Lighting Choice; LED High Bay

[cybrdyke]

does it look like bugs will get inside,....

Bugs get into the Lithonia model pretty easy. I've seen them only a month old, with plenty of dead bugs in them.
CD

 

[Radix2]

here it is as best I can determine the light positions from the .jpg

 

[Radix2]

Bugs get into the Lithonia model pretty easy. I've seen them only a month old, with plenty of dead bugs in them.
CD

Thanks,

yeah, they all seem to be full of holes - I think with the lowish height we have (15-17 ft) for high bay lights, that I would really want a diffuser lens to keep the glare down, but then there is the issue of bugs flying in at night when the doors might be open seems like it might cause some issues.

any advice?

 

[Radix2]

Here is adding one more light in the hole between the row of three and the far right one at top. kind of a 3-2-1 sorta symmetric triangle now.

 

[cory58]

Thanks,

yeah, they all seem to be full of holes - I think with the lowish height we have (15-17 ft) for high bay lights, that I would really want a diffuser lens to keep the glare down, but then there is the issue of bugs flying in at night when the doors might be open seems like it might cause some issues.

any advice?

I've read about people putting screen material over the holes, but I don't know how they are attaching it.

Cory

 

[revamped]

here it is as best I can determine the light positions from the .jpg

Here is adding one more light in the hole between the row of three and the far right one at top. kind of a 3-2-1 sorta symmetric triangle now.

Radix my friend... you are a life saver! Those numbers are acceptable with 5 lights for general work, but I really like the higher FC of adding the 6th. Thanks for helping me make the decision. The canned lighting will fill in the lower corners easily.

I am waiting for my slab to cure, I plan to wire up the James light and take pics of it to show all the holes and mounting etc. this weekend. I will hang it and take pics of the glare and beam spread as well.

Thanks everyone for participating in this Hi Bay solution. I didn't even think about bugs.

 

[revamped]

Here is adding one more light in the hole between the row of three and the far right one at top. kind of a 3-2-1 sorta symmetric triangle now.

This is with 21,500 Lumens per luminaire correct?

 

[Radix2]

This is with 21,500 Lumens per luminaire correct?

Yes, I used the .ies file for the James 165w - 21000 lumen luminaire.

Just for grins I am going to rerun with the lithonia 20000 lumen fixture to see if there is any difference.

I look forward to your evaluation of the light at altitude, thanks.

 

[Radix2]

Just to learn a bit, what are the dimensions of the RV - I wonder what happens if we stick a big box in there? I will give it a try if you want.

 

[revamped]

Radix, Awesome, if you have time it would be great to see the difference between the Lithonia and James. The RV takes up 10x25 and about 10ft high. with using 6 fixtures, I might move them back from the doors a little more and also move the one behind the RV more towards the weld shop area so I don't need task lighting.
Thanks for all of your work on this.

 

[Clevername]

I have been following this thread for a bit as I too have a new garage that is going to need lights in the near future. I found these Litetronics lights which are made in the USA, and look like they are good quality.



This model is 16" Dimmable LED UFO High Bay - 185 Watts - 22,000 Lumens - 4000K, and is $300.

They have a 15000 lumen version for $250. Here is a link to a place that sells them.

https://www.prolighting.com/coli/fixtures-high-low-bay-high-bays/led3/rosqhiba/hb185b140dl.html

Kelvin

 

[Radix2]

Radix, Awesome, if you have time it would be great to see the difference between the Lithonia and James. The RV takes up 10x25 and about 10ft high. with using 6 fixtures, I might move them back from the doors a little more and also move the one behind the RV more towards the weld shop area so I don't need task lighting.
Thanks for all of your work on this.

here is with the lithonia 18,000 lumen fixture ( closest to the James 165W - I was curious because the .ies file for the james did not have correct outlines for the fixtures) looks as expected considering this fixture is over 3000 lumens less so I have confidence in the James .ies.

Second pic is with the RV

 

[Radix2]

I have been following this thread for a bit as I too have a new garage that is going to need lights in the near future. I found these Litetronics lights which are made in the USA, and look like they are good quality.



