Let's talk about diagnostic tools

[mikeselky85]

I work on on cars every day at my job. I am one of the lead techs and I do a lot of the diagnostics that come through the door, because I have more training and experience in electrical diagnostic. Was just looking to see what some of you guys use to do some diagnostics. Scan tools, testers, leads, meters etc.

 

[GTA Matt]

I have several factory and aftermarket scan tools. Labscope, high and low current amp clamps and of course multimeters, test lights, powerprobe, all kinds of leads and back probes, some 'home made' connectors from old wire harnesses, relay jumpers, etc.

 

[Karl_B]

After playing with GM's MDI, I decided to buy a Bosch VCI. It's the same hardware, different color, and different software. I even went so far as buying the combo with the laptop they provide, but unfortunately, it was a unit that didn't want to work right from the start. Bosch is supposed to have a pretty good reputation for their products and service, but I never saw it. I have finally gotten them to actually look at the unit and confirm there was a problem, but I haven't tested it since I got it back.

I will say that I was really impressed with what it can do when it would work, but there are cheaper units out there that can do the same and will work when you need them.

I've used a Determinator a few times when that VCI acted up and it was decent, but slow. I usually wind up grabbing my little $200 handheld scanner from Matco. It's fairly decent and finds the communication protocol on it's own. If I had it to over, I would've sprung the extra few bucks for the one that does ABS and SRS systems, too. That would keep me from needing the high dollar scan tool on most of the jobs I've had come through.

 

[INYER face hole]

I have several factory and aftermarket scan tools. Labscope, high and low current amp clamps and of course multimeters, test lights, powerprobe, all kinds of leads and back probes, some 'home made' connectors from old wire harnesses, relay jumpers, etc.

Power probes and connectors from old wiring harnesses

 

[mikeselky85]

It's good to get an idea of what everybody uses. I have a meter, test lights, power probe, jumper wires and I use a Pegasus at work that has the scope hook up. It's slow as dirt but scope function is good. I'm the only one in my shop that can use a scope anyway. I was thinking of getting a laptop based scope and scan tool for personal and diagnostic use eventually. Just looking for more ideas on what to get, a amp clamp is next since I have been needing one


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[Streetbu]

I use a cheap HF scan tool as my go to unit for pulling codes. I have an OLD Snap-On brick with all the adapters, and just bought a used Modis. I have used a Modis before, but I'm not 100% proficient with it yet. For a majority of the vehicles I work on, the cheap HF tool gets the job done quick and easy. I charge more if the Modis has to come out LOL

 

[MLB0611]

The best way to answer that question is with another question. What brands do you see the most? and please do not answer everything as that is not a real answer. Do you mostly see toyo, Honda GM? The best advice will come from that as every aftermarket scan tool will have brands they are strong on and weak or even almost worthless.

And for those that just use a code reader you are not doing Diagnostics you are shot gunning parts.

Answer these questions and I will give you the best advice on what to get.

 

[RRmech]

I have an old tube-powered *Tektronix O-scope, that I would use to trouble shoot PCBs.

*Found it in working condition, in a dumpster behind the Engineering Dept. of a major ACC university.

 

[mikeselky85]

I work on anything that comes through the door. We just don't see many German vehicles. So domestic and Asian. I had a solus but returned it because it wasn't what I wanted. I want to get a modis but my only issue is I don't think they make updates for it anymore, and that's a tool in familiar with.


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[GTA Matt]

Modis and solus/solus pro are essentially the same, just modis has the built in labscope and bigger screen. Snap on has pretty good coverage, but no one scan tool can cover it all. If there is one particular brand you work on more then others, it might be worth it to look into that manufacturers scan tool. 2 or 3 OE scan tools are still cheaper then a new modis. Some of the updates and licenses can be pricey, but no more then the 2 times a year snap on updates.

 

[JoeSnapOn]

And for those that just use a code reader you are not doing Diagnostics you are shot gunning parts.

Any advice on how to improve your diagnostic skills these days without factory training? I'll admit I'm mostly a part changer but I'd like to improve that. Thanks

Joe S

 

[joel63]

Check out the new Modis Ultra.

 

[mikeselky85]

I agree about the small code readers. They are good for just that. I always use data streams and special tests to do diagnostics. I'm not looking into getting another scan tool for a while, since the shop supplies the Pegasus even though it's slow. There is actually not one car brand I deal with more. It's literally a mixture of every manufacturer. I've also very rarely encountered a problem where I needed a different scan tool, but there are times the one we have doesn't cover it.


