Left Over Lumber... Mine, Right?

[lakeroadster]

Lot of strong opinions on the 'extra' material already stated. Regardless of how that lands, make certain that the finished shed is constructed as per Lester Building's design/plan. Materials, frame spacing, joinery, everything.

Sage advice.

I will state again that it is my belief from the vague answers by the O.P. that the G.C. purchased the materials and therefore gets to dispense with them as he sees fit.

The same rules apply if it were reversed. For example today an elderly woman contracted with me (last Friday) to build her a laundry room in her basement. I must have used a Harbor Freight tape measure when I initially measured the space because my walls ended up being 3' longer than I had planned for. Who do you think is paying for the extra dimensional lumber, sheetrock, tile, and what not? I am. I contracted to build a laundry room and was paid a deposit for it. I would only ask for an additional amount if I found a serious unforeseen issue such as mold or faulty wiring but never for a screw up I made that is absolutely no fault of my client. Now I might still end up with a few extra outlets or piece of pipe or two when the job is done, those I will probably hang on to unless the client expresses an interest in them...

How is your example in any way similar to the subject of this thread, as defined by my original post? Focus on the bold text of my original post, as shown below.

In the case of my pole barn, Lester (the manufacturer) engineered, designed, procured, fabricated and shipped everything to my home. The GC, in this instance, only supplies labor and tools.

In the case you described... you as the GC are doing all of these tasks.

Apples and Oranges.

So we're in the final phases of framing my pole building. There is a considerable amount of left over lumber and the GC is acting like any left over lumber is his.

The building materials came from Nebraska. I made one of the progress payments, a material payment, when the semi load of material arrived at our home.

The GC is merely the local rep for the company. He didn't order any materials for this project nor will he be sending any of it back.

So if anybody is going to keep the left over lumber, joist hangers, etc... it should be the guy that bought the building, right?

Opinions?

Edit: Materials came from Illinois... not Nebraska.

 

[Git]

It sounds like one of the problems is your refusal to acknowledge that Lester does not deal directly with the public.

YOU can't order anything from them - But, your local rep/dealer can

From the Lester web site:

Q. Can you give me a ballpark price?
A. Each Lester Building is a custom building based on the customer’s location and needs. All planning, pricing and construction services are provided by your local Lester Dealer or Lester Representative.

Also, every county has its own rating for wind load and snow load that a building must withstand. All Lester Buildings are designed and engineered to meet (or exceed) those ratings. Therefore, the design will vary per county, which, in turn, varies the pricing.

Secondly, we meet with our customers at the building site to help determine the best design for a building's purpose. Unlike other post-frame building companies who only offer a few predetermined designs, Lester Buildings' design options are endless. Our local Dealers / Reps are experts in the local building codes, and they know what foundation options are best for the soil in your area. To set up an appointment with a Lester Dealer

Q. Why can’t I talk to someone from the main office to get a price?
A. All of our Dealers / Representatives live in the sales territory they cover. They're eager to develop a personal relationship with you and find out what’s important to you as you move forward.

 

[Tim The Tool Man]

How is your example in any way similar to the subject of this thread, as defined by my original post? Focus on the bold text of my original post, as shown below.

In the case of my pole barn, Lester (the manufacturer) engineered, designed, procured, fabricated and shipped everything to my home. The GC, in this instance, only supplies labor and tools.

In the case you described... you as the GC are doing all of these tasks.

Apples and Oranges.

I guess you are not interested in the facts and instead started this thread to ease your conscience and have us all tell you it is okay to steal from your General Contractor. Go ahead and keep the wood and hardware! Not my circus not my monkey.

 

[404]

I am putting your text in red and my reply in blue. Too much blather to do multiple quotes.

QUOTE=justanengineer;5276007 No, its the opinion of someone who spends a few million annually on prototypes, sets up 1st run production pricing agreements, and has a history of getting prices and deals both professionally and personally so good that few here could comprehend - pro-bono quite often.

Congratulations on being a legend in your own mind.

Btw, the OP himself established he doesnt have any legal right to the material a few pages back since he had one contract.

Ask anybody in ANY trade or business, they're going to add a small percentage to the cost of every job for unforeseen issues, expenses, a good customer's lunch, other "costs of doing business." If they ****** the estimate, the job, or otherwise its a lifesaver, if not its a few bucks that helps lower the cost of the next job. If I order a dozen prototype parts from a fab/machine/other shop, unless its uber pricey/rare they're going to order extra stock, likely full bar/tube lengths/sheets.

