sci fi movie - cause the water level rose 20 - 30 millimeters in a decade (about an inch) - is ****** ludicrous.

I imagine how many kids are being taught the movie “water world” is a future documentary.
The Netherlands have been dealing with floods and rising water for hundreds, if not thousands of years.
https://www.pbs.org/wnet/peril-and-promise/2019/07/dutch-barricade-against-climate-change/

With the way technology advances - 100 years from now every car might be power by saltwater, and the new crisis will be “oceans are receding”
 
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American Locomotive

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We do NOT need a taxpayer funded gov subsidy for leaf blowers and lawn mowers. And rising sea levels is not.something "impossible" to deal with. Just ask the places who are/have.
The rate of seal level rise is increasing. If unchecked, it will start rising faster than we can effectively deal with. Many, many coastal cities will have permanently flooded by 2050, and will more or less get destroyed during bad storms or hurricanes.

The cost to rebuild a city like NYC inland would be astronomical. It'd literally cost double the entire US yearly budget to rebuild the entirety of NYC somewhere else. That's just one city. 14 out of the 17 largest cities in the world are on the coast, and there are hundreds of other coastal cities. The amount of money and effort required to move all of those cities, all of those people, rebuild all of that infrastructure would be unfathomable.

So somehow to you, it's completely reasonable to literally relocate 1 billion people, rebuild entire cities and infrastructure, but completely out of line to ask people to use less polluting yard equipment?
Yes. Will the earth become unlivable - NO.
Actually, it will. It's not just rising sea level. It's climate. As we get warmer, weather will become more unpredictable and more intense. Constant hurricanes, tornadoes - even monstrous winter storms. It will become harder to farm, harder to heat and cool our homes ,and harder to live.
Scientists cannot predict with more certainty than a coin flip, whether or not it will rain at Pittsburgh international airport 1 month from now. But trust me bro, if we don't change CO2 outputs, these cities will be under water by these amounts in this many years. Seems arrogant, does it not?
No, it's not arrogant at all if you actually spend the effort to read the literature, instead of what pundits on Fox news say. Once again, weather is short term and unpredictable. Climate is long term, and is predictable. There is a ton of day-to-day and year-to-year variation, but by looking at long-term trends, we can see patterns and make very accurate predictions.
FWIW if we removed catalytic converters we could drop CO2 emissions, as H2O, CO2 and N2 are the primary outputs of that reaction.
Nice try, 'cept the NOx, HC and CO emitted by engines have higher GWP than CO2.
inefficient use of resources are the actual issues, carbon is a symptom.
...hence the banning of small, inefficient and highly polluting engines. You go on and on about how no one develops solutions - but there are tons of solutions all developed, ready to go. Tons and tons of people are pushing for more teleworking, reduced work-weeks, solar, wind, grid-storage, electric yard equipment and so much more.

But there is a tremendous push back from climate change deniers and old-school traditionalists.
Totally fine with moving towards phasing out fossil fuels. Let's do something beside talk about co2 and flying around the world in private jets to do so.
Scientists don't fly around in private jets. They do actual research.
Actual solutions. Not taxes. Not bans. Not consumer level enforcement. Let's do some R&D and start finding solutions. Step one is investing in the only remotely feasible alternative we have. Which is nuclear. We have a limited amount of time to find a solution to bypass fossil fuels with real solutions. When the last of the coal, natural gas, and oil are gone, it's too late. We won't have the resources to manitian society, let alone develop replacements.
The R&D is done, the solutions are here now and ready.
If NYC has to, it will simply make changes to deal with it. We dropped atomic bombs on Japan, completely decimated cities in Europe. Life went on. These people make it sound like on Sunday all was well, but Monday came and NYC found itself under 20 feet of water. I mean, lets be serious here - Dubai BUILT its own islands. Part OF Manhattan is man made. Challenges present opportunity. Its how you respond to those opportunities that matter. What’s the worse case scenerio? Manhattan is lost over the next 300 years? Ok - i guess they wont have to fix the potholes, they’ll be thankful we already raised all the low bridges, and New Jersey will see development on a scale its never seen before.. this idea that kids are being told they will have to struggle to survive like 10 yrs from now, that life as they know it will become some sci fi movie - cause the water level rose 20 - 30 millimeters in a decade (about an inch) - is ****** ludicrous.
It's only "ludicrous" because you don't understand it, and refuse to understand it. The sea level is rising, and the rate at which its rising is increasing. In 100 years, it will be 4 FEET higher than it is now. In just 50 years, it will be about 1.5 feet higher, which has HUGE implications on coastal cities - especially during storms.

