let's see your craftsman block grinders

[torqueman2002]

A different Block (1/2-HP rtop m-397.1949) and stand (pipe) were sold the previous day, but I did get the manual and assembly instructions for free, in an estate sale on Friday.

I'll scan the manual & assembly instructions and have them posted to http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=222&tab=3 later; but for now here is the stand assembly instructions.
page 1

page 2

And to give equal time to the beloved pedestal stand.

Update:
Here are pics. for 2 manuals I will up-load to http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=222&tab=3

0.50 HP Model 397.19591

Link to ^^ PDF file >> http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=9516


0.50 HP Model 397.1949

Link to ^^ PDF file >> http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=9517

 

[drivesitfar]

ALL: pipe for the craftsman original stands is 2.75 inches diameter. i just measured the 3 i own and all the same. they are also 30 inches long and 1/8 inch thick walls on the standard height grinder stands. so i guess you could buy a longer piece of pipe if you wanted it higher and maybe even thicker wall too.

 

[torqueman2002]

Harley, WWN, Doc, Jake, McB, Ex and others: i bet you can spot a Craftsman original stand from 100 yards. that stand in the right of the picture looks pretty tall too so wonder what tool is on it. this catalog picture might have been posted here before, but while i'm posting a picture doesn't hurt does it to refresh our memories?

Thanks Drives,

Here's a link to a VM.org CM Power Tool Benches and Pedestal Stands pdf file.
http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=4362

Based on your picture and the above pdf file, I'm thinking the stand may be to a 2-wheel band saw.

 

[Outlawmws]

ALL: pipe for the craftsman original stands is 2.75 inches diameter. i just measured the 3 i own and all the same. they are also 30 inches long and 1/8 inch thick walls on the standard height grinder stands. so i guess you could buy a longer piece of pipe if you wanted it higher and maybe even thicker wall too.

Confirmed, and tubing, not pipe...

 

[JZiggy]

Picked up a 1/2hp one with stand for $40 today. A bit used and needs TLC, but runs very smooth.

 

[harleybuilder]

Picked up a 1/2hp one with stand for $40 today. A bit used and needs TLC, but runs very smooth.

[emoji106] good buy [emoji106]

 

[Waltrip88]

I picked up these two 1/2 hp blocks (one is a commercial version) for the eye guards and lamp shade for my commercial 3/4.

It looks real nice now completely decked out.

I'm going to try to clean these up and flip them.




Or make a grinder shelf like bagged and start collecting.

 

[mtwaterguy]

Here's the one and only block I've ever seen in my area.


1/2 HP Commercial


The main reason I bought it was for the cover plate. Notice the tray plug is still attached. I may use it with one of my HD bases.

 

[drivesitfar]

JZ: nice buy and looks like an original stand too.

Waltrip: i bet that 3/4 HP you own will look great when you get it restored.

Outlaw: i'm always willing to hear you share your wisdom and your humor, but the old steel guys i know call the Craftsman stand's pipe steel pipe and not tubing. they call the square steel tubing every place i have been and maybe we are not correct.

if i go in to a steel company and ask for 30 inches of 2.75 inch diameter .125 steel pipe i bet i'd get a piece of pipe or tubing that would work.

when i ask for tubing they usually say do you want 1.5, 2 or 3 inch and what thickness and they come out with square style. i'm still learning and appreciate you saying i should be saying tubing for pipe. So if tubing is the correct term then round and square might be the difference to mention?

cheers

 

[Waltrip88]

JZ: nice buy and looks like an original stand too.

Waltrip: i bet that 3/4 HP you own will look great when you get it restored.

I may repaint it, but it looks pretty good to me completed.

 

[bagged89s10]

Here's the one and only block I've ever seen in my area.





1/2 HP Commercial





The main reason I bought it was for the cover plate. Notice the tray plug is still attached. I may use it with one of my HD bases.

Nice find. The tray plug on one of mine was
still attached but came off. I'm going to jbweld it back on from underneath.

 

[Outlawmws]

JZ: nice buy and looks like an original stand too.

Waltrip: i bet that 3/4 HP you own will look great when you get it restored.

