let's see your craftsman block grinders

[JCMTools]

Hi folks,

I've completed the tear-down of the 3/4hp commercial grinder (397.19670) and come across a few things that I could some advice on.

---

Late last night I somehow decided that I should remove one of the arbor snap rings with pliers, since I didn't have a snap ring pliers. Predictably, the snap ring broke. Can I get a replacement at Home Depot, or do I need a special one?

The ugly result of late-night decision-making and the bearings, which are shot.

---

I'm using Evaporust for the first time on the parts, including the rotor. The stuff is amazing, but it has taken off the bluing on some of the parts like the spring washers. I would think that if I just put on a light coating of oil or lithium grease, they should be fine. Do I need to do anything else?

Spring washers without bluing.

Other parts that really cleaned up.

---
I noticed that it looks like the starter winding way overheated at one point, partially burning the winding. The grinder started up just fine, so can I just use it for now or is the stator toast?

Worst-looking side:

Other side, less cooked.

---

Finally, the felt washers are in good shape (Evaporust picture above), but have rust in them. Any ideas on how to clean them, or should I just make new ones?

Thanks,
John

I just back from the motor repair shop and while the winding passed a megger test, he didn't guarantee that the motor would last given the burning on the starter winding. He said that as long as the case is grounded with a GFCI, it should be safe. In fact, any motor winding can fault, so it's not like I'd be taking a monster risk.

His name is Scott at Delta Motor repair in Malden MA, and he was great. He sold me a couple of NTN 6203LLB bearings, which are non-contact sealed which looks like a very good solution between shielded and contact-sealed bearings. He pressed on the bearings for me and even gave me a replacement snap ring.

One other thing that I learned is that if I heat up the bearings in an oven to 220-230 degrees, the bearing should drop on without the need of a press. He uses a press for smaller bearings but for larger, he uses an induction furnace to heat them to 230. I'm going to try this on my other block rebuild.

 

[G20-Budo]

One other thing that I learned is that if I heat up the bearings in an oven to 220-230 degrees, the bearing should drop on without the need of a press. He uses a press for smaller bearings but for larger, he uses an induction furnace to heat them to 230. I'm going to try this on my other block rebuild.

Good info, thank you for sharing!

 

[jakemac]

His name is Scott at Delta Motor repair in Malden MA, ...................

Hmmmmmmm, I'm going to have to remember this place.

 

[JCMTools]

Does anyone have a recommendation on where I should go to get the body parts bead/something blasted? I've done the paint stripper route on the cast iron parts, but I'm not looking forward to doing the main parts.

 

[Olinrj]

Sorry for the delay in the pics. Work in out the bugs on a newer phone and had to switch browsers. Here it is, in all its orange glory.

 

[bagsanthony]

I have a 1/4 hp unit, will post pics later, and I was wondering whenever I have a grinding wheel on one side and wire wheel on the other the grinder runs very poorly and vibrates due to the weight difference on either side. Has anybody run into this, how do you correct it?

 

[jakemac]

It may not be the weight difference. Are you sure that your wire wheel is balanced ?

 

[bagsanthony]

no I'm not, whats involved in balancing a wire wheel ?

 

[Ravenbar]

Sharp work. Before I converted mine to open ends I planned on doing the same thing and using a model a center/hub cap. You can get them blank, i.e., without Ford's logo, too.

Thanks.

Forgot to mention how much I paid fot it last year and judging by the prices I'm seeing posted, I made a killing. $5.

I'm keeping an eye on our scrap pile to find something for the center. Its time for the scrap to go bye bye for the year so we'll be going through it in the near future.

 

[drivesitfar]

Bags: are you able to take both wheels off your block and all the washers? then turn it on and see if you still have the same issue? you might just need a couple rubber feet so check those first if your grinder is still vibrating. there are 4 total and a lot of them are missing or in bad shape.

if it doesn't vibrate with the wheels off you might just need a heavier wire wheel and some of the guys like the knotted wheels and I've heard that some even use 2 of those knotted wire wheels on one end of the grinder.

also if you want to keep the existing wire wheel maybe it just wasn't on tight so putting it back on correctly might fix the balance issue.

good luck

 

[pendragon1998]

Does anyone use those white friable wheels in 7" size, and if so, where do you find them? I see them commonly in 6" and 8", but 7" is an oddball size.

