Lift Oopsie At Work....

[neel2008]

So....I work at a small rural shop, we have two lifts, an old baseplate challenger (copyright on the tag says 1947) lol and a "newer" Worth 15k......Well you can put anything on the old challenger and the weak link on it is the motor....If you put a F350 7.3 4x4 ex cab long bed on it and has trouble getting it up (for lack of a better term...)well that is apparently not the case on the newer worth....We had a International 4700 landscaping/short side dump truck on it that we figured weighed around 12k or so on it and this happened.....


Was fun to figure out how we were going to get it down....This next pic has our wrecker under it. Another 4700 International.....the bed of the wrecker is 4 foot off the ground and the tires of the other truck are still over a foot away....


Decided we then would probably not be able to get that truck off our wrecker very well....if even move the wrecker loaded like that....we wern't going to catch the front tires of the truck with the wrecker bed either....So I had the idea of asking a customer that we do a lot of work for if we could borrow their "big trailer" and they said it would be ok....So we drove to a nearby lot and got their F450 dump truck and dually tandem 24k rated trailer and took it over there and backed it under....The bed on it was about 3 foot from the tires of the truck....So it was either jack/block/repeat the truck down to the trailer or....what I thought would be safer which was jack/block the trailer up to the truck, chain truck to trailer and jack it all back down again, we ended up doing that....with a couple rail road jacks, some screw jacks....and ALOT of 6x6 cribbing....Sorry no pics of that....When we had the trailer up under the wheels of the truck, we decided to cheat a little and throw a chain around the cylinder and let the lift down a couple inches....(had to go up an inch or so to release the locks....which explains this pic....


and here it is with the truck off


Now that cylinder had been seeping a little for a while and the lift does raise a little bit unevenly. I wonder if that side had been doing more work than the other side for a while, since that side leaked and the other side did not....What happened was it raised fine and we set it on the locks with the large jackstands on either end of the truck....went to raise the lift to get it off the locks and the truck started to go down as the pump was running....that's when I saw what was happening to the ram.... We have tried to adjust the cables to get it to lift evenly and set the locks evenly but it doesn't work, we can do one, than the other and it does not help it. Im wondering if the columns are a little uneven causing that side to work too hard....

 

[LXCam]

Holy ****!, now that's pucker factor right there.

 

[neel2008]

Holy ****!, now that's pucker factor right there.

you can say that again....I backed away from the lift very quickly and got the boss man....

 

[zkling]

Glad to hear no one was hurt, or so it sounded that way.

 

[neel2008]

Glad to hear no one was hurt, or so it sounded that way.

Yea by the time we got the truck on the ground it took all day but I told the boss man, hey at least no one died and it was a "free" extraction. lol Haven't got the bill on having the cylinder rebuilt though....

 

[alan_3301]

Damn! I have seen lift arms bent, but never the piston rod. That is crazy.
Good job figuring out how to get it down safely.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'd say you got pretty darn lucky.

 

[oilslick]

nice work! that **** scares me.

 

[HOTFR8]

That is one reason I say you should put a truck over a pit and not up on a hoist.

 

[neel2008]

If we had a pit that would have been an option. lol could have just done it on the ground anyway....but the lift "should" have held it fine.....Had to do a clutch in a 1 ton dump truck yesterday.....would have been nice to have the big lift instead of on the ground....aw well....it's how I always used to do it/how I still do it at home. lol

 

[srmofo]

Maybe next time you'll check the door placard for the gross weight instead of guessing?

 

[MayhemMOORE]

Glad no one was injured and there was no catastrophic failure. I'm a bit leery of lifts now after what happened to me at work. I worked on refueling trucks and we have an in floor lift capable of lifting a fully loaded truck, just shy of 70k lbs. The controls are near one end and the hydraulics run under the floor to the rear of the lift and out to each cylinder. Well I had a loaded truck on, tank on the end I was at by the controls, and went to lift as usual. Got up about a foot, not far enough to catch the first set of locks, and the high pressure hose burst! Sprayed fluid everywhere and the end of the lift I was at came crashing down, but not quite all the way, and the other end stayed put. Was definitely interesting backing the truck off. Thankfully everyone but me was well clear of it and no one was injured. Makes me think twice now before lifting a loaded truck and walking under.

