Let's see your Herbrand!

[bonneyman]

Dang, BMW - that is a great set!

 

[d42jeep]

Beautiful set. All I’ve ever found is a couple of individual wrenches, too. Here is a complete Duro set for comparison.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Beemer,

I just looked at the 1942 and 1948 catalogs.

They made a 10-piece No. 99 set (9 wrenches from 13/64 to 1/2 in the configuration I described above, and pliers), and a combo Set No. 98 with pliers and No. 310 screwdriver. Both came in branded flannel-lined leatherette pouches. Based on yours being unbranded oilcloth, with an extra pocket for the screwdriver, my hunch is they took the No. 310 screwdriver out of their No. 98 set, sourced the oilcloth pouches with 11 pockets from someone else, cheaply, stuck that No. 310 screwdriver with their nine (9) GMTK-spec No. 99 set wrenches, and voi-friggin'-la, they had a late war Ordnance Dept GMTK spec 41-W-900 ignition set!

They don't show the No. 310 screwdriver out of the pouch, but they do in the screwdriver section. I excerpted it inside the figure for you. Protecto Grip brand, looking solid out, but looking more translucent in the pocket, described as Pyralin, which means it's made from pyroxalin, which means they will be as hard to find as Duro Chrome ignition screwdrivers and Long C flex spinners, because most of them have already deteriorated into crumbles.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Here are the four (4) measly Herbrand ignition wrenches I have managed to scrounge up one at a time in eight years of picking! And not a single one of them matching!

The No. 89 at the top will be the most instructive to you, Beemer. It is wartime. It's not as dark as yours, which may be black oxide, but it's a dark natural steel finish. The plain block font on the branding is also helpful. But the key is the AISI "1340" compositional marking (for Carbon-Manganese, not an restricted alloy) that they forged-in on the flip side. See Pic 3.

The chromed script logo No. 88 wrench, next one down, is definitely prewar. Probably 1930's.

The chromed sunken paneled VAN-CHROME No. 88 is probably prewar. And I think the No. 85 at the bottom, also chromed, is probably immediate postwar. But I'm less sure on those.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here is a billings branded set made by herbrand

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

This is the only Herbrand too I have found


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[Oldsoul]

This is a multi grip. They feel a little cheap.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Do they pop a groove when you clamp on them?

 

[Oldsoul]

No they hold. There unusually thin.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

A question about what Alloy Artifacts describes as the “CFT-Oval”, found stamped on some Herbrand tools:
Do we know what C-F-T stands for? Is it Creighton Fuller Thompson (1889-1964)? Does that suggest a particular span of manufacturing years? I googled up a picture of his father, Charles Thompson (1839-1922).

Kudos are in order here, LS!

Since the last time you checked Alloy Artifacts on this question, they must have updated their Herbrand page - which now makes the same familial connection you have above. Whether they did so independently, or they picked it up from you right here on GJ without giving you credit, I don't know.

But I'm giving you first credit anyway.

Although I have to admit to missing your comments initially and not tracking this until a few minutes ago, and to being flummoxed by these slip-joints while standing there inspecting this monograph style logo at the flea market this morning...

I was thinking some strange version of a Crescent logo, reminiscent of this...



But Crescent never used the "and Forge" in their name (thinking Crescent Tool and Forge, for example) like so many others, just Crescent Tool Company, and this monograph clearly had a little "F" in it with the "C" and the "T". On top of that, the grips do not have the early Crescent checkerdot pattern. The "<=FORGED STEEL=>" insets in the handles reminded me of Kraeuter in practice, but they didn't use a 'asymmetric diamond' grip, and there was no "K" in the monograph.

So I started running down other possibilities (i.e., some other C-name Tool and Forge, but also TFC, TCF, FTC, etc). My search took me back to CFT, but, as it turns out, and as you already know, not to any Cxxxxxx Tool and Forge, but to Craig Fuller Thompson of Herbrand, vis-a-vis your incisive observation.

Here are a few more photos...

And here is some documentation for your discovery...

 

[outofbounds]

Found this Herbrand square bit driver yesterday. First red-handled driver from Herbrand I've seen. Normally, I see the greenish-blue handles about.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Pawn Shop find for Today Herbrand 5/8 x 11/16


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[outofbounds]

Was fortunate to get a sneak preview on a coming estate sale this evening. Not a ton of stuff, but a honey hole nonetheless on a variety of items I carried home for great value, to include this Herbrand Van-Chrome S-10 1/2 drive ratchet in overall very good shape. Works in both directions. Not an old Herbranf guy, but was surprised to learn the selector on this one works up and down, rather than side to side....

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Wartime. That's the AISI number for carbon-manganese. Herbrand liked to show off their compliance with alloy restrictions.

 

[outofbounds]

Wartime. That's the AISI number for carbon-manganese. Herbrand liked to show off their compliance with alloy restrictions.

Are you referring to the 1340, Lugz?

