Level for home renos/framing - value brands and useful sizes?

[daithi]

Need to buy some levels for home framing/renos. All I have right now is a cheap Stanley torpedo.

Not living in a big city, my options to buy locally are Home Hardware (Benchmark house brand, kinda junk) or Canadian tire (Mastercraft/Maxiumum House Brand, a few Johnsons 9850 Series Box).

My next option would be to drive around an hour (each way) to the other Big Boxes - HD or Rona. HD have DeWalt (DWHT43079), Empire (not True Blue), Milwaukee (not Redstick) or Husky. Rona who knows what they have because the website won't let me filter by store, but some combination of Johnson/Craftsman/Irwin and maybe Kobalt (although they seem to be online-only in Canada).

Last option is to buy online, so I obviously can't test in store before buying.

I don't need an heirloom tool, I also don't really have the budget for it.

Doesn't take much time on google to find recommendations for Stabila, Stabila, Stabila and maybe Sola. There's a few SKUs of Stabila sets (eg "Be a Pro") with 12/24/48 for ~$190 CAD. That's manageable price wise although I would still need something longer eg 72 or 78".
Also for as much as they're recommended online, nothing is perfect and Stabila is no exception:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tools/comments/ins4id If I have an issue what then? Ship a massive, unwieldy package away for repair/recalibration? This is a genuine question, I don't know where the nearest dealer would be.

Sola are a bit harder to find in Canada, less retailers to cross shop. Individually the levels are cheaper but I haven't found as many sets that compare to that Stabila 3pc.

Would I be happy with 12/24/48 and a 6'? I've seencomments that once people got a 16" and a jamb set (32 & 78") the 24 and 48 are almost never used any more. But the Jamb sets from both the S brands are $380. That is... A big jump for me.

I have been looking at other brands but again I'd have to buy online. Some examples:
DeWalt Jamb Set - $158 - https://www.homedepot.ca/product/dewalt-3-inch-78-inch-magnetic-door-jamb-set/1001447955
Empire True Blue Jamb Set - $170 CAD - https://www.jccayer.com/32-78-true-bluer-magnetic-jamb-set.html
Milwaukee RedStick Jamb Set - $280 - https://edmfast.com/milwaukee-mlbxjbm-78-32-redstick-box-level-jamb-set/
Kapro Apollo Jamb Set - $185 - https://www.ihlcanada.com/kapro-985m-x-jmb-apollo-32-in-and-78-in-magnetic-33430
(of course all of these brands have options that aren't "jamb sets")

They all have decent reviews on Amazon/HD websites but I figure people here might be a bit more critical.
The Kapro are "VPA Certified", whatever that means/is worth.

I'm also not in a huge hurry to purchase these, I can definitely wait for Black Friday/Boxing Day sales. Just hoping to get something before this spring. But I don't know how often any of them go on sale.

 

[mike93lx]

A cheap three plane green laser (huepar, POWAFUL), a torpedo, 2', and 4' (mine are mostly empire, but also have a couple Stanley). You should be under 200 for all of that. Add a string line and you are good to go.

IMO, you don't need a 6'

Dont get caught up in stabila or any goofy branding.

 

[MovingAlong]

@daithi "If I have an issue what then? Ship a massive, unwieldy package away for repair/recalibration? This is a genuine question, I don't know where the nearest dealer would be."

Recommend the INSIZE for it's ability to adjust zero. I have trust issues and enjoy being able to check/set actual "level", I'm the calibrator.

While the linked one is 32", a 24" level is plenty - for leveling. A 4' or 6' is nice for checking high/low spots in a wall/floor/ceiling or framing, but you're just using it as a straight-edge at that point. If you need to level between two points that are more than 2' apart, just use a 2"x4" to span the gap and level off that.

Would not trade my adjustable 24" for a factory set anything...

 

[Rusted Nut]

Except for the bottom end cheap stuff, almost anything else is accurate enough for most construction projects. Get a 24” and 48”, you’re good to go.

 

[speed bump]

A decent 2 ft level and a 4 ft level will cover most of what you need to do. I would buy whatever aluminum levels are on sale at locally, I think I have Johnson's, empires, and Stanley's in those sizes.