Building a small island with pumped in dirt for a few homes is not the same thing as building a major city. Those islands require constant maintenance, and will be destroyed by sea level rise. They are not sustainable.

The implications of sea level rise aren't just the flooding of cities either. As glaciers melt, they will be pumping tons of fresh water into the ocean. The salinity of the ocean will change - which impacts deep ocean currents and marine life. The currents in the ocean drive our climate and the health of the ocean. Expect massive marine life die-offs, and radical changes in climate that could make once mild and temperate places completely inhospitable.

Seriously. Open a book. Stop listening to pundits on Fox News, CNN and NBC. Go to your local library, log onto Ebsco Host for free and start READING THE LITERATURE - like I have. Every single point and question you, and 2ndGearRubber have made have been completely answered, debunked and refuted by scientists for decades.
 
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M635_Guy

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If NYC has to, it will simply make changes to deal with it. We dropped atomic bombs on Japan, completely decimated cities in Europe. Life went on. These people make it sound like on Sunday all was well, but Monday came and NYC found itself under 20 feet of water. I mean, lets be serious here - Dubai BUILT its own islands. Part OF Manhattan is man made. Challenges present opportunity. Its how you respond to those opportunities that matter. What’s the worse case scenerio? Manhattan is lost over the next 300 years? Ok - i guess they wont have to fix the potholes, they’ll be thankful we already raised all the low bridges, and New Jersey will see development on a scale its never seen before.. this idea that kids are being told they will have to struggle to survive like 10 yrs from now, that life as they know it will become some sci fi movie - cause the water level rose 20 - 30 millimeters in a decade (about an inch) - is ****** ludicrous.

I imagine how many kids are being taught the movie “water world” is a future documentary.
The Netherlands have been dealing with floods and rising water for hundreds, if not thousands of years.
https://www.pbs.org/wnet/peril-and-promise/2019/07/dutch-barricade-against-climate-change/

With the way technology advances - 100 years from now every car might be power by saltwater, and the new crisis will be “oceans are receding”

Perfect - guess you're cool with living in a house with asbestos and keeping the skeeters away with DDT. Enjoy...
 

M6erfan

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The solutions are here and now, ready to go...

Really? Where?

We would basically need to upend the global economy as we know it. What will run the farm equipment that allows us to produce food? How will we travel from U.S. to Europe, or Asia, in hours, for efficient commerce? How will we move millions of tons of goods across the oceans for trade and food (let alone energy)? Not to mention moving goods more locally (trucking).

These are just some obstacles, there are countless others. If there are solutions ready to go, they're being kept a secret, globally.
 

laser3kw

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I imagine how many kids are being taught the movie “water world” is a future documentary.
When in reality, Idiocracy is a documentary of the future - and the future is upon us
 

M635_Guy

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The solutions are here and now, ready to go...

Really? Where?

We would basically need to upend the global economy as we know it. What will run the farm equipment that allows us to produce food? How will we travel from U.S. to Europe, or Asia, in hours, for efficient commerce? How will we move millions of tons of goods across the oceans for trade and food (let alone energy)? Not to mention moving goods more locally (trucking).

These are just some obstacles, there are countless others. If there are solutions ready to go, they're being kept a secret, globally.

That not really true, and for what it's worth I'd guess one of the last places you'd see conversion is the fairly-efficient or highly leveraged infrastructure (trucking, farm equipement, etc.).

I go to Beijing fairly regularly, and it's crazy how bad the air is...

...until something is going on and they drastically limit cars, factory smoke etc. And it's beautiful. It takes a day or so after to come back and the world tastes like a nickel again.

There are tons of things we can do in the short term if there are incentives or requirements to do them. Same for research and development for broader and more impactful stuff. It's not a switch you flip, but a decision has to be made to move in a direction. Right now we're still arguing if there's a problem.

