Left Over Lumber... Mine, Right?

[lakeroadster]

So we're in the final phases of framing my pole building. There is a considerable amount of left over lumber and the GC is acting like any left over lumber is his.

The building materials came from Nebraska. I made one of the progress payments, a material payment, when the semi load of material arrived at our home.

The GC is merely the local rep for the company. He didn't order any materials for this project nor will he be sending any of it back.

So if anybody is going to keep the left over lumber, joist hangers, etc... it should be the guy that bought the building, right?

Opinions?

Edit: Materials came from Illinois... not Nebraska.

 

[kesslerbmw]

I would believe so, the contractor is used to people not caring about the left overs I'm guessing. Just remind him you covered all material costs and the materials left over belong to you.

 

[SteveCh]

It's yours unless you had an agreement to let him have the left-overs. I'd secure it and put it away from his temptation. Just my opinion.

 

[LB-1911]

So we're in the final phases of framing my pole building. There is a considerable amount of left over lumber and the GC is acting like any left over lumber is his.

The building materials came from Nebraska.

I made one of the progress payments, a material payment, when the semi load of material arrived at our home.


The GC is merely the local rep for the company.

He didn't order any materials for this project nor will he be sending any of it back.


So if anybody is going to keep the left over lumber, joist hangers, etc... it should be the guy that bought the building, right?

Opinions?

It is yours

 

[readhead]

If it is a lot of material then you should be asking if it should have been installed. If not, why were you changed for so much material.

 

[Yourfired]

The leftovers definitely belong to you and nobody else. Tell him to stop trying to stick his hand in the cookie jar, there's no cookies there for him.

 

[G_P]

If you bought the materials, you own them no matter what the guy putting the building up says.
Redhead has a good point though, why is there so much left over?

 

[LXCam]

Sorry but I disagree. It's normal to order additional materials in case there is a problem at some point. Lets say they screwed up and cut some lumber too short or it looked like a propeller or damaged some brackets. Would you come to the table with additional funds to cover that cost?. Ya I didn't think so nor would I expect you too. But as a contractor it's cheap to have additional materials on hand in the event some unforeseen issue arises. If nothing goes sideways it's there for another day.

 

[homebuilt burner]

I would say it depends on what you ordered and paid for. Did you order a complete building from him? Or did you buy the materials and paid him to build you a building?

 

[AJ1978]

Keeping materials on hand for screw ups is one thing! But let me as this question maybe I read this wrong!
Are you saying that if a contractor or his employees cut something wrong it's the customers financial responsibility?
I call horse poop!
Now I built houses, decks, kitchens etc withy dad for years!
We seen where you quote the job they make a payment and it's for the job! So we either kept left overs or asked the customer if they wanted!

Not sure how much extra you have but if YOU paid for the materials they are yours

 

[KDXSR5]

It's all in how the contract is written. If the contract says that the contractor will furnish all materials to complete the job and you have a lump sum contract (including one with material and/or progress payments) with the contractor, then the material is his.

If you paid for all the material yourself and have a separate contract for assembling the building, then the material belongs to you.

Contracts exist for reasons just like this. Read your contract and get back with us on who really owns the material. My bet is you will be able to answer your own question fairly quickly once you read the contract.

 

[woodzy]

My opinion is (only if you agreed to a total price of the building labor and material) the extras are the General Contractor. They normally include more in the order because you can't wait for someone to run and purchase a few other pieces of lumber if the event some aren't usable or a few were short. Let's look at it this way, if you were short, would you be willing to pay additional dollars for extra if they had to go get more. Maybe someone at night came by and picked up a few for their use.

All during my house build, they would delivery material and when that trade was done, they would pick up the extra during the next delivery.

If you are smart during the build process you would get some of the material and keep in the event you needed a small piece of trim or a piece of siding. They actually delivered a couple of cabinets for a different job to my site and then picked them back up after I pointed it out. Don't sweat the small stuff. Sometimes it is easier / cheaper to delivery an entire bunk of wood instead of the 1/2 bunk you needed and just then move it to the next site once it is finished.

Now if you paid for all the materials and then the labor separately, you might have some reason you own this material.

 

[KDXSR5]

My opinion is (only if you agreed to a total price of the building labor and material) the extras are the General Contractor. They normally include more in the order because you can't wait for someone to run and purchase a few other pieces of lumber if the event some aren't usable or a few were short. Let's look at it this way, if you were short, would you be willing to pay additional dollars for extra if they had to go get more. Maybe someone at night came by and picked up a few for their use.

All during my house build, they would delivery material and when that trade was done, they would pick up the extra during the next delivery.

