let's see your craftsman block grinders

[mbsinmich]

Who-wee that's purdy!

I restored a nice 1/3hp flat top. Rustoleum graphite wheel paint for housing and satin nickel for the band.

Parts out for a tan

When putting back together I use the 0.010" shim alignment method -- works every time!

Switch was fubar so I used a Bunn switch as recommended by Dr. Block. It works and looks good.

 

[Outlawmws]

Who-wee that's purdy!

Nice job!

 

[torqueman2002]

JZiggy - saweeeet!

Nice color choice.

 

[Ravenbar]

Currently trying to get this one running.

Acting like it needs a Cap(just hums unless given a boost), but I've replaced that and didn't solve the problem. I'm thinking it's the motor start relay but that parts not available and I don't know enough about them to spec. a replacement.

This Relay:

 

[Bobioz1]

It appears the red motor wire is not connected.

 

[torqueman2002]

Currently trying to get this one running.

Acting like it needs a Cap(just hums unless given a boost), but I've replaced that and didn't solve the problem. I'm thinking it's the motor start relay but that parts not available and I don't know enough about them to spec. a replacement.



This Relay:

I can't see what model number the 1/2-HP round top is.

Maybe you can find a match in these schematics.
http://s786.photobucket.com/user/torqueman2002/slideshow/CM 009 Wiring Schematics

The wire and terminal in the circle look out of place. That relay does not have a terminal at that location.

Also, there is an empty terminal on the relay (it may be where the red wire was originally connected).

I hesitate to be more specific until I see more details. And I would not recommend just connecting wires without more information, as damage can be done.

I also noticed there appears to be a white wire going from the right terminal to the left terminal. I doubt that is correct.

If you post more pictures, we may be able to be more helpful.

 

[Bobioz1]

This is a 397 19671 3/4 hp. If you can find the pin numbers on your start relay it should work.

 

[Bdgjr215]

Just picked this up at the flea this morning. Says its 1 hp. Everything works and
Sounds smooth.I put my phone stopwatch on when I turned her off, 4mins.29 secs. Till it came to a stop.Looks like the original wheels and barely used.Guy wanted 80.00 ,I talked him down to 60.00.I already have a 1/2 hp on an original
Stand so i might keep this one clean it up and sell the other one.

 

[Davefr]

Here's a NOS round top CM Commerical:

 

[torqueman2002]

This is a 397 19671 3/4 hp. If you can find the pin numbers on your start relay it should work.

Bobio - I think your Block uses a 4CR style relay.

The OP's Block m-397.????? uses a 2CR, like the one pictured below.

Note: 2CR style relays do not have a terminal #1.

I believe I may have a rtop Block like the OPs. I can check the wiring and make a diagram when he posts the model number.

 

[torqueman2002]

Here's a NOS round top CM Commerical:

Very nice and I would bet a rare find in your part of the states.

 

[Ravenbar]

It appears the red motor wire is not connected.

Red wires go to the capacitor, picture was taken during disassembly

I can't see what model number the 1/2-HP round top is.

Maybe you can find a match in these schematics.
http://s786.photobucket.com/user/torqueman2002/slideshow/CM 009 Wiring Schematics

The wire and terminal in the circle look out of place. That relay does not have a terminal at that location.

Also, there is an empty terminal on the relay (it may be where the red wire was originally connected).

I hesitate to be more specific until I see more details. And I would not recommend just connecting wires without more information, as damage can be done.

I also noticed there appears to be a white wire going from the right terminal to the left terminal. I doubt that is correct.

If you post more pictures, we may be able to be more helpful.

Model is 397.19590 . I have the schematic:

Currently wired for 115v. Photo was taken during diasassembly. The "white" wire is a jumper used to 115v operation, it is disconnected for 230v operation.

This is a 397 19671 3/4 hp. If you can find the pin numbers on your start relay it should work.

Bobio - I think that model Block uses a 4CR style relay and the OP's Block m-397.????? uses a 2CR, like the one pictured below.

Note: 2CR style relays do not have a terminal #1.

I believe I may have a rtop Block like the OPs. I can check the wiring and make a diagram when he posts the model number.

Model is 397.19590. I have the wiring schematic from inside already. I've repeatedly checked the wiring against the diagram and both match.

