Lighting Choice; LED High Bay

[tom.dickerson]

I ended up ordering 8 of the James 165's. Does anybody know if you can mount them directly to the ceiling without the pendant hanger? I am running conduit and wondered if you can hang and use the knockouts on the side or end to run the wire? I didn't know if there is an overhead clearance or not? Or if they go together in a manner that would let you mount the top and then attach the rest of the light? I can hang from the hangers directly to the ceiling, but would rather screw them to it if possible. I couldn't find anywhere to get the pendant hanger.

Thanks. I can post pictures once mine are in.

 

[revamped]

I ended up ordering 8 of the James 165's. Does anybody know if you can mount them directly to the ceiling without the pendant hanger? I am running conduit and wondered if you can hang and use the knockouts on the side or end to run the wire? I didn't know if there is an overhead clearance or not? Or if they go together in a manner that would let you mount the top and then attach the rest of the light? I can hang from the hangers directly to the ceiling, but would rather screw them to it if possible. I couldn't find anywhere to get the pendant hanger.

Thanks. I can post pictures once mine are in.

Tom, the manufacturer does not recommend direct mounting. The pendant hanger is ordered from the supplier of the lights. LED Wholesale has them. I have one hanging by the chains right now. I don't believe the back of the light is capable of disassembly, only the box where the wire enters. I plan to use the wire side brackets that the chain hooks to and install hooks in the joists hooking directly to the wire with no chain. That puts the light hanging down about 2 inches from the sheetrock and I will just run a flex from the box to the light. It actually has nice hangar wires so I think it will look very neat installed.

 

[tom.dickerson]

That is what I was thinking and planning to do the same as you if so. Thanks!

 

[motofool33]

That is what I was thinking and planning to do the same as you if so. Thanks!

Tom did you get them mounted yet?

 

[motofool33]

Oh Another Question i thought of does anyone know of a product i can use with the 165 watty james lights to control them by a remote in the shop instead of running dedicated switches down to the floor. Reason is i have lighting circuits wired in up high on my walls i will just tap into for these lights, but the switch is like 40ft away and id like to control the lights more then just on/off

other option i was thinking was use motion sensors on the lights and leave them connected to the circuit with the same switch.

 

[tom.dickerson]

Not yet, still waiting for delivery, supposed to be later this week, maybe next weekend I will get them up.

 

[Brandon314159]

Not to highjack, but in a similar boat.

24x36' post-frame building with screened (almost gloss smooth) bare cement floor. Opening 4/12 pitched ceiling with white plastic under white metal roof, mounting lights ~15ft up. Thinking about x6 of the 225W James High Bay 5000K w/ diffusers. Overhead door on the far end so likely mount the two lights in that bay at door-track level (12-13') on either side.

I'd mostly run these dimmed, but want the ability to hit 100% when I really need the light.

Generally only stuff against the walls (shelving/etc). Not really going for perfect even light, especially since I want to limit wiring/items hanging. I know I could throw a lot of strip lights at the task but this seems straightforward and I'm willing to take the hit on a few shadows for less fixture complications.

Anyone think I'm off my rocker?

About to pull the trigger on 6 fixtures.

 

[motofool33]

Not to highjack, but in a similar boat.

24x36' post-frame building with screened (almost gloss smooth) bare cement floor. Opening 4/12 pitched ceiling with white plastic under white metal roof, mounting lights ~15ft up. Thinking about x6 of the 225W James High Bay 5000K. Overhead door on the far end so likely mount the two lights in that bay at door-track level (12-13') on either side.

I'd mostly run these dimmed, but want the ability to hit 100% when I really need the light.

Generally only stuff against the walls (shelving/etc).

Anyone think I'm off my rocker?

About to pull the trigger on 6 fixtures.

If we can find a Dimmer that works with these i say its a good Idea, ive been looking at moving to the 225watt versions because the 165watt are only 19k lumens.

last night i started looking into using 54wattt flourescent tubes and they sure do put out alot of Light for the price compared to how much the leds cost.

 

[Brandon314159]

I'll happily design up a dimmer if I cannot find one. Day job is design/prototyping/assembling electronic stuff. A 0-10V signal is pretty easy to create though.

I thought about tubes (and have been impressed with T8 modern stuff in my dad's shop) but the dimming features are very attractive to me and I really want/need instant on since I am not in the building 8hrs+ a day like a commercial setup. Definitely will run diffusers.

Thought about the 165W but for the few extra bucks, the extra light on tap would be nice when I really need it and instead run dimmed most of the time. I'll fill in with strip LED lights as needed.

Thanks for the feedback motofool!

