Liftmaster 3800P malfunctioning

[brg2290]

Hello.
I have been having a problem with my opener, a Liftmaster 3800P, not maintaining limits. Several weeks ago, in searching this forum, I came across a post pointing to replacement of the Absolute Encoder as a possible solution. I did so, but the problem persisted. I subsequently replaced the logic board. This did not correct the problem either.

Symptoms - After setting the limits, when I press the remote, I can hear the opener trying to work, but initially it's like a clutch slipping on a car, or like the gearbox is filled with molasses. The door begins to rise in slow motion (or sometimes remains momentarily motionless), and the unit sounds like it's under great load. After a second or two, it achieves normal speed, but, because of the minimal initial travel, when it completes the up cycle, it stops 6" or so below the initial top set point. When I close the door, it hits hard at the bottom and cycles back to open (presumably because the bottom limit is trying to find it's initial setting but is inaccurate because of the lower top starting point?).

General questions: What is causing the unit to start but not engage immediately and properly? Is there a fix, or do I need a new opener? If I need a new opener, is there a jackshaft style opener that you would recommend over the 3800P? My door is quite heavy - a Dalton (9600?) - 18' wide.

Looking forward to your thoughts.
Gary

 

[pattenp]

See if this may be the problem....
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=207656

 

[gnpenning]

The first thing is pull the release and feel how the door opens by hand. Any issues here need to be addressed first.

Check the above. Also the coupler to the spring shaft. If the set bolts are a little loose you will get some slippage.

Report back letting us know what you find.

As a side note, I've received more than one new encoder that was bad out of the box. In your case something else is causing the drag and slow start.

 

[brg2290]

See if this may be the problem....
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=207656

Thank you for this suggestion. I checked and tightened these set screws about a week ago (after the new encoder, before the new logic board). Unfortunately, this did not rectify the problem.

The first thing is pull the release and feel how the door opens by hand. Any issues here need to be addressed first.

Check the above. Also the coupler to the spring shaft. If the set bolts are a little loose you will get some slippage.

Report back letting us know what you find.

As a side note, I've received more than one new encoder that was bad out of the box. In your case something else is causing the drag and slow start.

With the release pulled, the door opens relatively smoothly. The door itself is pretty heavy, but this technique - opening and closing manually - is how I've been getting into and out of my garage the past few weeks.

Regarding the coupler, about a week ago I used a sharpee to mark both halves across the face in a straight line, then raised and lowered the door several times. When I rechecked, the reference marks were still lined up. As I said, this was a week ago...I will check for movement again this afternoon.

 

[Dave Nelson]

I had a similar issue a few years ago, turned out the torsion spring unwound slightly on the shaft, resetting the spring to the proper tension cured the problem.

 

[brg2290]

I had a similar issue a few years ago, turned out the torsion spring unwound slightly on the shaft, resetting the spring to the proper tension cured the problem.

Hello Dave. Thanks for this suggestion. Two years ago we had new torsion springs installed, and no adjustment has been made to them since then. The past couple of days I've been raising the door by actuating the opener and then giving it a two handed lift assist for about the first foot or 18 inches. With this assist, the limit settings have stayed intact. This would tend to support your theory.

With the opener disengaged, I have checked the door for balance and lift, but I don't have a lot of previous experience to go on. If I carefully balance the door about half way up, it will hold it's position unassisted, but it's pretty precarious - a slight movement up or down will negate the balance point. From closed, it requires a great deal of effort (a two hand press then alternating hand position from one door rib to the next and pushing fairly hard) to open the door without the opener. Once up, the door will stay in the up position.

So, I guess my questions are, how do you know if spring adjustment is required, and, if adjusted, how do you know when it is set properly?

For gnpenning, I checked my mark on the shaft in relation to the couplers, and it has not moved, so no slipping occurring there.

Gary

 

[gnpenning]

Gary, what size is the door? The new information helps with were to look next

Did the person who replaced the springs happen to paint a white line, which would give you a barbershop pole look when the door is down. If so starting at the fixed end count the number of full and partial turns. There should be one turn for each foot of door height plus I like to add a extra 1/2 turn for spring settling.

There is a good chance they didn't replace it with the correct size spring and may not have put in the correct number of winds.

The door if correctly balanced should not need hand over hand to raise and should hold easily in multiple positions.

 

[brg2290]

Gary, what size is the door? The new information helps with were to look next

Did the person who replaced the springs happen to paint a white line, which would give you a barbershop pole look when the door is down. If so starting at the fixed end count the number of full and partial turns. There should be one turn for each foot of door height plus I like to add a extra 1/2 turn for spring settling.

There is a good chance they didn't replace it with the correct size spring and may not have put in the correct number of winds.