No responses, figured I would ask again.

 

[drivesitfar]

Pendragon: I had some new in a box when i bought a Baldor grinder that i ended up selling so i could buy a Baldor buffer and Norton was the maker. i hear they work well, but i don't see many installed on grinders around here. I seem to remember they are good for knife sharpening and the guys i know that do that sort of thing use the belt type grinders like a www.Burrking.com which are a bit spendy to say the least.

 

[Davefr]

I just back from the motor repair shop and while the winding passed a megger test, he didn't guarantee that the motor would last given the burning on the starter winding. He said that as long as the case is grounded with a GFCI, it should be safe. In fact, any motor winding can fault, so it's not like I'd be taking a monster risk.

Saturate your burnt windings with this to seal them up:

 

[pendragon1998]

Pendragon: I had some new in a box when i bought a Baldor grinder that i ended up selling so i could buy a Baldor buffer and Norton was the maker. i hear they work well, but i don't see many installed on grinders around here. I seem to remember they are good for knife sharpening and the guys i know that do that sort of thing use the belt type grinders like a www.Burrking.com which are a bit spendy to say the least.

I want one for reprofiling flea market chisels and plane irons prior to sharpening.

 

[torqueman2002]

No responses, figured I would ask again.

I have to admit, I didn't know what 'white friable' wheels were. Here's what I learned.

<<

• White A. Oxide, “J” Wheel hardness
• Friable, to expose sharp cutting edges
• Good for grinding harder metals like high speed steel turning tools
• Grinds cooler than gray wheels
• 60 grit wheels for easier tool shaping
• 100 grit for general sharpening while turning
• Can be used with the Oneway Balancing System

These Norton White Aluminum Oxide grinding wheels will grind cooler than the grey wheels that normally come with grinders The wheels are a "J" hardness, and friable, so the worn cutting particles are released from the wheel, exposing fresh ones. This action is very useful when grinding harder metals like high speed steels used in turning tools. White aluminum oxide wheels will make your grinder more "user friendly" and will put a sharper edge on your turning tools.

We offer 60 grit wheels for easier shaping of tools and 100 grit for general sharpening while turning. All the wheels have a 1" bore and are bushed to fit the grinder arbor sizes listed below. These wheels can be used with the Oneway Balancing System.

The 6" White Wheels are bushed to fit 3/4", 5/8" and 1/2" arbors
The 8" White Wheels are bushed to fit 3/4" and 5/8" arbors.>>
http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=sharp-nao

Yet no 7"

I followed a link I saved and posted in the thread in my sig line, which lead me to a list of suppliers. It's another resource, sorry I came up with zilch on my 1st stab.
Grinding Wheels & Abrasive Belts suppliers
http://www.mmsonline.com/suppliers/product/5030

 

[torqueman2002]

Saturate your burnt windings with this to seal them up:

Good tip.

I'm keeping this link.

$9.35
http://www.amazon.com/CRC-Urethane-Viscous-Coating-Temperature/dp/B00BXSMNWG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414074503&sr=8-1&keywords=CRC+red+urethane+seal+coat

 

[torqueman2002]

I want one for reprofiling flea market chisels and plane irons prior to sharpening.

I knew I'd find a reason for another Block grinder. Thank you.

 

[torqueman2002]

Well, it's a fine sunny fall day in SE MI.

I gotta get out in the garage/shop and prep this little fella for a trip to Alabama, for JGer - bulletpruf!

BUT, wouldn't you know this 1 popped up on a local CL, just last night. $70.

 

[cagullett1]

Well, it's a fine sunny fall day in SE MI.

I gotta get out in the garage/shop and prep this little fella for a trip to Alabama, for JGer - bulletpruf!

BUT, wouldn't you know this 1 popped up on a local CL, just last night. $70.

Have someone on your list that has claimed the one in the second photo? If you don't already have plans to keep/sell, I'm interested!

 

[JCMTools]

Yet no 7"

I've had a hard time finding them as well. I think I've found a couple of sources. If you order, let me know how it goes. New wheels aren't in the budget right now, but I hope to get some soon.