No absolutely not. For some one off ding bat project with an unusual size of material, they are going to order cut to size from the supplier. A job shop is does not have the space or money to have all this extra stock laying about just in case. I used to work at a fabrication job shop, so don't BS me.

They're also going to order whatever they need to build special jigs/fixtures and tools to get the job done bc if theyre late customers like me start losing big bucks quickly ($thousands/day a part is late isnt uncommon for me).

Yes you are awesome, we got that.


If they need 70% of a bar or sheet for my job I might not pay for a full bar, but I'd likely pay for at least 80% of it.

With mark up on material you will be paying for 2 bars when they use 70 percent.

From experience, one of the easiest ways to run up the cost of a job is to be a PITA customer, its the #1 reason why there are so many jokes about purchasing depts and homeowners. The truly sad part is that most dont even realize theyre doing so.

I guess you never heard of getting quotes from several job shops?

When I outsource work personally or professionally there's only two things that matter - the job being done correctly and the bottom line. Incidental fees like extra material costs, tooling, etc that are factored in are irrelevent bc 5% on materials doesnt matter in most cases when a ticked tradesman's rate goes from $50/hr to $100/hr on the next job, lead times go from 2 to 12 weeks, and quality drops. The auto industry's famous for this, they call it "cost reduction," the supplier takes 5% off for a year or two then doubles prices while dropping quality to the minimum allowable. Folks gladly argue/beat on businesses over the stupid **** on individual bills not realizing it costs them serious money in the long term, they miss the proverbial forest for the trees. In this case the OP's arguing over (I'd venture a WAG) a few hundred, maybe a grand worth of material on a bill thats tens of thousands. If they offer it great, but if not there's no sense digging into legalities. He might "win" the argument this time, but guaranteed with that attitude he'll lose it several times over long term when he next needs a contractor, or one of this crew go work in a body shop and he needs his car painted, his mower worked on, etc./QUOTE

Rubbish. Utter and complete rubbish. You are making the "lie back and think of England" argument, combined with the "do what they tell you or they will hurt you even more" argument.

By the way, since you are such an awesome professional, have you ever heard of this thing called spell check? Sheesh.

Are you a second account by that Steinmetz guy I have in my ignore list?

 

[lakeroadster]

It sounds like one of the problems is your refusal to acknowledge that Lester does not deal directly with the public.

YOU can't order anything from them - But, your local rep/dealer can

From the Lester web site:

You are making my point.

Many here keep saying that if I had purchased the building from 'the manufacturer" then the material would be mine.

The point is, it is not possible to order from the manufacturer.

 

[readhead]

How were the payments made and to whom?

I missed something along the way and misspoke earlier. When I sell a metal building I am representing the building company. I am the local face of the building company. You would give me a deposit which I send along to the building company to secure your place in line. When the building arrives you give me a check for the material being delivered. When the building is finished you give me a final payment. Normally I would clean up and remove all material from the job. They are not yours. You got the building you contracted for. As a courtesy I give the owner the option of keeping some of the left over material because I quite frankly don't want to store it. All the checks you wrote had my name on them.

What I don't understand is you coming on here asking for help and then refusing to answer simple questions. We still don't know how much material you are talking about. One 2x4 or twenty 2x4's? I asked before, are you just wondering about this or has it become an issue with the GC? Help us to help you.

 

[lakeroadster]

I guess you are not interested in the facts and instead started this thread to ease your conscience and have us all tell you it is okay to steal from your General Contractor. Go ahead and keep the wood and hardware! Not my circus not my monkey.

And I guess you are not following along...

Whatever Lester decides is what will happen, done deal. No lawyers or arguing.

What I don't understand is you coming on here asking for help and then refusing to answer simple questions. We still don't know how much material you are talking about. One 2x4 or twenty 2x4's? I asked before, are you just wondering about this or has it become an issue with the GC? Help us to help you.

There's not much, maybe 20 boards, 2 x 4's and 2 x 6's and some joist hangers and misc. fasteners that are left over.

I just asked for opinions, it's not an issue. I was just looking for input, not conflict, name calling or accusations of thievery.

Later guys... Thanks to all for your input: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

Happy Trails

 

[Git]

You are making my point.