 

[motofool33]

I'll happily design up a dimmer if I cannot find one. Day job is design/prototyping/assembling electronic stuff. A 0-10V signal is pretty easy to create though.

I thought about tubes (and have been impressed with T8 modern stuff in my dad's shop) but the dimming features are very attractive to me and I really want/need instant on since I am not in the building 8hrs+ a day like a commercial setup.

Thought about the 165W but for the few extra bucks, the extra light on tap would be nice when I really need it and instead run dimmed most of the time.

Thanks for the feedback motofool!

atlantalightbulbs carries the James LED linear lights, but the sales guy could not get the manufacture to recommend a Dimmer that doesn't void the warranty. i emailed James the mfg waiting for what they recommend.

so far atlantalightbulbs recomended these occupancy sensors:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001U3Z46Q/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[tom.dickerson]

I have not gotten my lights installed yet, but for anyone interested, I got the Lutron DVSTV-WH switch and wired it up to one of my James 165W lights last night. The dimmer worked.

 

[Brandon314159]

I have not gotten my lights installed yet, but for anyone interested, I got the Lutron DVSTV-WH switch and wired it up to one of my James 165W lights last night. The dimmer worked.

Great!

Waiting on delivery of my James 225W units.

 

[motofool33]

I have not gotten my lights installed yet, but for anyone interested, I got the Lutron DVSTV-WH switch and wired it up to one of my James 165W lights last night. The dimmer worked.

theres a bunch of amp ratings/models on that Dimmer which one did you get?

 

[motofool33]

Alright So doing some research on a switch and Dimmer and most of the switches say 600watt max, do they mean the amount of leds for instance 225watt James LED x6 = 1350watt capable switch.

or is it a different wattage on the Control Circuit that actually makes the wattage nearly irrelevant?

 

[cybrdyke]

theres a bunch of amp ratings/models on that Dimmer which one did you get?

Alright So doing some research on a switch and Dimmer and most of the switches say 600watt max, do they mean the amount of leds for instance 225watt James LED x6 = 1350watt capable switch.

or is it a different wattage on the Control Circuit that actually makes the wattage nearly irrelevant?

Lutron DVSTV is 8 amps, single pole or 3 way. You need a 0-10vdc dimmer, not a standard dimmer. Watts doesn't come into play with these.
Good luck,
CD

 

[motofool33]

Lutron DVSTV is 8 amps, single pole or 3 way. You need a 0-10vdc dimmer, not a standard dimmer. Watts doesn't come into play with these.
Good luck,
CD

so as i understand it if 6x225watt james lights pull 2amp each thats 12amps, i would need two of these Switches to Switch and Dim all 6 lights?

this is the Switch im talking about 8amp 0-10volt dimming,
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SA9BEJO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[cybrdyke]

so as i understand it if 6x225watt james lights pull 2amp each thats 12amps, i would need two of these Switches to Switch and Dim all 6 lights?

this is the Switch im talking about 8amp 0-10volt dimming,
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SA9BEJO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

That's correct. That's one way to do it.

If you want to spend a few extra bucks and get fancy, buy a Lutron 0-10 PowPak:
https://www.amazon.com/Lutron-PowPak-RMJ-5T-DV-B-Wireless-Fluorescent/dp/B00JV3F0B6/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1480388808&sr=1-1&keywords=lutron+powpak

Plus a Wireless switch for it:
https://www.amazon.com/Lutron-PJ2-2BRL-GWH-L01-Remote-Control-White/dp/B00KLAXJ2U/ref=sr_1_8?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1480388898&sr=1-8&keywords=lutron+pico

and voila!...you've got wireless control!!
Good luck!
CD

 

[motofool33]

So after more Searching i found a higher capacity Switch with Dimming capability thanks to Greg at Leviton

AWSMT-7DW this switch has a 16amp load capacity with 0-10volt dimming. price is 60-85$ depending on the retailer you choose.

Info:
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=AWSMT-7DW&section=67477&minisite=10251

 

[revamped]

SO... since we are on the topic of the dimmer again. I have not wired up yet, I just installed the boxes for the power and separate lv boxes for the 18ga twisted for the control circuit.

The dimmer I purchased was recommended by Cooper to me to control both the power and the LV control of the lighting. They told me I needed this dimmer based on the total wattage of my fixtures and that the standard 0-10v dimmers would not work.

Does anyone have experience to tell me if I am out to lunch?

Devine 1200-Watt Dimmable LED/FLR Dimmer with Presets Color Kit Model # 206469431

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-De...hange-Kit-Black-White-Gray-DF10P-C5/206469431

 

[Radix2]

SO... since we are on the topic of the dimmer again. I have not wired up yet, I just installed the boxes for the power and separate lv boxes for the 18ga twisted for the control circuit.

