let's see your craftsman block grinders

[bluebolt]

Very nice grinder, but 397.21145? I have never seen that model number before. Has anyone else?

Canadian model only I bet! Doesn't come up on searspartsdirect either.

 

[drivesitfar]

AS: i just saw your block is not only a 1/2 HP commercial version that you can re wire to 220 if you choose to, but noticed the $55 price tag at the ReStore. that is an awesome grinder at an awesome price and nice find. i'll have to figure out how to mail or ship things to a few of you members up there on the island or find a good excuse to go up there every few months because i need to get a Wilton Bullet to Vintage Nut this summer for his 18th birthday present.

It sounds like you have the talent to make the rubber feet, but if we can figure out the mailing thing i'll pick some up next time i go by Lowes and try to find 4for you.

McB: maybe TM's data base will say if AS's block is unique or maybe a Canadian numbering on his model.

 

[bagged89s10]

AS: i just saw your block is not only a 1/2 HP commercial version that you can re wire to 220 if you choose to, but noticed the $55 price tag at the ReStore. that is an awesome grinder at an awesome price and nice find. i'll have to figure out how to mail or ship things to a few of you members up there on the island or find a good excuse to go up there every few months because i need to get a Wilton Bullet to Vintage Nut this summer for his 18th birthday present.



It sounds like you have the talent to make the rubber feet, but if we can figure out the mailing thing i'll pick some up next time i go by Lowes and try to find 4for you.



McB: maybe TM's data base will say if AS's block is unique or maybe a Canadian numbering on his model.

Do you gain significant grinding power by wiring them for 220v vs 110v?


~Veeps

 

[alpinewhite]

Also as said before a couple minutes on the wire wheel for the tool rest holders and bolts and a little Johnson paste wax would do wonders for the look of the awesome paint job you did. i might even go so far as to dig out a few stainless bolts and bar stock if i had any to replace them with.

Yes, thanks. I've run the fasteners through a wire wheel on my 1/3 HP block. Looks way better now. I need to snap some pics.

I need a label for a dual-voltage 3/4 HP. The one I got from Jack is for a 3/4 horse but not dual voltage. Does anyone have a pic of one I can print?

Thanks.

My 3/4 HP:

Label from Jack Olsen:

Yes! Nice find on that commercial capacitor start 1/2HP. Same one I have.



~Veeps

Since mine has a capacitor on the start winding, I guess what I need is a label for a dual-voltage, capacitor-start 3/4 HP. I'm not sure if it's "commercial". How can I find out? It takes 8" stones.

I plan to use these labels printed on a laser printer. Does anyone have any experience with these? What other options do I have if I don't go aluminum?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004QNWABE/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[drivesitfar]

Bagged: so far i haven't tried to on mine and not sure anybody has yet. i'm assuming more power and if i use my 1/2 commercial for other than stones i may re wire mine. i just know that it's possible to make the commercial/industrial ones run off 220 so waiting to hear myself if they work better and with which types of wheels.

good question and maybe MT, TM, McB or another member will rewire one of theirs. anybody done so yet and ??

 

[Ss95003]

A guy im buying a pre block off said he had an old table saw and he rewired it for 220 and said it provided more power. I assume that carries over to the grinders too but no first hand experience.

 

[alpinewhite]

Do you gain significant grinding power by wiring them for 220v vs 110v?


~Veeps

If you run on 220v, the motor would only use half the amperage as if running on 110v. Thus, there would be less voltage drop across the wires leading to the motor. Less voltage drop on the wire means the motor will get more power that it's due.

So, yes, it should be noticeable just like 110/220v compressors run so much better when rewired to 220v.

 

[mtwaterguy]

If it didn't come with the HD base it would've had mounting holes in the inner guard bells.

Can't tell for sure, but it looks like there's a place to attach the bracket. Maybe alpinewhite can verify this?

 

[bagged89s10]

If you run on 220v, the motor would only use half the amperage as if running on 110v. Thus, there would be less voltage drop across the wires leading to the motor. Less voltage drop on the wire means the motor will get more power that it's due.