Here's a link to a 7x1 60 grit:
mscdirect 7x1x1 60


Also, this vendor on ebay has a couple. Be careful though, most are surface grinding wheels, not bench wheels:
ebay 7x1x1 120

I've also been looking for leather pinhole 8" buffing wheels and the only ones I've found so far are on ebay sold by kiren:
ebay kiren listing

 

[JCMTools]

Paint Colors

A request from us consumers of block-painting ****: Can everyone post the paint specs when posting pictures of restored grinders?

Not to pick on Teter, but this is one of the worst examples of this problem. Talk about a beautiful job, and not even a paint brand to go on. Anyone happen to know what the colors are?

Whoops, I forgot to come back and update this thread when I finished my 3/4 HP from my post up top at #101.

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I haven't done anything with the eye guards yet, as I'm debating on if I should save them or replace them. Odds are even if I replace them (for what is used) I will save them in case I upgrade and sell this in the future.

 

[drivesitfar]

TM: it's not hard to see why you and Cag like that new 1/2 HP block you HAD to pick up. that is a sweet looking one and with your magic touch might be up there with big blue. it will run those nice white wheels and I think there are pink and orange wheels too if you like a lot of color. they all have different uses.

JCM: thanks for posting Teter's white and silver block because a great paint choice. maybe send him a PM to ask if he remembers what colors he used, but i'm guessing since it was a while ago that might be a tough call for him if he didn't save the cans.

ALL: anybody here have a favorite full face shield they use? all I've found are the ones that are plastic around your head to adjust and wondering if there are any available with a bit better quality. also looking for a little higher quality safety goggles or glasses that have the reader magnifying in them sort of like a bifocal. anybody have favorites and can you post a link or a store to buy them at?

 

[JCMTools]

JCM: thanks for posting Teter's white and silver block because a great paint choice. maybe send him a PM to ask if he remembers what colors he used, but i'm guessing since it was a while ago that might be a tough call for him if he didn't save the cans.

I did PM Teter, but no response so far.

If I get one, I'll post the specs.

 

[pendragon1998]

Some vintage Craftsman paint colors

I am trying to match the brown and gold colors used in the late 1950s. I ordered a can of Rustoleum professional enamel in 'sand' which I am currently waiting on s. I think it should be a fairly close match to the gold, but I won't know until I try it.

(Not mine)

(Protected paint under the data tag on my grinder)

(Rustoleum pro enamel 'sand')

Does anybody know what color brown was used, preferably in enamel?

 

[jakemac]

To duplicate the Craftsman Power Bronze, some members have used (with my comments in blue) :

Rustolium Hammered Gold #7210 Close, but the hammered texture puts it out of the running

XO-Rust Bronze #XOP-32 Nice, but too dark/deep

Krylon Satin Caramel Latte #51250 Slightly off, but the closest I've found so far

These are all spray cans.

I still keep waffling, so I haven't committed to painting yet. Just samples. I'm interested in your observations about RO's Sand. Please let us know what you think once you've tried it.


PS - If you need to replicate Craftsman's Blue from the 40's, I've found that Valspar's Classic Royal Blue #85205 comes closest to duplicating the original un-aged color that was used. It's bright, but it blends well with the unrestored, un-aged, paint.

In the picture below, only the rest has been repainted.

 

[torqueman2002]

Have someone on your list that has claimed the one in the second photo? If you don't already have plans to keep/sell, I'm interested!

PM and eMail {to seller} sent.

 

[torqueman2002]

Some vintage Craftsman paint colors

I am trying to match the brown and gold colors used in the late 1950s. I ordered a can of Rustoleum professional enamel in 'sand' which I am currently waiting on s. I think it should be a fairly close match to the gold, but I won't know until I try it.

(Rustoleum pro enamel 'sand')

Does anybody know what color brown was used, preferably in enamel?

Try a search for "Craftsman Brown Paint" on vintagemachinery's sister site (Old Wood Working Machines):
http://www.owwm.org/

 

[nine4gmc]

I think the sand will be to "flat" looking, the original gold was more metallic looking.