 

[cgrutt]

agree with 2 and 4 foot. I use a 4' most often. 78" is good if you're doing alot of doors or decks. I'm kinda ticked I bent mine need to replace it. I've been buying Johnson levels lately. Mostly because that's what they carry at my local Lowes.

 

[KnurledNut]

If this is for the house you're self-building, I'd get a Stabila.

If this was for hanging pictures, I'd say get whatever.

Regarding sizes, on the houses I've built, 4' and 6' were boss for framing. Thats where I'd put my money on Stabila. They will take the rough handling and provide reliable repeatable accuracy. You want the frame as close to spec as possible because it affects everything that comes after it. I know that's not what you want to hear, but that's my advice. A lot of people will argue that, but it's what I know works from decades using them. FWIW, they also hold their resale value better than any other brand.

For finish work, torpedos, 16", 24" and jambers all have their place, but this is where I would consider some cheaper options. I even have a 59" I cut down in size just for tub/shower work.

Watch some videos on how to check a level for accuracy, and regardless of what you end up with, make sure it reads right.

 

[Beerhippie]

24, 48, and 78" in whatever you can afford. That INSIZE looks nice with the adjustable bubble, but 32" is an odd size, only the level bubble can be corrected and I'd much prefer another plumb bubble to a 45--never seen the use for one. The 78" "door" level is far more useful than just hanging doors. I use mine frequently, and I haven't hung a door in twenty-odd years.

Learn how to check a level and do so before every critical use.

 

[nadogail]

I bought my last two from Harbor Freight, they are both accurate to within half a bubble.

 

[lardy1]

Empire makes affordable aluminum levels right here in the good od U.S of A. that are plenty sufficient for most homeowners. As a former carpenter/builder, I suggest a 24" and a 48" as well.

 

[Hakeem]

A 2’ and a 6’ would be my suggestion. A 6’ level is more expensive and less practical than a 4’ but it is so useful for framing, drywall, hanging cabinets/doors, and a bunch of other random stuff you wouldn’t expect. I think any major brand is fine so long as you can inspect and test it in person beforehand.

I always thought the lighted vials were a gimmick but after using them they really are a nice feature

 

[mike93lx]

A 2’ and a 6’ would be my suggestion. A 6’ level is more expensive and less practical than a 4’

A 72”-78” level is so useful for framing, drywall, hanging cabinets/doors, I’d say it’s more useful than a 4’

I dont feel like my 48" has ever been inadequate for framing, drywall or hanging cabinets. For doors, I tend to use a 24" as it's lighter and easier to handle, or more often, the laser

Maybe I just don't know what I'm missing?

 

[mikey03]

I got a 2 foot and a 4 foot and honestly I think I had a 6 foot instead of the 4 footers. When I was installing a door recently the 6 footer would have been better than the 4. And I think most of the time I’m using the 4 I could be getting away with the 2

do they make a 5 footer? maybe that with the 2 footer would be good

 

[mikey03]

I dont feel like my 48" has ever been inadequate for framing, drywall or hanging cabinets. For doors, I tend to use a 24" as it's lighter and easier to handle, or more often, the laser

Maybe I just don't know what I'm missing?

The distance between the jamb where the door shims go is more than 2 feet so would annoy me personally tbh

 

[daithi]

A cheap three plane green laser (huepar, POWAFUL), a torpedo, 2', and 4' (mine are mostly empire, but also have a couple Stanley). You should be under 200 for all of that. Add a string line and you are good to go.

IMO, you don't need a 6'

Dont get caught up in stabila or any goofy branding.

I had never even thought about Chinese lasers, will have to do some digging

Recommend the INSIZE for it's ability to adjust zero. I have trust issues and enjoy being able to check/set actual "level", I'm the calibrator.

While the linked one is 32", a 24" level is plenty - for leveling. A 4' or 6' is nice for checking high/low spots in a wall/floor/ceiling or framing, but you're just using it as a straight-edge at that point. If you need to level between two points that are more than 2' apart, just use a 2"x4" to span the gap and level off that.

Would not trade my adjustable 24" for a factory set anything...

I get checking a level by turning it 180* to see if the bubble is in the same place, but how do you calibrate it? You need a "known" plum line to measure off or you adjust the vial screws one at a time until it matches after turning it 180*?

