Lets build an industrial grade deruster
- Thread starter trbomax
- Start date
Ive had to take some time off from it. I have some friends comming up over the 4th that are going to help set up my lift and bridge crane that have been setting in the corner for over a year.Had to clear out all the compressor parts I had laying around by putting them together.Got the floor chalk lined for the lift today. I have all the components to finish the deruster and could get it running in 2-3 days.Have patience please!
Another keener up here in Canada following the thread. Looking forward to more progress, and especially the first before and after pictures when it's done. I've started to sniff around up here for the ingredients as well, so if anyone on here is in Canada and knows where to get the bulk chemicals, please chime in.
he had a couple heaters that just hung over the edge of the buckets
I deal with concrete sample testing, we keep our samples in huge water baths at 72 degrees, we have heater that clip on to the so call horse troughs.
you can buy these heater cheap from soil and concrete testing supplies. so google concrete testing supplies
http://www.humboldtmfg.com/heaters.html
http://www.forneyonline.com/Concrete/Curing/WinterCuringKit/LA-1304
the one from forney is the ones we have
I deal with concrete sample testing, we keep our samples in huge water baths at 72 degrees, we have heater that clip on to the so call horse troughs.
you can buy these heater cheap from soil and concrete testing supplies. so google concrete testing supplies
http://www.humboldtmfg.com/heaters.html
http://www.forneyonline.com/Concrete/Curing/WinterCuringKit/LA-1304
the one from forney is the ones we have
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BADSIX
Well-known member
me to 
deejaaa
Member
good info. subscribed.
metalmagpie
Well-known member
Looks like this project didn't work out and the OP just faded into the wallpaper.
BADSIX
Well-known member
I hope not! I'm really interested in the way he's doing the derusting, its a real good process. I would like to know what chemicals he is going to use to strip paint before using the derusting tank.
While we're all waiting, I'm interested to hear what sources people have come up with for the components for the mixture. Sodium Gluconate seems to be rather rare to find (at least for me anyway)
Thanks.
BADSIX
Well-known member
my brother in law has a dairy farm, about 200 head I think. He tells me that they use caustic soda or lye around the farm and he should be able to get it, same for cyanide. For the sodium gluconate , I think you can get it on line. I don't think its a hazardous chemical so it shouldn't be hard to find. I'm going to do some research and see what I can come up with. This thread has got so old and quiet that I forgot where I was going to get it.
BADSIX
Well-known member
one thing that should be asked is how to neutralize the solution if you need to get rid of it. The lye is fairly easy to neutralize but i'm not sure about the other chemicals and when they are mixed all together.
you can Google sodium gluconate and learn a lot. I'm sure we are talking Gluconate not glucamate .
I would also like a to learn more about a power supply for like 200 to 300 gal.
Jay D
you can Google sodium gluconate and learn a lot. I'm sure we are talking Gluconate not glucamate .
I would also like a to learn more about a power supply for like 200 to 300 gal.
Jay D
reverendjonas
Member
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2009
- Messages
- 16
Those server power supplies are quite a 12v beast. I hooked one up to a 5 gallon bucket, and in a few hours the water was almost around 180 degrees. Enough to where the water was evaporating off very quickly.
softailgarage
Well-known member
Good thread. As a former Gold Plater this brings back alot of memories, I just have to think in reverse, adhesion vs. removal.
Dairy Farm - right-o. I think I can dig around until I find someone that knows someone in that business. Thanks for the lead.
On the Sodium Gluconate - the only sources online that I found were astronomical in price- it would have cost 1000 dollars to do a tank. I am sure it was some lab grade/ultr pure thing I was looking at. It also seems to me that this was being included as a wetting agent and if so, perhaps there are other options.
Thanks for the leads.
BADSIX
Well-known member
Yes I here you on the on line prices, we'll keep researching.
Jay D
Jay D
BADSIX
Well-known member
anything happening here , I haven't seen any post from the O.P. for a long time, I hope he's all right.
Jay D
, I haven't seen any post from the O.P. for a long time, I hope he's all right. Jay D
anything happening here
Jay D
I tried a PM a while back but got nothing. I too hope he's ok.
anyheck
Well-known member
This seems to be the MFG of the sodium gluconate AKA sodium salt of gluconic acid he has in the bag.
http://www.pmpinc.com/Products/Sodium-Gluconate.aspx
Perhaps they can direct you to suppliers.
http://www.pmpinc.com/Products/Sodium-Gluconate.aspx
Perhaps they can direct you to suppliers.
anyheck
Well-known member
Synonyms:
Sodium D-Gluconate
D-gluconic acid sodium salt
Dextro-gluconic acid sodium salt
D-gluconic acid sodium salt (1:1)
Dextro-gluconic acid sodium salt (1:1)
Sodium 2,3,4,5,6-pentahydroxyhexanoate
Sodium D-gluconate
Mono sodium gluconate
It is a food additive used in an industrial scale.
http://noshly.com/additive/e576/sequestrant-plus/576/
http://www.codexalimentarius.net/gsfaonline/additives/details.html?id=286
Technical (Industrial Grade) 50# bag:
http://store.galladechem.com/sodium-gluconate-technical-grade-50-lb-bag-p18591.aspx
Sodium D-Gluconate
D-gluconic acid sodium salt
Dextro-gluconic acid sodium salt
D-gluconic acid sodium salt (1:1)
Dextro-gluconic acid sodium salt (1:1)
Sodium 2,3,4,5,6-pentahydroxyhexanoate
Sodium D-gluconate
Mono sodium gluconate
It is a food additive used in an industrial scale.
http://noshly.com/additive/e576/sequestrant-plus/576/
http://www.codexalimentarius.net/gsfaonline/additives/details.html?id=286
Technical (Industrial Grade) 50# bag:
http://store.galladechem.com/sodium-gluconate-technical-grade-50-lb-bag-p18591.aspx
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BADSIX
Well-known member
Just wondering, does anyone know what happened to this guy? He started this thread with a lot of good information then bam no more contact. It looks like he's been on here quite some time with a lot of posts. it just seems strange he would disappear all of a sudden 
Jay D
Jay D
BADSIX
Well-known member
ha, that thought was kinda in the back of my mind also. but its no different than a lot of other builds on here.