Folks worried about economic impact are burying their heads in the sand with the already-increasing impact of not doing anything.

The people flying in the private jets are the politicians and the talking heads, not the scientists. (it's like that guy who wanders into a shop and tries to tell the wrench what's wrong...)
 
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joe_pinehill1

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I would like to see a study on how much of the total global pollution that small engines are actually responsible for. I would bet it's about as close to non-existent as you can get.

You maybe right. There was a story on Market Place that by the end of this decade, the internet may be contributing as much as 10% of all carbon emissions. All those servers take an incredible amount of power.

Leaf Blowers today, the Garage Journal tomorrow...
 

M635_Guy

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I would like to see a study on how much of the total global pollution that small engines are actually responsible for. I would bet it's about as close to non-existent as you can get.

I'd like to see something broader and more definitive than this, but this article says small engines were on track to contribute more emissions that cars by this year.

People routinely ignore much more vetted information than that though...
 

four.cycle

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I'd submit that the hot air generated in this thread is responsible for far more global warming than all the gas-powered lawnmowers and weed-whackers and blowers on the planet.
 

M6erfan

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That not really true, and for what it's worth I'd guess one of the last places you'd see conversion is the fairly-efficient or highly leveraged infrastructure (trucking, farm equipement, etc.).

I go to Beijing fairly regularly, and it's crazy how bad the air is...

...until something is going on and they drastically limit cars, factory smoke etc. And it's beautiful. It takes a day or so after to come back and the world tastes like a nickel again.

There are tons of things we can do in the short term if there are incentives or requirements to do them. Same for research and development for broader and more impactful stuff. It's not a switch you flip, but a decision has to be made to move in a direction. Right now we're still arguing if there's a problem.

Folks worried about economic impact are burying their heads in the sand with the already-increasing impact of not doing anything.

The people flying in the private jets are the politicians and the talking heads, not the scientists. (it's like that guy who wanders into a shop and tries to tell the wrench what's wrong...)

Unfortunately the scientists do not set policy, the politicians do.

I doubt I have my head in the sand. I travel globally (yes, including China) and work in factory automation. However, my belief still stands, the global economy as we know it would cease to exist. It would require a vast scale of infrastructure change.

I'm still waiting to learn of these ready to go solutions that anyone, anywhere has yet to implement.
 

M635_Guy

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You chose really bad examples that only show a lack of depth of knowledge. Yes, I’d be cool with both.

You're comfortable with a substance that's been banned since 2001 for it's danger to wildlife and people??

You must be full of knowledge.

And I'm aware that asbestos in stasis is considered non-threatening. But it's amazing how incredibly tightly controlled and managed it is today, though. Must be safe.
 

kctyphoon

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The rate of seal level rise is increasing. If unchecked, it will start rising faster than we can effectively deal with. Many, many coastal cities will have permanently flooded by 2050, and will more or less get destroyed during bad storms or hurricanes.

The cost to rebuild a city like NYC inland would be astronomical. It'd literally cost double the entire US yearly budget to rebuild the entirety of NYC somewhere else. That's just one city. 14 out of the 17 largest cities in the world are on the coast, and there are hundreds of other coastal cities. The amount of money and effort required to move all of those cities, all of those people, rebuild all of that infrastructure would be unfathomable.

So somehow to you, it's completely reasonable to literally relocate 1 billion people, rebuild entire cities and infrastructure, but completely out of line to ask people to use less polluting yard equipment?

Actually, it will. It's not just rising sea level. It's climate. As we get warmer, weather will become more unpredictable and more intense. Constant hurricanes, tornadoes - even monstrous winter storms. It will become harder to farm, harder to heat and cool our homes ,and harder to live.

No, it's not arrogant at all if you actually spend the effort to read the literature, instead of what pundits on Fox news say. Once again, weather is short term and unpredictable. Climate is long term, and is predictable. There is a ton of day-to-day and year-to-year variation, but by looking at long-term trends, we can see patterns and make very accurate predictions.

Nice try, 'cept the NOx, HC and CO emitted by engines have higher GWP than CO2.

...hence the banning of small, inefficient and highly polluting engines. You go on and on about how no one develops solutions - but there are tons of solutions all developed, ready to go. Tons and tons of people are pushing for more teleworking, reduced work-weeks, solar, wind, grid-storage, electric yard equipment and so much more.

