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Lifted the garage, now what?

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After blowing over $200. so far on materials and two weeks of work (with a chronic illness) and much worry, what the city would think about, or worse, make me tear it all out for a redo, I had the good sense to inquire of the town's bldg. inspector. He came and took a look, and said mine was a reconstruction and didn't require a permit (the cost of which have doubled) and applies mostly to unscrupulous contractors. The issue of permits & standards is very confusing, and the inspectors seem to have some discretion.

As it turns out the amount of concrete to pour the required 8" x 8" curb footing along my pad is less than half a yard, and I would have saved a lot by doing it according to city code from the very beginning, so I tore out my old work and dug a trench and will be installing forms and having a truck pour the day's left-overs, adding a sill and calling it done.
 
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Here are some photos of my rework, ready for pour. The trench will require about .5 yard to fill. Studs cut to fit to accomodate sill, will require jacking another couple inches once anchor bolts are installed.
 

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48RON54

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I was surprised to see you updating this topic after all the "you are building a death trap that will surely end civilization as we know it" posts from others......

Coming along nicely. I know nothing about foundations nor slabs but it looks good to me. I don't think I'd have the huevos to jack up a building like that but you sure did.
 

volleyball

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Is your neighbor missing a chain link fence?

I wonder if it is strong enough? I think a few pieces of rebar made into a box would be a wise investment.
 

My Old Tools

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After blowing over $200. so far on materials and two weeks of work (with a chronic illness) and much worry, what the city would think about, or worse, make me tear it all out for a redo, I had the good sense to inquire of the town's bldg. inspector. He came and took a look, and said mine was a reconstruction and didn't require a permit (the cost of which have doubled) and applies mostly to unscrupulous contractors. The issue of permits & standards is very confusing, and the inspectors seem to have some discretion.

As it turns out the amount of concrete to pour the required 8" x 8" curb footing along my pad is less than half a yard, and I would have saved a lot by doing it according to city code from the very beginning, so I tore out my old work and dug a trench and will be installing forms and having a truck pour the day's left-overs, adding a sill and calling it done.

Sounds familiar.....
 
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I'm having some difficulty arranging for a truck. I watched a Youtube video of an old guy mixing a bag of concrete in a plastic bag, looked easy, so I called Menards; they said it takes 3 - 60lb bags to make a cubic foot, my trench is roughly 14 cu ft, that's close to 40 bags-- crazy. I'm afraid it would take too long and be set before I could get the anchor bolts in.
 

sublimate

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For me it's always been closer to 2 bags per cu ft - but you're still talking about ~30 bags.

Homedepot around here rents a 6 cuft mixer.
 
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volleyball

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3- 60 lb =180, 2 80 lb =160 so it is close.
Yeah, I don't think anyone is going to bring you a 1/2 yard. Too much work. Most have a minimum that I don't think you are willing to pay for.
Hire an unemployed concrete knowledgeable person as a day person to help you. Concrete isn't something you can come back and touch up easily.
A hoe and a wheel barrow or mixing tray will suffice for such a small amount.
 

borderstaff

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Go to Harbor Freight. Buy a cheap cement mixer: http://www.harborfreight.com/http-w...-2-half-cubic-ft-cement-mixer-67536-html.html Be sure to print out a 20% off coupon to knock another $40 off the $209 price. Get a friend to help mix the concrete and pour it. It will be quick and easy - I did this when I put in fence posts. THE BEST PART: sell the cement mixer on craigslist for $180 when your done. Your back and arms will thank you vs. mixing it all by hand.
 

TractorJeff

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Did you get this in writing?
Quote"He came and took a look, and said mine was a reconstruction and didn't require a permit (the cost of which have doubled) and applies mostly to unscrupulous contractors. The issue of permits & standards is very confusing, and the inspectors seem to have some discretion.
"
Farm Auction buy an old 1/4yd for $50 or a 1/3yd for $100 cement mixer!
I poured 45 bags in 14" diameter pier holes for a deck a couple of years ago.
And YES!
Your body will Thank You in the end.
Sold Mixer on Craigslist for $50 more than I paid for it!
 

mtmgtz

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Is your neighbor missing a chain link fence?

