Leveling site for a pole barn??

[Old Gas Nut]

I'm getting ready to have a pole barn built here in a couple weeks. I asked the contractor who is going to build it, what I needed to do to get the ground ready for him. He just said scrape the top soil back and get it fairly level. My lot is already pretty level, it only drops about a foot from one side to the other. I understand that if I take off about 6 inches off topsoil, they will hold the bottoms of the walls about 4 inches off the ground, which would put it close to ground level. But with the other side, if I take off 6 inches of topsoil and I'm a foot lower than the other side, will I need to bring some fill in to level the whole area up? Or can they just level the building, and I will level the inside with gravel once they are done. Wondered how others have done it and what works best. I'll probably call the contractor back and get more specifics from him, but thought I would ask here too.

 

[Dave Carney]

They level the building, probably with the spinning laser gizmo, then you bring in the fill, limestone screenings or similar depending on where you are, then you compact that fill. There is no point in trying to get it too perfect at this stage (removing the sod).

 

[Garage5.9]

If you can rent a trimble laser you can set grade perfectly

 

[sberry]

I would want to know where my elevations were going to be and that it isnt too low, it takes more fill than people realize and have seen more than one have water run in.

 

[cyamaha2007]

they will set the barn high and you will use the skirt board as a form to hold the fill and concrete in. I find doing it this way is easier and faster.

 

[oilslick]

I just did this and I am no pro, I just used asked steer and peeled off 8 to 10 inches of topsoil, this gave me an unlevel site I didn't care, we drilled the holes 4' down from original grade and when we set the grade board or rat wall whichever you call it we used a transit level to get it set so the lowest corner was still a few inches above original grade lowest spot. I hope this makes sense to you but bottom line is that the builder sets the floor height he will like a level base but it is actually not necessary to bring in fill until after the building is up!

 

[Dave Maxwell]

My build shows all of the prep work. Can't figure out how to link it though. They set post level and went of highest elevation and brought building up from there. Allowing water run off away from building. I need six inches more fill on top of the 100 ton I already put in

 

[wedge40]

I learned a lesson with my pole barn build..
If you know ahead of time how much your base height needs to be make sure the skirt board is placed high enough.
example. 2" of compacted material(gravel), 2" of EPS if you're going to put in radiant heat, and 4"-5" of concrete. Thats 8"-9" below where they plan for the top of the concrete. If they are putting in door then they will place them where they think the concrete will come up to, or pretty close.

Just my :2cents:

 

[NUTTSGT]

I would want to know where my elevations were going to be and that it isnt too low, it takes more fill than people realize and have seen more than one have water run in.

I'd agree, you don't want water coming in your new garage. Stone is cheap.

 

[Old Gas Nut]

I just did this and I am no pro, I just used asked steer and peeled off 8 to 10 inches of topsoil, this gave me an unlevel site I didn't care, we drilled the holes 4' down from original grade and when we set the grade board or rat wall whichever you call it we used a transit level to get it set so the lowest corner was still a few inches above original grade lowest spot. I hope this makes sense to you but bottom line is that the builder sets the floor height he will like a level base but it is actually not necessary to bring in fill until after the building is up!

This is what I was hoping I could do. And yes, grading the ground away from the garage is something I have planned from the get go. I wanted to make sure there is no water coming in under the garage door.

 

[RTcat]

I know when I had Cleary put up my pole shed, the salesman I worked with came out with his level and we decided where the top of the ring board would be. They build from that point, and the homeowner grades to that point.

It's easier to scrape off all your top soil before they start building. If you (or whoever is doing your excavation) has time you can get it somewhat level with your base material before they begin construction.

Good luck and have fun with your shed!

 

[tricountytrail]

MY PLAN So far
I will scrape off topsoil and level area and add stone to form a level and elevated starting point (basically a parking lot) apx 60’ x 60’ as I want parking and storage for my vehicles, around my 30’(or 42’ if town will let me do overhang) x 40’ pole barn. I will connect this with a driveway from an existing driveway with asphalt millings.
2 x 10 pressure treated skirt board about 1” above stone (install pvc and drains and plumbing and electrical as required) when done add and level and compact 1-2” stone then 2” foam insulation around and under perimeter. Vapor Barrier then staple pex then down and finally 4” concrete. Concrete floor should be 2-3” under skirt board. Garage doors and entry doors finished at top of concrete minus ½”-1” for clearance on doors.

Any Thoughts?

 

[lakeroadster]

I would want to know where my elevations were going to be and that it isnt too low, it takes more fill than people realize and have seen more than one have water run in.

I'd agree, you don't want water coming in your new garage. Stone is cheap.

Wise input from sberry and NUTTSGT

Before you peel off the top soil you need to determine where you want the slab elevation. Minimum of 5" above the soil elevation is a good plan.

Problem is once you peel off the top soil it's often hard to tell what the original grade was.

What I did was drove a reference "pin" (steel stake) into the ground 20 feet away from the building proposed location before any excavation was done. I then painted it orange and using a laser level located a black stripe on the stake of where I wanted the barn slab top elevation was to be.

During the build the contractor kept saying.. "You want it that high?" and shaking his head during construction. He wanted it lower, less fill, less compaction, less work for him.

 

[TractorJeff]

For my grade project we left an old concrete slab in place about 20 feet away to use as reference for top of fill grade which puts the top of the concrete above that.

