I'll second starting out with an O/A setup if you can find a class. There is no better way to learn puddle control. You'll build confidence quickly, once you get the hang of it. It's not as pretty as tig can be, but your first tig welds won't be pretty either. Learning the characteristics of a new machine is all about what it takes to have the same puddle control you had with the torches. Master puddle control and master your machine and you'll be happy with the results.
Learning to weld: TIG Questions...
- Thread starter BikerDad
- Start date
First welds I made on OA were not great, But I got a lot better and my welds looked exactly like a TIG weld after a while, I even welded Aluminum with OA... Use a BLUE goggle if you do that... Still have my OA setup for Heat and Beat... haven't used it to weld or cut in a LONG time...
Hey guys
If the tig torch has a gas valve on it does that mean you have to turn the knob on and off everytime before you weld? (Machine doesn't have a solenoid/ valve) when set up for TIG
I think it's a knob but I am not sure
That seems pretty annoying
If the tig torch has a gas valve on it does that mean you have to turn the knob on and off everytime before you weld? (Machine doesn't have a solenoid/ valve) when set up for TIG
I think it's a knob but I am not sure
That seems pretty annoying
I had a harbor freight one with a gas knob, and yes you needed to turn on and off the gas when welding. I think I used it a couple times then gave it to a buddy of mine. Now I have a Miller synchro wave and it's all I weld with any more. On a rear occasion I'll bust out my Miller 175 mig. But that's for welding upside down using a mirror while holding one part in one hand and the other in my teeth.
sailah
Well-known member
I taught myself TIG and am pretty comfortable welding almost anything. Done a ton of aluminum, carbon and stainless. even did some really heavy cast iron with bronze rod. I am far from an expert but my welds are good enough for what I do.
I started with a $300 chinese welder I bought off Pirate4x4. Welded a lot with that but was offered a Lincoln Precision TIG 185 and jumped on it. Sold the Chinese welder for what I paid for it. Don't just assume anything made in China is junk. Some of it is decent enough to learn on. Upgrade when you can afford to or you've outgrown the $300 welder. Sometimes I wonder if I ever did lol.
Invest in your eyes from the start. I ride motorcycles as well and I'm sure we probably know each other from ADV. A good helmet is like an Arai. I used a cheap one at first but wish I never had. I upgraded and it was the best improvement in welding I did. Buy the best helmet you can afford $200+ and scrimp on something else.
It's all practice. Watching videos is helpful but what you really need is hood time. Make mistakes and learn from it. Start off with heavier coupons, I used to teach TIG welding intros at Tech Shop and they would use sheet metal for coupons because it was cheap. But it wasn't forgiving so students would blow through it all the time. I ended up bring in my own scrap of 1/8" stuff for them to weld on and they all agreed it was easier to learn. Save the thin stuff for when you have good puddle and heat control.
Have a comfortable place to weld and rest arms, wrists etc. you can't learn standing up you need to be relaxed and focused on the puddle.
I started with a $300 chinese welder I bought off Pirate4x4. Welded a lot with that but was offered a Lincoln Precision TIG 185 and jumped on it. Sold the Chinese welder for what I paid for it. Don't just assume anything made in China is junk. Some of it is decent enough to learn on. Upgrade when you can afford to or you've outgrown the $300 welder. Sometimes I wonder if I ever did lol.
Invest in your eyes from the start. I ride motorcycles as well and I'm sure we probably know each other from ADV. A good helmet is like an Arai. I used a cheap one at first but wish I never had. I upgraded and it was the best improvement in welding I did. Buy the best helmet you can afford $200+ and scrimp on something else.
It's all practice. Watching videos is helpful but what you really need is hood time. Make mistakes and learn from it. Start off with heavier coupons, I used to teach TIG welding intros at Tech Shop and they would use sheet metal for coupons because it was cheap. But it wasn't forgiving so students would blow through it all the time. I ended up bring in my own scrap of 1/8" stuff for them to weld on and they all agreed it was easier to learn. Save the thin stuff for when you have good puddle and heat control.