Many here keep saying that if I had purchased the building from 'the manufacturer" then the material would be mine.

The point is, it is not possible to order from the manufacturer.

I think EVERYONE agrees that if YOU purchased directly from the manufacturer/lumber yard/etc - the material is YOURS

YOU DID NOT purchase from the manufacturer/lumber yard/etc - so the material is not yours....

(no matter how you try to justify it, only your GC/Lester Rep can order the building, YOU CAN NOT)

 

[csp]

How were the payments made and to whom?

I asked that earlier and he still hasn't answered. Will probably allude to an earlier post which still doesn't say who's name the check was written out to.

 

[PugetDude]

So, OP, can't just leave a thread like this hanging... Did you end up keeping the materials?

 

[lakeroadster]

So, OP, can't just leave a thread like this hanging... Did you end up keeping the materials?

I emailed the manufacturer... this was there response:

"Bills of material are made with sufficient material listed to complete the building as ordered. Occasionally, material overages are listed or loaded in error. This extra material remains the property of Lester and arrangements can be made for pick up if the overages are significant. The dealer will not be issued a credit for overages."

Once the project is done I'll let you know how it all settles out.

 

[mikefromme]

Wow, all this over 20 two by fours. They're probably culls anyways.

As a contractor I'd leave them if you wanted them.


As a homeowner maybe buy the crew a couple pizzas for lunch and ask all nice like.

 

[CTyankee]

Wow, all this over 20 two by fours. They're probably culls anyways.

As a contractor I'd leave them if you wanted them.


As a homeowner maybe buy the crew a couple pizzas for lunch and ask all nice like.

If you read the thread the OP said the extra material was due to improper ordering by the company.

This thread only reached 7 pages because so many folks deemed it necessary to post opinions about situations that are not anywhere near equivalent to what the OP has stated.

 

[reader2580]

customers don't want overage material and he has a whole barn full of "free" material from completed jobs that customers did not want.

This is not the first time I have heard of contractors taking home leftover materials that customers did not want. I don't understand why these contractors don't use the material on the next job to make money. I wouldn't see any issue with the contractor charging the next customer for these materials as the materials now belong to the contractor.

 

[lakeroadster]

So, OP, can't just leave a thread like this hanging... Did you end up keeping the materials?

Once the project is done I'll let you know how it all settles out.

The contractor took the lumber.

 

[Hpozzuoli]

I am a builder. I despise leftover plywood and drywall. I leave it for the customer or send it to the dumpster. I try to leave my customer with some wood. It isn't necessarily the cost or wanting to hoard leftovers, but rather most customers don't want left over wood to store. Generally wood goes back with the builder unless he wants to leave a care package.

 

[ryan20021982]

We have never had a problem with people trying to take left overs but I work with my dad who owns his own business and we do just about anything from remodeling to entire houses and when you get a bid for lets say a garage, the bid is for the garage and not the garage and left over materials. If we order enough to make sure we have plenty that does not mean the homeowner is entitled to the extra. I have never heard of the homeowner having rights to extra materials. If you paid for a garage you will get a garage and that's it. Now we do leave things that we do not want anyways like a extra bundle of shingles but we do ask the homeowner if they want them in case of a repair or if they add something out the roof.

 

[stikman56]

Well, you paid for the building, right? That would mean the materials to build it. So, it's not yours, unless the contract says different.

 

[outlawz2004]

Thanks my view as well, I paid for the materials to build the garage, if there is anything left over it should be mine if I wanted it. My contractor had the same viewpoint as me. I asked him to leave all the leftover materials to use at a later time, and he had no problems with it. He stated "you paid for it, if you want it keep it". Saves us from loading it up and hauling it to the next job.

 

[Wanna Ride]

This is the correct answer for the question posed. Until all other details are defined, this continues to be the answer. A lot of hast y responses in this thread... pump the brakes a tad, boys.

I would say it depends on what you ordered and paid for. Did you order a complete building from him? Or did you buy the materials and paid him to build you a building?

 

[truckman5000]

Depends
If its time/ material bid = customer can keep over stock or it can be returned for a 20% loss.
Bid job. The material is the contractor.

Reason is i usually order more to do the job, because different crews will do something different, so the extra material saves labor time. The extra left over material the owner didnt pay for, I did, to save on labor cost.