If you are smart during the build process you would get some of the material and keep in the event you needed a small piece of trim or a piece of siding. They actually delivered a couple of cabinets for a different job to my site and then picked them back up after I pointed it out. Don't sweat the small stuff. Sometimes it is easier / cheaper to delivery an entire bunk of wood instead of the 1/2 bunk you needed and just then move it to the next site once it is finished.

Now if you paid for all the materials and then the labor separately, you might have some reason you own this material.

This post makes a lot more sense to me than everyone screaming that the material is yours without actually knowing how the contract reads. Again, review your contract documents and it will be pretty clear who owns the material.

 

[James-W]

Maybe I have this wrong and if so please correct me. The opening poster bought a building from another State and it was shipped to him in kit form. He got a local general contractor (one that was suggested by the place he bought the building from) to put up the building.

I don't see how the general contractor has any right what-so-ever to claim the extra building material is his. All he is doing is putting up the building that the opening poster bought and paid for. The general contractor is not supplying any building materials, he is only supplying the labor to do the job.

 

[hh76]

Pretty good chance it's the contractors, it all depends on the contract.

You paid for materials to build a shed, that's what you get, not necessarily extras.

Did you write a check directly to the material supplier?

 

[ScottsGT]

We recently went through a similar situation here at work. But it was a carpet issue. Former employee went to work with a carpet company that we did yearly contracts with. He knew the inside scoop and how no one really ever followed up on measured square footage.
He got the call for a few rooms, measured and ordered after bid was accepted. Carpet arrives to job site and gets installed. Now here's where he got caught. His crew usually gets the excess out of the job site and out of sight before they finish. This time they didn't make the excess disappear in time and someone walked in and asked why there was so much carpet left over. Red flags were raised and they started looking into all of his quotes from past work.
The guy was doubling the square footage and ordering enough for twice the job and then (assuming) selling the excess on the side.
Still have not heard what the outcome of this was. But stealing from a state agency will be bad for him.

 

[LB-1911]

Maybe I have this wrong and if so please correct me. The opening poster bought a building from another State and it was shipped to him in kit form. He got a local general contractor (one that was suggested by the place he bought the building from) to put up the building.

I don't see how the general contractor has any right what-so-ever to claim the extra building material is his. All he is doing is putting up the building that the opening poster bought and paid for. The general contractor is not supplying any building materials, he is only supplying the labor to do the job.

Correct, It's a Lester designed package, build thread to include photos @
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=289293

 

[reader2580]

A good contract will state who gets any leftover materials. I have gutters installed and the contract specifically states the company keeps any leftovers. Seamless gutters so not much chance of leftovers, but the installers may bring extra downspouts and such just in case.

The contract for building my first house stated that lumber was only an allowance. I would pay for all lumber used. If they cut something wrong and had to throw it away I would pay for the replacement I guess. If a 2x4 is cut wrong it can probably be used elsewhere in a house. Not so much in a garage.

 

[Bondo]

It's all in how the contract is written. If the contract says that the contractor will furnish all materials to complete the job and you have a lump sum contract (including one with material and/or progress payments) with the contractor, then the material is his.

If you paid for all the material yourself and have a separate contract for assembling the building, then the material belongs to you.

Contracts exist for reasons just like this. Read your contract and get back with us on who really owns the material. My bet is you will be able to answer your own question fairly quickly once you read the contract.

Ayuh,.... I believe That is the correct answer,....

If ya bought a completed buildin',...
Ya bought the buildin', not the materials left over,....

The Contract is the final answer,....

Had a housin' manager try that on me years ago,...
Took out a big stone parkin' lot, 'n installed a lawn,....

After it was all said, 'n done, he wanted to be paid for the 10 loads of stone removed,....
Don't matter that I moved it a couple miles down the road, 'n used it to build a darn nice driveway for another guy,....
Contract said remove the parkin' lot, which we did,....

The value of the take-out material is built into the Contract,....
Or left over material,....

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

If you paid for it, it's yours. If the contractor just had it on site (just in case) then it's his.
I have no doubt that many people don't pay attention or even prefer not to be left with a pile of lumber and contractors use that to their advantage.

If there is wood that is unusable (twisted or damaged during shipping), send it back. The lumber yard should give you credit.

 

[woodzy]

Ok - I still will not change my mind from my original response.

If you hired them to supply the materials and labor for this building - it is his. If you purchased a kit and had him build it for you - it is yours. If he needed to add anything to this then you need to pay all his additional materials.

Still - don't sweat the small stuff - did he do a good job? Where you happy? Was it timely?

