LED Colour Temperature

[EF Ian]

If there is a thread relating to this already then let me know, I couldn't find one, only some random posts in other threads. If not then perhaps it good to have a thread dedicated to colour temperature.






I've just about competed the purchase on my first house, and I'm happy to say its got a triple garage. I've got many plans for the garage which I'm currently working out the details of. A big one is lighting, I'm planning to use recessed LED lighting panels 1200x300. I want to order a sample now but I've realised I don't know which colour temperature to go for.

Garage use will be car and parts storage in two bays and a high bay at the end for a workshop equipped with a scissor lift and used for mechanical work, maintenance, project car building and detailing.





Now for most garages I believe the options suitable are between 4000k and 6000k. For the lights I am looking at I have the choice of 4000, 4500, 5000 and 6000. I believe 4000 may be good but possibly not white enough while 6000 may be too blue, I'm thinking 5000k could be a good halfway point but that limits me from a choice of 4 manufacturers to just one.



Could I have some experiences and opinions from those of you who have LED lights installed in their garages please.

I think it would be a good idea for people to post up a couple of photos of their respective garages saying what colour temperature it is. This would help to give others and idea of how each colour actually looks.

 

[Jack D]

I did 2 large wattage LED HiBays because I have a high ceiling in a relatively small garage (440 sq ft) using an LVL for a ridge beam. I had a choice of 4K or 5K and I decided on 5K. I have 3K LED recessed lights throughout my home and I kind of like the intense color of the higher temps.

I suggest that you go to a home store and buy a a high lumen 4K LED light and a 5K LED light and see what your eyes like better in the day and night.

 

[bczygan]

6K!!!

 

[RAYJAY]

6K!!!

x2 on the 6k its more like sun light


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature

 

[EF Ian]

I will try and find somewhere displaying different bulbs if I can. I don't want to order expensive light fittings to test them out but I guess I can just order some cheaper bulbs of differing colours and that should give me an idea.




Thanks for the link for the colour chart, however the problem is a lot of charts seem to give slightly different results.

The 4k light in this photo seems quite white, how much more blue is a 6k light?

 

[Showkey]

Jack has it right .......try one and see what you like. This has come up many times it personal preference. Many say 3k is too warm 5 or 6 is too blue and 4k is just right.

4K is my choice....CRI plays a part in this as well.

 

[e36jon]

I also settled on 4K and really like it so far. I carried that on into my kitchen and dining room can lights. I may do the accent lighting and hallways / etc. in a warmer color though.

When you also try and get the CRI above 90 your options become much more limited, or at least that was my experience. (Seemed like I was only seeing 3K and 4K for the LED can lights.)

 

[ishiboo]

I think it's completely up to you... buy some sample lights in known colors and take a look at them.

Many people here prefer the cooler temperatures. I much prefer warmer... 3500-4000 in the barn, 2700-3500 in the home.

 

[kwschumm]

IMO the only reason to use 6k lighting is if you are doing painting and need color rendering closer to daylight. I'm a fan of 4k in the shop and 2700-3k in the house.

 

[RAYJAY]

IMO the only reason to use 6k lighting is if you are doing painting and need color rendering closer to daylight. I'm a fan of 4k in the shop and 2700-3k in the house.

myself i can not use 4k or below the lighting is way to yellow to be of any use.

and the higher the kelvin number the more light output you get

When looking for LED’s a higher Kelvin Temp will usually increase the lumen output. IE The higher the Kelvin, the whiter and brighter (higher lumens) the lamp will produce.

 

[Showkey]

myself i can not use 4k or below the lighting is way to yellow to be of any use.

and the higher the kelvin number the more light output you get

When looking for LED’s a higher Kelvin Temp will usually increase the lumen output. IE The higher the Kelvin, the whiter and brighter (higher lumens) the lamp will produce.

Mostly NOT true.........temperture has no effect on lumens and most bulbs are available in multiple tempertures values with the exact same lumens.

 

[jjkrjh]

We are testing different LED lamps at work. They are switching from t8 to LED. Anything above 4000k gives a blue appearance. The employees on the floor hate them, can't get their work done blah blah blah. The 4000k's have a passing grade with them, other than they see dots if they look at them and can't see afterwards.(Safety issue)----- lol. I like working in 4000k lighting, but the cars look better with warmer lighting 3500k in the garage.

 

[EF Ian]

I guess its very much personal opinion/preference. Thats why I had hoped to see some photos of various garages running different setups.