I know that's not what you want to hear, but that's my advice. A lot of people will argue that, but it's what I know works from decades using them. FWIW, they also hold their resale value better than any other brand.

I would have been (genuinely) disappointed in GJ if someone hadn't recommended the Stabila. At the end of the day if they're really that much better then so be it, I'll spend the money. I have a lot of expenses coming up that I have to juggle, but I don't want to cheap out on something I'll regret. But I have a "problem" with trying to get the best "value" or "deal" out of every tool I purchase. I have probably 10 different brands of pliers, 4 brands of sockets, 5 brands of hammers etc in my toolbox at work, and most of them I read reviews and agonized over. My work toolbox took me months to pull the trigger on!

I built a garage probably 20 years ago with my Dad with ****** B&D levels or whatever he found on sale. That thing's still standing AFAIK, and it definitely wasn't level . But you're right, I want the bones of the house to be as damn near perfect as I can get them because every mistake after that compounds.

 

[dcg9381]

A cheap three plane green laser (huepar, POWAFUL), a torpedo, 2', and 4' (mine are mostly empire, but also have a couple Stanley). You should be under 200 for all of that. Add a string line and you are good to go.

The lasers are great, I use mine all the time.

Modern accelerometers are great.. They sell these as "digital levels". I'm better with the "bubble" app on my phone than I am with a 2' level.

 

[MovingAlong]

I get checking a level by turning it 180* to see if the bubble is in the same place, but how do you calibrate it? You need a "known" plum line to measure off or you adjust the vial screws one at a time until it matches after turning it 180*?

There will be adjustments to make - screws, dials, etc. INSIZE is the only thing I'd found that is adjustable. Yes, just strike a line on a wall, spin it 180, strike another line. If they are perfect - great. If they cross in the middle, split the difference and reset the bubble to level. Now when you spin it end to end it will be perfect.

The INSIZE isn't adjustable for plumb, but plumb is pretty easy to do with a chalk box or a real plumb bob. Those cheap levels of yesteryear used to all be adjustable. Will keep my 30+ year old adjustable generic over a new fixed name brand any day...

At the end of the day, the only thing that "levels" is the vial. Everything else around it (24, 48, 72 inch pieces of aluminum) is just packaging...

 

[Beerhippie]

@daithi
:I get checking a level by turning it 180* to see if the bubble is in the same place, but how do you calibrate it? You need a "known" plum line to measure off or you adjust the vial screws one at a time until it matches after turning it 180*?

Basically, yes. Works for plumb and level.

Thing to remember about rough construction tools is multi-use. These are the tools you actually value on the jobsite. A level is also a straightedge, for aligning and marking--hence the long level often come in handy. For actual door hanging, a door level spans all the hinges--where the shims go to true the frame--and the spaces in between.

 

[The Cobbler]

a bullet level, a 2' and 4' are minimum, and likely all you need.
but I have a 30" & a 60" for doing tile in bathrooms and a 72" for hanging doors. they sure speed up things for their intended purposes

 

[Robinson1]

Ive always liked Johnson levels. I’ve had the same 2 and 4 foot levels in my work truck for years. Dont use them to screed concrete, tamp posts or as a pry bar. Use common sense and they will last a long time.

 

[KnurledNut]

Ive always liked Johnson levels. I’ve had the same 2 and 4 foot levels in my work truck for years. Dont use them to screed concrete, tamp posts or as a pry bar. Use common sense and they will last a long time.

Some of the older Johnson levels were made by Sola. They will say Made in Austria. Excellent levels.

 

[Hakeem]

I dont feel like my 48" has ever been inadequate for framing, drywall or hanging cabinets. For doors, I tend to use a 24" as it's lighter and easier to handle, or more often, the laser

Maybe I just don't know what I'm missing?

Yes, if you don’t own a 6-footer, I think using one would change your mind. They let you assess level and plumb over more of the workpiece, resulting in a better end result—in my opinion, anyways.

If you’re framing and want to check if a stud is in or out of plumb, where do you hold the 4’? Maybe you get a different reading at the top half vs the bottom half - which one do you trust? A 6’ or larger removes that uncertainty.