Have a comfortable place to weld and rest arms, wrists etc. you can't learn standing up you need to be relaxed and focused on the puddle.
ewang
Well-known member
I bought an Everlast 160sth ($430) to learn on. Seems great so far! On my first welds I accidentally stuck the tungsten, but soon was able to create a nice cup on several scrap pieces. My last try, I successfully **** welded two pieces together and was unable to break or bend the weld at my vise with a sledge.
I recommend getting a cheap one to learn on, then upgrade once you feel comfortable.
I recommend getting a cheap one to learn on, then upgrade once you feel comfortable.
Cryptic1911
Well-known member
I'm still in the learning phase myself.. I ended up buying one of the Alphatig 200X (2016 model), and it's been a really really nice machine so far. I immediately put down much nicer beads than I had with the other machine that we borrowed (a beat up eastwood tig200). I'm still no pro by any means, but I think the alpha is the best machine you can get for reasonable money.
I've watched just about all of the weldintipsandtricks videos on youtube, and they are VERY helpful. I also bought a set of stubby gas lenses and a tig finger from him, both of which I like. The gas lens setup seems much better as far as gas coverage
Tungstens, I've tried the blue 2%, and the purple e3's, and I find that for me, the purples just work better. As for sharpening them, I was using a 2" belt sander, but remembered that we had a blade sharpener from HF (http://www.harborfreight.com/120-volt-circular-saw-blade-sharpener-96687.html) and since it had a diamond grinding disc on it, we just took the guards off, and use that to sharpen. That works WAAAY better than the belt sander or a regular grinding wheel. I can get needle sharp tungstens with that if I want.
One last thing, I found that when I was starting out, I was using too much torch angle, and I was too far away with the torch. Get comfortable and a good work height, and use something to rest your arm/hand on so that you can keep a consistent distance. It's much easier to learn what you're doing wrong when you can keep one of the variables consistent. I found that using the gas lens for better gas coverage, keeping the tungsten still fairly short, and keeping the torch angle straighter + a tight arc, that I get much much better results. I try to start with the general suggestion of 1 amp per thou, and go up or down from there depending on the situation. The amps was one thing that was hard in the beginning because I had too much torch angle, so the heat was all over the place
I've watched just about all of the weldintipsandtricks videos on youtube, and they are VERY helpful. I also bought a set of stubby gas lenses and a tig finger from him, both of which I like. The gas lens setup seems much better as far as gas coverage
Tungstens, I've tried the blue 2%, and the purple e3's, and I find that for me, the purples just work better. As for sharpening them, I was using a 2" belt sander, but remembered that we had a blade sharpener from HF (http://www.harborfreight.com/120-volt-circular-saw-blade-sharpener-96687.html) and since it had a diamond grinding disc on it, we just took the guards off, and use that to sharpen. That works WAAAY better than the belt sander or a regular grinding wheel. I can get needle sharp tungstens with that if I want.
One last thing, I found that when I was starting out, I was using too much torch angle, and I was too far away with the torch. Get comfortable and a good work height, and use something to rest your arm/hand on so that you can keep a consistent distance. It's much easier to learn what you're doing wrong when you can keep one of the variables consistent. I found that using the gas lens for better gas coverage, keeping the tungsten still fairly short, and keeping the torch angle straighter + a tight arc, that I get much much better results. I try to start with the general suggestion of 1 amp per thou, and go up or down from there depending on the situation. The amps was one thing that was hard in the beginning because I had too much torch angle, so the heat was all over the place
I have always been on Miller, have used most of the machines out there and the consistency with the Miller product and been very helpful.
I took class's in the 70's and much of the previous comments apply.
Comfort and vision is key to tig welding you have to watch the puddle.
One exercise is to build up a mound of alum try to get it skinny and high.
I have done much with fabrication work which is get clean and bevel and fit properly prior to welding.
More of what I have done is repair work, where you do not get a practice shot. Some times it is transmission casting or previously welded fabricated part that was broken in a crash. This often requires uncomfortable positions but never the less if you can not see it you can not weld it.
Heading up to Hull next week, going down to Situate to look at a welding job on a boat.
Out of position welding comes after you master in position welding... Welding a roll cage using a mirror, and doing everything BACKWARDS is not the way you want to LEARN!