 

[pendragon1998]

Yeah, there was some fleck in the gold. I saw some acrylic lacquer duplicolor paint at autozone that looked closer and had the metallic fleck, but I want enamel, not lacquer.

 

[McBrownie]

Yeah, there was some fleck in the gold. I saw some acrylic lacquer duplicolor paint at autozone that looked closer and had the metallic fleck, but I want enamel, not lacquer.

I've had luck with a lacquer color coat and then top coating it with Rustoleum Crystal Clear enamel. Enamel over lacquer works, but not the other way around.

 

[McBrownie]

Finally, a Cleveland Block Grinder. After months of nothing, this 1/3hp comes up needing a home. Unfortunately, I don't need a 1/3hp. It's close to where I work, so if anyone is really interested, I could take a look.

http://cleveland.craigslist.org/tls/4728587761.html

 

[torqueman2002]

... (Not mine)

Boy, how many different styles of Block grinders did CM make?

That is a new-to-me style Band.

I like it!

Any information on HP, Model, and year of manufacture?

 

[Teter09]

Re: Paint Colors

A request from us consumers of block-painting ****: Can everyone post the paint specs when posting pictures of restored grinders?

Not to pick on Teter, but this is one of the worst examples of this problem. Talk about a beautiful job, and not even a paint brand to go on. Anyone happen to know what the colors are?

Uh huh, sure, call me out! I did respond to your email, I admittedly didn't have the email notice for PM's on...so I didn't check in yesterday!

I don't wanna share....it helps me envied!

I'll update my posts above to include colors and brands.

The 1/3 HP is Rustoleum Hammered Copper and Rustoleum Ivory all in one Paint and Primer, over top of a base coat of Rustoleum Flat White to help the Ivory show true.

The 3/4 HP is Rustoleum Hammered Light Blue with Rustoleum Iridescent Pearl All in One Paint and Primer (but over top of a base coat of Rustoleum Flat White since the Pearl doesn't cover for ****!!!!)

 

[bulletpruf]

Well, it's a fine sunny fall day in SE MI.

I gotta get out in the garage/shop and prep this little fella for a trip to Alabama, for JGer - bulletpruf!

Thanks, T-man!

Scott

 

[torqueman2002]

Thanks, T-man!

Scott

You are welcome.

 

[pendragon1998]

Boy, how many different styles of Block grinders did CM make?

That is a new-to-me style Band.

I like it!

Any information on HP, Model, and year of manufacture?

sorry, I didn't make note of it when I downloaded the picture. I was just looking for paint jobs. I would guess it's from the late 1950s. I think they had a lot of that banded pattern sheet metal. My grinder is from 1958 and it does not use that style sheet metal for the center bezel, but some of it is used to make the bracket that holds the capacitor inside the grinder. I have seen that striped pattern sheet metal used vertically and horizontally for the center bezel on other units though.

 

[Itinerant]

ALL: anybody here have a favorite full face shield they use? all I've found are the ones that are plastic around your head to adjust and wondering if there are any available with a bit better quality. also looking for a little higher quality safety goggles or glasses that have the reader magnifying in them sort of like a bifocal. anybody have favorites and can you post a link or a store to buy them at?

Hey Drives, I've got a Sellstrom 39110 faceshield that I really like. Sellstrom has a wide range of models and their 380 series has both crown and chin protection. I looked around a bit before buying and I didn't find anything other than you've described vis-à-vis the plastic construction. At under $30 and especially with the easily replaceable windows they're essentially consumables anyway.

 

[bisley45]

I think the sand will be to "flat" looking, the original gold was more metallic looking.

Nine is spot on the XO-rust is very very close I have tried just about all colors and this was the closest I have found. the motor condom is xo with clear coat the sample in the back is original.

 

[drivesitfar]

Bisley: Motor Condom??

IT: thanks for the lead and if i don't find any that have a metal frame with padding around the head i'll probably get this helmet version. i'm also leaning towards the tinted shield. any thoughts to add by you or anybody else that might have one of these or a better one?

so far the ones i found that seem like the best price are on Amazon unless somebody here knows a different company then please post a link?

 

[bisley45]

Bisley: Motor Condom??

Yep thought you guys would get a chuckle out of that but that is what it is called lol.