The dimmer I purchased was recommended by Cooper to me to control both the power and the LV control of the lighting. They told me I needed this dimmer based on the total wattage of my fixtures and that the standard 0-10v dimmers would not work.

Does anyone have experience to tell me if I am out to lunch?

Devine 1200-Watt Dimmable LED/FLR Dimmer with Presets Color Kit Model # 206469431

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-De...hange-Kit-Black-White-Gray-DF10P-C5/206469431

That looks fine as long as your circuit is 10a or less.

I still don't know why they put less than a std 15a switch in these things, but that seems to be the case. At the same time, the issue is kinda confined to hibays since you can put a ton of regular output fixtures on a 8-10a circuit...it is these hi power hibays covering big areas that trips it up.

I may still use one dimmer to control my three rows of lights and switch the power with regular switches. With this style of dimming, the power switching and the dimming control are two distinct items.

 

[motofool33]

SO... since we are on the topic of the dimmer again. I have not wired up yet, I just installed the boxes for the power and separate lv boxes for the 18ga twisted for the control circuit.

The dimmer I purchased was recommended by Cooper to me to control both the power and the LV control of the lighting. They told me I needed this dimmer based on the total wattage of my fixtures and that the standard 0-10v dimmers would not work.

Does anyone have experience to tell me if I am out to lunch?

Devine 1200-Watt Dimmable LED/FLR Dimmer with Presets Color Kit Model # 206469431

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-De...hange-Kit-Black-White-Gray-DF10P-C5/206469431

Without digging to see how many amps your lights are hard to tell, but it is a 10amp load capacity, and 0-10 volt capable.

For instance my James 225watt draw 1.8-2 amps with 6 of them I could not use this switch/dimmer you linked as I'm at 11-12 amps. But if your below you could use it.



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[revamped]

That looks fine as long as your circuit is 10a or less.

I still don't know why they put less than a std 15a switch in these things, but that seems to be the case. At the same time, the issue is kinda confined to hibays since you can put a ton of regular output fixtures on a 8-10a circuit...it is these hi power hibays covering big areas that trips it up.

I may still use one dimmer to control my three rows of lights and switch the power with regular switches. With this style of dimming, the power switching and the dimming control are two distinct items.

So... it looks like 990W at 120V with I am guessing a power factor of .9 for LED (the James website states .99) gives me 9.1 Amps which should be good to go. The previous post about the PICO remotes has me very curious however...

I like the idea of being able to control the garage lighting internally in the shop, but also having a separate remote in the house which is only about 20 feet away. I wonder if I can mount the controller high against the wall nearest my house and get signal from my kitchen back door to operate the high bays from both locations...


If I change over to the Lutron with the PICO remote, does one

 

[motofool33]

So... it looks like 990W at 120V with I am guessing a power factor of .9 for LED (the James website states .99) gives me 9.1 Amps which should be good to go. The previous post about the PICO remotes has me very curious however...

I like the idea of being able to control the garage lighting internally in the shop, but also having a separate remote in the house which is only about 20 feet away. I wonder if I can mount the controller high against the wall nearest my house and get signal from my kitchen back door to operate the high bays from both locations...


If I change over to the Lutron with the PICO remote, does one

The biggest WiFi rf style switch I could find handled 8amps so you would need 2 switches, and possibly 2 remotes.

But I did see they worked long distance like 300ft when searching the model cyberduke posted.

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[Brandon314159]

I just fired up a couple of my 225W James High Bay (5000K) and they're 0.99+ power factor. Meter bounced from 0.99 to 1.00.

Really really like them.

 

[Brandon314159]

I dimmed the James 225W high-bay lights last night to see what they look like.

Using 0-10V power-supply with a load (to pull down the voltage).

Lowest setting (0V) they are 7.5W per fixture with a poor power factor (~0.5..not far off some CFL bulbs) but are very, very low light level. Power factor jumps up pretty quickly as you get off the dimmest setting (up to 0.99-1.00 at the full 225W).

Pretty traditional for a driver (can't design for perfect power factor everywhere without incurring a lot of cost).

The range of light output is outstanding. Still very pleased with these fixtures.

 

[motofool33]

I dimmed the James 225W high-bay lights last night to see what they look like.

Using 0-10V power-supply with a load (to pull down the voltage).

Lowest setting (0V) they are 7.5W per fixture with a poor power factor (~0.5..not far off some CFL bulbs) but are very, very low light level. Power factor jumps up pretty quickly as you get off the dimmest setting (up to 0.99-1.00 at the full 225W).

Pretty traditional for a driver (can't design for perfect power factor everywhere without incurring a lot of cost).

The range of light output is outstanding. Still very pleased with these fixtures.