For drywall, I find them useful for ensuring flatness when I’m sanding my topcoats. i hold it vertically on the wall and make sure I didn’t leave a hump. It’s also useful for setting corner beads, especially when the framing is a bit out of plumb and you have to do some “mud framing”.

And when you have 3-4 cabinet lowers that you’ve fastened together and fastened to a wall that’s neither in plumb nor square, using a level that can span all of the cabinets is the best way to ensure they are all flat and level. Not just along the edges but from corner to corner, as well.

If you don’t have one, i humbly suggest picking one up. I think you’ll find that it lets you achieve better results with less overall effort.

 

[LWB]

I prefer a 4 footer for framing. 6 foot would probably be better but cumbersome. A longer level gives you a fighting chance of getting your wall straight. Lot's of fire blocking too. You have to force it to be somewhat straight. 6 footer for doors and floors. I borrow that when needed.

I have a hard plastic case, which is fantastic for protection and I believe you can get one with a Johnson level.

 

[tarbellb]

Was my digital Stabila worth the cost, sure
Spectrum laser nice to use, yup

but my arsenal includes HD Empire levels and Huapar lasers that I use w zero issues

 

[loganb]

I like my stabila, but for home use wouldn't hesitate on any similar type of other brands.

 

[acer66]

It’s Stabila for me, I abuse some of them for decades now and they are still on the spot.

FHB build tested another brand a while ago and they dropped it from a height they dropped their Stabila’s many times before without problems and it was bend out of shape no pun intended.

 

[Wiz02]

@daithi Are you doing plumbing? I find the empire levels with the pitch marks very easy to use when running dwv pipe that needs to be pitched.

 

[AEAdam]

Framed a wall yesterday and finished a new set of steps. More today. I’ll take some pics and update this post. Couple comments:

Go hire someone to build your house if you are not a pro. You are probably going to make a mess. If you don’t know what level to buy that tells me you have no idea what you are doing. Take a breath after reading this.

• Because you don’t have the advantage of skill that takes years to learn, don’t tie your other hand behind your back by trying to tackle something challenging by starting with the WORLDS CHEAPEST TOOLS.We see this other and other here. It’s a logic error.
• I used the heck out of 6’ R stabila yesterday plumbing my walls. The reason you want 6’ is studs are not true enough and you could be plumb over 2 or 4’ but you’ll find that with your 6’ level. Other reason is to keep your studs in plane from stud to stud (Keyword: “crown”). The R shape is stable and easy to hold.
• Laser levels are awesome I have 2. An older red Bosch that I can’t see and a new 3 beam Bosch green one I can. Both were very expensive (approx $400). As great as laser levels are, the laser beam is pretty thick and therefore imprecise. And they aren’t easy to align to stuff. Point is: you can’t substitute a laser level for a real one. But I love having one.
• Best advice I can give: DIY anything is harder than people make it seem. Spend some of the money you are saving doing DIY on tools to make your life easier. I am also cheap and on a strict budget. I am VERY reluctant to invest in tools, especially those I don’t think I will need long term. This bites me over and over.
• One more thing. Framing is said to be very coarse work. Any hack can build a wall with 2x4s. The difference between good framing and bad becomes evident when the wall board, trim, flooring etc goes on. Spend the time to do it well.

 

[RegeSullivan]

If I could only have 2 they would be a 24" and 48" for framing, mid priced, medium quality for framing as these will likely get occasional abuse. I think Empire is decent for the money. That said in addition to 24" and 48" I find a 8" or 9" magnetic level pretty handy for many projects. 72" and 96" levels can be pretty handy to and make a pretty good straight edge especially checking a framed wall for bowed studs. Takes afew minutes to fix but can save hours getting drywall right.

 

[lardy1]

If you're budget minded, remember that a length of clear tube filled with water is as accurate as anything you are going to encounter. Not the fastest way but incredibly accurate.

 

[AEAdam]

My 2 and 4’ are the digital models. Wouldn’t buy them again. There’s nothing absolute about the digital part and they get out of whack. You calibrate them by putting the level someplace level and hitting the calibrate button.

In fact, I think big box store 2 and 4 footers would probably be fine. The one you want to spend on, the one you really rely on is the 6 footer. The jamber set is attractive if the 2 levels are discounted. Otherwise I’ve done several doors and windows with my 6’ and 2’.