Well, it may not be the way you want to learn, but after doing so, I suspect everything else comes easy. Kinda like learning to swim by falling into the middle of a swarm of sharks in the North Atlantic in January. If you survive, the local pool is a piece of cake.
R.Anderson
Well-known member
Possible your gas is contaminated but I would not give in yet on that being the problem. I find it rather irritating that people say its the aluminum being dirty and to clean it and the problems will go away, this is less likely the problem when someone is learning TIG on aluminum.
I would think a gas flow issue, too far out from the weld zone, or contaminated tungsten. Far as needing to lift start the arc you should not do this with Aluminum you contaminate the tungsten right off the bat, thus causing the black soot ****.
Like others have said start with laying beads. Get to welding clean beads without filler then move to adding filler then move to welding pieces together. When you get to adding filler you want a puddle to form first before adding any filler.
R.Anderson
Well-known member
Yuppers, it may seem annoying to you but there are applications that this is what you want. Such as welding pipe up on a ladder, that trigger switch gets annoying to use. You get use to it.
Thanks for your reply, I've been meaning to come back here and post another follow up. The problem I'm having where I describe the tungsten actually touching the material is because I can't get the arc started no matter the distance and occasionally it will touch, thus starting it. It will sometimes sputter and pop, similar to the OP's description. When an arc does get started it sputters and creates a black pitted mess without any chance of starting a bead before introducing filler. If I switch it to DC for steel I can very easily get an arc started and lay down decent enough beads with or without filler rod. I really want to get back out and manipulate the gas flow more and try but since I started posting I simply have not had the time.
For those that have a Diversion am I supposed to notice the high pitched buzzing? If so I don't really notice it when trying to start. I'll try my best to get out tomorrow evening and give it another go.
R.Anderson
Well-known member
I would say check your balance, if too far one way it will burn up your tungsten but I do not think you can adjust that on your machine.
Did you buy the unit new or used? maybe a issue with the machine.
I am not familiar with the Diversions but with HF start on all the machines I have used (Miller: Dialarc, Syncrowave, Dynasty 300dx, Lincoln, ESAB, and Everlast you hear a HF buzz in the machine.
I was stuck ARC welding in a steel box and the more I sweated the more the electricity flowed. Tig welding has never been that bad.
There is much than can be done with practice some times technology is the way to go.
Many of the chassis I work on have been gas welded in the UK and trying to fix them with tig welding gets messy. So I have gone the mig route with silicon bronze as the filler wire. Some of the repair weld requests you can not access it with a tig torch & filler wire and being able to see it.
Bill Anderson
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2011
- Messages
- 97
+1 Alpha Tig. Nice machine. Ton of features at a reasonable cost. AC/DC. I used their customer service, and they were top notch, took care of my issue immediately. I bought mine from Amazon. There is no way I would choose a diversion or hobart equivalent over this, they are 2-3x the cost and half the features.
He said before he has a Diversion from Miller, a 165... It is a VERY Simple machine, I'll ask are you using the finger control on the torch or is it a pedal model? if you don't have your work lead connected do you get the blue lightning? HF should light your arc either DC or AC but AC will be making noise... the Diversion is NOT lift start. what current are you actually using?
R.Anderson
Well-known member
He said before he has a Diversion from Miller, a 165... It is a VERY Simple machine, I'll ask are you using the finger control on the torch or is it a pedal model? if you don't have your work lead connected do you get the blue lightning? HF should light your arc either DC or AC but AC will be making noise... the Diversion is NOT lift start. what current are you actually using?
Thanks Capt. Obvious
"I would say check your balance, if too far one way it will burn up your tungsten but I do not think you can adjust that on your machine.
Did you buy the unit new or used? maybe a issue with the machine.
I am not familiar with the Diversions but with HF start on all the machines I have used (Miller: Dialarc, Syncrowave, Dynasty 300dx, Lincoln, ESAB, and Everlast you hear a HF buzz in the machine."
I'm using 3/16" billet aluminum and have adjusted amperage from about 100-160 trying to get a good arc started with minimal success. The machine has a pedal control and the thumb control but I have only tried the pedal. In DC the machine does well as I have welded mild and stainless with no drama.