I wonder if it is strong enough? I think a few pieces of rebar made into a box would be a wise investment.

The chain link fence in the concrete is to keep the rats out, of course.... :eyecrazy:

Seriously though, $15 worth of rebar would be well worth it. That fence wire is just a joke. In the end, you're going to spend more money on this whole thing trying to figure out ways to spend less money.
 
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volleyball:

I called a local contractor who pours sidewalks, they may get back to me tomorrow with .5 yard of left-overs. I could slosh 40 separate bags in a slightly larger plastic bag and pour each one myself but my concern is it would be setting up before I could install the anchor bolts. Not gonna buy a mixer for this one job. A young contractor did say he'd do the job for $300. but I did most of the work already, but for the mixing & pouring.

Tractor Jeff:

No, in fact he denied all responsibility. At least my neighbor who works for the enforcement division, hasn't reported me. He even offered to source a contractor but they've since gone out of business. The notion that a person should need to pay a municipality for a permit to maintain their own property is just BS to me, but I'm from the older generation.

mtmgtz:

Why is rebar better than fencing? Seriously, it's just for the concrete to anchor to and give it strength
 

Beemer533

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The fencing won't necessarily hurt anything, but it isn't giving you any tensile strength..

I would compare the chain link to mesh; it may keep your concrete together, but it isn't adding any strength.

You are essentially trying to build a bond beam, but without rebar it just won't work...

Basic description: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_beam
 
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volleyball

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Yeah, get the rebar. solid steel and concrete are so much more together.
If you have a source from a guy, that is great. Just make sure it is not old and watered down. That will be worse.
You can do it yourself with a friend. You pour a stiffer mix and work from one side. You need to then have one guy start the next batch while the other one levels the mix and adds the bolts. you work your way across like a block layer will do 3 courses and move down, repeat. A large wheelbarrow is way better than a pail.
This is summer, don't you know someone with kids that would like to earn some extra money for a days work. If you use help negotiate the job pay, not an hourly rate.
It may not hurt you to do a training pour. Figure out where a little concrete would be nice. Maybe a walkway and hone your skills on that before you take on something critical.
And are you strong enough to carry a hundred pounds several times in a couple of hours?
Don't want to harm yourself.
 

Doug1

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I had a similar issue several years back. I just jacked it up, dug some footers and mixed in ready mix concrete with anchors to bolt the 4x4 metal plates to...
CopyofDSC00148.jpg


but now that you got the footers ready to pour, just roll with it when you can get a truck.
 
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Beemer533:

OK, you convinced me to engage in more commerce though I honestly don't know why, as I do believe the link fence would do the same thing as far as holding the concrete together. Cost of rebar: $25.00
 

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OP
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Poured the footing today, 23.5 bags. Used a large polythene bag to mix the concrete, sloshed it around. By the end it had a few holes/was leaking but got it done. Tore up the lawn a bit. I have to say that using a bag makes it easy. They sell bags for such purpose on ebay, here's a vid:


Here are the pics. Now must wait a few days to a week to set the sill. There's a buried electrical wire bringing power to the garage, must disconnect at the box to get a few more inches of elevation.
 

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p_mori7

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Looking GOOD !

First time I see that concrete bag thing...pretty neat...will have to remember that the next time we need to do some concrete work up at the hunting camp !

Suggestion: Since your concrete is wider than the sill, it looks like it will most likely stick out past the siding. That may lead to a bit of water seeping into the garage between the sill and the concrete you just poured. Since it also looks like you will be fixing the lower portion of your siding once the new sill is on, you may want to consider some flashing to direct any water towards the lawn rather than risking it pooling up on the concrete.

Of course, if a bit of water seepage doesn't matter, just lay a good thick bead of caulk and hope for the best !
 

volleyball

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A sill gasket is what you need. They come in rolls matched to the width of the sill board.

I agree it is coming along. Now that you have mastered one side, you'll be itching to do the rest.
 