This is a barn conversion, which I think is probably the most technically difficult carpentry one can attempt. For room layout, the need for a laser level is exaggerated in a 100yr old barn, but the difference between this and a home is really just a matter of magnitude of how far out the walls and floors and stud/joist spacings are.

Experienced guys might notice from the cabinet blocking that this is a rough in for a kitchen (ette). Kitchens and baths are the absolute hardest of an already tough job that even pros struggle with.

In my earlier post, I was harsh just to make this point. I have TONS of advantages and not one piece of this was easy. This is really difficult work and people try and fail. So take it serious. Don’t even consider skimping on tools. For years I practiced woodworking. I never waited for the job to try something new. Every new tool I buy gets played with and experimented on. I can’t afford to “learn as I go”

One last thing: there’s an old adage: “putty and paint make a carpenter what he ain’t”

This is abject ********. You can spot bad carpentry thru any putty and paint. Money and time are what’s required to correct bad carpentry and lots of both.

Good luck

 

[daithi]

Framed a wall yesterday and finished a new set of steps. More today. I’ll take some pics and update this post. Couple comments:

Go hire someone to build your house if you are not a pro. You are probably going to make a mess. If you don’t know what level to buy that tells me you have no idea what you are doing. Take a breath after reading this.

• Because you don’t have the advantage of skill that takes years to learn, don’t tie your other hand behind your back by trying to tackle something challenging by starting with the WORLDS CHEAPEST TOOLS.We see this other and other here. It’s a logic error.
• I used the heck out of 6’ R stabila yesterday plumbing my walls. The reason you want 6’ is studs are not true enough and you could be plumb over 2 or 4’ but you’ll find that with your 6’ level. Other reason is to keep your studs in plane from stud to stud (Keyword: “crown”). The R shape is stable and easy to hold.
• Laser levels are awesome I have 2. An older red Bosch that I can’t see and a new 3 beam Bosch green one I can. Both were very expensive (approx $400). As great as laser levels are, the laser beam is pretty thick and therefore imprecise. And they aren’t easy to align to stuff. Point is: you can’t substitute a laser level for a real one. But I love having one.
• Best advice I can give: DIY anything is harder than people make it seem. Spend some of the money you are saving doing DIY on tools to make your life easier. I am also cheap and on a strict budget. I am VERY reluctant to invest in tools, especially those I don’t think I will need long term. This bites me over and over.
• One more thing. Framing is said to be very coarse work. Any hack can build a wall with 2x4s. The difference between good framing and bad becomes evident when the wall board, trim, flooring etc goes on. Spend the time to do it well.

My 2 and 4’ are the digital models. Wouldn’t buy them again. There’s nothing absolute about the digital part and they get out of whack. You calibrate them by putting the level someplace level and hitting the calibrate button.

In fact, I think big box store 2 and 4 footers would probably be fine. The one you want to spend on, the one you really rely on is the 6 footer. The jamber set is attractive if the 2 levels are discounted. Otherwise I’ve done several doors and windows with my 6’ and 2’.

This is a barn conversion, which I think is probably the most technically difficult carpentry one can attempt. For room layout, the need for a laser level is exaggerated in a 100yr old barn, but the difference between this and a home is really just a matter of magnitude of how far out the walls and floors and stud/joist spacings are.

Experienced guys might notice from the cabinet blocking that this is a rough in for a kitchen (ette). Kitchens and baths are the absolute hardest of an already tough job that even pros struggle with.

In my earlier post, I was harsh just to make this point. I have TONS of advantages and not one piece of this was easy. This is really difficult work and people try and fail. So take it serious. Don’t even consider skimping on tools. For years I practiced woodworking. I never waited for the job to try something new. Every new tool I buy gets played with and experimented on. I can’t afford to “learn as I go”

One last thing: there’s an old adage: “putty and paint make a carpenter what he ain’t”

This is abject ********. You can spot bad carpentry thru any putty and paint. Money and time are what’s required to correct bad carpentry and lots of both.

