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drivesitfar

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these guys know their vises that is for sure. I have to tell you that it not only has the swivel back jaw, but it has the pull pin swivel base too. probably a 6 incher and if no cracks or welds that we can't see in the picture you posted it's a definite keeper. the back swivel jaw on these old vises sometimes has never been used so might need a little chemical treatment to unlock it, but it is a great vise.
 

jakemac

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What the heck is "100grass lbs" ?

Is that how much he smoked before selling the vise to get more ?
 

Filson

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He's probably pointing out that its *really* heavy. Like 100lbs of brick heavy, opposed to 100 lbs of feathers. :thumbup:
 

EOC_Jason

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Yeah that is a Prentiss, I would guess Model 20, which is 5.25" wide jaws and weighs 109 lbs. It might be a 4.5" model, but it really looks bigger than that so I'm sticking with 5.25"...

The 6" model weighs 168lbs, it doesn't look *that* big to me...

If there is no damage to it, then yeah $150 is a good price, being CL though you could probably haggle him lower. Check it over for cracks & repairs though, Prentiss vises are pretty old and get beat on a lot, but they are heavy duty.
 
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bareass172

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I emailed the guy to see if I can get any more info on it. I looked up a Prentiss 20 on Ebay and this one looks much bigger. The one on Ebay had a tape in the pic and it looked to be about 14-15" "deep". The one in that pic appears to be over 2 feet deep. Quite large! Heck, if I estimate the jaw size from the tape in the picture (very inaccurate, I know) it does appear that it might be a 6" jaw...

I'm thinking it may be a Prentiss 23... :confused:
 
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ajchien

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I emailed the guy to see if I can get any more info on it. I looked up a Prentiss 20 on Ebay and this one looks much bigger. The one on Ebay had a tape in the pic and it looked to be about 14-15" "deep". The one in that pic appears to be over 2 feet deep. Quite large! Heck, if I estimate the jaw size from the tape in the picture (very inaccurate, I know) it does appear that it might be a 6" jaw...

I'm thinking it may be a Prentiss 23... :confused:

Just go, see it, look it over, haggle a bit, and if you agree on a price, bring it home.

Emailing for more info is inviting a "you snooze, you lose" situation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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bareass172

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I just have no idea what it'd actually be worth if it is a 23. It seems to be so rare that I can only find VERY basic information on it, mostly from others who have restored them. No clue on value.
I'm not really in the market for another vise, I'm buying one from another member here, but if it was worth a lot then I would enjoy taking it on as a restore project to sell later.

I found this thread, it's really starting to look like a 23.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3711876

Also, the 23 has 7" jaws. I photoshopped the image, cut out 6" of the tape measure and moved it over the jaws and it looks bigger than 6". I know that's not scientific, but for guesswork... ;)
 
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drivesitfar

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if it was pristine i'd want it for my bench and be willing to pay $250 and maybe a bit more. since it isn't pristine then quite a bit less, but if it looks better in person and doesn't have any issues (welds, cracks or missing pieces) then your call because this one will not come up every day.
 

EOC_Jason

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fyi, I have a ''No. 20" with 4.5 inch wide jaws. weighs 60-70 pounds

Whoops, I meant 21... little typo... Prentiss' numbering scheme makes no sense...

ANYHOW... I went outside to measure vise lengths since that tape measure looks around 26"... Yeah that is about as long as my Reed 4C... So yeah you are looking at a Prentiss 22 or 23

DROP EVERYTHING YOU ARE DOING AND GO GET THAT VISE!!! :willy_nil
 

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bareass172

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So yeah you are looking at a Prentiss 22 or 23
The 22 has that little lever thing on the swivel base, not the round knob - that's why I really think it's a 23. I contacted the guy, he was at work last night. If I don't hear from him soon I'm going to call him and see if I can go by and check it out.
 
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WhoWhatNow

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The 22 has that little lever thing on the swivel base, not the round knob - that's why I really think it's a 23. I contacted the guy, he was at work last night. If I don't hear from him soon I'm going to call him and see if I can go by and check it out.


I think the lever verses knob has to do with when and for whom it was made. Prentiss also make unmarked vises which they sold to other companies/hardware stores. They would pug a label on it and sell it as their own brand. It is possible that the vise will have no markings on it. If that is the case look under the dynamic jaw for the letters "PVC".
 
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bareass172

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Invaluable bit of info, thanks! I was analyzing the picture and can't make out any markings at all, but it's taken from the "blank" side so I could only see where the top markings should be.
 

EOC_Jason

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The 22 has that little lever thing on the swivel base, not the round knob - that's why I really think it's a 23.