But there is a tremendous push back from climate change deniers and old-school traditionalists.

Scientists don't fly around in private jets. They do actual research.

The R&D is done, the solutions are here now and ready.

It's only "ludicrous" because you don't understand it, and refuse to understand it. The sea level is rising, and the rate at which its rising is increasing. In 100 years, it will be 4 FEET higher than it is now. In just 50 years, it will be about 1.5 feet higher, which has HUGE implications on coastal cities - especially during storms.

Building a small island with pumped in dirt for a few homes is not the same thing as building a major city. Those islands require constant maintenance, and will be destroyed by sea level rise. They are not sustainable.

The implications of sea level rise aren't just the flooding of cities either. As glaciers melt, they will be pumping tons of fresh water into the ocean. The salinity of the ocean will change - which impacts deep ocean currents and marine life. The currents in the ocean drive our climate and the health of the ocean. Expect massive marine life die-offs, and radical changes in climate that could make once mild and temperate places completely inhospitable.

Seriously. Open a book. Stop listening to pundits on Fox News, CNN and NBC. Go to your local library, log onto Ebsco Host for free and start READING THE LITERATURE - like I have. Every single point and question you, and 2ndGearRubber have made have been completely answered, debunked and refuted by scientists for decades.

The idea of having to “rebuild” NYC if it was lost to a flood is comical. The idea something like that would happen “in a couple years” is even funnier. There is an entire country BESIDES a few tiny islands.

Your equivalencies of yard equipment = 1 billion people having to relocate is a joke. Just stop.
I suggest you start giving a hard look into the “other side” of your argument - instead of just believing what is systematically fed to you. Try to stop finding the answers you WANT to find, just because you’ve decided “those are the right ones”

Al Gores’s predictions from 10 years ago claimed that some models showed a 75% chance of polar icecaps being completely gone in summer months within 5-7 years.. Riddle me this - if these “experts” always KNOW whats going to happen, why have then been so wrong, by so much, ALWAYS?..

People can rattle off whatever they want that some other people wrote, that were published by some “reliable news sources” - to TELL you what your opinion SHOULD be. Yet time after time, they are wrong, and EVERYONE in that circle just seems to ignore that and latch on the the next sales pitch - never once stopping to think to themselves, “all these experts dont seem to have a real good track record at predicting impending doom”..

I dunno about you, but I’m still waiting for the great economy crash of 2017 that “experts” were sure of.. i guess some circles will ignore that too..

“We are 10 years away from the tipping point”. - ok - they KNOW this. “NOW” - they “KNOW” this.... exactly 2 years into a 4yr term they DONT control, BUT- if you elect them 2 yrs from now, they would have exactly TWO 4 yr terms to “save us all”.. how convenient, that one POLITICAL party figured this out, while trying everything possible to remove the opposing side from power.. wow.. thank god they figured this out NOW.. I’m sure one has nothing to do with the other.. just a happy coincidence... lol

“If we dont get voted in” humanity will all suffer - but hey - dont look over there, at all those other countries that we AGREED to allow them to expand their WORST polluting power plants - for the next 100 years.. “look here, not here”... but Cali is like - hey you!- gimme that damn leaf blower!!!!
 
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sweetk30

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
2,306
Location
finger lakes area upstate ,ny
skipping to the end here .....

we use to have a kid next door to my old house that 1 year they got a gas powered leaf blower . he played with it all summer every day . .. . now i cant stand them GOD DAM things for 1 sec of run time.

yes they have there point of use but lots of time just get the rake out and do some dam work .
 

American Locomotive

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Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
11,016
Location
Rhode Island
The idea of having to “rebuild” NYC if it was lost to a flood is comical. The idea something like that would happen “in a couple years” is even funnier. There is an entire country BESIDES a few tiny islands.
I never said a single flood would make NYC go away. I never said it would happen in a couple of years either, so I'm really not sure what you are quoting. Once again, you are refusing to actually read or understand anything I said, nor do any research.