 

[Oldtuleguy]

SAE-AISI 1340 steel is a resulfurized carbon steel formulated for primary forming into wrought products. 1340 is the designation in both the SAE and AISI systems for this material. G13400 is the UNS number.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Yes. You'll also see AISI 86xx and 87xx on them and other Herbrand tools. Those are the "New Emergency" triple alloy formulas invented by a consortium of gov (WPB), academia, and industry in 1941. Jeeps were important. Air superiority critical. Multiple fronts essential. But those formulas won the war and changed tool compositions for the better forever.
Edit: that was in reply to you, Oob.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

SAE-AISI 1340 steel is a resulfurized carbon steel formulated for primary forming into wrought products. 1340 is the designation in both the SAE and AISI systems for this material. G13400 is the UNS number.

That's true, but that is a process description true of many carbon steels, not focused on chemistry. All 13xx steels are known as "manganese steels", very high in manganese as an alloying component vs chrome or molybdenum or nickel.

 

[Provincial]

Manganese steels are tough and wear-resistant. I can see why the 1300-series was used for tools, if chrome-moly was not available.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I picked up this partial set of combination wrenches at the flea market this morning.

Early wartime marking and cadmium plating. Box ends are set at a 15* angle. I have the 1212 (3/8") and then the 1220 (5/8") through 1228 (7/8") continuous. Missing the most common sizes, unfortunately, being the 1214 (7/16"), 1216 (1/2"), and 1218 (9/16"), or it would be one of complete sets (No. 1229) that they sold in a leatherette roll-up. I'll be on the hunt a little harder now.

Herbrand called these Multi-Types.

Same guy ("GM") who owned the TRUTH CHROME MOLY round shank deep DBE's I just posted on the DBE thread. As I said over there, I thank him kindly for using the flip side of the jaws and not going crazy.

 

[leg17]

I kinda like these Herbrand 881 Rethreading tools. All SAE RH fine threads, 5/8-1~1/4.
One is a partial set with the box. 1937 catalog names it set 880½ signifying the metal box.
Appears to have been rode hard as the 1” dies are missing, there are two sets of 5/8, and some of the dies have damage. But…tools are made to be used and these with use will have a rough life.

The other is a lone wolf I found.

I think that there was an earlier configuration, with RH and LH threads, but can’t put my finger on it.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Those are cool. It's interesting the different approaches different mfgrs took to re-threaders.

 

[Provincial]

I found this 1218 9/16 combo recently.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Found this yesterday at the pawnshop a 7/16 quarter inch drive socket it has a triangle below the Herbrand. Not sure if that’s a date code or what.


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[Oldtuleguy]

that is the bonney-herbrand Utica triangle. They were all acquired by the triangle corporation in 67.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

that is the bonney-herbrand Utica triangle. They were all acquired by the triangle corporation in 67.

Thanks for the info. So I am guessing it would of been made in 67 or later then correct?


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[ssdave]

Threw in a large Herbrand full polish wrench (1234-L, 1-1/16") with a bunch of junk tools to ebay today. One of the fill a flat rate box with odd brand stuff and pass it on lots.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Yes blake. The tools of that era have a triangle stamp.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Yes blake. The tools of that era have a triangle stamp.

Great thanks for the info


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[Private Lugnutz]

Picked up this little late 40's early 50's torpedo-handled beauty at the flea market this morning.

 

[joecon]

What size drive is that I have a 1/2 inch that was my fathers.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

1/4.

 

[d42jeep]

Picked up this little late 40's early 50's torpedo-handled beauty at the flea market this morning.

I like the handle on that one much more than mine.
-Don

 

[bonneyman]

Oooh, me likey them Herbrand ratchets!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I like the handle on that one much more than mine.

Oooh, me likey them Herbrand ratchets!

Thanks, guys. I am only guessing at the age (1949, 50's) of the bullet handles. The only postwar catalogs I have seen in the public domain are 1948 and 1966, and they don't appear in either of those. And they seem to "mirror" (not getting into who came first) a design trend that can also be seen in the same timeframe with Blackhawk.

 

[joecon]

I would say that those ratchets with the art deco handles are from the late forty's or fifty's. that's when my father was building his tools. I also have a speed handle with the same type of handle.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks for the confirmation, Joe.

 

[bonneyman]

I like the handle on that one much more than mine.
-Don

Though they look a bit clunky, I have found that style of Herbrand handle to be quite comfortable during use.
When doing distributor work on my small pick-up I needed to rotate the crankshaft with a 1/2" ratchet and 19mm socket. At that time all I had was my Herbrand pear head. No pain or hand strain whatsoever.

 

[lardy1]

Another Herbrand in my drawer thanks to the generosity of one of our fellow GJ members. Many thanks, my friend. And, wouldn't you know it, Herbrand is trending on the forum.

This thing is in near mint condition. A 3/8" drive ratcheting adapter. I don't know how common this type of mechanism is. Most I've seen have some form of toggle switch. This one uses the uppermost plate (the narrower band of knurling) as a rotating switch. It was a bit puzzling at first understanding the mechanism but it actually works very well. Low tooth count of 20 tooth.











Been awhile since I've posted here. I hope all are well.

 

[outofbounds]

I saw somewhere else that Vi-Chrome is a sub-brand of Herbrand. Found this wrench today at lunch. A first for me. Looks to be a pretty nice tool.