The lever & plug are just different production styles over time. Prentiss was making these vises for probably over 50 years so things changed a little now and then.
 

drivesitfar

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Bareass: in case you do get to see this vise in person just make sure the back slide doesn't have any cracks because a lot of these big Prentiss vises were beat on back there by their owners thinking it was an anvil. also if you can pull out the front dynamic slide all the way (don't drop it) and turn it over to check out the screw and to see if any welds, cracks or missing parts that would help you know if you are getting a good vise.

this is definitely a big old US made Prentiss or like one member said Prentiss might have made it for somebody else and it's a good buy at $150 if not any cracks, welds or missing parts.

Just an FYI. the swivel jaw pins are sometimes stuck and also the jaw too from lack of using that option. the best way to remove the swivel pin on the jaw is from down below by poking a small bolt up in the hole and pushing up on it.

Since you posted a Craigs listing ad with the seller's phone # on it the vise may have already been grabbed up by anyone doing a google search on Prentiss because the first place they are sent is GJ.

good luck
 
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bareass172

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OK, just got back from checking it out. There are NO markings on it anywhere that I can find. If it is a Prentiss then the PVC may be under the swivel jaw, but that entire thing is seized in place. The guy actually has the thing parked in an antique store in the middle of "Old Town" near me. I threaded the jaws wide open, this has removable jaws but they've been on there so long you can BARELY make out the screws on the slide jaw and you cannot make them out at all on the swivel jaw. There are no visible cracks, but it has a LOT of old paint on it, and thick. The screw was in amazing condition all things considered, it turned with "relative" ease for such a large vise. The slide jaw has been beaten on, there is a small chunk taken out behind the jaw - it is pretty small though. The slide itself looks like the very tail end got beat on a little but not much, there are no visible cracks I could see, but the underside was caked with decades of crud (see the pics).

I'm confused by the size compared to the Prentiss specs posted in that ad. It has 6" jaws (which would indicate a #22) but it opens 11" wide (which would indicate a #23). Maybe I just measured the jaw opening incorrectly. I know that it did not weigh 270 lbs - what a #23 would weigh.

Here's my deal, I'm not a collector of these but would like the experience of refurbing one. I'm afraid that I'll buy it and find out it's not what I expected, there is no "PVC" marking on it, there's a hidden crack, or something else making it worthless. I'm going to talk to the guy about it, I already probably told him more than I should have if I were going to try and make a deal.

If I don't get it and anyone else is interested, I'd be glad to do what I can to get this thing to a good home. :)

PS - more pics in the next post, I couldn't fit them all in this one.
 

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bareass172

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The rest of the pics... :drool:
 

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drivesitfar

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i'll give you what I know and maybe others will chime in or you can make the call. it's really odd that there is not any casting with the Prentiss name on it because that is one of the cool things about their vises. I think the crack you are talking about is about an inch or so behind the swivel pin and on top? that is usually cracked off some from either hitting or some previous owner thinking that was the way to pry up the swivel jaw. it does look like the swivel pin has been beat pretty good.

the flat head screws you found that are in under the swivel jaw where pipe jaws are sometimes found are not made to come out and have nothing to do with the swivel jaw that I know of. pulling the pin out removes it so it can swivel, but since the pin looks like it's been bashed in that might be hard to get out or might have cracked something inside.

if it was me and he was firm at $150 I would probably walk because I already own several 6 inch vises. if it had the Prentiss name in the casting I would probably buy it. there is always a risk buying any old vise of being some issues found while cleaning them up so your call as to the condition.

cleaned up even without the Prentiss name on it might bring $200-$300 or more to the right guy because those 100 plus pound old US vises with swivel jaws are a find.


now $150 for a working 6 inch vise to put on your bench isn't a bad deal because after only a couple hours of cleaning that one might be ready to go if you can un seize the swivel. it would be a better deal at $100 or less and maybe the store owner doesn't want to move it again. note that the swivel base isn't working and that the swivel pin is not supposed to be hit with a hammer and you might get him to think your direction. Just my 2 cents and hope it helps you.
 

WhoWhatNow

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I think that is a decent price for a 6" vise. The fact that you can open the vise that far tells me that the slide hasn't been beaten on too much. They usually start to mushroom out and jamb after a while. The mounting ears look to be in good shape as does the handle.
I think it is always a risk buying a swivel jaw that you can't see move because you don't know how stuck it really is. Given the overall condition of the vise I think you would be able to get it moving.
If you can talk him down based on the pin etc. I would jump on it. Even at 150 if you needed a big vise I think you would be Ok.
 