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[mikeselky85]

Joesnapon, you could see if your place of employment has training courses. I go to them all the time, I always learn atleas one thing at the classes, even though most of its repetitive to me. I mostly you around whenever I get the chance to learn more


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[theoldwizard1]

Go to YouTube. Watch some of ScannerDanner channel. The guy is a wiz with diagnostic tools, but not because of the tools. He sells a book that anyone getting into automotive electronics diagnostics and repair should buy.

One of his favorite tools is the PicoScope. Quite pricey with all of the adapters and sensor. You still need a decent code reader that can also do live data.

 

[not-required]

We only see GM, Ford, and International at work. We use a Tech 2, snap on modis, and Prolink iQ

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[wafrederick]

After playing with GM's MDI, I decided to buy a Bosch VCI. It's the same hardware, different color, and different software. I even went so far as buying the combo with the laptop they provide, but unfortunately, it was a unit that didn't want to work right from the start. Bosch is supposed to have a pretty good reputation for their products and service, but I never saw it. I have finally gotten them to actually look at the unit and confirm there was a problem, but I haven't tested it since I got it back.

I will say that I was really impressed with what it can do when it would work, but there are cheaper units out there that can do the same and will work when you need them.

I've used a Determinator a few times when that VCI acted up and it was decent, but slow. I usually wind up grabbing my little $200 handheld scanner from Matco. It's fairly decent and finds the communication protocol on it's own. If I had it to over, I would've sprung the extra few bucks for the one that does ABS and SRS systems, too. That would keep me from needing the high dollar scan tool on most of the jobs I've had come through.

Bosch,it is yours once you purchase their equipment with no tech support at all.They basically don't stand behind their equipment.Bosch can't keep reps around,they get fired by Bosch or they quit.It is a pain in the *** doing it online what I have been told.Plus I know a former Vetronix rep that was forced into retirement after Bosch bought out Vetronix in 2003.He was one of two reps that made the big money,Bosch wanted to cut his commission and pay at first saying he made too much money.

 

[mikeselky85]

I was looking at getting a pico scope kit, best one ive seen that comes complete.


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[Karl_B]

I'm definitely going to test the next scan tool I buy before I give up my cash. I would've been better off buying an older one that someone didn't want to update anymore.

 

[mikeselky85]

yeah I wasn't happy with my solus at all and the updates were gunna kill me to keep up on. I would have rather had something different

 

[MLB0611]

Any advice on how to improve your diagnostic skills these days without factory training? I'll admit I'm mostly a part changer but I'd like to improve that. Thanks

Joe S

Join iATN, free for basic members, read the forums daily, tons of great info to learn, the biggest forums to read are Techincal, theory and tips forums. Watch Scannerdanner's Youtube channel and get his ebook, Standard Motor Products has some good training on their web site hard to find but it is there and it is good.

AVI has some decent videos you can buy as well.

I would start with the free stuff and the Ebook and learn as much as you can form those and you will have a good start. Please fell free to ask any questions I would be more than happy to help.

 

[MLB0611]

yeah I wasn't happy with my solus at all and the updates were gunna kill me to keep up on. I would have rather had something different

If 2k is gonna kill you how will you pay for the scanner? Snap On has the best all around aftermarket scan tool. But If cost is an issue I would either look at Autel either the Maxidas or the new Maxiysys android tablet or get Auto Enginuity laptop needed for that but you can buy the modules as needed.

Pico is a great scope hard for a scope novice, I would get a used Vantage Pro to learn on and you can find them cheap on ebay.

HTH

 

[androy]

i use mazda ids software with vcmII. couple testers and test leads ..

 

[MLB0611]

I agree about the small code readers. They are good for just that. I always use data streams and special tests to do diagnostics. I'm not looking into getting another scan tool for a while, since the shop supplies the Pegasus even though it's slow. There is actually not one car brand I deal with more. It's literally a mixture of every manufacturer. I've also very rarely encountered a problem where I needed a different scan tool, but there are times the one we have doesn't cover it.


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If you have not found the holes, in that scan tool you are not getting really hard issues, work at a tire shop? Not a slap I have worked at a goodyear. I find tons of holes in what an aftermarket scan tool will do, tools has a function shown but doesn't work, seen it every aftermarket tool I have ever used. I have had issues with something as simple as a TPMS reset, not listed in one tool or doesn't work but works fine with another scan tool.

 

[wafrederick]

Chrysler's TPMS system,the sensors are real easy to program without a scan tool.You drive the vehicle a few feet and the sensors are programed.Found this out from the parts department at a Chrysler dealership.