So, yes, it should be noticeable just just 110/220v compressors run so much better when rewired to 220v.

Yea I figured it would be like that just like my welder and plasma. I wonder if I need that much power though. Maybe the less voltage drop is better for the motor in the long run.


~Veeps

 

[bagged89s10]

Here's a 1/4 HP flattop in NY if anyone wants one

http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/tls/4940419287.html


~Veeps

 

[bagged89s10]

And a 1/3 HP flat top in RI

http://providence.craigslist.org/tls/4953142743.html


~Veeps

 

[torqueman2002]

This place is just bad. I am in the market for a drill press and maybe a second grinder, and now I will of course settle for nothing less than something old and vintage because of all you Craftsmen hoarders!

Welcome.
Get in touch with FrankLee for leads on a CM Drill Press.

 

[torqueman2002]

Very nice grinder, but 397.21145? I have never seen that model number before. Has anyone else?

X2

It is probably a grinder specific to Sears' Canadian only brand, Simpson Sears.

 

[McBrownie]

X2

It is probably a grinder specific to Sears' Canadian only brand, Simpson Sears.

Thanks TM. This grinder is a 3/4hp Commercial, but not dual voltage. Do they not do 220 up north?

 

[Chef Juke]

Jake,

More pics below. For some reason I missed taking pics BEFORE I started the refurb. So here's the story on this grinder and then the pics.

My friend James brought over his Dad's old grinder for us to use in our home shop. It was covered in 2-3 coats of paint (a red and a metallic blue) and tons of gunk. Had a 6 inch buffer on one side and what had once been a 6 inch grinding wheel on the other, now down to a 3 inch nub. Both of the Outer Guards were M.I.A. and the left inner guard was missing the bottom.

I took apart the grinder and put the Left and Right Frame pieces as well as the outer guards in my electrolysis tank to de-rust and get as much of the paint off as I could. It did a pretty good job and only needed some paint stripper in a few crevices.

While the pieces were de-rusting, I found this thread and a few others on old craftsman grinders. Well, this of course got some ideas flowing in terms of doing a nicer job of cleaning up the grinder more than I originally planned.
The next day at our local recycling store I found what seems to be an old Craftsman grinder stand for $15. SOLD! Figured it had to be fate.

So far I've primed all of the outer pieces and ordered new bearings, switch and capacitor and will try to make this little guy as nice as I can.

In terms of the model, as I noted, the model number is 397.19511 The castings of the frame pieces are

Inner Frame Pieces
SR 3169221 6
SR 3169223 6

Right Outer Frame piece
6218706-SR5

I'm still finding it really interesting that I haven't seen one other matching grinder in all of the forums or just in general. Curious.

At any rate, here are the pics of the primed pieces ready for paint, the motor parts and the new mockup of the nameplate that I will see if my friend can laser engrave a decent reproduction of..

-Juke

Just found a reference that shows at least SOMEone else has one of these:

http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=19042

So, I know I'm not the only one.

Now I just need to find a wiring diagram that matches the components inside mine... three tab relay doesn't match the other wiring diagrams I've seen.

-Juke

 

[Chef Juke]

I will definitely post the results.

-Juke

Jake,

Here is my friend's first try at a laser-engraver reproduction of my grinder nameplate. I haven't gotten it in my hands yet (will pick up this week) but from the one pic, I think that if it ain't perfect, it's darned close.

Some notes I made and already changed for the next version:
1) I had inadvertently made the circle around the UL logo too thick. Will rectify in next try.

2) Model and design numbers painted instead of stamped. Will probably leave blank for stamping in next versions.

3) Need a few adjustments to spacing and bottom black box graphic.

Other than those minor issues, I think it looks pretty good!

Here are pics of my original and the reproduction:




-Juke

 

[bagged89s10]

Jake,



Here is my friend's first try at a laser-engraver reproduction of my grinder nameplate. I haven't gotten it in my hands yet (will pick up this week) but from the one pic, I think that if it ain't perfect, it's darned close.



Some notes I made and already changed for the next version:

1) I had inadvertently made the circle around the UL logo too thick. Will rectify in next try.