This model is 16" Dimmable LED UFO High Bay - 185 Watts - 22,000 Lumens - 4000K, and is $300.

They have a 15000 lumen version for $250. Here is a link to a place that sells them.

https://www.prolighting.com/coli/fixtures-high-low-bay-high-bays/led3/rosqhiba/hb185b140dl.html

Kelvin

Those look pretty good - USA made, 80+cri, ect. and competitive price. I am looking for the .ies file. If I can find it I will put in into compare to the square style highbays.

 

[Radix2]

Here is the literonics with the frosted lens and the clear lens

 

[revamped]

Here is the literonics with the frosted lens and the clear lens

Basically what I see is the frosted litetronics is almost exactly the output of the james 165w for $120 more per fixture. I don't see any reason to spend more just to have ufo luminaires. One last question... can you show the 6 james 165's with the RV in place and the front 3 placed at 12ft from the door, the single in the non RV bay unchanged, the two at the rear of the rv bay, 1 at 25ft from the door centered and the other at 5ft from the back wall centered in the RV bay?

I have a feeling that layout will nail the lighting requirements since the weld shop area will need more light and I shouldn't waste it sitting above the RV. It also provides more light in the bays and a little less in the corners of the front wall where the garage doors are.

Your help has been very valuable for this thread and answers all the questions for us 16ft guys that couldn't get help in the lighting layout thread.
Thanks again Radix!!!

 

[Radix2]

Basically what I see is the frosted litetronics is almost exactly the output of the james 165w for $120 more per fixture. I don't see any reason to spend more just to have ufo luminaires. One last question... can you show the 6 james 165's with the RV in place and the front 3 placed at 12ft from the door, the single in the non RV bay unchanged, the two at the rear of the rv bay, 1 at 25ft from the door centered and the other at 5ft from the back wall centered in the RV bay?

I have a feeling that layout will nail the lighting requirements since the weld shop area will need more light and I shouldn't waste it sitting above the RV. It also provides more light in the bays and a little less in the corners of the front wall where the garage doors are.

Your help has been very valuable for this thread and answers all the questions for us 16ft guys that couldn't get help in the lighting layout thread.
Thanks again Radix!!!

relocated

 

[revamped]

Radix has solved all my issues in this thread. Thanks so much for taking the time with this and adjusting.

For clarity's sake of other people trying to figure it out... Radix has helped me find a lighting layout that significantly increases my lighting in work areas. The cutout in the lower left is the entry door and there is a loft that runs the same width all the way across the bottom of the image. The loft continues up the image as a 12x24 2nd story loft with 42" half wall.

This loft will undoubtedly increase shadows, but along the bottom of the entry is the stairwell going to the loft and motorcycle parking. The bottom of this section will have 7 canned LED lights 3000 color and about 900 lumens each.

Under the 12x24 section of loft is a Bar and Bathroom with their own canned lighting 3000 color, so there will be a mix of colors and I will likely dim the High Bays when entertaining.

Thanks again for all of the help. I will post pictures Sunday of the James 165w light at 15 feet

 

[jackblack85]

Has anyone used these fixtures with LED Bulbs ? Wondering how the output is.

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154572/PQL-55056.html

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154600/PQL-55062.html

 

[Radix2]

Radix has solved all my issues in this thread. Thanks so much for taking the time with this and adjusting.

For clarity's sake of other people trying to figure it out... Radix has helped me find a lighting layout that significantly increases my lighting in work areas. The cutout in the lower left is the entry door and there is a loft that runs the same width all the way across the bottom of the image. The loft continues up the image as a 12x24 2nd story loft with 42" half wall.

This loft will undoubtedly increase shadows, but along the bottom of the entry is the stairwell going to the loft and motorcycle parking. The bottom of this section will have 7 canned LED lights 3000 color and about 900 lumens each.

Under the 12x24 section of loft is a Bar and Bathroom with their own canned lighting 3000 color, so there will be a mix of colors and I will likely dim the High Bays when entertaining.

Thanks again for all of the help. I will post pictures Sunday of the James 165w light at 15 feet

OK, so I wanted to try the multi level lights so I added some cans (seems like too many..? these are about 1000 lumens each but I added 7 along the stair loft area at 8 feet, then added a long line all above the loft.

