Leveling ground for build

[Catadj78]

For the experienced levelers out there.

I am expecting materials for my build to be delivered in the next 7-10 days but I need to get ready to start building before hand.

Shop 40x40 pole barn

Facing the front of the shop from left to right there is a 16-18" drop in the span of 40'.

How do I need to start?

I have 0 experience building a pole barn. I do have construction experience but I never had to do the leveling, it was always done by someone else.

I set a laser level up and measured around and to make sure I then pulled a string line to double check the laser since it was purchased used.

Help?! lol

 

[DaveF.]

For the experienced levelers out there.

I am expecting materials for my build to be delivered in the next 7-10 days but I need to get ready to start building before hand.

Shop 40x40 pole barn

Facing the front of the shop from left to right there is a 16-18" drop in the span of 40'.

How do I need to start?

I have 0 experience building a pole barn. I do have construction experience but I never had to do the leveling, it was always done by someone else.

I set a laser level up and measured around and to make sure I then pulled a string line to double check the laser since it was purchased used.

Help?! lol

I really think you should have a professional excavator look at your site, to give you some advice. You could peel off that extra ground, move the existing ground around, or you might need to bring in more fill to put on top.

Determining the right approach is going to depend on a variety of factors. Are you planning to put in a concrete floor after the pole building is up? What type of drainage issues do you need to deal with? What type of ground do you have? What about a driveway?

 

[Catadj78]

Where the building is going has very good drainage. No standing water anywhere even with heavy heavy rains we have had lately. (I have been out in the yard in the rain looking)

The plan was to remove several inches of top soil and store elsewhere in the yard for later. Level the top soil in the area where I was building.

Bring in red dirt to level the entire area where the build will take place then slowly sloping back to the original slope the yard has.

Erect building and use the top soil to slope away from building.

I just was not counting on 18" or more of slope to deal with

 

[Bondo]

For the experienced levelers out there.

I am expecting materials for my build to be delivered in the next 7-10 days but I need to get ready to start building before hand.

Shop 40x40 pole barn

Facing the front of the shop from left to right there is a 16-18" drop in the span of 40'.

How do I need to start?

I have 0 experience building a pole barn. I do have construction experience but I never had to do the leveling, it was always done by someone else.

I set a laser level up and measured around and to make sure I then pulled a string line to double check the laser since it was purchased used.

Help?! lol

Ayuh,.... Are the native soils useable for the floor,..??
sandy,..?? muddy,..?? gravel,..??

The grade is fallin', from left to right,...
What's uphill to the left of the foot print,..??
Ya gotta deal with any water comin' down the hill, before ya dam it up with yer barn,...

If ya cut the left side, to fill the right side, ya still need the grade to the left of the cut to drain properly,...

 

[Bondo]

Where the building is going has very good drainage. No standing water anywhere even with heavy heavy rains we have had lately. (I have been out in the yard in the rain looking)

The plan was to remove several inches of top soil and store elsewhere in the yard for later. Level the top soil in the area where I was building.

Bring in red dirt to level the entire area where the build will take place then slowly sloping back to the original slope the yard has.

Erect building and use the top soil to slope away from building.

I just was not counting on 18" or more of slope to deal with

Ayuh,.... You posted as I was typin',...

You'll just need a few more dump trucks of fill,....

 

[Catadj78]

Ayuh,.... Are the native soils useable for the floor,..??
sandy,..?? muddy,..?? gravel,..??

The grade is fallin', from left to right,...
What's uphill to the left of the foot print,..??
Ya gotta deal with any water comin' down the hill, before ya dam it up with yer barn,...

If ya cut the left side, to fill the right side, ya still need the grade to the left of the cut to drain properly,...

To the left 56' is my fence line then a small easement and ditch 14' or so.

I do plan on 5" concrete as soon as the building goes up

 

[Bondo]

To the left 56' is my fence line then a small easement and ditch 14' or so.

I do plan on 5" concrete as soon as the building goes up

Ayuh,... Get yer laser out again, 'n be SURE the water pitches away from yer final finish grade,...

 

[DaveF.]

Ayuh,.... Are the native soils useable for the floor,..??
sandy,..?? muddy,..?? gravel,..??

The grade is fallin', from left to right,...
What's uphill to the left of the foot print,..??
Ya gotta deal with any water comin' down the hill, before ya dam it up with yer barn,...

If ya cut the left side, to fill the right side, ya still need the grade to the left of the cut to drain properly,...

I've built four out-buildings on two different properties over the last 15 years and in EVERY CASE I was shocked at how much excavating was required once we put the level up and accounted for drainage issues.

 

[GPKughn]

I just dealt with something similar. I just had a 40' x 60' pole barn built. I remove the grass and top soil with the bucket on the tractor and piled it up for use later. I had about a 18" low spot on the northwest corner of the building that gradually sloped down from the level grade. After the barn was built I had 130 yards of washed sand brought in and compacted in preparation for the concrete. The sand was about $7.50 a yard. It was easy to do once the barn was up. I ran out of warm weather and the concrete will wait until spring. But, I am using the barn with the compacted sand for storage of some pretty heavy equipment and it is hard as a rock.

 

[Bondo]

I've built four out-buildings on two different properties over the last 15 years and in EVERY CASE I was shocked at how much excavating was required once we put the level up and accounted for drainage issues.

Ayuh,.... Agreed,...

Flat ground usually ain't anywhere nearly as level as ya "Think" it is,.....