I guess the only way I can be sure is to order some cheap GU10 LED bulbs in the various colours to help get some idea.




Whats the opinion on a dimmable setup? Is it better to have the option? I'm planning my high bay having 3 1200x300 panels (min 3200lm each) per side of the sloped roof recessed into the ceiling. The bay is roughly 3 x 6.5 metres.

 

[Jack D]

I'm not really sure that pictures are good to look at because you are at the mercy of the camera and the way it corrects for brightness. This is the HiBay that I used in my new garage. https://www.shineretrofits.com/simk...bution-fixture-multivolt-120v-277v-5000k.html

I use a home automation computer to control my two and I installed a dimming driver. With both fixtures on I am using almost 700w of power so I felt that being able to dim was going to pay for itself over a very long haul. In my case, I used a lighting software package to estimate the brightness at workbench levels. The normal recommendations for a auto repair business is 50fc (foot candles) to 100fc at workbench height. The software package estimated that I would get 85fc with two and 135fc with three fixtures. I wired the garage for three but will not install the third. I will concert the box to run a ceiling fan. I looked all over for these lights on the internet but I bought local because I bought them significantly less from a industrial/contractor supply. You can use Simkar website to create a lighting plan using their fixtures. I looked at using T8/T5 tubes and I had to buy so many to get above 50fc that these made more sense. These are all specifically designed for the height that I have them above the floor.

If you would like I can take a picture tomorrow in the daylight and also after sunset so you can see what I have.

 

[Showkey]

Example of color vs lumens in Sylvania T8.........just a sample ....there are dozens of variations in the T8 NOT to mention speciality bulbs.

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[cybrdyke]

Now for most garages I believe the options suitable are between 4000k and 6000k. For the lights I am looking at I have the choice of 4000, 4500, 5000 and 6000. I believe 4000 may be good but possibly not white enough while 6000 may be too blue, I'm thinking 5000k could be a good halfway point but that limits me from a choice of 4 manufacturers to just one.

Choose between 4000k and 5000k. 4500 is a ******* color, which means the manufacturer is using blemished or seconds diodes. 6000 is too blue for most people.

I think it would be a good idea for people to post up a couple of photos of their respective garages saying what colour temperature it is. This would help to give others and idea of how each colour actually looks.

I'm sure someone will post pics, but it's really hard to photograph and I doubt it will be very helpful. Different cameras, different lenses...etc...

I think it's completely up to you... buy some sample lights in known colors and take a look at them.

Yep. What he said. Take them home and try them.

.
and the higher the kelvin number the more light output you get

Nope. color temp and lumens are not related.

IMO the only reason to use 6k lighting is if you are doing painting and need color rendering closer to daylight.

Nope. color temp and CRI are not related.

I guess its very much personal opinion/preference. Thats why I had hoped to see some photos of various garages running different setups.

Yep. It's totally personal.

I guess the only way I can be sure is to order some cheap GU10 LED bulbs in the various colours to help get some idea.

Yep. Test it out in your space, not in the store.

Whats the opinion on a dimmable setup? Is it better to have the option?

With LED, you have more options with dimmers, controls, sensors, etc. Think about occupancy sensors for the storage area, so that the lights dont even come on unless you go there.

I'm not really sure that pictures are good to look at because you are at the mercy of the camera and the way it corrects for brightness.
.

Yes, what he said.

Good luck
CD

 

[rburke65]

Entirely up to you. Which one do you like? I went with the 5000K

 

[NUTTSGT]

I went from mostly T8 4100K regular fluorescents to T8 LED 5000K and for me it's night and day difference. I feel llike the shop is lit up twice as what it was before with a brighter/whiter light.

I was going to do a changeover slowly but after the first few sets of LEDs, the older T8s look way too yellow and I couldn't stand it. I went out and bought the rest of the LEDs that I needed.

Edit:

Hard to tell by taking pictures of lights but the right side is 5000K LED while the left is a standard 4100K fluorescent.

 

[classic boost]

personally, i can't stand the 5,000k and above. way too blue for me.

 

[Falcon67]

I run all 6500K T8. Have a pair of 4100K LED "T8" style (Sams $20) installed as a test but they are just too orange for my tastes. I could go 5000K. Whats odd to me is that inside in the kitchen and laundry I have 3500K LEDs and they seem whiter than the 4000K T8 replacements. See NUTTSGT post above, that's what I see with the Sams LEDs on one side and 6500s on the other end.