 

[Tool504]

I'm an auto technician for a major rental car company. We have the factory scan tool/software for GM, Ford, Chrysler/Dodge, Toyota, and Nissan. I've had experience with the Ford IDS as I was a technician at a Ford dealer, but I've learned to utilize all of the other scan tools. All relatively easy to use I'd say, with Chrysler Wi-Tech probably being the easiest with its simplistic layout and symbols at each ECM showing dtc's, flashes, etc. I personally own a Snap On Solus Pro, but I just use it for doing side work. No need to have it at work.

 

[MLB0611]

Chrysler's TPMS system,the sensors are real easy to program without a scan tool.You drive the vehicle a few feet and the sensors are programed.Found this out from the parts department at a Chrysler dealership.

On newer CDJR vehicles if the vehicle has been driven for a while with the TPMS light on that will not work, BTDT has to be put into learn mode with a scan tool, when I worked at a shop that did lots of fleet work, I had one that came in with a flat, no ones scan tool worked to put it in learn mode and it was too new for DRB3, needed WiTech. I drove it for 20 minutes a porter drove it for 1 hour and they finally sent it to the dealer to turn out the light, after that one we had 3 more that month

 

[richfinn]

What about diagnostic tools other than scanners? Sure, data stream and bi directional testing is great but what about other cheaper useful stuff?

Along with my scanners/scopes/meters/current clamps, I have some basic stuff that I use.

1. Cheap map reading compass (testing relays/alternators etc)

2. Stethoscope (I use mine regularly)

3. mityvac with vac/pressure and gauge

4. Fuel pressure tester

5. Wiring diagrams/schematics/tech info

6. I have a test lead 25ft long that I use when "volt dropping" or as a jumper

7. Load pro test leads

8. I have a propane torch and a length of hose I use for looking for air leaks, I suppose I should look at a smoke machine???

9. 16 pin OBD breakout box, for testing data network or no comms

10. An ancient incandescent test lamp that draws approx 60mA, that I use for pull down/up tests and HT spark testing (ala scanner danner)

I don't agree you always need live data, we managed to fix cars without it for years just using flash codes a DVOM and a schematic. It just takes longer

 

[wafrederick]

On newer CDJR vehicles if the vehicle has been driven for a while with the TPMS light on that will not work, BTDT has to be put into learn mode with a scan tool, when I worked at a shop that did lots of fleet work, I had one that came in with a flat, no ones scan tool worked to put it in learn mode and it was too new for DRB3, needed WiTech. I drove it for 20 minutes a porter drove it for 1 hour and they finally sent it to the dealer to turn out the light, after that one we had 3 more that month

Had to replace one in a Jeep Liberty,driving it programed it.Ford,you can't get computer info from Ford anymore.Ford will not release it to any independent shops,Dealer gets it and their diagnostic equipment has to be used.Had a Ford Freestar in for a missfire and there was no check engine light on.It is a real pain in the *** to figure out a missfire in a Ford with no check engine light on.Did the basic checks,compression was good,spark plug looked good swapping it including the coils.Told the customer to take it to the dealer and it took them 3 days to figure it out,Ford even did not see this problem.It ended up being a bad computer,was not telling the spark plug when to fire at the right time.It is even with these gimmick E3 spark plugs in Fords,they screw up Ford's computer systems.One was an Expedition the 4wd did not work,the owner installed E3 spark plugs and they were screwing up the computer.The shop that worked on it after that installed the factory Motorcraft spark plugs and the 4wd worked.

 

[DK87]

We just got the new Snap-On Solus Ultra, that thing is nice. We also got the new Matco scan tool last semester. It's not as quick as the Snap-On but i like it. I haven't had much time with the Snap-On just a few minutes. It defiantly helps speed up the process of finding electrical problems or bad sensors. But you can never beat using a good meter and knowledge to trace down those bad wires.

 

[MLB0611]

What about diagnostic tools other than scanners? Sure, data stream and bi directional testing is great but what about other cheaper useful stuff?

Along with my scanners/scopes/meters/current clamps, I have some basic stuff that I use.

1. Cheap map reading compass (testing relays/alternators etc)

2. Stethoscope (I use mine regularly)

3. mityvac with vac/pressure and gauge

4. Fuel pressure tester

5. Wiring diagrams/schematics/tech info

6. I have a test lead 25ft long that I use when "volt dropping" or as a jumper

7. Load pro test leads

8. I have a propane torch and a length of hose I use for looking for air leaks, I suppose I should look at a smoke machine???

9. 16 pin OBD breakout box, for testing data network or no comms

10. An ancient incandescent test lamp that draws approx 60mA, that I use for pull down/up tests and HT spark testing (ala scanner danner)

I don't agree you always need live data, we managed to fix cars without it for years just using flash codes a DVOM and a schematic. It just takes longer

IT is not just about live data, it is also about bidirectional tests in the scan tool with so much controlled by the PCM or PCM or Gem modules etc. you have to be able to test to see if the car has control of said component, nothing can replace. Something I use daily.