 

[WhoWhatNow]

This may not help but on the off chance that it does:

 

[Bobioz1]

Torqueman, thanks for the info. Raven, I see in your other thread your grinder didn't work before you started on it. I thought you needed the correct wiring info.

 

[Bobioz1]

Who what now, your cap start grinder has no cap?????

 

[Ravenbar]

Who what now, your cap start grinder has no cap?????

Cap was removed during disassembly, a new one installed during reassembly. Old one was bloated/corroded.

Original wiring before I took it apart

 

[Bobioz1]

I was posting to WhoWhatNow about the missing cap on his grinder in post #8937.

 

[WhoWhatNow]

Who what now, your cap start grinder has no cap?????

Were the commercial grinders cap start?


Edit: never mind it says cap start right there. Not sure about the cap, but the grinder works perfectly.

 

[Bobioz1]

Yes, and it says so right on your label.

 

[WhoWhatNow]

Yes, and it says so right on your label.

I was editing my post as you were relying.

The grinder works perfectly.

 

[torqueman2002]

Ravenbar

OK, here is how the 1/2-HP m-397.19590 Block I have is wired.

I know there's been some related posts, but I'll address those later.

This is the diagram from the bottom cover, number (4957374). Is that the same number on your diagram?

Note the relay appears to be different than your relay.

4CR-21-705

My crappy diagram.

Can you post a bigger and sharper pic of the bottom label?

Did I understand that your Block does not have a cap? - I just re-read the posts and I see you did replace the cap. What MFD values are the original and replacement?

If you need one, try Graiger, etc ... For a start-cap, the MFD value is not critical - as long as it is within +10%.

Do you have pics before, during, and after rebuild?

I'm trying to help, but it appears that although the model numbers are a match, the relays used on our 2 Blocks are different, at a minimum.

 

[Bobioz1]

Raven has a new cap for his grinder and his wiring looks correct. WhoWhatNow has the cap start grinder without a cap.

 

[torqueman2002]

Raven has a new cap for his grinder and his wiring looks correct. WhoWhatNow has the cap start grinder without a cap.

Yea, I finally sorted that out.

Thanks.

 

[WWShop]

Looking for some opinions on the 1/4 hp 2.5 amp 397.19400. I have two 1/2 hp but there is this 1/4 in my area for $50. The seller initially had it for sale for $150, which i knew wouldn't sell at that high price. Anyway, just curious how well it performs since the amps are pretty low.

 

[torqueman2002]

Looking for some opinions on the 1/4 hp 2.5 amp 397.19400. I have two 1/2 hp but there is this 1/4 in my area for $50. The seller initially had it for sale for $150, which i knew wouldn't sell at that high price. Anyway, just curious how well it performs since the amps are pretty low.

I agree, $150 is a dream for a 1/4-HP Block, maybe a NIB, but not for me.

A little more on what I feel is a good guide for price.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5742841&postcount=88

To answer your question about performance, it depends on what you will use it for.

1/4-HP Block will be OK for light duty use, cleaning of threads and the such. Polishing will require much more power - 3/4-HP ...

As stout as the Blocks are, the 1/4-HP won't perform nearly like the 1/2-HP Blocks.

I hope that helps.

 

[perchancetodream]

Hello Blockheads! Just picked up a 1/2 HP 397.19440 with what looks like original stones. They're in questionable condition, and probably should be replaced on general principle. I've got them dismounted but the flanges are stuck to the stones. Is there a particular way to get them off, or do I just tap a knife blade between the flange and label until it comes loose?

 

[bubinga]

Hello Blockheads! Just picked up a 1/2 HP 397.19440 with what looks like original stones. They're in questionable condition, and probably should be replaced on general principle. I've got them dismounted but the flanges are stuck to the stones. Is there a particular way to get them off, or do I just tap a knife blade between the flange and label until it comes loose?

That's all, Or a sharp low angle ground wood chisel.

 

[torqueman2002]

Yes, just tap them loose, clean off the paper label from the flanges and toss the stones.

You're right, it's not worth the risk using questionable grinding stones. Even if they pass the ring test, stones that have been stored in a wet or damp location can fly apart and cause damage and personal injury.

 

[perchancetodream]

Thanks! I got the flanges off.