 

[75toolman]

Maybe next time you'll check the door placard for the gross weight instead of guessing?

How would that help?

 

[sands35]

Maybe next time you'll check the door placard for the gross weight instead of guessing?

How would that help?

so you don't put something too heavy on it? maybe? perhaps?

Good thing no one got hurt.

 

[liliysdad]

so you don't put something too heavy on it? maybe? perhaps?

Good thing no one got hurt.

GVWR has nothing to do with what a vehicle weighs.

 

[JakeKohl]

Your engineering was sound on the recovery - and good idea with the chain around the cylinder. However, an uneven lift is not likely the culprit. For the most part, both sides will be supporting the same weight unless the vehicle is severely tilted and then the low side will be carrying slightly more. An uneven lift is usually the fault of an uneven flow of hydraulic fluid or something wrong with the equalization system. If one side were literally lifting more weight, the vehicle would be incredibly off balance and the lift would be unusable.

What does surprise me a little is that that hydraulic cylinder shaft bent that far and didn't break (thankfully). I don't have much of a hydraulic background but I thought the rod should be a thoroughly hardened shaft...if it were hardened, it should break before it bent that far. If it wasn't properly hardened, it would be considerably weaker.

 

[hh76]

Maybe next time you'll check the door placard for the gross weight instead of guessing?

Would that give the weight of all the add on equipment?

 

[avc8130]

I guess the amount that arm bent was the difference between safety stops? The carriage couldn't have "fallen" to bend any further than 1 safety if the stops were working.

Any chance the carriage got hung up and couldn't slide and that is why the piston bent?

Did the operator notice the rod was bending or did the lift start straining?

That's some scary stuff. I'd be scared to get under that lift again with just a replacement of the same component.

I don't think Worth is ALI certified. I WAS strongly considering their lifts.

ac

 

[Mr Worth]

we figured weighed around 12k or so on it and this happened.....???????

1)When dealing with big trucks why would you not weigh the vehiucle to make sure what it weighs?

2)So looking at that cylinder ...I'd say that the lift "might" have been overloaded!

3)Why not replace the cylinder after a situation like this instead of patching and creating possibly another dangerous scenario?
So knowing that the cylinder was seeping causing the lift to work harder through a "bypass" you guys just chose to keep running it?

4)Those are not the Factory pic up pads that came with the lift either!!!!
The factory pads are 5 1'2" X 5 1/2" 8 sided with the 4 primary corners turned up and rubber for no slip!!!

5)Was the lift purchased new or used?

What else it not factory????

What is the name of the shop and I will check factory call records if you would like?

Thank you.

 

[oilfieldtrash4]

Your engineering was sound on the recovery - and good idea with the chain around the cylinder. However, an uneven lift is not likely the culprit. For the most part, both sides will be supporting the same weight unless the vehicle is severely tilted and then the low side will be carrying slightly more. An uneven lift is usually the fault of an uneven flow of hydraulic fluid or something wrong with the equalization system. If one side were literally lifting more weight, the vehicle would be incredibly off balance and the lift would be unusable.

What does surprise me a little is that that hydraulic cylinder shaft bent that far and didn't break (thankfully). I don't have much of a hydraulic background but I thought the rod should be a thoroughly hardened shaft...if it were hardened, it should break before it bent that far. If it wasn't properly hardened, it would be considerably weaker.

It was either sub par metal that wasn't hardened correctly or very high quality steel that is hard and somewhat flexible.

 

[volvo]

..
That truck looks larger than 12K? Is it just me or dose truck look like it is way forward of center, let alone balanced for lifting? Lift is in overload bind???

 

[stingry]

What does surprise me a little is that that hydraulic cylinder shaft bent that far and didn't break (thankfully). I don't have much of a hydraulic background but I thought the rod should be a thoroughly hardened shaft...if it were hardened, it should break before it bent that far. If it wasn't properly hardened, it would be considerably weaker.