Jay D
Jay D
IONH
Well-known member
Will someone just play the tape already??
BADSIX
Well-known member
what does that mean, 
JOHNMAN
Well-known member
Did this ever get built?
Xicaque
Well-known member
great question? did it?
I'm still subscribed to this thread in the faint hope that it gets revived but I have my doubts.
In the meantime, I came across some threads/comments on the web on these Rubbermaid stock tanks. Apparently they are prone to cracking and leaking under the weight of the liquid if it's not supported properly. And, for your pleasure, the cracks appear on the bottom in an inaccesible place, usually along the "ribs" and they are not visible once you drain the tank as they close up again ! Just a FYI if someone starts to build one of these.
In the meantime, I came across some threads/comments on the web on these Rubbermaid stock tanks. Apparently they are prone to cracking and leaking under the weight of the liquid if it's not supported properly. And, for your pleasure, the cracks appear on the bottom in an inaccesible place, usually along the "ribs" and they are not visible once you drain the tank as they close up again ! Just a FYI if someone starts to build one of these.
Xicaque
Well-known member
Good support is critical. Not sure what material they are made of.... I was going to use 1 or 2 for fish keeping...
That's probably ok. The thought of one of these 100 gallon beasts full of hot sodium hydroxide, gluconate and cynaide springing a leak in the garage gave me the heebie jeebies. An incident like that would certainly eclipse the eposide a few years back when I filled the house with solvent fumes when the ventilation system came on at the wrong time
.....my wife has still not forgotten that one.....My Old Tools
Well-known member
The metal anodes need cleaning regularly to keep up the electrolysis action. If you'll change to graphite, they don't erode as fast and don't need cleaning.
http://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/members/trbomax-65075.html
trbomax is posting on the above forum. If any of you belong then PM him there and ask him to come back and join us here again.
lg
no neat sig line
metalmagpie
Well-known member
I have used graphite electrodes. What happened for me was that 1) the current stayed the same (this was with a constant voltage source), 2) the solution turned an inky black, 3) the graphite piece I used wore away rather quickly. I got graphite "drops" from an EDM shop, and also I got a handful of arc gouging electrodes that weren't copper jacketed.
My "go-to" electrodes these days are made from sheet lead. The sheets do gunk up a bit but the resistance never goes up, and it doesn't get the solution or the workpiece any dirtier than anything else. BTW the best way to clean sheet lead anode is to set it up as a workpiece (the cathode) and run electrolytic current through for awhile. Cleans them right up, although they never look like new again.
I did a fair bit of electrolytic derusting during the restore of an old machine tool last year. This included use of sheet lead electrodes. If you want to see it here is the thread:
http://www.nwnative.us/Grant/shop articles/MEC275/projectWebPage.html
metalmagpie
Just read your restoration story on the chop saw - great work ! I'm in the middle of trying to do a similar restoration on an old British lathe. The bed and headstock being all one piece, it's a monster to try and wrestle around and get at for stripping and cleaning. Been tinkering at it for months....no wait, years.......
where do I find those 3M deburring wheels you talk about?
Graphite is from ebay, a flat rate box of slabs that are about 13x5x1
I drill and tap 1/4 20 holes in the ends and then make setscrews out of SS bolts to screw the pieces together. So the electrodes are about 4 ft long.
Power to the electrodes is a ring terminal with a brass screw going into tapped hole on top of graphite. This connection is above the water line so it does not get corroded.
At one point I upgraded from using a battery charger to using an inverter welder supply. Things went faster, but the heat at the connection to the graphite made little cracks in the graphite. So I made new connection holes and went back to the bat charger.
To support the electrodes I made holders out of pvc pipe. The side of the pipe is cut away in sections, leaving a frame of plastic. The electrode weight is supported from the bottom by sitting on the wall thickness of the pvc. This tank is outside and in the winter I pull out the electrodes so they don't get damaged by the ice when the tank freezes.
Did not want to pull on the wires.
The part being cleaned does come out with black on it. I go after it with the pressure washer but there is some black left.
So there is still work to be done afterwards, but for me it is a good step on the process.
I have 4 electrodes, 1 in each corner of the tank. Even with that I would like some device to rotate the part being cleaned but have been too lazy to do so yet.
Regards,
404
My Old Tools
Well-known member
I have no black in the water and the plates don't appear to be eroding at all. Mine "HLM" grade whatever that means bought on eBay. (2) 3/8" THICK x 11 5/8" W x 17 1/8" L bolted to each end of my tank. I use a regulated power supply because the grahite plates when used with a large object to derust (like a metal drawer) pulled too much current and my battery charger would crowbar. My regulated supply runs about 6 amps and 6 volts most of the time. I would like a bit more current, but a bigger supply gets pricey and I have lots of time.