Know thyself indeed. Acknowledging my noobiness, I studied the grinder safety videos on Youtube right off. Heard the ring test. Also noticed the thumbnails for grinder videos with "gory" in the title. Which was enough. I haven't the stomach to actually view them.

These old stones ring, but I don't know anything about their long history. Not good to see aluminum on the sides, that's for sure. They'll be repurposed for some stationary task or tossed.

Debating the replacement - 2 stones or 1 stone / 1 wire.

 

[bubinga]

Yeah, **** it up, and throw them out.
Your like me, I don't want to watch those "gory" in the title videos,
wire wheel is handy, that's why you need 2, 3 4 or even 5 or 6 grinders,
and maybe a buffer too.

 

[McBrownie]

Thanks! I got the flanges off.

Know thyself indeed. Acknowledging my noobiness, I studied the grinder safety videos on Youtube right off. Heard the ring test. Also noticed the thumbnails for grinder videos with "gory" in the title. Which was enough. I haven't the stomach to actually view them.

These old stones ring, but I don't know anything about their long history. Not good to see aluminum on the sides, that's for sure. They'll be repurposed for some stationary task or tossed.

Debating the replacement - 2 stones or 1 stone / 1 wire.

PerChance,

Welcome to the forum. Throw out those old stones. You definitely need a wire wheel. And, belts are the best.

View media item 52528

 

[perchancetodream]

Wow.

 

[joe.striper]

While not technically a Cfman Block, still cool. Anyone have any info on this guy? Ive never seen one like it before..

Illuminated shields. Only 1/3 hp but the grinder is HUGE. Plastic water tray that is definitely original....

 

[Cruzan80]

They show up occasionally. IIRC, they were a post-war item, before the round-tops came out. Found it on pg 23 of the 1948 catalog, illustrated with a C Underline logo.

Did some more digging, and they are between 48-53, before the round blocks came into being.

 

[vertguy]

Look at what followed me home from the flea market this morning. I almost walked away and decided it was worth a price check... and when the seller mentioned $35, I had no choice and could not get my money out fast enough. Especially after countering with $30 that he gladly accepted



He even guaranteed it worked and gave his number in case I had issues.



Thought an updated block stand family photo was in order (have another 1/3 under the bench as well). Not sure if this one is staying, but a quick power up confirmed it ran smooth as butter.

 

[WWShop]

Vert, that family photo is a beautiful thing.

 

[bluebolt]

vertguy you ****!

I picked this commercial block up for $5, it spins ok without any drag but when you hit the switch to on it runs extremely slow and is noisy. Don't know if it's a 1/2 HP or 3/4 HP block with the missing label. The base plate is not correct and has no holes for the hold down bolts or grommet cushions.

 

[WWShop]

vertguy you ****!

I picked this commercial block up for $5, it spins ok without any drag but when you hit the switch to on it runs extremely slow and is noisy. Don't know if it's a 1/2 HP or 3/4 HP block with the missing label. The base plate is not correct and has no holes for the hold down bolts or grommet cushions.

I believe that is a 1/2 hp
Your issues could be the start capacitor and bearings. I am far from an expert though, and someone will definitely know and chime in.

 

[exmaxima1]

vertguy you ****!

I picked this commercial block up for $5, it spins ok without any drag but when you hit the switch to on it runs extremely slow and is noisy. Don't know if it's a 1/2 HP or 3/4 HP block with the missing label. The base plate is not correct and has no holes for the hold down bolts or grommet cushions.

Part it out. I have dibs on the end covers.....

 

[drivesitfar]

JOE: the PRE BLOCK you found may only say 1/3 HP on it's label, but it is every bit as powerful as a 1/2 HP grinder you can buy today except for maybe a Baldor because the makers rate them differently. the date stamp on the bottom of your badge looks like 11/45 so can you double check that because i thought they didn't make them to the 50's or 1948 like was just mentioned.

yes keep the ORIGINAL red plastic water tray because at least it won't rust.

BB: yep i'd say you overpaid by about $5 for that block so if it will fit in the package coming my way soon you can just try to fit it in and i'll paypal you a $5 refund.

ALL: the old stones have been mentioned more than once here for safety, but i think we need to mention it again that just testing a grinder turning it on could be dangerous so wear a mask and step to the side or behind the grinder when you turn on one with old stones if just testing the motor. several guys and maybe a few gals have died from getting hit with exploding stones.

cheers and stay safe