In ~30-40 years, NYC will start regularly flooding. What used to be a 100 year flood, will now be a 4 month flood. In 50 years, parts of NYC (and hundreds of cities globally) will be permanently flooded by ocean water. In 100 years, many of those cities will be entirely inundated in many feet of ocean water. At that point, all of the Subways, all of the sub-subterranean infrastructure is gone. The city would not be able to function. You'd literally have to rebuild the city on stilts, or abandon it and move upland.

Yes we have an entire country, but 50% of the population lives within 50 miles of the ocean, and 40% live in cities directly adjacent to the ocean. The cost to relocate, rebuild and move those hundreds of millions of people, tens of thousands of businesses and all the associated infrastructure is monumental.
Your equivalencies of yard equipment = 1 billion people having to relocate is a joke. Just stop.
I have never, ever made that equivalency. You are "arguing the strawman". You are making things up, and arguing against things I never said.
I suggest you start giving a hard look into the “other side” of your argument - instead of just believing what is systematically fed to you. Try to stop finding the answers you WANT to find, just because you’ve decided “those are the right ones”'
Things I've done:
1) Gone to school for 6 years for a degree in an environmental science
2) Been to countless seminars and presentations from the world's top researchers and scientists
3) Have looked at the raw data going back over 100 years, collected by unbiased third parties
4) Performed my own independent analysis on that data using tools freely available to just about anyone
5) Created my own conclusions based the results from that data analysis.

Things you have done:
Have read things from pundits on TV and the internet that have no background what so ever in any kind of science, nor have done any independent research.
How did Al Gores’s predictions from 10 years ago claimed that some models showed a 75% chance of polar icecaps being completely gone in summer in summer months within 5-7 years..
Who gives a **** what Al Gore says? He is NOT a scientist. I can tell you right now he was not mentioned a SINGLE time in the 6 years I was in school. He's a public clown.

Scientists and climate researchers create all kinds of models, with all kinds of inputs to look at as many possible scenarios as possible. One aggressive model (assuming worst possible pollution, positive feedback loops, etc...) indicated that during SOME summer months, arctic sea ice in the north pole could possible completely disappear.
Riddle me this - if these “experts” always KNOW whats going to happen, why have then been so wrong, by so much, ALWAYS?..

People can rattle off whatever they want that some other people wrote, that were published by some “reliable news sources” - to TELL you what your opinion SHOULD be. Yet time after time, they are wrong, and EVERYONE in that circle just seems to ignore that and latch on the the next sales pitch - never once stopping to thin to themselves, “all these experts dont seem to have a real good track record at predicting impending doom”..

I dunno about you, but I’m still waiting for the great economy crash of 2017 that “experts” were sure of.. i guess the same circles will ignore that too..
You are just digging yourself a bigger and bigger hole. Every single post you make proves more and more proving that your only source of information regarding climate change comes from mainstream media and wannabe bloggers.

Not one single SCIENTIST has ever claimed ANYTHING you have said. Not a single one. Ever. No climate scientist ever uses phrases like "tipping point" or makes claims they know exactly what is going to happen in 10 years. Those are perversions and fabrications by mainstream media.

Seriously. Go to your library, log onto EBSCO host and read the top climate papers. Go to actual climate policy/change seminar or conference. You don't need any special credentials to go to one. You will read, hear and see FACTS. Not exaggerated scaremongering garbage you see on the news.

Until you do the above, you have absolutely no legs to stand on. You have scientific background, no actual factual knowledge. You have nothing except garbage regurgitated by media pundits that don't know anything.
 
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rlitman

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Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Messages
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Matt_Paul

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Jan 18, 2020
Messages
58
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Cleveland
All this talk is moot. Power equipment emmissions is not worth talking about when China has tons of coal burning plants and makes more emissions than Europe and the USA combined.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

kctyphoon

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
9,102
Location
Jersey/Staten Island
I never said a single flood would make NYC go away. I never said it would happen in a couple of years either, so I'm really not sure what you are quoting. Once again, you are refusing to actually read or understand anything I said, nor do any research.

In ~30-40 years, NYC will start regularly flooding. What used to be a 100 year flood, will now be a 4 month flood. In 50 years, parts of NYC (and hundreds of cities globally) will be permanently flooded by ocean water. In 100 years, many of those cities will be entirely inundated in many feet of ocean water. At that point, all of the Subways, all of the sub-subterranean infrastructure is gone. The city would not be able to function. You'd literally have to rebuild the city on stilts, or abandon it and move upland.