Good luck

Appreciate the caution. This is the only way I can afford to own a house. Most of the work I'm planning on doing personally is labor. What's the point of going to work to make $35 an hour (and get taxed on it) only to turn around and pay someone $30/hr to dig a hole or carry a sheet of plywood across the yard? I haven't taken a day off in 2 years and I've banked enough vacation/stat holidays that I'll be able to go to work 1 day a week but be on the site/house 4 days a week and take home 80% of my regular pay cheque for almost 4 months.

I've got a crew lined up to do the foundation.
I've got a carpenter for framing.
I've got a plumber and electrician and am going to get someone to spec my HRV.

For all of these there are aspects I can 100% do - measure, cut, carry. I can pull wire and get my electrician to tie everything in. I can insulate it myself as I'm doing rockwool in the stud cavities.
The house has also been designed with that in mind. Ask a 6 year old to draw a house and they'll be pretty close... A rectangular box with a triangle on top. No dormers or hips or anything funky. A full service cavity inside the stud wall/vapour barrier for running pipe/wire - no penetrations in the cavity insulation or vapour barrier, nothing needs to be taped around. No trades need to plan running wire/pipe through load bearing lumber. Full span joists and trusses, no point loading to the foundation.

I do worry about it sometimes, but I did 4 years of an apprenticeship to become a mechanic (standard here, I know it's different in some of the US), but walk down the street any day of the week and you'll see someone doing an oil change or a brake job. If they can do that I can work under the guidance of trades to frame a wall or hang an interior door.
But to get back on track and talk tools again... I don't need to buy the absolute cheapest. I have a tool budget, I have lots of room in it still.

But I like tool shopping and finding the best "value" and I have 6+ months until we break ground to shop used or wait for sales. I have thousands of dollars of tools at work, but I don't own a single SnapOn piece and it's never held me back. I shop around and find rec's from places like GJ. Where it makes sense to buy the expensive option I'll do it - I wouldn't trade my Knipex circlip pliers for anything. But where you can get 99% of the tool for 60% of the cost I'll keep my Tsunoda flush cutters and not buy the SnapOn.

That's all I'm looking for with the discussion on levels. If the alternatives to Stabila are really not up to scratch, if my walls aren't going to be plum/level... Then I'll buy the Stabila. I'll either have it for life or sell it on if I decide I'm never framing a wall again. But if the alternatives are 99% of the way there but just can't be "manhandled" as much... Well I'll go that route. If I break it and replace it I'll still come out on top. And most likely I'll fall somewhere in the middle like you suggested - cheaper torped, 2', 4' and a more premium 6'.

 

[Beerhippie]

....

One last thing: there’s an old adage: “putty and paint make a carpenter what he ain’t”

This is abject ********. You can spot bad carpentry thru any putty and paint. Money and time are what’s required to correct bad carpentry and lots of both.

Good luck

I've had to explain to friends and acquaintances who decided to do their own work that there is no trim to cover trim.

 

[mike93lx]

I've had to explain to friends and acquaintances who decided to do their own work that there is no trim to cover trim.

Quarter round would like a word

 

[danski0224]

Need to buy some levels for home framing/renos. All I have right now is a cheap Stanley torpedo.

I have a couple of Sola X Pro levels, and prefer their bubble visibility over other levels I have and have used.

I also have a couple of lasers, which get used much more than standard levels, and laser detectors.

 

[AEAdam]

Appreciate the caution. This is the only way I can afford to own a house.

I don’t understand that, but I’ll take your word for it. Building a house has to be the single most expensive and inefficient way to have a home. But my situation isn’t so different. I cannot afford to buy what I’m building.

Most of the work I'm planning on doing personally is labor. What's the point of going to work to make $35 an hour (and get taxed on it) only to turn around and pay someone $30/hr to dig a hole or carry a sheet of plywood across the yard?

That’s it!! Feel the exact same way. Only here the labor rate is closer to or much more than $100/hr. What gets me is when I pay guys that who then need my help, borrow my tools, or simply don’t do a good job. I feel like maybe this is God’s way of telling me to quit my day job.

The house has also been designed with that in mind. Ask a 6 year old to draw a house and they'll be pretty close... A rectangular box with a triangle on top. No dormers or hips or anything funky. A full service cavity inside the stud wall/vapour barrier for running pipe/wire - no penetrations in the cavity insulation or vapour barrier, nothing needs to be taped around. No trades need to plan running wire/pipe through load bearing lumber. Full span joists and trusses, no point loading to the foundation.