 

[James-W]

I doubt the contract would even mention anything about left over materials. The contract is to set up the terms for supplying the labor to put up the building. The materials for doing the job are already on the job site and have been paid for. All the general contractor is doing is putting the kit together, he is NOT supply any building materials. So how does the general contractor figure he can claim any left over building materials? If the general contractor was supplying the building materials I could see it, but he isn't supplying anything other than the labor to build the kit.

 

[LB-1911]

did he do a good job? Where you happy? Was it timely?

It is a quick read - 3 pages, 51 posts w/photos

11-12-2015 Framing Completed

Finished the framing of the barn today. So far so good, happy with the finished product thus far.

edit to add; OP, Inform the GC that your name is not "Always" ...

Good Luck

 

[rancherbill]

READ your contract. The Devil is always in the details.

There are many ways to write a contract. For example, you are to buy the materials OR you are to buy for them to build a building.

I think you own the materials.

 

[Iggi]

In this case it appears to be your material.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Lilke others said, read the contract.

It's pretty basic. You paid for a truckload of barn, which included their guy to build it. If the guy didn't build it (say, you and your extended Amish family built it instead) would they tell you to send the wood back that you didn't use?

It gets worse when you have both Lester sending you wood to replace items defective, AND the contractor buying materials for the barn (and out of whose pocket - his or yours?).

That's why you gotta read that Contract - you just can't tell until you do how things are or were split up when you contracted it.

Something else - A lot of the time those building packages will not have much overage, and if the contractor makes a bad cut or something they will replace their f***up. Which makes me wonder if there WAS that much overage what got skimped to create the pile o' slops? Will that building still handle 116 MPH loading etc? OR did the contractor decide that he could make it a little lighter and take some of that wood home and no one would notice?

See... it gets deeper and deeper...

 

[creativecars]

I don't understand why any industry expects for someone to pay for their screw ups? It does happen and it is part of doing business. If I go to Lowes buy a board and cut it wrong, they wont take it back. This seems to be a real situation in the building industry. The way of figuring cost seems to be in their favor also. What ever materials cost, they usually double it for the labor. There are no checks and balances for this method. Several years ago a electrician friend went into a residence to fix a problem and found several boxes of wire in the attic. They grabbed one end of the wire and went to the box, the other to a room and left 175' still in the box. This done for each room. The customer paid for 7 250' rolls of wire and then doubled that for the labor.
Needless to say, he walked away from that mess.

 

[Chase743]

Not much to add. I agree that it depends on what is in the contract.

Just one question. It sounds like the GC works for the company that supplied the lumber (you said he is a rep of theirs)?

If the GC claims that the extra lumber is "his", is he planning to bring it back to the lumber yard? OR is he taking it home and adding it to his personal stash?

 

[Capt Chrysler]

Who paid for the overage of supplies?


Capt. Chrysler

 

[MichaelBikel]

You paid for it? Then its yours. End of story.

 

[lakeroadster]

Contract Clearly States (exact wording is as follows):

Inclusions / Exclusions:
Includes Lester Building Material Package​

.

Why so much extra material? Early on there were a number of things that were wrong such as sending double joist hangers when singles were specified, pressure treated wood for ground contact that was labeled "not for ground contact", etc. I was told their regular Purchasing Agent was out of the office, and "a new guy" procured the materials.

All those materials, that were wrong and needed to be re-ordered, yeah, that belongs to Lester, if they want it. But shipping the materials from Colorado to Illinois... most likely that's cost prohibitive.

But the extra wood, they factor that in, and I paid for it.

It appears the Purchasing Guy may have simply not been able to read a print. I am guessing he ordered 2 x 6 girts for the walls.... and forgot to deduct that there aren't any girts where the overhead doors are.... rookie mistake.

 

[hh76]

I don't understand why any industry expects for someone to pay for their screw ups? It does happen and it is part of doing business. If I go to Lowes buy a board and cut it wrong, they wont take it back. This seems to be a real situation in the building industry. The way of figuring cost seems to be in their favor also. What ever materials cost, they usually double it for the labor. There are no checks and balances for this method. Several years ago a electrician friend went into a residence to fix a problem and found several boxes of wire in the attic. They grabbed one end of the wire and went to the box, the other to a room and left 175' still in the box. This done for each room. The customer paid for 7 250' rolls of wire and then doubled that for the labor.
Needless to say, he walked away from that mess.

Everything is priced taking "screw ups" into account. Minor mistakes in manufacturing are accounted for when determining cost to build something in a factory, why shouldn't the same be done in construction?