2) Model and design numbers painted instead of stamped. Will probably leave blank for stamping in next versions.



3) Need a few adjustments to spacing and bottom black box graphic.



Other than those minor issues, I think it looks pretty good!



Here are pics of my original and the reproduction:









-Juke

That's awesome! Is your friend willing to make and sell some?


~Veeps

 

[exmaxima1]

AS: i just saw your block is not only a 1/2 HP commercial version that you can re wire to 220 if you choose to, but noticed the $55 price tag at the ReStore. that is an awesome grinder at an awesome price and nice find.

Drives, that 1/2hp grinder appears to be yet another Commercial that is single voltage only.

But FWIW, it is only a 4.5 amp model (the lowest I've seen for a 1/2hp), and halving the amperage at 220volts would make no noticeable difference in power. When your machine starts drawing over 10 amps, and you have long runs of house wire or extension cords, it makes sense to convert to 220 vac.

 

[torqueman2002]

Thanks TM. This grinder is a 3/4hp Commercial, but not dual voltage. Do they not do 220 up north?

YW.

re: 220 up North.

 

[torqueman2002]

Jake,

Here is my friend's first try at a laser-engraver reproduction of my grinder nameplate. I haven't gotten it in my hands yet (will pick up this week) but from the one pic, I think that if it ain't perfect, it's darned close.

Some notes I made and already changed for the next version:
1) I had inadvertently made the circle around the UL logo too thick. Will rectify in next try.

2) Model and design numbers painted instead of stamped. Will probably leave blank for stamping in next versions.

3) Need a few adjustments to spacing and bottom black box graphic.

Other than those minor issues, I think it looks pretty good!

Here are pics of my original and the reproduction:
----
-Juke

That is impressive.

I'd be interested in having 1 or 2 made up for future projects.

 

[bagged89s10]

Stopped at lowes on my way home and only found 1 of the Hillman grommets. I needed 5. It looks pretty darn close to the original. I'll try it out when I get home.





~Veeps

 

[bagged89s10]

Stopped at lowes on my way home and only found 1 of the Hillman grommets. I needed 5. It looks pretty darn close to the original. I'll try it out when I get home.





~Veeps

Here is a comparison of the 2. I personally like the hillman on the left.




~Veeps

 

[Chef Juke]

That is impressive.

I'd be interested in having 1 or 2 made up for future projects.

Will let you know when we've figured out all the specs and make sure it really looks okay. I need to find out what is involved in the laser engraving (I know more colors are more involved than simple black&white) and what the COG would be. Also want to know if it would be easier/cheaper to do a bunch of tags on a sheet than one at a time. THEN, figure out how much interest there is on given models. If they do come out nice and it's something that Amy (the friend with the laser engraver) is interested in doing, I'd love to be able to make nice repo name tags for folks. Heck, if my refurb ends up looking nice enough, might see about making one out of brass.

;-)

-Juke

 

[Ss95003]

Orange County block heads.

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/4955896579.html

Here's a 1/2 commercial grade flat top in Chicago. On original stand $70. Have this model and have spent plenty on blocks this month or I'd probably email. I'm interested in eye shields I'd someone picks it up and apwants to throw me a bone.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwi/tls/4956348022.html

And a 1/3 commercial in Portland.
http://portland.craigslist.org/yam/tls/4956214593.html

Not sure what this one in fl is, since pics appear to taken by a two year old.
http://lakeland.craigslist.org/tls/4955162985.html

$18 flat top in Detroit. Maybe just make it an even $20.
http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/tls/4956381509.html

 

[bagged89s10]

Grinder tool sharpening attachment on eBay if someone is looking
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=371293856203


~Veeps

 

[bagged89s10]

Another one too

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=311327027199


~Veeps

 

[jrobb316]

Northern IL/chicago I frequent for CL trips as that's only an hour one way. South side and NW Indiana turns into a 2-3 hour trip one way so I tend to stay away from that. I did see that posting and was tempted though before I saw it here. There are actually 3 grinders I think down there right now.

 

[drivesitfar]

Chef: nice looking label and a brass one would look pretty sharp on a block or pre block with that brown that Fireman painted his block.