The 3d picture gives an idea of what I did, the iso plot is still at 2.5 feet, so you see the shadow of the loft itself.

 

[Radix2]

one last thought - why not add a light to really even out the open bay - if needed move the one hidden behind the RV (if the RV will always be there)

 

[revamped]

one last thought - why not add a light to really even out the open bay - if needed move the one hidden behind the RV (if the RV will always be there)

You are right, and thank you so much for the 3d layout. That really clears up what to expect. for the back part of the loft I am running 2 rows of led surface mount j-box lights (I have to test out the James vs. Westgate vs. Halo) and for the side loft I am running one row. A good friend convinced me to space them out to 8 feet apart instead of 4 or 6 like I originally thought. The Bar will have 5 so 4 equally spaced and one over the sink centered on the wall separating the bar and bath. The bath will have one in the middle and a vanity light above the sink.

I am going with your latest recommendation for spacing of 7 high bay luminaires. Probably on two switches so I can leave off what I don't need. It dawned on me that I may not always want the project front in on the lift so it gives me the light I need if I were to back a project in. That door has a high lift kit since it is a 10ft door with a 16ft ceiling so only the top two panels will go in the ceiling when opened.

Is there any way to show the 3d with this information? It would be good to see the Fc of the loft to ensure 8ft spacing is adequate. It would also save lots of money to reduce the LED pucks and pay for the additional high bay.

I appreciate all your support. I just painted the entire structure in 12 hours yesterday so I have to do lots of cleanup today and I will wire up that fixture and hang it temporarily to take pics.

Thanks

 

[Clevername]

So I ordered the James high bay ($205 with shipping):



http://www.ledlightingwholesaleinc.com/James-High-Bay-2-Foot-165-Watt-p/zy-h5-165w.htm

and the Litronics ($315.90 with shipping):



https://www.prolighting.com/hb185b140dl.html

I will post up some pictures once I get these mounted.

Kelvin

 

[azgr]

I think I'm going to end up using the 110W James linear high bay LED fixtures. These have a pendant mounting bracket that can be used for surface mounting, which looks to be a good ft for what I want.

Also, I'm pretty sure that these James fixtures are the same as the "Diva Light" fixtures. If you look at the part numbers for both of these, they are the same, likely out of the same factory in China.

 

[cory58]

Last weekend, I visited a high school buddy of mine who's worked in the industrial supply business for years (Westinghouse, Platt, others), and I took the opportunity to pick his brain on LED lighting. He is not currently rep-ing any LED lights, but he recommended Atlas Lighting as a quality brand that may be less expensive than Phillips or CREE.

Does anyone have experience with Atlas Lighting LED products? This fixture seems like a potential alternative to the Lithonia or Diva 2x2 fixtures I was considering.

http://www.atlaslightingproducts.com/amfilerating/file/download/file_id/560/

Best price I can find is $229 w/ free shipping. The CRI is higher than the Lithonia, but comparable to the DIVA. I also like that it has a replaceable Phillips driver. I wonder how that compares to the OSRAM driver in the DIVA? I can't find driver info for the Lithonia.

I know the price is higher, but I only plan to buy 5 fixtures. They will be mounted approx. 16-17 feet high, so I don't want to rent a lift again to repair/replace them for as long as possible.

Any thoughts/feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Cory

 

[Beal095]

The James 165w light is listed at universal voltage 100-277v. How are sizing your wire and breaker size and will you be at 120vac or 220vac?

 

[revamped]

I planned on running 12/2 NMB on a 120/20amp circuit to 7 luminaires

 

[Beal095]

Ok thanks. I'm laying mine out now also. Mine has 16' ceilings as well.

 

[Clevername]

Last weekend, I visited a high school buddy of mine who's worked in the industrial supply business for years (Westinghouse, Platt, others), and I took the opportunity to pick his brain on LED lighting. He is not currently rep-ing any LED lights, but he recommended Atlas Lighting as a quality brand that may be less expensive than Phillips or CREE.