EOC_Jason

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Prentiss did make "Generic" vises for various hardware stores. They looked mostly the same except for a few key differences. First, there was usually no manufacturer marking, *sometimes* just PVC in small letters. Second, they didn't have the bosses on the front (check pictures for explanation). And third, they usually did not have removable jaws (i.e. they were cast-in like old Reed's).

In that thread you linked, you can see the boss like I highlighted in the picture on his whereas yours is missing.

Oh, there were also like 5.25" and 5.5" vises made around that time, without a model number on it you just have to measure the jaws, stick it on a scale, and see if you can find something that matches up or just not worry about it. ;)

It does look like it's in rough shape. The handle hole has wallowed out quite a bit. I would probably end up putting a thicker bar for the handle. The jaws look pretty wore, which honestly isn't a huge negative, I usually have copper liners on mine anyhow.

The top part of back of the swivel jaw looks like it has broken off, which is not uncommon (again check pictures). Sometimes that location is where the Prentiss name is located.

Usually if there is a break / crack, it will be very noticeable on the top-back of the slide. Or it will be around the front of the slide where it goes into the dynamic (check attached picture for example on repair).

I also attached a couple before & after pics of my prentiss so you can see how a little wire-wheeling and paint can really make a difference. Sorry for the dust all on it, I just pulled it out from under the workbench and snapped a picture without wiping it off.

The slide jaw has been beaten on, there is a small chunk taken out behind the jaw - it is pretty small though.

I didn't see what you were talking about in your pictures, can you (or someone else) circle it??
 

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bareass172

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the flat head screws you found that are in under the swivel jaw where pipe jaws are sometimes found are not made to come out and have nothing to do with the swivel jaw that I know of.
I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about here, did I type something wrong to give you the wrong idea? The screws I mentioned were just the ones that hold the jaws on.


they usually did not have removable jaws (i.e. they were cast-in like old Reed's).
This one was so worn, painted and dirty I wasn't even sure about this myself. I can just BARELY make out a line between the casting and the jaw. I can see faint outline of the jaw screws on the front jaw, but no indication of screws on the swivel jaw. The swivel jaw actually looks like it -might- not be removable because it's really hard to see a defined line where it meets the vice, but I'm guessing it's just years of paint/crud filling those cracks.

The top part of back of the swivel jaw looks like it has broken off, which is not uncommon (again check pictures). Sometimes that location is where the Prentiss name is located.
I specifically looked there for the name, there is nothing. That lip you mention must be broken off too, there was definitely no lip.

Usually if there is a break / crack, it will be very noticeable on the top-back of the slide. Or it will be around the front of the slide where it goes into the dynamic (check attached picture for example on repair).
The slide looked really good, all things considered. I checked the back of it specifically for a crack and couldn't find anything, but you can definitely tell that the very back of it did get a little more abuse than the part of the slide that's typically "inside" the vise. All in all, it was still in good shape and the vice opened/closed with relative ease.

I didn't see what you were talking about in your pictures, can you (or someone else) circle it??
It's a very slight chip, if you go back and look at picture #5 in the first set of pics you can just barely make it out directly under the "3" on the tape measure. It's small, where the casting meets the jaw.

I'm actually ashamed at how poor the pictures came out, my phone usually takes pretty darn good pics.

So here's the deal, I called with the guy after I saw it (it was sitting in an antique shop so he wasn't there). It told him a good bit about the history of the vise and shared a lot of what you guys told me about it as well as what I could dig up. He didn't even know it was a swivel jaw. He also told me that it's been sitting in the back of the shop he works in for over 25 years, basically untouched. The shop he works in opened in 1909. The shop is also very close to the railroad here, so I wonder if at some point it wasn't a rail vise.

I believe it's a #22 based on weight since I could lift it, a #23 weighs 270 lbs and I know I would have strained more to pick that up. I told him that if it had the logo or other identifying marks it would be worth more and I'd pay the $150, no question. In it's state, with so many questions about it, and I don't NEED it I told him that I'd be in it for $80. I figured he'd counter with $100 and make a deal, but he said he wants to wait because there is a street fair coming up. He said if it doesn't sell then, he'll give it to me for $80.

I actually think, based on my conversation with him, that he's going to try and take it home and work the jaw loose to check for that "PVC" logo.