SS: i had to check the 1/3 HP commercial you mentioned because I've never seen one with that low HP be a commercial. Although the label looks like the commercial ones it doesn't say commercial on it so i doubt it is a commercial version. it is a great deal and I've actually emailed that seller maybe 6 months ago when he had it listed before because i like the stand. full price offer and no response and because a couple hours out of my way i didn't keep emailing him. if there isn't any strange sounds or even if there is the parts are worth more than he's asking for it.

Frank: good luck on finding the missing part.

EX: thanks again for the tutorial on the power. do you have a commercial block that you could rewire to 220 to let us know if it's worth the effort to change it? once i get my own shop and can have several 220 outlets i'm sure i'd change my 1/2 to 220. for now I'm saving the only 220 plug for the compressor.

 

[cagullett1]

Orange County block heads.

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/4955896579.html

Here's a 1/2 commercial grade flat top in Chicago. On original stand $70. Have this model and have spent plenty on blocks this month or I'd probably email. I'm interested in eye shields I'd someone picks it up and apwants to throw me a bone.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwi/tls/4956348022.html

And a 1/3 commercial in Portland.
http://portland.craigslist.org/yam/tls/4956214593.html

Not sure what this one in fl is, since pics appear to taken by a two year old.
http://lakeland.craigslist.org/tls/4955162985.html

$18 flat top in Detroit. Maybe just make it an even $20.
http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/tls/4956381509.html

The Detroit listing raised their price to $75. The seller must have found this thread lol

 

[alpinewhite]

I'm looking for the bracket (circled) for a grinder attachment. It's possible that someone had one attached to their grinder when they bought one.
Thanks,
FL

Time to get a 3-D printer.

 

[altersaddle]

Thanks TM. This grinder is a 3/4hp Commercial, but not dual voltage. Do they not do 220 up north?

We've got 220/230/240V up here for sure. Canadian electrical code is nearly the same as NEC, except we measure temperature in Celsius.

I'm not going to bother converting mine to run on 220.

I can check the casting numbers inside the machine to determine which US model it matches.

I also picked up some foam rubber practice hockey pucks to try to make some feet. They're much softer than a regular black puck. If that works I will write up a how-to on making them.

 

[mtwaterguy]

The Detroit listing raised their price to $75. The seller must have found this thread lol

The one in McMinnville sold last night.

 

[exmaxima1]

EX: thanks again for the tutorial on the power. do you have a commercial block that you could rewire to 220 to let us know if it's worth the effort to change it? once i get my own shop and can have several 220 outlets i'm sure i'd change my 1/2 to 220. for now I'm saving the only 220 plug for the compressor.

Yes, I have several dual voltage blocks, but I'm also an engineer and can do the math. If you're running only 15amp circuits on a long 14 gauge wire run, and want to run multiple machines at once, then maybe it would make sense to convert to 220v. But don't expect any significant difference in grinder power in any case. Bench grinders aren't typically loaded very much, compared to a table saw or wide belt sander, so I really can't see any reason for 220 home use.

 

[McBrownie]

Yes, I have several dual voltage blocks, but I'm also an engineer and can do the math. If you're running only 15amp circuits on a long 14 gauge wire run, and want to run multiple machines at once, then maybe it would make sense to convert to 220v. But don't expect any significant difference in grinder power in any case. Bench grinders aren't typically loaded very much, compared to a table saw or wide belt sander, so I really can't see any reason for 220 home use.

Ex,
Thanks for providing an engineer's input on the voltage topic. I would be much more interested in adding variable speed to block grinder rather than upping the voltage or horsepower. As far as I understand it, as a non-engineer, variable speed is not an option. Any input on that?

 

[Outlawmws]

Yes, I have several dual voltage blocks, but I'm also an engineer and can do the math. If you're running only 15amp circuits on a long 14 gauge wire run, and want to run multiple machines at once, then maybe it would make sense to convert to 220v. But don't expect any significant difference in grinder power in any case. Bench grinders aren't typically loaded very much, compared to a table saw or wide belt sander, so I really can't see any reason for 220 home use.