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DEnd

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Did you get this in writing?
Quote"He came and took a look, and said mine was a reconstruction and didn't require a permit (the cost of which have doubled) and applies mostly to unscrupulous contractors. The issue of permits & standards is very confusing, and the inspectors seem to have some discretion.


Repair work generally doesn't require a building permit in residential construction.


Guestimate: For your structure the rebar may be a bit overkill, but without doing soil tests it's impossible to know for sure. The cost for your rebar being a lot less than a soil test, it is the cost effective solution. The reason for rebar is to increase the strength of the concrete in the pulling direction (Tension). Concrete is very strong in the pushing direction (compression). In a foundation if you have a weak spot in the bearing soil the concrete will want to deflect at that point. Being weak in tension the concrete will want to crack, once it cracks it no longer has continuous bearing across the soil. By adding rebar we strengthen the structure in tension, this allows the concrete to deflect and still provide continuous bearing on the soil.

The fence will not do what the rebar has done. The concept is sound on the surface, but there are a few possible problems. The main one is that the smallish holes in the fencing make it difficult to ensure there are no air pockets when the concrete is poured. Air pockets (even very small ones) significantly weaken concrete. Another is that you aren't putting in as much steel. If you were to put the same amount in as is in the rebar and were able to ensure that there were no air pockets it would most likely be stronger than the rebar, but like I said earlier that would be rather difficult to do.

I agree with Volleyball about the sill gasket. It works as a capillary break. Concrete and wood both wick water like a kerosene lamp wick wicks up kerosene to provide fuel for the lamp. This is called capillary action. The concrete will wick up water from the soil. Sill seals are made out of a non-porous material thus stopping the capillary action. This in turn keeps the wood sill dry which prevents rot and to an extent termites. If you have any plastic that should work as a capillary break, but probably won't prevent water intrusion from minor flooding.
 

bczygan

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After blowing over $200. so far on materials and two weeks of work (with a chronic illness) and much worry, what the city would think about, or worse, make me tear it all out for a redo, I had the good sense to inquire of the town's bldg. inspector. He came and took a look, and said mine was a reconstruction and didn't require a permit (the cost of which have doubled) and applies mostly to unscrupulous contractors. The issue of permits & standards is very confusing, and the inspectors seem to have some discretion.

As it turns out the amount of concrete to pour the required 8" x 8" curb footing along my pad is less than half a yard, and I would have saved a lot by doing it according to city code from the very beginning, so I tore out my old work and dug a trench and will be installing forms and having a truck pour the day's left-overs, adding a sill and calling it done.

You lucked out.

Your inspector gave you a gift, seriously!

ANY work that is structural, requires permits and inspections.

And that means work done to code, with deep foundations.

I'm sure you gave him the poor me speech, and he took pity.

Earlier, you commented about the need for permits to do work on your own property. A lot of people have this attitude, that they should have the right to do whatever they want to their property, after all, it's theirs, right? Well, not entirely. You have a legal obligation to do work to accepted practices and codes. And the permit process is to make sure you do. If we didn't have this system, people could build shacks, and we would end up with shanty towns like third world countries have. And you will live in this property for a finite number of years. After that it becomes someone else's problem. That's why we have standards and permits. Your ownership is not absolute. It is conditional.

Something needs to be said about the plastic bag mixing method. If you add enough water to make this work, you have too much water in the mix, and the strength of the concrete will be lessened. Concrete should be stiff. What you ended up with is a slurry with much less strength, although it will probably do for your temporary purposes. Another place where your half measures may work for you, but future owners, who have a right to expect approved construction methods, will be short changed. When you do sell, be sure to disclose what has been done, and how, so you aren't left liable.

Don't forget the sill seal between your concrete and treated sill plate.

The fact that your foundation is wider than the wall presents a problem that can be solved in 2 ways. One is to flash from under the wall sheathing, over the foundation, as mentioned by another poster. Another, and easier and better method, is to lay a course of small brick sized block. Locate these so that the outside edge is flush with the outside face of the studs. This will allow the siding to extend down over the sill plate and the face of these units, shedding water properly. It will also raise the garage an additional 2 1/2" above surrounding grade. I doubt you will do this though, as it is throwing money at the project.