I agree with what you guys have said, it's not a bad price even as it sits. My thing is that I just don't need another vise right now. If I was going to collect them or even refurb and sell it I just don't want to drop $150 on it. That's why I said, if anyone else wants it, get in touch with him directly or ask me and I'll go poke around it again. I just want to see it get to a good home since it's probably almost 100 years old and, from the looks of it, it's been a hard 100 years. :lol:
 

drivesitfar

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under my Prentiss' swivel jaw there are two flat head screws that for some reason are just there. I didn't understand that you meant the screws that held the actual jaws on. to many removable jaws on this vise to keep things straight. here is a picture of what I have on mine and sorry for the confusion. you can barely make the screw heads out in my picture because I still need to start up my Electrolysis bath for my vises.

good sound thinking on the purchase. if you think he might take it home and try to get the swivel off he might do more harm than good. also once he reads a few threads here on GJ if he happens to have a computer to google he will find out that swivel vises are a wanted commodity.

if he doesn't sell it at the street fair and offers to sell it to you for $80 that would be a great buy, but check it to see he didn't break or crack anything trying to take the jaw off.

I always like looking at the swivel jaw vises especially on the bigger ones so thanks for the pictures even though it sounds like you can do better next time.

good luck
 

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bareass172

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I can just barely make out the screws in your pic, I had to look for awhile to see them. I definitely couldn't see those on this vise. If he still has it later and he hasn't damaged it, I'll gladly take it for $80. I don't think he's the kind of guy who'd ship it anywhere either.
As for the pictures, I'm tempted to go back for better ones. I was disappointed to see how blurry they were when I got home and checked them. :(

If I have any updates or if I end up with it I'll post, that's for sure. If anyone else is interested, my offer to check it out is on the table. ;)
 

EOC_Jason

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Well, glad you did stop and think about it before making an impulse buy. It is definitely a fixer-upper, and I'm still not convinced it has removable jaws. It just has too much paint and crud to really see things clearly.

As someone else said the easiest way to get the swivel pin out is to remove the slide. The hole the pin goes in goes all the way through the top so if you have a short bolt you can stick it in from inside the slide cavity. Sometimes the swivel gets stuck too, there is a lot of surface area between the two parts that can rust together.

Swivel jaws are very cool to have especially if you work on odd shaped objects.

I bought my Prentiss because I liked the lettering on the side (see the pictures I attached previously). Prentiss changed their lettering style several times but that style is the most creative (I think). It had a little more wear on it than I would have liked, but it is still extremely solid.

Here's a cool picture I like looking at every now and then... Yes that is a prentiss bulldog on the bench.
 

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bareass172

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Is it possible for it to have that pin on top and not have a swivel jaw? I know the pics are not the best, but in person I can clearly see all the joint-lines where the swivel should move. I was a little unclear on this - I get that the pin passes through the entire top, but wouldn't I have to remove the swivel base so I could drive it out from the bottom? I flipped it up (and took a picture) of the base and it was solid. Do you mean I put a short bolt inside the channel and pry it up or something? If I had it here I'm sure I could figure it out, but since I don't I'm curious... ;)

I also love that lettering, and the picture of that shop is cool. I really dig vintage stuff like that. Oh well, if I don't get this one there will be another. :)
 

EOC_Jason

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Is it possible for it to have that pin on top and not have a swivel jaw? I know the pics are not the best, but in person I can clearly see all the joint-lines where the swivel should move. I was a little unclear on this - I get that the pin passes through the entire top, but wouldn't I have to remove the swivel base so I could drive it out from the bottom? I flipped it up (and took a picture) of the base and it was solid. Do you mean I put a short bolt inside the channel and pry it up or something? If I had it here I'm sure I could figure it out, but since I don't I'm curious... ;)

No, the pin is exclusively for swivel jaws. It's there to hold the swivel part square so if you were clamping onto something on just one side of the jaws.

No, I meant a short bolt that would go in the channel that the slide fits in. Maybe you could fit a piece of plywood & a pry-bar if necessary. Some come out with a little persuasion, others I've seen people have to chew them up. I would probably try some vice-grips on the top first, you never know it might just pop out.

I did read about one guy that had to remove his base and drill a small hole in the appropriate location so he could drive it out with a long piece of metal.
 
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bareass172

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After I thought about it I figured that was the case. Thanks for confirming it. I can only imagine that it would be a lot harder prying without the benefit of some sort of impact... :eek:
 

drivesitfar

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there isn't a lot of room inside that are to get any leverage even to hit the pin up from below. I had a pin that was in great shape and maybe never removed that needed a bolt from under with a tap from a wrench to get it out.

with the head flattened on that swivel jaw pin that might be in there for the rest of it's life now.

that said $80 is still a good buy even if you can't get the swivel jaw part of the vise to work correctly.
 
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