I have a Maxstar 150 STL so I am familiar with lift start and understand this machine is not that, I just wanted to note that often an arc will not start unless I sometimes get close enough that the tungsten touches. I have never really heard the high frequency buzz that is apparent in tutorial videos so I question my technique and/or the machine
in AC.
As mentioned I bought this machine from a customer that purchased it brand new from a local welding shop to repair aluminum wheels. Quick searching on Facebook found pictures of their employee performing repairs so I have to believe that at one time it worked fine. I bought the entire setup: welder, bottle, regulator, cart, etc. and have since refilled the bottle with pure argon, purchased multiple cups and tungsten, and a variety of new filler rod.
As I mentioned previously I need to try again turning the regulator down but during my tests I have used different tungsten (orange, blue, green), ground on a dedicated stone, thoroughly cleaned, adjusted tungsten poke out, etc. with no success. If needed I can post a pic of the charred mess that it is creating.
I have a Maxstar 150 STL so I am familiar with lift start and understand this machine is not that, I just wanted to note that often an arc will not start unless I sometimes get close enough that the tungsten touches. I have never really heard the high frequency buzz that is apparent in tutorial videos so I question my technique and/or the machine
in AC.
As mentioned I bought this machine from a customer that purchased it brand new from a local welding shop to repair aluminum wheels. Quick searching on Facebook found pictures of their employee performing repairs so I have to believe that at one time it worked fine. I bought the entire setup: welder, bottle, regulator, cart, etc. and have since refilled the bottle with pure argon, purchased multiple cups and tungsten, and a variety of new filler rod.
As I mentioned previously I need to try again turning the regulator down but during my tests I have used different tungsten (orange, blue, green), ground on a dedicated stone, thoroughly cleaned, adjusted tungsten poke out, etc. with no success. If needed I can post a pic of the charred mess that it is creating.
Captain Obvious, reporting...
Since I am actually TRYING To help instead of telling someone how to adjust a machine that I know nothing about and settings that it doesn't have... Sheesh...
White 450
Hook up the machine to any material, turn it on AC or DC, DO NOT connect the work lead (ground) don't worry about gas or even current at this point press the pedal, see if you get the lightning (HF Start) not an actual ARC but the HF Start...
Is your tungsten clean and sharp? or at LEAST clean...
After we determine that then we will try troubleshooting something else...
IF the HF is not working (*you have to almost touch the surface with the current maxed out using the pedal... ) with the pedal, MASH that fker to the floor... if that doesn't work try the finger control to do the same thing... if you don't get the arc start... then you need to seek help from Miller... or we can get a schematic out and do it ourselves...
If you DO get the HF, then we will have to look at something else...
One last thing what EXACTLY is the billet material? 7075 or 6061? I don't care about filler yet, I want to know if the material lends itself to welding 6061 does, 7075 not as well, some 3003 scrap or coupons is pretty weldable...
Since I am actually TRYING To help instead of telling someone how to adjust a machine that I know nothing about and settings that it doesn't have... Sheesh...
White 450
Hook up the machine to any material, turn it on AC or DC, DO NOT connect the work lead (ground) don't worry about gas or even current at this point press the pedal, see if you get the lightning (HF Start) not an actual ARC but the HF Start...
Is your tungsten clean and sharp? or at LEAST clean...
After we determine that then we will try troubleshooting something else...
IF the HF is not working (*you have to almost touch the surface with the current maxed out using the pedal... ) with the pedal, MASH that fker to the floor... if that doesn't work try the finger control to do the same thing... if you don't get the arc start... then you need to seek help from Miller... or we can get a schematic out and do it ourselves...
If you DO get the HF, then we will have to look at something else...
One last thing what EXACTLY is the billet material? 7075 or 6061? I don't care about filler yet, I want to know if the material lends itself to welding 6061 does, 7075 not as well, some 3003 scrap or coupons is pretty weldable...
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10-4
I will have a little time tonight so I'll test a few things that you mention and report back.
Just for clarification you want me to NOT use the ground clamp while trying to get the arc started?
I'll try to find out what billet material we use and let you know there too. My guess is 6061 because we used to make wheel adapters from that type.
I will have a little time tonight so I'll test a few things that you mention and report back.
Just for clarification you want me to NOT use the ground clamp while trying to get the arc started?