Does the concrete level you now have get the sill plate above grade?


Have you calculated what will happen with the height of your garage door opening in relation with the new level of the building?

Bill
 
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OP
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The footing I poured is level with the pad which is level with the lawn or possibly slightly below. I know that's not the optimum situation; thought about adding a 4" curb for height but would have required more stud trimming and complicated the form work. As is, it will making cutting the lawn a bit easier, a footing even slightly below grade is still better better than the sill in the dirt, which is what I started with. Sill seal and treated lumber, a bit of flashing/apron should mitigate flooding which I hadn't noticed over past few years of winter/spring thaws.
 

volleyball

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Since you already messed up the grass, dig out some dirt and get the ground level down. Then reseed it and it will be the nicest part of your lawn.
 
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The Beagle has landed; well, sort of, still short a few screws, as my neighbor told me.
 

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volleyball

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Looking at the pic I see in the last what he meant. At first I was thinking that he knew you had a few loose screws.
Other than putting some support under the framing by the door, you can flash and side it.
 
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Volleyball:

Yes, I should have put formwork on the other side of the stud by the door, but I had to omit some footing to be able to access the buried cable in event of trouble or rewiring the garage. Have since filled the hole with pea gravel, still looks funny, maybe I'll put some brick edging.

I highly advise anyone not to work when too tired to see what's in front of you, because you will make mistakes.

Yes, my neighbor does think that.
 

Playwme

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You lucked out.

Your inspector gave you a gift, seriously!

ANY work that is structural, requires permits and inspections.

And that means work done to code, with deep foundations.

I'm sure you gave him the poor me speech, and he took pity.

Earlier, you commented about the need for permits to do work on your own property. A lot of people have this attitude, that they should have the right to do whatever they want to their property, after all, it's theirs, right? Well, not entirely. You have a legal obligation to do work to accepted practices and codes. And the permit process is to make sure you do. If we didn't have this system, people could build shacks, and we would end up with shanty towns like third world countries have. And you will live in this property for a finite number of years. After that it becomes someone else's problem. That's why we have standards and permits. Your ownership is not absolute. It is conditional.

Something needs to be said about the plastic bag mixing method. If you add enough water to make this work, you have too much water in the mix, and the strength of the concrete will be lessened. Concrete should be stiff. What you ended up with is a slurry with much less strength, although it will probably do for your temporary purposes. Another place where your half measures may work for you, but future owners, who have a right to expect approved construction methods, will be short changed. When you do sell, be sure to disclose what has been done, and how, so you aren't left liable.

Don't forget the sill seal between your concrete and treated sill plate.

The fact that your foundation is wider than the wall presents a problem that can be solved in 2 ways. One is to flash from under the wall sheathing, over the foundation, as mentioned by another poster. Another, and easier and better method, is to lay a course of small brick sized block. Locate these so that the outside edge is flush with the outside face of the studs. This will allow the siding to extend down over the sill plate and the face of these units, shedding water properly. It will also raise the garage an additional 2 1/2" above surrounding grade. I doubt you will do this though, as it is throwing money at the project.

Does the concrete level you now have get the sill plate above grade?


Have you calculated what will happen with the height of your garage door opening in relation with the new level of the building?

Bill

You must be a real hoot at parties Bill.

Good work guestimate. You saved tearing down a perfectly useable building, and it's now in much better shape than when you got it for minimum financial outlay. Nice thinking outside the box to achieve something that most people wouldn't even think of, let alone consider tackling.
 
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bczygan:

Yes I used sill seal, no caulk.

Everyone else:

Thank you for the good advice all; although I'm a senior, not above learning new things.
 

bczygan

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You must be a real hoot at parties Bill.

Good work guestimate. You saved tearing down a perfectly useable building, and it's now in much better shape than when you got it for minimum financial outlay. Nice thinking outside the box to achieve something that most people wouldn't even think of, let alone consider tackling.

What I did for a living is design buildings.