Does anyone have experience with Atlas Lighting LED products? This fixture seems like a potential alternative to the Lithonia or Diva 2x2 fixtures I was considering.

http://www.atlaslightingproducts.com/amfilerating/file/download/file_id/560/

Best price I can find is $229 w/ free shipping. The CRI is higher than the Lithonia, but comparable to the DIVA. I also like that it has a replaceable Phillips driver. I wonder how that compares to the OSRAM driver in the DIVA? I can't find driver info for the Lithonia.

I know the price is higher, but I only plan to buy 5 fixtures. They will be mounted approx. 16-17 feet high, so I don't want to rent a lift again to repair/replace them for as long as possible.

Any thoughts/feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Cory

Those look nice. I like the Philips driver as well -at least it is name brand. Most of these components are made in China, one would think the name brand stuff would have better quality control and therefore less failures. I also have the feeling that Lumen claims may be exaggerated with the no-name brands from China.

 

[revamped]

Last weekend, I visited a high school buddy of mine who's worked in the industrial supply business for years (Westinghouse, Platt, others), and I took the opportunity to pick his brain on LED lighting. He is not currently rep-ing any LED lights, but he recommended Atlas Lighting as a quality brand that may be less expensive than Phillips or CREE.

Does anyone have experience with Atlas Lighting LED products? This fixture seems like a potential alternative to the Lithonia or Diva 2x2 fixtures I was considering.

http://www.atlaslightingproducts.com/amfilerating/file/download/file_id/560/

Best price I can find is $229 w/ free shipping. The CRI is higher than the Lithonia, but comparable to the DIVA. I also like that it has a replaceable Phillips driver. I wonder how that compares to the OSRAM driver in the DIVA? I can't find driver info for the Lithonia.

I know the price is higher, but I only plan to buy 5 fixtures. They will be mounted approx. 16-17 feet high, so I don't want to rent a lift again to repair/replace them for as long as possible.

Any thoughts/feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Cory

I'm really not familiar with the drivers or understanding of how to repair these lights if something goes wrong. I will help do more research to see if there is anyone with experience. I also see the thread for the Best LED discussing there are some problems with the James pass-thru LED light bulbs... not sure that would be applicable to the product in the high bay light since they have their own driver. Not really sure what the issue is yet.

Please continue to post in this thread if you find anything as well. I will be posting pics this week of the 165W james hanging at 15ft. I got behind this weekend painting the structure.
Thanks

 

[Radix2]

Last weekend, I visited a high school buddy of mine who's worked in the industrial supply business for years (Westinghouse, Platt, others), and I took the opportunity to pick his brain on LED lighting. He is not currently rep-ing any LED lights, but he recommended Atlas Lighting as a quality brand that may be less expensive than Phillips or CREE.

Does anyone have experience with Atlas Lighting LED products? This fixture seems like a potential alternative to the Lithonia or Diva 2x2 fixtures I was considering.

http://www.atlaslightingproducts.com/amfilerating/file/download/file_id/560/

Best price I can find is $229 w/ free shipping. The CRI is higher than the Lithonia, but comparable to the DIVA. I also like that it has a replaceable Phillips driver. I wonder how that compares to the OSRAM driver in the DIVA? I can't find driver info for the Lithonia.

I know the price is higher, but I only plan to buy 5 fixtures. They will be mounted approx. 16-17 feet high, so I don't want to rent a lift again to repair/replace them for as long as possible.

Any thoughts/feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Cory

One note on the Lithonia lights - they can be ordered in 70,80,90 CRI. That is one thing that attracts me to the James - I think it make sense to get at least an 80 CRI but they tend to offer the 70 version for the name brands to keep the prices low. Probably another reason to buy at an electrical supplier where they can get the exact model.



Revamped - if you would like me to try anything else, the best thing would be to photshop the positions on the layout and point to the .ies you want to use. It is not too clear for me what lights go where from the written description. WIll keep an eye out for your first hand impressions.

 

[revamped]

One note on the Lithonia lights - they can be ordered in 70,80,90 CRI. That is one thing that attracts me to the James - I think it make sense to get at least an 80 CRI but they tend to offer the 70 version for the name brands to keep the prices low. Probably another reason to buy at an electrical supplier where they can get the exact model.