The door if correctly balanced should not need hand over hand to raise and should hold easily in multiple positions.

The door is a Wayne Dalton 9600 - 18' x 8'.

Yes, there is a painted line on each of the two springs. One spring shows 6 full rotations, the other spring shows 7. From what you wrote this would appear to be inadequate. Also, what you wrote aligns with the recommendation in the 9600 door manual - 8 3/4 turns per spring. But the door manual recommendation is in general, and not for a specific spring / springs.

The replacement springs were installed 2 years ago by Precision Door Service. Can you tell from the part numbers if they are correct for this door / size?

Part#47078
234-35 Green Precision Premium Quality Torsion Spring Powder Coated and Weather Resistant. Heavy Duty 33,000 Plus Cycles.

Part#47077
218-31 Green Precision Premium Quality Torsion Spring Powder Coated and Weather Resistant. Heavy Duty 33,000 Plus Cycles.

5 year warranty on Parts and Labor

 

[gnpenning]

The drums for a standard lift door are designed to raise the door one foot per rotation. As the door raises more of the door weight changes for being vertical to horizontal. This means the springs are lifting less the more the door opens, and needing less tension is needed. So by the time the door is all the way up the spring should have used almost all its energy, the extra half turn will keep some tension on the cables so they don't come off the drums when you go to close the door.

So, you don't have enough turns on your springs. Not knowing the weight of your door it's hard to guess as to the springs they used. I'm going to make a couple GUESSES. One 234_35. My guess is that is .2347 wire 35" long. The 218 31 is .218 wire 31"long. As a rule we never mix wire sizes. Both left and right will be the same wire size.and the same length. Not sure were the stock numbers came from, if they bought those per made or what.

We buy springs as snakes which is 10' and cut to length.if I need something odd ball I can overnight it in the correct size. Those sizes I stock.

You may want to call them and see if that's part of the warranty.

 

[brg2290]

gnpenning, thank you for all of the above. I will call the repair company today and ask about what appears to be different spring choices and, if this is the case, I'll question them on why that choice was made. I will also tell them that the spring tension is in need of adjustment, and see if a visit is covered by warranty.

 

[Dave Nelson]

Several years ago a friend called and said the torsion spring on his 3800 was broken. When we got on ladders to examine we found that the other (good spring) appeared that it was never wound on the shaft. The original installer (no longer in business) wrote on top of the door jamb "31 turns" so we wound the good spring to that setting. After a couple 1/4 turn adjustments the door operated with no problems, still does today.

 

[brg2290]

Thanks to all who responded. Dave Nelson and gnpenning, thank you for honing in on the source of the problem. Your input suggested the springs may be in need of adjustment, mismatched or inadequate. A technician came today. We acutally spoke several hours prior to his arrival, and he questioned the size of the garage door. When I told him 18 x 8, he determined on the spot from reviewing the paperwork that the springs were undersized.

Upon arrival, he tested the door by hand lifting and remarked on the lack of spring assist. He took off the spring tension and used a scale to weigh the door - 241 pounds. The previously installed spring set was rated for 207. He had the correct springs on the truck and replaced them, then hand tested again. The door was a little light, so he backed spring tension off slighlty on each side and tested again.

The good news - the door now functions properly. New springs (supposedly an upgrade in quality) with a 5 year warranty that started yesterday. No charge for the springs.

The bad news - incorrect springs were installed two years ago. The Liftmaster 3800P has had to work extra hard over the past two years. During that time it showed it's displeasure every 6 - 8 weeks by malfunctioning, requiring a reset of the travel limits each time. 1 year ago (Dec. 2016) I got frustrated and called the company that installed the springs and requested a system check. After a "multi-point inspection", I was told that there were parts on the Liftmaster that were probably nearing the end of their lifespan. The technician did not notice the incorrect spring choices, even though he presumably had access to the same documents that tipped off yesterday's tech. Yesterday's tech offered the explanation that perhaps in both 2015 and 2016 the dimensions of the door were eyeballed and guessed at instead of actually measured, which is why incorrect springs were installed and remained in place after the 2016 callback.

Beyond that, I have a new absolute encoder and logic board that I probably didn't need, but I also have the old parts as backups. This was my decision, I felt that I could replace a part or two for the cost of a service call, and I'm okay with this decision.

So, again, thank you to all who contributed to solving my problem, Dave Nelson and gnpenning in particular!

 

[Dave Nelson]

Glad to hear your problem was corrected, I know when our garage doors aren't working it becomes a # 1 priority. lol

 

[Buck41]

I have been looking at buying the liftmaster 3800 for my shop. I have seen lots of controller issues. Maybe I need to rethink this until liftmaster gets it worked our