Outlaw: i'm always willing to hear you share your wisdom and your humor, but the old steel guys i know call the Craftsman stand's pipe steel pipe and not tubing. they call the square steel tubing every place i have been and maybe we are not correct.

if i go in to a steel company and ask for 30 inches of 2.75 inch diameter .125 steel pipe i bet i'd get a piece of pipe or tubing that would work.

when i ask for tubing they usually say do you want 1.5, 2 or 3 inch and what thickness and they come out with square style. i'm still learning and appreciate you saying i should be saying tubing for pipe. So if tubing is the correct term then round and square might be the difference to mention?

cheers

Drives "pipe" means water pipe, drain pipe, and the like. Tubing = "mechanical tubing" (could be round, square, or rectangular) Shelby seamless, 4130 chrome moly, and other variants.

(Water) Pipe has very poor mechanical strength characteristics (comparatively speaking), very loose tolerances, and a broad range of surface finish tolerance amongst other things...

Pipe is measure by is "Nominal" inside diameter.

Tubing is measured by its outside dimensions, then wall thickness (Pipe comes basically schedule 40 or 80...) You can get tubing from paper thin to painfully thick. It is a structural steel and pipe is not...

You might get the "right size" walking in and asking for it, but it WONT be pipe... Its the counterman interpreting you and converting to what he thinks you mean.

 

[drivesitfar]

Outlaw: thanks for the explanation, but pipe is also a term the old steel guys use for what you call tubing. i bought this 5.5 inch diameter .500 thick 4 foot long pipe from a guy that has been selling steel for 50 years and he called it pipe.

yes i know all about schedule 40 and 80 and their differences in plastic. does pipe come in 40 and 80 sch steel? what would it's use be for?

i'm just saying if i give the length, diameter and thickness and ask for steel pipe i'll get steel tubing as you call it. or maybe the steel guys just don't want to bother telling me the difference and just want a sale.

While we are on the subject when i ask for solid round stock with diameter and length what should i be asking for. i have a cut off that i'm not sure what i'm going to do with that is 7 inches in diameter for an example of "solid round stock".

thanks again for the wisdom

 

[harleybuilder]

i have a cut off that i'm not sure what i'm going to do with that is 7 inches in diameter for an example of "solid round stock".

Holy sheep **** batman, that's a chunk of steel. .....

 

[jrobb316]

Need some advise on this one. Guy is firm at $100, I tried to go lower, and he may if it sits but for now he's not. I believe this is a pre-block made by Packard. Whats nice is it has the stand, but I have a 1/2 commercial already, so i'm not in the got to have it mode. If it was clean i'd be on it, but it looks well used, but complete. Thoughts? I'll spend the 100 if its a smoking deal, but if its just an ok deal I can pass.

 

[harleybuilder]

Need some advise on this one. Guy is firm at $100, I tried to go lower, and he may if it sits but for now he's not. I believe this is a pre-block made by Packard. Whats nice is it has the stand, but I have a 1/2 commercial already, so i'm not in the got to have it mode. If it was clean i'd be on it, but it looks well used, but complete. Thoughts? I'll spend the 100 if its a smoking deal, but if its just an ok deal I can pass.

From my experience and research you could easily make most of the cost back by selling just the stand, then you either have a free grinder with a heavy base or spruce it up and make a good profit.

 

[jrobb316]

Here's the one and only block I've ever seen in my area.


1/2 HP Commercial


The main reason I bought it was for the cover plate. Notice the tray plug is still attached. I may use it with one of my HD bases.

Thats a sweet grinder, I would be happy if thats the only grinder in my shop.

 

[nine4gmc]

I wouldn't go as far as to say smoking deal but I would take $80 bucks and wave it under his nose, see if he bites. I may would go the full $100 since it has the stand, heavy tray and tool rests but the base with tool rests don't show up around here AT ALL...

 

[jrobb316]

I have 3 blocks, a 1/2 commercial, and 2 1/3 HP, NO original stands, which is what really got my attention. If the stand is worth it alone, and it might be, I'm not opposed to getting it. I offered $60 because I was in a want but don't really care mood.

 

[nine4gmc]

I picked up these two 1/2 hp blocks (one is a commercial version) for the eye guards and lamp shade for my commercial 3/4.