There are details in construction that have become standards because they solve problems that buildings have.

When an old building has deteriorated, to rehab it, you need to analyze how it failed and determine how to detail it so this doesn't happen again.

If you are going to go to as much trouble and expense as the OP, it isn't much more trouble to do it in a way that solves the original problems.

We live in a world of codes and rules and standard practices. If you are going to do less than that, you are making choices that you and others will have to live with.

I'm not saying the OP shouldn't have done less than codes require, that's his choice. I've just tried to help him make the best choices to keep the building dry and secure, within the minimal scope of work and budget he was willing to use.

Frankly, all construction is a balance between costs and needs. The OP could just as easily made a gravel foundation and set the structure on it without even securing the building to the ground. It would have probably served just fine. But the small additional cost of concrete and rebar and sill seal and anchor bolts adds a lot of function for little money.
 
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Actually for some know-it-alls on this board, my humble footing does meet local code, which is at least double the depth of the pad. It's a garage, not a sea-coast bunker. Will post finishing pics, for the heck of it.
 

Rock knocker

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You lucked out.

Your inspector gave you a gift, seriously!

ANY work that is structural, requires permits and inspections.

And that means work done to code, with deep foundations.

I'm sure you gave him the poor me speech, and he took pity.

Bill

Not true. Many jurisdictions, including major cities like Seattle, allow a lot of work to de done as a repair without permits or inspections. Often times a "Engineers Report to the City" will be required for apartment buildings and similar multiple story Type V buildings, but a permit is decidedly not required.

I would have not qualms to do the work that the OP did, in the open, without a permit and as a repair. I would not for a second be concerned with retribution from neighbors or the AHJ.
 

mdbeck1

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Not true. Many jurisdictions, including major cities like Seattle, allow a lot of work to de done as a repair without permits or inspections. Often times a "Engineers Report to the City" will be required for apartment buildings and similar multiple story Type V buildings, but a permit is decidedly not required.

I would have not qualms to do the work that the OP did, in the open, without a permit and as a repair. I would not for a second be concerned with retribution from neighbors or the AHJ.

It's funny how much the building codes differ between the different areas of the country. Not to mention between countries.
 

Kevin54

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Actually for some know-it-alls on this board, my humble footing does meet local code, which is at least double the depth of the pad. It's a garage, not a sea-coast bunker. Will post finishing pics, for the heck of it.

The last I read this thread, I believe that in the first post you introduced yourself, then asked if anyone had any suggestions.

Greetings All.

I bought a property a few years back with a 1 car garage with vinyl siding that was sinking into the lawn. It was built off the pad and nothing connecting it to the pad in any way. The sill just sat in the dirt and thanks to mother nature's elements, rotted away, as were the stud ends that sat upon. The garage had a sway-back in the middle because of this.

My builder buddy gave me some 2x12's to use instead of plywood, he said to just screw them into the studs where they rest on the pad, which he said is adequate to support the garage because it's relatively light as garages go.

Do any of you experienced folks have suggestions or advice I should consider to avoid future regrets?

Now since you got ideas, and suggestions, you are getting sarcastic and calling ones that gave you good suggestions...."know-it-alls"? And you'll post pics just for the "heck of it".

If you were so **** sure of yourself going in to the project, why ask anyone on here in the first place. I'm fairly certain that the members were only trying to help you out so you won't have future problems. I see that you haven't been around for very long, so maybe you don't understand how the members operate on the site. Usually when a newbie shows up and introduces himself, or herself, most members, if they see the thread will welcome said new member. Then if the new member has any questions, quite a few will jump in and give suggestions mostly based on their own personal experience. Given the number of members on this site, and the regions of either the States, up in Canada, or ones across the water somewhere, the replies, which are based on personal experiences or acquaintances of the members friends, may vary considerable from one region to another.

And seeing that you went ahead and did what you wanted to do as far as shoring up your garage, and any opinions given out, at least to you, have no merit anyways......I'm fairly certain that it makes you the know-it-all, and not the members. But please, entertain us with your finished pics, just for the heck of it.
 
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