Might be that the ceilings in the house are white (more or less) and the shop uses unpainted OSB. Faking out my eyes. I have not seen 5000K LED T8s locally, that I recall. May need to look again.

 

[CJ7VFR]

I think it's completely up to you... buy some sample lights in known colors and take a look at them.

Many people here prefer the cooler temperatures. I much prefer warmer... 3500-4000 in the barn, 2700-3500 in the home.

Agreed, for my personal taste and preference.

I use the cool white (4100) in my garage, basement shop area and shed, and use mostly warm/soft white (2700-3500) in the house.

As everyone has suggested, the only real way to determine what you like is to get different bulbs and try them. What one guy likes in his garage/house may not be what you end up liking.

It all comes down to personal preference.

Jim

 

[Obi-Wan]

As a semi-pro photographer, I care a great deal about color temperature & CRI.

Clear, mid-day sun is about 5000K. Camera flashes are also 5000K.

The cloudier it gets outside, the higher the color temp goes, up toward 7000K, which is very blue.

"Golden hour" after sunrise & before sunset dips down below 4500K.

Tungsten / incandescent bulbs are somewhere around 3000K, but that varies with intensity. The dimmer an incandescent bulb gets, the more orange (lower temperature) it gets. LED bulbs do not vary temperature with intensity.

If you're trying to match nicely with existing incandescent (or 3000K CFL/LED) bulbs, then stick with something in the 2700-3000K range, but know that the light coming from your windows & garage doors will be considerably more blue.

If you're trying to match nicely with a camera flash or outdoor daylight, stick with 5000K, but know that incandescent bulbs will look considerably more yellow.

If you want a happy medium that doesn't match either of the above, go with 4100K fluorescent tubes.

If you're looking for the cheapest bulb possible & all they have is 6500K, then go with that, but know that everything else (even sunny daylight) will look yellow or orange in comparison. Unmarked LED's are most likely 6500K.

Color temp is only part of the story, though. The color rendering index (CRI) tells how much of the full spectrum of light is emitted, versus just a few frequencies here & there. Tungsten & daylight are, by definition, 100 CRI. Cheap CFL's and LED's can be as low as 70, which looks very harsh. 80 would be the bare minimum I could tolerate. I'd be much happier with 90, but those are hard to find & expensive.

Personally, when we moved 2 years ago, I had a goal of replacing all the bulbs in our house with 5000K LED's. I've managed to replace the porch lights, garage, and a couple of the kids bedrooms (with their blessing), but my wife prefers how warm (aka yellow) the tungsten bulbs look, so I think I'll have to stick with 3000K LED's inside most of the house. As a photographer, I really prefer to have all of my light--inside and outside--be the same color temp, which is why 5000K is the only thing I'll ever consider in my garage.

I hope this helps.

 

[Denwood]

I wrote a review on the Cree high CRI 4ft LED, so worth reading as I contrast with my goto fluorescent bulb, the Philips TL950 at 5000K and 98 CRI. These are pretty much the best combination if color accuracy is important. I also just finished a retrofit of 300 lamps with the new DLC rated Philips 12 watt 5000K LED 4' lamps. My staff love them, and this is coming from the TL950. The CRI ratings on the LED lamps are lower, but honestly my team can not tell the difference in day to day work.

On the home front, 3000K only, although many of our LED ZigBee automated bulbs do allow color temp between 3000-6000K.

Here's the Cree/high CRI flouro comparison: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=274462

5000K LED retrofit:

http://www.usa.philips.com/c-p/046677453886/led-instantfit-tube

 

[Pwaley]

Very helpful thread for my home remodel!

 

[Showkey]

Here is another example for lighting color temp. Newly remodeled produce and bakery section at Walmart, they lowered the lighting fixtures , warmed up the temp, made them more indirect lights , increased the FC to 100 ( 1000LUX) at bench levels. Notice in the background higher mounted lights much bluer likely 6000k at about 35 FC. The high blue ones are still up there in the remodeled section.

I am sure all of these changes to warmer and higher FC did not happen by accident........

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[gtae07]

I prefer 6500K in the shop and 5000K in the house. But that's just me.

 

[Sharpest]

IMO the only reason to use 6k lighting is if you are doing painting and need color rendering closer to daylight. I'm a fan of 4k in the shop and 2700-3k in the house.

This. I put one 4k LED recessed can replacement in my house to try it out and I hate it. Perfect for the shop though.