It looks real nice now completely decked out.

I'm going to try to clean these up and flip them.




Or make a grinder shelf like bagged and start collecting.

eh, make a shelf and get it over with

 

[Outlawmws]

Outlaw: thanks for the explanation, but pipe is also a term the old steel guys use for what you call tubing. i bought this 5.5 inch diameter .500 thick 4 foot long pipe from a guy that has been selling steel for 50 years and he called it pipe.

yes i know all about schedule 40 and 80 and their differences in plastic. does pipe come in 40 and 80 sch steel? what would it's use be for?

i'm just saying if i give the length, diameter and thickness and ask for steel pipe i'll get steel tubing as you call it. or maybe the steel guys just don't want to bother telling me the difference and just want a sale.

While we are on the subject when i ask for solid round stock with diameter and length what should i be asking for. i have a cut off that i'm not sure what i'm going to do with that is 7 inches in diameter for an example of "solid round stock".

thanks again for the wisdom

Drives do what you want. The term is just wrong. And I don't give a **** what some 80 year old codger you dealt with that's "been doing this for 50 years" does or says. Those pics show you were dealing with a scrap yard and they don't give a **** what it's called or how you order it. They sell by the lb.; not by what it is. I've been dealing with those guys as well for decades.

I have been designing with these materials from actual catalogs from the manufactures of pipe and tubing for near as long, and building things from it too. Things like race cars where it MATTERS what the materials are. I still have 3 or 4 of the catalogs on my shelf. What I told you is verifiable fact.

Google a real steel companies catalog and look if up; you don't have to believe me. But DON"T tell me "some old guy told me so!" because I can assure you, he's wrong.

And on the Sch 40 and 80, yes, it applies to both plastic and water pipe. But please, don't take my word for it, look it up!

 

[drivesitfar]

Outlaw: i know more than just one 80 or 90 year old steel factory owner and getting to know less because most are retiring. i also have yet to step my foot in a SCRAP YARD, but i'm going to some day because i don't always need a brand new shiny piece of steel to finish something.

not trying to start an argument with you, but you seem to like to think so sometimes. just asking for information like i always do so i can learn which i continue to do daily.

probably only asked so i could pass on the right terms to the guys that don't know the difference between some of the materials and things.

 

[exmaxima1]

ALL: pipe for the craftsman original stands is 2.75 inches diameter. i just measured the 3 i own and all the same. they are also 30 inches long and 1/8 inch thick walls on the standard height grinder stands. so i guess you could buy a longer piece of pipe if you wanted it higher and maybe even thicker wall too.

Like Outlaw said, it's TUBING, and you just specify OD and wall thickness. I buy most of my tubing for work from this place:

http://midwestmetalwarehouse.com/ca...25-3/2-3-4-od-x-120w-1026-dom-steel-tube.html

 

[drivesitfar]

EX: i never said he wasn't correct did I? i also have 30 and 40 year old steel guys help me and just mention the old guys because they've been at it longer.

so when i ask for tubing i get square so do you say round or square or just tubing?

anyway i know what i'm getting most of the time, but i'm still learning and just starting to learn to weld this year.

i guess you could call me a SCRAPPER because i'm a sucker for buying leftovers or closing steel company stock and just setting it in a pile.

Harley: that solid stock piece i really have a problem lifting one end of it, but i do have a plan for it if i live long enough. When my wife and i can move out of the city i'll have it holding up a big vise outside my shop.

 

[harleybuilder]

Harley: that solid stock piece i really have a problem lifting one end of it, but i do have a plan for it if i live long enough. When my wife and i can move out of the city i'll have it holding up a big vise outside my shop.

Stick it to a thick piece of plate and it should hold any vise you put on it. ...

 

[drivesitfar]

Harley: at the risk of looking like a scrapper here's the base for that big round stock. it's 4 inches thick and 22 inches in diameter. I have two of them, but i don't have 3 phase power for a welder so that will be the challenge besides the fact that both the round stock and steel plate together weigh about 1,000 pounds.

i also have a piece of steel plate that is 2 inches thick and about 24 inches square that might work.