The LAST thing you want in an hydraulic ram is a brittle hardened shaft! I have been around farming all my life and we use a lot of cylinders, I have never seen one break, just bend. I have seen rams straightened and they work just fine afterwards. The chrome plating on the shaft provides a "hard" surface for wear prevention and corrosion protection.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Diesel Dan]

What does surprise me a little is that that hydraulic cylinder shaft bent that far and didn't break (thankfully). I don't have much of a hydraulic background but I thought the rod should be a thoroughly hardened shaft...if it were hardened, it should break before it bent that far. If it wasn't properly hardened, it would be considerably weaker.

Hydraulic cylinder rods are case hardened(only the surface), chrome plated and have a soft core. If you look closely at that rod the surface should be cracked. I've seen cylinder rods bend more than that and not break. Now it is possible that it wasn't properly case hardened or was bad metal but that is a part Worth would have purchased from a supplier.

neel2008,
Truck scales are all over the place.
What did it scale in at?

I watched a guy bend a truck in half because he "thought" it looked balanced and point loaded the frame in the wrong spot.

Hopefully the results of this failure will be determined and passed along to us.

 

[porschedude996TT]

Optimistic view is the Right Side Cylinder looks good!

Hard to believe that the Hydraulic Pump Limited the pressure with a relief valve to prevent strucual failure. WTF???

 

[avc8130]

Optimistic view is the Right Side Cylinder looks good!

Hard to believe that the Hydraulic Pump Limited the pressure with a relief valve to prevent strucual failure. WTF???

Exactly. The hydraulic pressure is directly related to the weight being lifted. The same premise Mohawk uses to do their "weight" gauge could be used with a relief valve to prevent lifting more than rated capacity.

A bent ram like that looks to me like the carriage bound and stop raising. Or the buckling moment became too great as the ram became long.

Either way, if the overall weight of the truck was too great a simple blow off valve would have saved a lot of hassle before the truck was even off the ground.

ac

 

[oilfieldtrash4]

Hydraulic cylinder rods are case hardened(only the surface), chrome plated and have a soft core. If you look closely at that rod the surface should be cracked. I've seen cylinder rods bend more than that and not break. Now it is possible that it wasn't properly case hardened or was bad metal but that is a part Worth would have purchased from a supplier.

neel2008,
Truck scales are all over the place.
What did it scale in at?

I watched a guy bend a truck in half because he "thought" it looked balanced and point loaded the frame in the wrong spot.

Hopefully the results of this failure will be determined and passed along to us.

Why would they case harden a cylinder rod?

 

[JakeKohl]

we figured weighed around 12k or so on it and this happened.....???????

1)When dealing with big trucks why would you not weigh the vehiucle to make sure what it weighs?

2)So looking at that cylinder ...I'd say that the lift "might" have been overloaded!

3)Why not replace the cylinder after a situation like this instead of patching and creating possibly another dangerous scenario?
So knowing that the cylinder was seeping causing the lift to work harder through a "bypass" you guys just chose to keep running it?

4)Those are not the Factory pic up pads that came with the lift either!!!!
The factory pads are 5 1'2" X 5 1/2" 8 sided with the 4 primary corners turned up and rubber for no slip!!!

5)Was the lift purchased new or used?

What else it not factory????

What is the name of the shop and I will check factory call records if you would like?

Thank you.

Hmmm...one post wonder...guessing you are either with the factory or a dealer.

 

[rust buster]

I'm guessing he may be the owner, and if so, we'd all like to hear his thoughts

 

[sberry]

The weight guess on the truck was probably pretty fair and this would be pretty sensitive to good rigging practice but this little hoist is too small to be running heavy *** trucks up and down on all the time. In a perfect world it will lift 15 but I wouldn't want to do it every day, this needs the next class of hoist.

 

[walrus]

In a perfect world it will lift 15 but I wouldn't want to do it every day, this needs the next class of hoist.