Exmax, I'm not sure I follow that. I've loaded grinders to stalling many times, even bigger 1 horse grinders. Rarely done that with a belt sander and the only time I've really loaded a table saw, is if the wood closes and it binds, (not good!...)

I had one big 8" Taiwan that started life 120, and I converted it to 220 and the difference was noticeable.

With a big braided wire wheel, i stalled that puppy regularly, which was why I switched to 220.

One test I use on a grinder I'm buying (with permission) is to load it with a piece of wood and see what it takes to stall it.

 

[Outlawmws]

Ex,
Thanks for providing an engineer's input on the voltage topic. I would be much more interested in adding variable speed to block grinder rather than upping the voltage or horsepower. As far as I understand it, as a non-engineer, variable speed is not an option. Any input on that?

It depends on the motor design/breed; with some and a VFD it IS an option (within reason, you do lose power), and with an AC/DC universal you should be able to also.

 

[exmaxima1]

Exmax, I'm not sure I follow that. I've loaded grinders to stalling many times, even bigger 1 horse grinders. Rarely done that with a belt sander and the only time I've really loaded a table saw, is if the wood closes and it binds, (not good!...)

I had one big 8" Taiwan that started life 120, and I converted it to 220 and the difference was noticeable.

With a big braided wire wheel, i stalled that puppy regularly, which was why I switched to 220.

One test I use on a grinder I'm buying (with permission) is to load it with a piece of wood and see what it takes to stall it.

Most saws (table, miter, radial arm) have high current motors that may benefit from running at higher voltage, yet most will be just fine on a dedicated 20amp circuit. It's a matter of voltage drop: long runs of thin wire are a bad thing, so the mission is to minimize voltage drop within reason.

And that's a crucial point. A 10% voltage drop is still very usable, with very little loss of performance. A 20amp circuit uses 12 gauge wire (vs 14 gauge on a 15amp), which equates to approx 59% lower copper losses. In a situation where the run is far from the breaker box, that alone makes a huge difference and comparable to 220 v operation.

I'm confident that a sub-5 amp block grinder operating on a modern 120vac circuit will see no performance benefit from 220vac. If you have a big grinder that draws over 10amps (like my 10" Dayton), and you run the piss out of it, then 220v is certainly a viable option.

 

[exmaxima1]

Ex,
Thanks for providing an engineer's input on the voltage topic. I would be much more interested in adding variable speed to block grinder rather than upping the voltage or horsepower. As far as I understand it, as a non-engineer, variable speed is not an option. Any input on that?

Any motor that has a start winding cannot operate on a variable speed controller. As Outlaw noted, an ac/dc motor can run variable since their speed is not synchronous to frequency, and mainly voltage-vs-load related. For example, a Dremel tool.

It occurred to me that some of the very small grinders are shaded pole design, and I'm sure you can reduce speed on them. Example: ceiling fans

 

[exmaxima1]

Exmax, I'm not sure I follow that. I've loaded grinders to stalling many times, even bigger 1 horse grinders. Rarely done that with a belt sander and the only time I've really loaded a table saw, is if the wood closes and it binds, (not good!...)
.

Just a quick note on this: cutting dense materials on a table saw is a huge load and takes lots of power. When I cut 1" Delrin sheet I am constantly balancing my feed rate to prevent stalling, and that's with a thin-kerf optimized blade. Ditto when I rip 4x stock oak. And forget maple on anything less than 2-3 hp, and you need to keep the feed at a decent pace to prevent burning.

The belt sander I was referring to is a thickness sander, typically 8-12" wide per pass. They **** a lot of power when planing wood, especially irregular knotty boards.

 

[meatsis]

So i was the one who grabbed the 1hp grinder in long island.(posted a few pages back) so glad i made the trip out there. The grinder was never used. Still brand new. Not a scratch on it. Money very well spent. Anyways i was just wondering if anyone knows whats involved with converting it to 230v. I know it might not make much of a power difference but i have a buddy who is an electrician and is happy to do the job for me. Is it just a matter of changing the plug or is that a stupid question. Thanks in advance for your help.