 

[harleybuilder]

Harley: at the risk of looking like a scrapper here's the base for that big round stock. it's 4 inches thick and 22 inches in diameter. I have two of them, but i don't have 3 phase power for a welder so that will be the challenge besides the fact that both the round stock and steel plate together weigh about 1,000 pounds.

i also have a piece of steel plate that is 2 inches thick and about 24 inches square that might work.

Those should work great, but don't plan on moving them often. ...lol. ...

 

[drivesitfar]

Harley:

 

[Bobioz1]

Outlaw, thanks for the great explanation of tubing vs. pipe. I don't think those were pics from a scrap yard, but that made me laugh.

 

[McBrownie]

Need some advise on this one. Guy is firm at $100, I tried to go lower, and he may if it sits but for now he's not. I believe this is a pre-block made by Packard. Whats nice is it has the stand, but I have a 1/2 commercial already, so i'm not in the got to have it mode. If it was clean i'd be on it, but it looks well used, but complete. Thoughts? I'll spend the 100 if its a smoking deal, but if its just an ok deal I can pass.

Oh boy, this one is right on the edge for me and I think for you too. Here is how I would rationalize it. The grinder, a 1959 with the heavy duty tool rests, I would feel is a good deal at $40. The stand, good deal at $20. The original lamp with the shade? Try to find one and then try to find one for under $50. So, I think $100 is ok, not a screaming deal, but a fair price. Assuming it runs well and you want it. By the way, I haven't seen anything that interesting within an 8 hour drive for me in.... well, ever.

 

[Waltrip88]

Need some advise on this one. Guy is firm at $100, I tried to go lower, and he may if it sits but for now he's not. I believe this is a pre-block made by Packard. Whats nice is it has the stand, but I have a 1/2 commercial already, so i'm not in the got to have it mode. If it was clean i'd be on it, but it looks well used, but complete. Thoughts? I'll spend the 100 if its a smoking deal, but if its just an ok deal I can pass.

An identical one sold on ebay for $310 last week.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131550879071?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

[jrobb316]

Its already in my garage Runs very good and is very heavy, i'm pretty impressed. And I got a whole box of other goodies, wheels, dressers, etc. I will play with it tomorrow and post up some pics. And yes it was 15 mins away so I swiped it. Someone from 4 hours away, anyone, anyone? Was interested but they were going on a trip and couldn't get it.

 

[jrobb316]

My question is, the grinder is separate from the tool rests, which is separate from the stand? The stand only has 2 holes in it, not 4, so I don't know if this is a whole matched set, or if the stand is a general stand, and can be used on another grinder.

 

[jrobb316]

An identical one sold on ebay for $310 last week.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131550879071?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

That one is way nicer than this, but that looks to have been cleaned up at some point. Also, that is a 397 model, mine is a 115. Don't know if it matters, I believe the 115 is Packard, and 397 is Allegretti and co.

 

[JZiggy]

I have picked up 3 block grinders recently, all with factory stands, and the top part where the grinder mounts only has 2 mounting holes.

 

[drivesitfar]

JR: i couldn't tell you if the stand was around when your Pre block grinder was made, but i can tell you all 4 original craftsman stands i have like yours only have 2 holes.

just for the parts you got your money's worth and it will spiff up nicely if you want to keep it.

 

[jakemac]

IIRC, those stands were available from the 50's into the 70's. The color may have changed over the years, but the castings stayed the same. So, the stand would be original from the pre-blocks up to the flat top blocks.

 

[jrobb316]

Ok thanks guys. This block still has the rubber insulators Which I see you would need with the stand.

 

[bagged89s10]

Need some advise on this one. Guy is firm at $100, I tried to go lower, and he may if it sits but for now he's not. I believe this is a pre-block made by Packard. Whats nice is it has the stand, but I have a 1/2 commercial already, so i'm not in the got to have it mode. If it was clean i'd be on it, but it looks well used, but complete. Thoughts? I'll spend the 100 if its a smoking deal, but if its just an ok deal I can pass.

$100 is a fair price if it runs.

 

[clippedwings]

Latest auction find. 3/4 hp with stand $55. Runs good. 4 min 25 sec run down time.