Revamped - if you would like me to try anything else, the best thing would be to photshop the positions on the layout and point to the .ies you want to use. It is not too clear for me what lights go where from the written description. WIll keep an eye out for your first hand impressions.

I agree, I see Lithonia lights with way lower specs for the same DIVA or James price point. The CRI is really important to me since I will be doing lots of paint work. It's kind of a showroom as well since we entertain in there. If you see where DIVA or JAMES, WESTGATE, etc have been called out for false reports of CRI, Lumens, or Lumens per Watt, please share! I would hate to purchase this much lighting only to find that they are over-rated.

Radix... Thanks for offering to look at the layout again. I added red dots for the LED J-box lights and changed the High Bay layout to match your recommendations on the 7 luminaires. Both pictures show both floors now. Thanks so much for taking the time. If you can show the FC of both floors that will help me figure out if I need to add more faux cans. The color I am going with for the faux cans is 2700-3000 and the LED HB is 5000.

Thanks again! This thread will eventually serve as a High Bay Lighting Thread at this rate!

 

[Radix2]

I agree, I see Lithonia lights with way lower specs for the same DIVA or James price point. The CRI is really important to me since I will be doing lots of paint work. It's kind of a showroom as well since we entertain in there. If you see where DIVA or JAMES, WESTGATE, etc have been called out for false reports of CRI, Lumens, or Lumens per Watt, please share! I would hate to purchase this much lighting only to find that they are over-rated.

Radix... Thanks for offering to look at the layout again. I added red dots for the LED J-box lights and changed the High Bay layout to match your recommendations on the 7 luminaires. Both pictures show both floors now. Thanks so much for taking the time. If you can show the FC of both floors that will help me figure out if I need to add more faux cans. The color I am going with for the faux cans is 2700-3000 and the LED HB is 5000.

Thanks again! This thread will eventually serve as a High Bay Lighting Thread at this rate!

What are those faux can lights? Can you point to a .ies file for the ones you are buying? I didn't have much behind the ones I used, they were done kind of euro real cans that I found in the dialux catalog - might as well use what you have in mind.

 

[revamped]

What are those faux can lights? Can you point to a .ies file for the ones you are buying? I didn't have much behind the ones I used, they were done kind of euro real cans that I found in the dialux catalog - might as well use what you have in mind.

Sure, and Thanks Again
The MaxLite Faux Cans I am testing are model LFC61527W/V2 http://www.maxlite.com/item/ies/?=LFC61527W/V2

The WestGate LED Disc Downlight is at http://westgatemfg.com/led-trims-rdl-3147 and I am deciding between 27K and 30K in the 6". I do not see any .ies files for these and could not locate them online anywhere. I assume they are very similar

The last light I am testing seems to be of higher quality but I am not sure it is worth almost double the price. The HALO model sld606930whr made by cooper industries http://webtools.cooperindustries.co...Downlight&_ga=1.28013368.585343356.1474467608

Hope this is enough info so you don't have to do any more research. I am really interested in staying in the $15-18 range and not the $30-40 range since I need 22 luminaires. However... if the WestGate and MaxLite turn out to be junk, or the HALO circuitry is worth double the price... than I will just have to bite the bullet on the HALO and do it right... once.

 

[azgr]

Update from my side - I've been in touch with a contact directly at James, and they can be surface mounted to standard fan boxes using a "U" shaped bracket that they can supply.

I'm planning to order the James 110W fixtures for my garage, and will likely use 10 of them. I will have a center row of 4 fixtures on a separate circuit, and 2 rows of 3 fixtures closer to the outside walls. The corners on my garage might not be fully lit, but I think this will be OK for my application.

Looking forward to the photo from revamped with the James light @ 15 feet.

 

[revamped]

James 165W Pics Re: Lighting Choice; LED High Bay

As Promised! Here are the pics of the James 165W hung at 15ft. I took a pic of colorful extension cords and a pic from out in the dark. That is just one luminaire placed above and to the front of where I expect engine compartments to be open in the lift bay. I took pics of the housing to show that I don't see any holes that would permit bugs to enter into the luminaire, but they corrupted in my camera. I do see vents in the sheetmetal down the side, but they are directional and I cant tell if they are open enough for bugs to go in there.