You could abuse below ground lifts but above ground, not so much. A sliding front post, fixed rear post below ground lift is what you want for larger PUs from what I've seen. Its what most fleet outfits used, telephone company, electric company etc

 

[JakeKohl]

The LAST thing you want in an hydraulic ram is a brittle hardened shaft! I have been around farming all my life and we use a lot of cylinders, I have never seen one break, just bend. I have seen rams straightened and they work just fine afterwards. The chrome plating on the shaft provides a "hard" surface for wear prevention and corrosion protection.

Cheers
Steve

Ahh...good point. As the other poster mentioned, the hardened exterior of the shaft must be what I was thinking of.

 

[BigE]

An IHC 4700 has the capacity to be upwards of 30,000 lbs GVWR. I imagine that was an under CDL application so it was likely not over 26,000 lbs. However, that is still a large difference from the OP's original estimate.

The door sticker indicates the maximum allowable weight. Yeah, people can overload the truck, but it would at least give the shop an idea of where the weight actually falls.

 

[djjsr]

What happens next? Do manufacturers of lifts rebuild and recertify? Or do you just replace the cylinder, look around for cracked welds and hope for the best?

I don't think I would want to use that thing unless someone qualified got involved in the repair.

 

[liliysdad]

An IHC 4700 has the capacity to be upwards of 30,000 lbs GVWR. I imagine that was an under CDL application so it was likely not over 26,000 lbs. However, that is still a large difference from the OP's original estimate.

The door sticker indicates the maximum allowable weight. Yeah, people can overload the truck, but it would at least give the shop an idea of where the weight actually falls.

Again, GVWR has nothing to do with what the vehicle weighs. A 4700 will weight right at 12k lbs curb weight, give or take depending on options and accessories.

 

[Old Moparz]

First off, WOW! That's some scare & good that it didn't fail completely & drop the truck.

I'm guessing he may be the owner, and if so, we'd all like to hear his thoughts

Owner or dealer, it would be a huge mistake for anyone to diagnose, comment, or try to guess what caused a serious problem like this based on an internet forum post with photos. I know I wouldn't, & would want to see it myself or have someone qualified inspect it for me in person.

My own guess is that it sure seems like overloading the lift is the culprit.

 

[NHBandit]

..
That truck looks larger than 12K? Is it just me or dose truck look like it is way forward of center, let alone balanced for lifting? Lift is in overload bind???

Hard to tell from a couple of pics but this was my first thought. It looks like the truck is way too far forward of the ballance point. I do realize that you're limited to how far the lift arms will extend outward to meet the frame rails but in that case it might have been best to do the job on the ground. Please excuse me for being an armchair QB. I may very well be way off but I'm going by what I see in the pics and my years of experience doing this **** for a living. That truck may very well weigh exactly 12k lbs buttt... if 8k of it is towards the front of the lift & the other 4k is to the rear you ARE going to have a failure.

 

[Ron Fletcher]

Either way........that'll be blue tomorrow!! Ouch!!

 

[Mr Worth]

Worth was manufacturing an testing lifts before there was a so called certification.

Still no word on weather the lift was new or used and I know by the photo that I can see AFTERMAKET NON ORIGINAL PARTS.

If any potential buyer wants to call Worth for more info feel free to do so 800-433-7016.

Be Safe ---- Be Safe ---- Be Safe

 

[Mr Worth]

All Worth 2 and 4 Post Lifts and rolling jacks are MADE IN THE USA.

Thank you!

 

[Old Moparz]

I was curious about what an International 4700 actually was so I googled it. It's a lot like the rack body truck we have at work, which isn't exactly small & light. On one website, a landscaper said his International 4700 is 11,000 pounds. Another site has a guy who had a 9000 pound box put on it & said his grand total is 20,000 +/- pounds. So, the actual weight of this truck appears right around 11,000 +/- pounds bare.

Add whatever for the body on it & it's definitely over the 11,000 pounds & approaching the lift capacity pretty easy. My heaviest vehicle at home is my Dodge Ram & weighs just under 5500 pounds. I've had it on my lift once & the lift is rated at 9000 pounds so I wasn't even close to the limit & never worried. All my cars are under 4000 pounds so they will never be an issue, but I'd want to know for sure the "actual" weight of anything I am going to be under so I don't get squashed like a bug.