 

[amlv20]

Being a ford dealer we have an Ids set up.but we operate kinda like an independent, so we also have a old snap on brick that barely works and a new touch screen snap on modis. that works really good, I even use it on fords when both Ids' are in use.

I've been thinking about getting a personal scanner, mainly the Ids with vcm2.but I saw the new modis ultra that is like our modis but also has a lap scope feature and component testing feature.plus the trouble shooter information.

 

[MLB0611]

Had to replace one in a Jeep Liberty,driving it programed it.Ford,you can't get computer info from Ford anymore.Ford will not release it to any independent shops,Dealer gets it and their diagnostic equipment has to be used.Had a Ford Freestar in for a missfire and there was no check engine light on.It is a real pain in the *** to figure out a missfire in a Ford with no check engine light on.Did the basic checks,compression was good,spark plug looked good swapping it including the coils.Told the customer to take it to the dealer and it took them 3 days to figure it out,Ford even did not see this problem.It ended up being a bad computer,was not telling the spark plug when to fire at the right time.It is even with these gimmick E3 spark plugs in Fords,they screw up Ford's computer systems.One was an Expedition the 4wd did not work,the owner installed E3 spark plugs and they were screwing up the computer.The shop that worked on it after that installed the factory Motorcraft spark plugs and the 4wd worked.

The info is available you can purchase it for a single car for 11 bucks short term. Same exact info a ford dealer gets, FYI it is the same info as alldata or MOD has on their sites too.

I fixed a Sprinter van for a O2 sensor code by replacing burnt out bulbs, brake and tail light.

AS for the E3 plugs any modern car can get confused with some BS aftermarket **** on it, that is why I will not install that BS.

https://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/retail/default.asp?pageid=cat_main

 

[amlv20]

Ford,you can't get computer info from Ford anymore.Ford will not release it to any independent shops,Dealer gets it and their diagnostic equipment has to be used.

This is not true.

independents around here that have Ids with Vcms,vcm2s,and vmms. At times we need to borrow their vmm connections or pvt when ours break and were to cheap to buy a new one.indys can get them with a little different level of licensing and slower updates but they are available.


Also PCMs will not always set misfire dtcs for many reasons, but having equipment like an Ids with power balance ,relative compression, and access to mode 6 data can quickly help direct a proper diag.i hate e3 plugs but I'd like to see how one affects the 4wd.

 

[GTA Matt]

I have an ids, no problems with updates, reflashes or programming. Also toyota techstream, vw vag-com and tech2. Looking into a drb and a starscan, but haven't had enough demand to justify the purchase yet. And again, its not all about data, a multimeter, test leads and powerprobe can be great in the proper hands, but when you need to see if a module driver is good, or need to see the values that the module is seeing, a good scan tool saves time, and we all know time is money.

 

[cassidy]

Go to YouTube. Watch some of ScannerDanner channel. The guy is a wiz with diagnostic tools, but not because of the tools. He sells a book that anyone getting into automotive electronics diagnostics and repair should buy.

One of his favorite tools is the PicoScope. Quite pricey with all of the adapters and sensor. You still need a decent code reader that can also do live data.

Don't forget ericthecarguy, real fixes real fast, and Robinson's automotive. I subbed to all of them. Oh and briandmobile1.

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[amlv20]

Also we tried auto ingenuity before the snap on modis, I personally think its garbage and didn't use it at all.its still buried somewhere in the scanner cabinet....

 

[amlv20]

Don't forget ericthecarguy, real fixes real fast, and Robinson's automotive. I subbed to all of them. Oh and briandmobile1.

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Yes! Diesel tech Ron and ase master tech are good to. STAY away from scottykilmer

 

[sqaurelizard]

the snap on diag stuff must 100 times better on US stuff than European. We have a launch, a carman, vag com, renault clip, lexia for the psa stuff. launch is what we grab for all the basic stuff but have trialled the the snap on equipment this year and last year as was found very lacking even in comparison to the launch, it really comes down to what you see every day

 

[MLB0611]

the snap on diag stuff must 100 times better on US stuff than European. We have a launch, a carman, vag com, renault clip, lexia for the psa stuff. launch is what we grab for all the basic stuff but have trialled the the snap on equipment this year and last year as was found very lacking even in comparison to the launch, it really comes down to what you see every day

Snap On is ok on VAG but very weak on the rest of Euro, US and Asian is were it is best on