This is certainly a lot of light... so much so that if I use 7 luminaires I may drop down to the 110's. Not sure yet, I can always put them on a dimmer instead. I want to be able to dim them down when just hanging out in the bar and rely on the faux cans to provide the softer lighting. Regardless, I think I will eliminate the light on the right side of the lift bay and stick with two in the middle front and rear of that bay, one in between the bays in the middle, one opposite the middle on the other side of the RV and one right behind the RV, and one in the Weld Area closer to the wall so it lights up the benches and equipment nicely.

Thanks everyone for participating in the thread, look forward to more discussion in case there is a better luminaire out there that gives more quality and high lumens per watt!

revamped

 

[Radix2]

Hey thanks for posting the pics. Hard to get a true impression from a photo for lights - what is your opinion on the glare in person - is it distracting or unpleasant in your opinion?

I think an important feature of these lights is the dimming capability - you can get the 100fc for detail work and then back off to 50-70fc for more comfort. I started playing with the calculations dialux can do classify glare and it looks to me like it is very hard to get to high light levels with low glare levels in practical designs. At the same time if you turn the illumination down, even these highbay lights fall into acceptable ranges.

Haven't had a chance to update the model yet.

 

[Clevername]

You should stick it on a dimmer and see how well it dims. I put 4 6in cans in my study with Cree LEDs, and they were much brighter than we thought. I would have liked better dimming too. I don't think LEDs dim as well as incandescent lights. I would have been pissed if I had put two more in as planned.

 

[revamped]

Hey thanks for posting the pics. Hard to get a true impression from a photo for lights - what is your opinion on the glare in person - is it distracting or unpleasant in your opinion?

I think an important feature of these lights is the dimming capability - you can get the 100fc for detail work and then back off to 50-70fc for more comfort. I started playing with the calculations dialux can do classify glare and it looks to me like it is very hard to get to high light levels with low glare levels in practical designs. At the same time if you turn the illumination down, even these highbay lights fall into acceptable ranges.

Haven't had a chance to update the model yet.

Well, I am not sure how to compare it. I will say that first impression was DAMN that's bright. You cant look up at the lights without it being too harsh, but not sure I will be looking up much. It could also be the 5000 color is more harsh than the 4000. I definitely feel that they should be on a dimmer and when max brightness is needed it would be a blessing. I will pick up the two pack dimmers at Costco Friday and see what kind of dimming it can handle.

You should stick it on a dimmer and see how well it dims. I put 4 6in cans in my study with Cree LEDs, and they were much brighter than we thought. I would have liked better dimming too. I don't think LEDs dim as well as incandescent lights. I would have been pissed if I had put two more in as planned.

Clever, I will add a dimmer and see how it functions. Maybe I can figure out how to post a video of it dimming... but it is tough to tell in photo's without a reference photo to compare.

 

[Radix2]

Well, I am not sure how to compare it. I will say that first impression was DAMN that's bright. You cant look up at the lights without it being too harsh, but not sure I will be looking up much. It could also be the 5000 color is more harsh than the 4000. I definitely feel that they should be on a dimmer and when max brightness is needed it would be a blessing. I will pick up the two pack dimmers at Costco Friday and see what kind of dimming it can handle.



Clever, I will add a dimmer and see how it functions. Maybe I can figure out how to post a video of it dimming... but it is tough to tell in photo's without a reference photo to compare.

You need to be aware that these lights use a special 10v dimming system - it is not the same as dimming normal lights. What you have to do is buy a correct 0-10v dimmer and also run dedicated dimming wires to the fixtures. The dimming signal is low voltage and current, so the wires are small like to a thermostat. I will look up the recommended wire, or someone can post it.

I am pretty sure that Costco does not have this type of dimmer. I did see that Menards had one in stock.

 

[Clevername]

They may dim better with the 0-10V dedicated dimming circuit. The cans I had used standard wiring, but I did have to by a special dimmer for like $65. These were on a dedicated circuit. I can't remember what they called it "forward pulsed" or "reverse pulsed". It is all clear as mud.

Kelvin