 

[rburke65]

Doze the top soil and save for final grade. Bring in stone or a base of your choice and grade to level. You now have a level, elevated, non muddy area from where to work. Easier to do this before you start the build than after.

 

[3rdgendslmech]

Lakeroadster brings up a real good point. You need a reference point to where you'll check your grade from. You check at that spot all the time, its a safe bet you'll be within an 1/8 of where you need to be.

Also since some of us here aren't pro engineers or landscapers, use some graph paper and different view to figure out how much fill you might need. Sometimes you might not need any fill at all. Draw a level line ( representing your concrete pad ) then work down from there. 4-6 inches of concrete, 2-4 inches of base, then your natural earth. You might not need any fill at all in some cases when there's a high spot that needs to be cut down and a low spot that needs filling. Draw it to scale also, meant to say that first.
Then there's a formula for calculating how many yards of fill you'll need just by using inches and converting it into cubic yards.
I'm in the same stage as OGN too. I roughly marked my corners of my posts with a grade stake. Measured up 12" and drew a line on all 4 corner markers. Then put a line level on to figure out where i was high and low at. My barn is 24X32 and I'm just gonna buy an old school magnified sight level, because well thats how my grandfather taught me how to shoot grades and I'm not spending a lot of money on a tool I'll probably only use one time.
Good Luck!!

 

[Hurricanoday]

I just had a 40x60 pole building put up and spent money on a good grading. If I had to do it again I would have left it alone. My spot was sloped front to back so a dozer brought in a lot of fill dirt to level it out. I had to had about 12-18in in one corner and about 6 on most of the low side or about half the building. (if that makes sense)

One problem was the poles have to be in "native soil" so doing the fill to level before the building was a mistake. On top of that the building is still 2in up in the back and about 8+" in the front so I am still going to have to bring in lots of fill. Already brought in 60 yards just to do the inside for the slab, not including around the outside of the building.

I didn't want to bring the back down to match the front due to drainage issues (like others have suggested) Also they are driving trucks, digging holes with the skid on my graded site.

If you site is close just take out the grass and backfill once they level the building. I'm no expert but what I would do again if I had known.

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlgP6uKv3xDFhxQPGzRbUtTv5JAH

 

[myredracer]

The vegetative "topsoil" material needs to be removed down to acceptable load bearing material and you don't always have a choice in how far down to go. A foot difference from one side to the other isn't much. Footings can be stepped as needed. Clear crushed gravel can be used as fill below a footing but should talk to an engineer. Sometimes a soil compaction test is required by a geotech engineer for foundations. Washed sand can be used for fill under a floor slab and will compact almost as hard as concrete with a plate compactor and is what I used under our 1800 sq. ft shop/garage. The sand didn't cost much and had to build it up about 2' on average. It's easier to remove all the overburden before a structure is erected but isn't mandatory.

I've used an inexpensive self-leveling laser level meant for indoor use for a lot of outside things including 1800 feet of fencing around our property. Very accurate. Only thing is the ones meant for indoor use need to be used after dark. Don't need to buy or rent a fancy builder's laser level. I have one like in the photo and it has served me well over the years and was only around $50 or so. You can drive a metal or wood stake into the ground somewhere as a reference elevation to work from.

 

[dttennant]

Has anybody ever built on un-level ground? I'm planning on constructing a pole barn (40 x 60) but my plot is 4-5 feet lower on the back side. I'd rather not plant the poles in fill, so I was thinking that I could just put in poles that are 4-5 feet taller, build the frame, then fill in later. Is this advisable? Any constructive comments would be appreciated. It would be great to hear from someone with a success story in doing it this way.

 

[77Birdman]

That's perfectly fine doing it that way. I am in the finishing stages of my new shop now and over 40' there is about a 3' drop in grade. I did the exact thing you are talking about. In my case it is better to add fill on the lower end than to cut the high side down. I had no other option.

 

[ddonhauser]

Be careful who you hire , I had Polebarn but in last fall on a slope, 5 foot drop..contractor said "No problem, he'd done this before" contract said he'd bring up to level with backfill.then gravel..Well he didn't scrap off topsoil, fill up slope with bankrun sand, then placed polebarn on the top..said You don't need to go into virgin soil as long as pole are 2 feet into the sand!! Did the whole thing, sand, pole barn and concrete floor in 3 days!! So I'd given him 1/3 before he started($8k)..I refused to give him the rest until he fixed it..now he's slapped a lein on to my property and threatening to sue me.. Had another company take a look, they said I need to dig out the lengthen the poles and put in a proper fill as the sand is eroding..what a frekin mess..any suggestions??

 

[lakeroadster]

Be careful who you hire , I had Polebarn but in last fall on a slope, 5 foot drop..contractor said "No problem, he'd done this before" contract said he'd bring up to level with backfill.then gravel..Well he didn't scrap off topsoil, fill up slope with bankrun sand, then placed polebarn on the top..said You don't need to go into virgin soil as long as pole are 2 feet into the sand!! Did the whole thing, sand, pole barn and concrete floor in 3 days!! So I'd given him 1/3 before he started($8k)..I refused to give him the rest until he fixed it..now he's slapped a lein on to my property and threatening to sue me.. Had another company take a look, they said I need to dig out the lengthen the poles and put in a proper fill as the sand is eroding..what a frekin mess..any suggestions??

Man.. that *****. Sorry to read you are being put through this.

Get a lawyer and sue the contractor for money to demo the existing barn and build a new one. The contractor didn't build the barn correctly, it's all on him. No fault of yours.