 

[mbatarga]

Reference point - it took 21 dump truck loads of red clay to level my 38x60 pad that dropped about 23" from the front left to the back right corner.

 

[Catadj78]

Reference point - it took 21 dump truck loads of red clay to level my 38x60 pad that dropped about 23" from the front left to the back right corner.

wow, I was guessing maybe 2 loads but looks like I may have figured wrong there too.

How much did a load cost?

 

[XS29L9B]

wow, I was guessing maybe 2 loads but looks like I may have figured wrong there too.

How much did a load cost?

Check Craigslist in the FREE section, every week someone is giving away truck loads of dirt.

 

[jgorm]

I needed about 30yd of fill for a 3' drop on a 25x33 pad.

 

[bczygan]

There is an art to properly excavating.

On our jobs, we always tried to balance cut and fill.

That way you didn't have to spend money to dispose of cut material or pay to bring in fill.

But that is for the site itself. None of the organic material on the site should be used under the building.

As far as locating the building, I always try to set the finish floor at least 6 or 9 inches above the highest adjacent grade. This allows me to slope adjacent grade away from the building for positive drainage and to keep water away from the building.

Once you excavate all the organic material (Dark soil) down to the clay or sand or other subsurface material, you can sometimes have a need for feet of compacted fill. But the building pad is the most important thing to avoid settling and cracking of your slab.

One job was a credit union on a former farmers field. We had to excavate 4' of nice rich black loam from the entire site and replace it with sand fill compacted in 8" layers.

I don't recommend sand or crushed concrete for fill under your building. I recommend crushed limestone with fines or the equivalent in your area No round material. Sharp and angular material with fines and stone dust, that will pack down flat and compact into a concrete like mass.

Sites that are all clay are a special problem. If you dig a hole to put in a base, unless it is well compacted, so water can't infiltrate, you have just made a bathtub.

There is a lot to know about different kinds of surface and subsurface geology. And things differ by region, as well as being site specific. It pays to talk to local experts and also have them examine your particular site.

Bill

 

[Platonic Solid]

I spent forever with a laser level making a topographic map for a driveway relocation project. Then the town told me I needed an “official” surveyor drawing. So I hired a surveyor for $500. He spent a few hours on my property and left. A week later I had a full property survey, a topographic map, and the 3D CAD files. On the up side, his survey agreed with mine. On the down side, what he did in a few hours took me several weekends.

I took his (before) CAD file and used it to make the (after) drawing. This allowed me to figure the exact amount of fill required. I very quickly learned that a 16yd dump truck load of fill was nothing. I set up posts in strategic locations with colored tape indicating the new fill level for the excavator contractor to guarantee proper drainage. The contractor originally questioned the accuracy of my posts stating: “You sure you want it that high?” (Some of the posts had tape markings 3ft above existing grade.) I assured him the markings were correct.

End result: 1200 yards of fill + gravel + topsoil and I had my level driveway.

 

[Catadj78]

This IS a pole barn. No footers

Would it be advisable to remove 4" +/- of top soil then erect the building with the concrete grade mark on grade board being 4 +/="s higher than highest surrounding grade and then put red clay in the building and grade sloping away with the remaining top soil?

thanks

 

[Catadj78]

Would red dirt be ok for base? or should I go sand or gravel?

I am in central Alabama

 

[Catadj78]

Well I called the guy that is doing my concrete asking him what he would prefer to pour over. He says he also does grade work and is coming out Saturday. Gave me an estimate of $1200 with him doing all the leveling of the site and 2 loads of stone.

I did quick figuring and figured it was only costing me $400 over what I could have done it myself for.... small price to pay I think.

 

[machsnell]

yes have concrete guy do it. 2 loads of stone is 40 +- tons of stone at 4". Good enough.

Just make sure he uses a good size roller and not a plate tamper unless its one of the beastly kind that cant be lifted by two guys. Vibratory roller better.

Once dirt is cut proof roll it or probe it to make sure its solid and undercut if necessary.

4" of crete is a little light and that slab will only be as strong as what its put on.

with 40 x 40 you will have some weight on it no doubt and he is cheap so if you see something soft cut it then easier than fixing concrete later.

Cheap insurance to add microfiber to concrete also and not harder to finish.

 

[Catadj78]

I am pouring 5" of concrete with 8" in a smaller area where a future lift may go.

He is buying, pouring, finishing and cutting lines for $4k I am however providing and installing the mesh and plastic.

I really believe I can get by with digging the top soil up and at least semi leveling the dirt before putting the building up and then bring in sand or red dirt and leveling before pouring concrete but I really dont want to waste 4K in concrete if I am wrong.

 

[machsnell]

4k is a good deal. 5' is a good slab gradually thickening to 8" where posts go.

cut topsoil and see what you have. take a piece of rebar and weld it into a t and sharpen the end a little and use it as a probe rod. If it goes in easy then its wet or bad. if it doesnt then you are good.

either that or roll a heavy truck over it and proof roll it to see if ground pumps or moves.

If you are building building first it will be good to give the ground a chance to dry out. Dry dirt is mucho mas mejor than wet dirt.

either way with metal in it i would get microfiber in the concrete. Cheap and good.

 

[Catadj78]

I have a F350 DRW and I have driven over where the shop is going and it wouldnt leave any tire impressions when dry. After several inches of rain I drove over it again and it would leave 3/4-1" impression while the ground is saturated.

I have not seen any standing water anywhere in the area of the shop and only seen standing water once in the backyard since I have lived here 9 months. It was very little in one spot and it was after several days of continuous rain of 3 or more inches.