Sounds like a man designed house. Don’t forget pretty. I know some really wonderful craftsman (esp Amish) who do beautiful work but make ugly things. This may not seem logical (but women aren’t logical) you can add a lot of value by making things pretty.

This little facade is simple, but deceptively complicated in it’s details, finishes, and proportions.

But I like tool shopping and finding the best "value" and I have 6+ months until we break ground to shop used or wait for sales. I have thousands of dollars of tools at work, but I don't own a single SnapOn piece and it's never held me back. I shop around and find rec's from places like GJ. Where it makes sense to buy the expensive option I'll do it - I wouldn't trade my Knipex circlip pliers for anything. But where you can get 99% of the tool for 60% of the cost I'll keep my Tsunoda flush cutters and not buy the SnapOn.

I hear ya and comiserate. I should have bought a bobcat when this job started and I didn’t because I was stupid and cheap and naive. I needed lifting equipment for a recent job. My wife caught me struggling with cheap rope and pulleys and rented me a material lift. If you are a hobby “whatever”, doing the equivalent of oil changes, buy what you want. Building a house is a different level. Pretty sure I have a $20 German carpenters pencil and Japanese tape measure. Buy the best. It’s the wasted time that will run you broke. In this case, short level, buy what you want. Long levels, Stabila and don’t buy used.

I’m pulling for you. PM with any questions or advice. 8 yrs in I’m ALMOST done.

Edit - I used the "wide angle lens" on my iPhone that picture is distorted. You'll have to take my word for it with the proportions.

 

[mhejl]

I have Stabila 96s and digitals. I also have Sola Big Reds and digitals. Sola for the win - the vials are much easier to read and don't have the square vial off-angle dyslexia of the Stabilas. The Bluetooth on the Sola digitals is useful, too.

I previously posted some pics here.

The calibration on either of the digitals isn't just "putting the level someplace level and hitting the calibrate button". RTFM. After initial calibration, I haven't found "drift" to be an issue with either Stabila or Sola.

I find the digitals extremely useful to listen for the beep when leveling, say, a fridge. The Sola even more so - just watch the app on the phone. At my age, I do have a hard time hearing that particular frequency. Given the cost, though, I'd probably only buy the 10" Sola digital today and piggyback it on a longer level as needed.

I also found the little digital 9" Swanson level to be junk, as I expect most of the cheaper units are. The little 3" Sola digital is a waste of money - you (or I) can't hear the beep at all.

 

[tjansson]

I have a 2 ft Sands, 4 ft mid range Stanley, cheap empire torpedo, one of the nicer Bosch laser levels. They all read the same. I vote for box store mid range. Stabila is over hyped imo.

 

[Joemctag]

@daithi
:I get checking a level by turning it 180* to see if the bubble is in the same place, but how do you calibrate it? You need a "known" plum line to measure off or you adjust the vial screws one at a time until it matches after turning it 180*?

Basically, yes. Works for plumb and level.

Thing to remember about rough construction tools is multi-use. These are the tools you actually value on the jobsite. A level is also a straightedge, for aligning and marking--hence the long level often come in handy. For actual door hanging, a door level spans all the hinges--where the shims go to true the frame--and the spaces in between.

I’ve never in my whole career assumed that my levels read perfect. I always reverse whether checking for plumb or for level. Unless the level IS perfect, you just split the difference. For example, bubble a little bit to left, then the same amount to right when you reverse it means that whatever you’re checking is now perfectly plumb or level. Simple. None of this “It’s within the bubbles, so it’s okay” stuff.

 

[gahrajmahal]

Several summers ago I was building stone steps up our hillside. I had several bubble levels I was using to keep everything going. I found it to be very difficult to add 1” per foot slope for adequate drainage. (Half a bubble or 6 deg) so I bought one of these Klein digital magnetic levels. I stuck it on a piece of 24” long angle iron and it really made the slope an easy job. For $30 you should add one to your tool box.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Klein-Tools-Digital-Angle-Gauge-and-Level/5014305589