Yes we have an entire country, but 50% of the population lives within 50 miles of the ocean, and 40% live in cities directly adjacent to the ocean. The cost to relocate, rebuild and move those hundreds of millions of people, tens of thousands of businesses and all the associated infrastructure is monumental.

I have never, ever made that equivalency. You are "arguing the strawman". You are making things up, and arguing against things I never said.

Things I've done:
1) Gone to school for 6 years for a degree in an environmental science
2) Been to countless seminars and presentations from the world's top researchers and scientists
3) Have looked at the raw data going back over 100 years, collected by unbiased third parties
4) Performed my own independent analysis on that data using tools freely available to just about anyone
5) Created my own conclusions based the results from that data analysis.

Things you have done:
Have read things from pundits on TV and the internet that have no background what so ever in any kind of science, nor have done any independent research.

Who gives a **** what Al Gore says? He is NOT a scientist. I can tell you right now he was not mentioned a SINGLE time in the 6 years I was in school. He's a public clown.

Scientists and climate researchers create all kinds of models, with all kinds of inputs to look at as many possible scenarios as possible. One aggressive model (assuming worst possible pollution, positive feedback loops, etc...) indicated that during SOME summer months, arctic sea ice in the north pole could possible completely disappear.

You are just digging yourself a bigger and bigger hole. Every single post you make proves more and more proving that your only source of information regarding climate change comes from mainstream media and wannabe bloggers.

Not one single SCIENTIST has ever claimed ANYTHING you have said. Not a single one. Ever. No climate scientist ever uses phrases like "tipping point" or makes claims they know exactly what is going to happen in 10 years. Those are perversions and fabrications by mainstream media.

Seriously. Go to your library, log onto EBSCO host and read the top climate papers. Go to actual climate policy/change seminar or conference. You don't need any special credentials to go to one. You will read, hear and see FACTS. Not exaggerated scaremongering garbage you see on the news.

Until you do the above, you have absolutely no legs to stand on. You have scientific background, no actual factual knowledge. You have nothing except garbage regurgitated by media pundits that don't know anything.

I fail to see how the side who’s been making “expert” predictions on climate change and DOOM for the last 50 years - that keeps changing their claims and DOOM dates only when their last DOOM date came and went - ISNT the one digging themselves into a deeper hole..

When did always being wrong become a reliable source?

your post - “No climate scientist ever uses phrases like "tipping point" or makes claims they know exactly what is going to happen in 10 years.“

Didn’t you just rattle off what was GOING to happen in 50 years???? down to the “monthly floods”..
 
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American Locomotive

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
11,016
Location
Rhode Island
I fail to see how the side who’s been making “expert” predictions on climate change and DOOM for the last 50 years - that keeps changing their claims and DOOM dates only when their last DOOM date came and went - ISNT the one digging themselves into a deeper hole..
No scientist has ever set a "doom date". No "experts" make predictions like that. Scientists do their research, and people who know just enough to get themselves hurt write blog posts and sensationalist nightly news stories about it.

Seriously, almost every single time one of those articles comes out and someone actually interviews the scientists involved with the study, the scientists almost always pull the reporter/interviewer back to reality.
When did always being wrong become a reliable source?
They're not wrong, and haven't been wrong. Climatologists have a variety of models they use. Our current rates of sea level rise, temperature increases and CO2 increases are tracking the latest models fairly close. As they gather more data, their models become more and more accurate.
your post - “No climate scientist ever uses phrases like "tipping point" or makes claims they know exactly what is going to happen in 10 years.“

Didn’t you just rattle off what was GOING to happen in 50 years???? down to the “monthly floods”..
No actually, I did not say NYC would have monthly floods. That is your own perversion of what I said, because you refuse to fully read and understand my posts. I said what used to be a 100 year flood, would become a "4 month flood". That means a flood, that used to have a 1% chance of occurring during any given year, would be likely to occur multiple times per year, not that the city would have a flood every 4 months.

The current data says at the current rate of sea level rise, cities like NYC will have severe flooding issues within 50 years. Regardless of what is causing it, the sea level is rising. This is a fact. Period. It's measurable, and we've been measuring it for over 100 years.