I'm not saying a builder shouldn't eat the cost of major mistakes, but if a couple 2x4s get scrapped, that's a part of the building process. If I quote a fixed price, I make sure to leave some room for unforeseen costs.

 

[creativecars]

Everything is priced taking "screw ups" into account. Minor mistakes in manufacturing are accounted for when determining cost to build something in a factory, why shouldn't the same be done in construction?

I'm not saying a builder shouldn't eat the cost of major mistakes, but if a couple 2x4s get scrapped, that's a part of the building process. If I quote a fixed price, I make sure to leave some room for unforeseen costs.

Exactly, Mistakes do happen and some room for little extras should be built in. If something is damaged it should go back to the mfg. And If you want to have some extras for 'just in case' then those should not be charged to me.

Why does another persons mistake cost me more money. If I screw up something, it is my responsibility to take care of it.

 

[Kevin54]

If Lake paid for, and ordered the building, the materials would be his, or it would be between him and Lester. If the GC ordered the building, then the materials would be the GC, or it would be between the GC and Lester. If the GC was paid to order a building by Lake, then the GC would have ownership of the extra materials. If Lake paid for the building, and the GC screwed up some cuts and scrapped some lumber, then the cost of more lumber is on the GC to make good.

 

[Kensgarage]

I would believe so, the contractor is used to people not caring about the left overs I'm guessing. Just remind him you covered all material costs and the materials left over belong to you.

Not even close to true unless the material was bid and invoiced separately.
Sometimes when I do a job I'll order an extra ** sacks of concrete or even an extra 50 pieces of rebar to be delivered to the job in case I run short. No need to wait. It's right there.
If I tell you I'm going to T&G a porch ceiling and order 50 extra boards to be able to select the best, the rest go home with me.Your job is complete. That's what you paid for.
Ya want the F*&^%in' saw blades too since I'm done ? Drill bits ? Left over nails out of the 50 lb box ?

To think otherwise is just goofy !

 

[hh76]

Exactly, Mistakes do happen and some room for little extras should be built in. If something is damaged it should go back to the mfg. And If you want to have some extras for 'just in case' then those should not be charged to me.

Why does another persons mistake cost me more money. If I screw up something, it is my responsibility to take care of it.

It does get charged to the customer in a fixed price quote. If I determine that a conduit run will be exactly 100ft, I may quote using 110ft with the assumption that some may be ruined by a mistake in the building process. If it doesn't, it goes on my truck. If I use 120ft, I eat that cost.

The job was quoted for one finished product, not time and materials.

 

[pepi]

They belong to the guy that paid the bill... and that is you. Put a sign up do not remove, OWNER. Take a picture you will have all you need to recover any theft.

Or you could offer to sell to him that might give him a clue that it belongs to you. I love the angles these clowns try to pull over on folks... Count every board now you know he is eyeballing your wood pile, even mark the ends for a better visual.

Thank is called checkmate

 

[atthebeach]

When my shop was built, the contract did not directly address left over materials. The contractor was hired to provide labor and material to complete the job. When the job was nearing completion, I advised the contractor I was going to buy materials to build benches and shelving, and requested he leave behind any materials that I paid for. He left everything behind that did not belong in the dumpster. He said most customers don't want overage material and he has a whole barn full of "free" material from completed jobs that customers did not want.

 

[creativecars]

hh76- If that is the way it is quoted and bid then fine, all is good.

It seems as the op may have some other arrangement or contract situation.

 

[PugetDude]

Not even close to true unless the material was bid and invoiced separately.
Sometimes when I do a job I'll order an extra ** sacks of concrete or even an extra 50 pieces of rebar to be delivered to the job in case I run short. No need to wait. It's right there.
If I tell you I'm going to T&G a porch ceiling and order 50 extra boards to be able to select the best, the rest go home with me.Your job is complete. That's what you paid for.
Ya want the F*&^%in' saw blades too since I'm done ? Drill bits ? Left over nails out of the 50 lb box ?

To think otherwise is just goofy !

You sound like the carpenter I hired who ordered multiple new blades for his compound miter saw, table saw, skilsaw, sawzallsaw, jigsaw, rotozip, multi-tool, utility knife- $700+ - on the first lumber order. He was doing a small master bedroom/bath remodel. I called BS. Found out later he had a habit of doing this, then returning most of it after the job was finished.

If it gets used on my project, I'll gladly pay for it. If you're going to grossly over-order and then expect to keep the "leftovers" then we are going to have a problem. A few leftover boards, a couple sticks of rebar-no problem; 50 extra- no way.