No pics?

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[Brandon314159]

Pictures don't really do justice since the camera will just adjust for the blindingly bright light source but, here ya go

Fixture in box:

Power factor, single fixture full brightness:

Two fixtures hung (temporary wiring for testing locations) in center:

Fixture dimmed to minimum:

Fixture at max brightness:


Really throw the light. Can't even tell that there are 60W CFL PAR lights on or not when those two fixtures are fired up.

I have 130ft-c under each fixture at work height , 120ft-c in the center, and 100+ft-c up to each wall. The center bay will brighten up a bit more with the installation of 4 more fixtures (6 total) and should drop what's left on the shadows.

 

[motofool33]

How high did you mount them?

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[Brandon314159]

How high did you mount them?

Eaves are ~14ft and they're halfway up the roof slope mounted on their s-hooks/hangers so I'd estimate ~15.5'

I have the diffusers on which helps quite a bit with softening the light.

 

[motofool33]

Eaves are ~14ft and they're halfway up the roof slope mounted on their s-hooks/hangers so I'd estimate ~15.5'

I have the diffusers on which helps quite a bit with softening the light.

Awesome I'm awaiting arrival of mine 6x 225watt in 40x43 space

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[Brandon314159]

For reference this is a 24x36'. I wanted to 'overlight' a bit since I can dim.

Be curious to see how the same fixtures light a significantly larger space.

 

[Radix2]

Thanks for the feedback, your height is about what I am looking at in a 40x50, still trying to decide to leave it at 12 fixtures or add a row and go to 16 at a lower power.

The issue for me is glare and shadows, which are really hard for me to understand from Dialux - maybe someone can comment on what to look for how to use some of the advanced features to get a handle on it.

What is your impression in just being in there and having any part of the fixture in your peripheral vision? I looked at the 15,000 level 2x2 lithonias in a store and the glare did not seem so bad with double the area these should not be worse ?

 

[Brandon314159]

I wear glasses so I'm pretty used to glare unfortunately.

The fixtures are high enough that I have to look up to see them. The diffusers and LED's are (IMO) softer than even my office lights (tube troffers).

I got a LOT more light reflecting off the walls than I expected (plain hardiepanel not yet covered) so that definitely helps with shadows and even lighting. I also have opaque plastic sheeting under my white metal roof.

I am hoping to get the last 4 fixtures up soon and I'm happy to take a video or test pictures if you want. I had a hard time finding data about these too so eventually just pulled the trigger because I was tired of digging around in the rabbit holes.

I knew that I didn't want to be wiring up 20-30 fixtures or dealing with mounting them as I will never have a finished ceiling in my shop (forklift).

 

[Radix2]

Thanks, well, if the 225w 30,000 Lumen version is tolerable, then I am worried about nothing.

In Dialux, the 12x165W gives me a solid 100fc with the section right under the center row at 130fc at 15'.

Just to check on how close dialux is, I will simulate your set up - how far apart would you say the fixtures are?

 

[Brandon314159]

Thanks, well, if the 225w 30,000 Lumen version is tolerable, then I am worried about nothing.

In Dialux, the 12x165W gives me a solid 100fc with the section right under the center row at 130fc at 15'.

Just to check on how close dialux is, I will simulate your set up - how far apart would you say the fixtures are?

Fixtures are centered between peak and wall (so in ~6ft from the wall). They're longitude with the length of the building.

I ran it through one of those calculator tools using a 'similar' fixture and was seeing the ~100fc numbers with really low ceiling/wall reflectivity so I was happy. The light sensor I'm using is just some app on my phone (so likely *** for calibrated numbers). Fine for comparisons.

 

[Radix2]

oh, how about color rendering ? I would lean toward the 4000K, but how do you like the light - colors look good?

 

[Radix2]

Fixtures are centered between peak and wall (so in ~6ft from the wall). They're longitude with the length of the building.

I ran it through one of those calculator tools using a 'similar' fixture and was seeing the ~100fc numbers with really low ceiling/wall reflectivity so I was happy. The light sensor I'm using is just some app on my phone (so likely *** for calibrated numbers). Fine for comparisons.

so that is about 12' apart - right?

 

[Brandon314159]

so that is about 12' apart - right?

Correct.

I chose 5000K vs 4000K. I've worked in both and 5000K is my preference for workspace. Didn't want to go any cooler though.

 

[Radix2]

Hmm. I am kinda surprised at the Dialux results. I expected much higher local brightness with just the two fixtures like you measured. one pic is center two fixtures, the other is all six. 70%/50%/20% reflectivity ceiling/wall/floors. I used the .evo file for the James 225W downloaded from James.

 

[Brandon314159]

That does seem a bit strange...