Seriously. Stop getting your information from television and blog posts. Go. To. The. Library. Look up sea level rise on EBSCO host, look up what the term "100 year flood" means. Look at the raw, unbiased data collected by independent third parties. Fire up Excel and do your own data analysis. Almost all the relevant data is freely available from the USGS website.
 
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rlitman

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Messages
24,683
Location
Long Island
Getting way off track, but I read a study about the ban of DDT being responsible for millions of human deaths over a few decades. I can't cite it, this was maybe 10 years ago.


Probably. The statistic certainly doesn’t surprise me at all.

As for this thread, it’s been off the rails for some time now.
 

PugetDude

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
22,484
Location
Superstition Mountains, AZ
Climate has been changing for millions of years. It will continue to change for millions of years to come. In the meantime self-serving scientists and politicians will make millions studying, pontificating and predicting, with ZERO accountability for their actions.
Looking at the geologic record, it's ludicrous for anyone to believe that climate is or should be static. We can bankrupt the world economy trying to keep it from changing; yet one Mt Tambora or Hatepe VEI-7 class eruption or an asteroid strike makes our efforts a moot point, and there is not a damn thing we can do about either one.
Yeah, Loco, I went to college too; BS Environmental Geography with a Minor in Geology.
Sorry, but I don't need a handwringing lecture by you, Al Gore or a 17 year old Swedish kid telling me I suddenly need to quit running my leaf blower or pay a carbon tax in support of your self-proclaimed "settled science". And what really posses me off is the hypocrisy of the Hollywood and DC climate "experts" hopping off their private jets to tell me I need to ride the bus or the world will end in 7-10-15 years. News flash-it won't, and every missed bombastic prediction only serves to weaken your argument and estrange your audience.
 

2ndGearRubber

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
14,185
Location
Pittsburgh
Climate has been changing for millions of years. It will continue to change for millions of years to come. In the meantime self-serving scientists and politicians will make millions studying, pontificating and predicting, with ZERO accountability for their actions.
Looking at the geologic record, it's ludicrous for anyone to believe that climate is or should be static. We can bankrupt the world economy trying to keep it from changing; yet one Mt Tambora or Hatepe VEI-7 class eruption or an asteroid strike makes our efforts a moot point, and there is not a damn thing we can do about either one.
Yeah, Loco, I went to college too; BS Environmental Geography with a Minor in Geology.
Sorry, but I don't need a handwringing lecture by you, Al Gore or a 17 year old Swedish kid telling me I suddenly need to quit running my leaf blower or pay a carbon tax in support of your self-proclaimed "settled science". And what really posses me off is the hypocrisy of the Hollywood and DC climate "experts" hopping off their private jets to tell me I need to ride the bus or the world will end in 7-10-15 years. News flash-it won't, and every missed bombastic prediction only serves to weaken your argument and estrange your audience.



Can I get a "DING DING" ?


We can't predict next weeks weather with any certainty. But one of the most complex and interconnected phenomena man can comprehend? Obviously the science is settled! :spit:

I don't think anyone will deny that releasing huge amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere is likely to effect the planet. Claiming to be able to predict sea level rise, in feet, 100 years from now, is a pipe dream. These same scientists can't tell the folks at the weather channel which side of florida, FLORIDA, a hurricane will make landfall on. Of course, 100 years of data is lots to predict off of. The earth has only had liquid water for what, 3 billion years? The tectonic plates have been in this general location for the entirety of the rise of anatomically modern humans? But 100 years of data, obviously plenty to extrapolate out.



IMO if those concerned with CO2 would rally behind something that can fix the issue, they'd get more traction. The science is generally founded, increases in CO2 levels mean higher average temps. So lets find a way to replace fossil fuels! Promoting Tesla and wind-farms doesn't do anything. Bumper stickers and alarmist speeches from politicians do nothing. I've yet to meet a single person on the "concerned for CO2" camp who has any interest in changing their lives. I don't either frankly. So either go balls to the wall nuclear, or accept what comes.

Climate accords, fancy meetings, and specials on the Discovery channel have done little to slow CO2 production.


I haven't looked at this thread in a day and it looks like a ******* match has ensued.

Bets on total posts before it's shut down?


Oh come on, have some fun. :)
 
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