I'll try to find out what billet material we use and let you know there too. My guess is 6061 because we used to make wheel adapters from that type.
383 240z
Well-known member
I don't know why but I've got in the habit of touching the tungsten to the work with no power flowing, lift it, then hit my pedal. I get a much more stable arc, and it lights off everytime.
Perceived difference... not real... but it DOES help you set your distance from your work... Lots of folks do that...
I just want you to see if the HF works... no work lead just the torch current doesn't matter gas doesn't matter (though your machine may not do anything with no gas present) Just like trying to start the arc but no arc will occur you will just see the HF start arc... "Blue Lightning" 6061 should work... if you have a metal supplier try getting some 4"x 4" 1/8" aluminum sheet drops, and run beads on those. Just keep running beads and stacking beads and crossing beads. But lets see first if you need Miller to take a look at the machine. Show your settings too if you can Like the pic of the 165 that I showed... but with your actual settings.
R.Anderson
Well-known member
The torch lead could be the culprit as well if there is a break in the lead.
Do the newer Miller HF have spark gaps like the older machines? dust and just use creates less or no gap making the HF not to work properly. Also if they do the points get worn and need to be readjusted.
I am trying to help here kkroger and I was not say to adjust or how to adjust machine. I posted that tid bit out there for others trying to TIG weld seeing that white 450 is not the OP, BikerDad is.
It is nice to see people say work lead and not ground.
Ok I just went out to try again.
1. If I leave the work lead off, regardless if in DC or AC nothing happens until you turn the gas on and then only gas flows through the torch.
2. If you hook the lead up DC starts the high frequency buzz and will immediately start the puddle and rock and roll.
3. If you hook up the lead in AC it will spark and make the high frequency buzz but it will not start a puddle no matter the distance of the tungsten to the material unless you touch the material then the tungsten temporarily "sticks" and then burns the hell out of it.
Some observations on what I saw tonight:
I began by using the pedal until it stopped while in DC and never responded again, even in AC, letting the machine rest, restarting, etc.
Gas flow from about 5 all the way to 40 had no effect on getting the puddle started in AC on aluminum.
The spacers I've been using are 6061 billet. Just for kicks I had a polished cast aluminum Torq Thrust cap that I used and it yielded the same results. I'm beginning to wonder if maybe I don't have some sort of equipment issue, especially after the pedal acted up tonight. Thoughts?
1. If I leave the work lead off, regardless if in DC or AC nothing happens until you turn the gas on and then only gas flows through the torch.
2. If you hook the lead up DC starts the high frequency buzz and will immediately start the puddle and rock and roll.
3. If you hook up the lead in AC it will spark and make the high frequency buzz but it will not start a puddle no matter the distance of the tungsten to the material unless you touch the material then the tungsten temporarily "sticks" and then burns the hell out of it.
Some observations on what I saw tonight:
I began by using the pedal until it stopped while in DC and never responded again, even in AC, letting the machine rest, restarting, etc.
Gas flow from about 5 all the way to 40 had no effect on getting the puddle started in AC on aluminum.
The spacers I've been using are 6061 billet. Just for kicks I had a polished cast aluminum Torq Thrust cap that I used and it yielded the same results. I'm beginning to wonder if maybe I don't have some sort of equipment issue, especially after the pedal acted up tonight. Thoughts?
Strange, I can get the start HF with no lead hooked up, on the diversion I do have to have gas on to get the machine to work... but I can get start HF with no work lead hooked up.. I don't have any issues with aluminum... does it work with the finger control?
Just wanted to post a follow up in case anyone else reads this thread in the future. I finally took the machine in to a Miller service center today and it was simply a bad regulator. It's weird because I could hear gas being pushed through but apparently it wasn't enough because when they hooked their flow meter up it fired off and started a puddle no problems. He did suggest that I only use a flow meter for TIG so I bought one and was on my way. Hopefully this helps someone else out in the future.
Also I noticed too that he tested it on some old piece of aluminum sheet that he did no prep work to and it put down a super clean weld so in my case it was definitely the shielding issue and not surface prep.
Also I noticed too that he tested it on some old piece of aluminum sheet that he did no prep work to and it put down a super clean weld so in my case it was definitely the shielding issue and not surface prep.
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