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Lightning Strike crazy $$$$ damages so far

minytrker

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Brenham TX
Lightning struck the transformer outside my house last week and burned up a lot of stuff. I have a surge protector on my main breaker box for house and multiple battery back ups/ surge protectors throughout the house. None saved anything. It took out:
water well, 2 AC units, convection cook top, all my dyno electronics, my whole house automation computer system, camera system, router, 6 POE switches, cat 6 cable going to my shop, everything plugged into my 24 port POE switch, my whole network, network controller and the list keeps growing.
 
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N_Jay

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Lightning struck the transformer outside my house last week and burned up a lot of stuff. I have a surge protector on my main breaker box for house and multiple battery back ups/ surge protectors throughout the house. None saved anything. It took out:
water well, 2 AC units, convection cook top, all my dyno electronics, my whole house automation computer system, camera system, router, 6 POE switches, cat 6 cable going to my shop, everything plugged into my 24 port POE switch, my whole network, network controller and the list keeps growing.

How are those 15 computers you were holding for me.
I'll get a receipt together for your insurance. ;)

Seriously, it sounds like your house needs a better ground system, as the surge.
Did the POE run out of the house to the shop? Did you have surge protectors on any POE going outside the house?
 

loganb

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Omaha, NE
Damn, hope all who were inside are safe.

Few neighbors on the farm got direct or nearly direct strikes on their power lines in the past. Get a good inspection of the wiring, at least 2 of them got their entire house rewired as part of the repairs. One strike was so large it blew the cover plates off the outlets on the side of the house closest to the main panel
 
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minytrker

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I think it was just a freak deal. Old transformer was struck and blew up and had zero isues, this one just blew fuse.

POE going to shop, cameras, and 3 outside AP's, no external surge protection. I thought the 24 port smart switch had it built in.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Modesto, CA
I think it was just a freak deal. Old transformer was struck and blew up and had zero isues, this one just blew fuse.

POE going to shop, cameras, and 3 outside AP's, no external surge protection. I thought the 24 port smart switch had it built in.
ive never seen surge protection, especially for lightning on a switch... what model switch do you have?
 

BrandonV

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I think it was just a freak deal. Old transformer was struck and blew up and had zero isues, this one just blew fuse.

POE going to shop, cameras, and 3 outside AP's, no external surge protection. I thought the 24 port smart switch had it built in.

Never seen anything besides an industrial switch have integrated surge protection (and even then those were rated for IEC 61000-4-5 which is for transient lighting stray current only). You should try to find equipment certified under IEC 61643-21 (or similar). I've had good luck with Tupavco equipment.

Every now and then a direct strike will still take something out but plenty of commercial installations take strikes all the time and keep on chugging. Obviously they have much more advanced grounding and arresting equipment.
 

MOS3522

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Colorado
Lightning struck the tree next to my underground electric service. New ovens; new refrigerator control panel; new standby generator motherboard; 1 new 60" plasma TV; 2 new garage openers; other stuff too. More than $15K in total (including installing surge suppressors on the panels to prevent future events).
 

ybnormal

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Jan 3, 2016
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we got hit by lightning about 6 yrs ago on a still summer night, no clouds. lightning actually went in the attic, struck metal, started a fire, jumped to cable tv coax, traveled down to plug-in power booster, blew it off the wall leaving a ********* scorch mark, went back out to the demarc, then traveled from the demarc back out to the street and from the demarc to our MiL standalone apartment and burned up both lines. down thru the breaker box, along some lines to various electronics that were UPS protected. etc etc etc. my insurance covered me on everything, the scumbag UPS company of APC said they found "no issues with the UPS I sent them for my claim, but we'll give you $** as a condolence".
 

Beemer

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We lost a well submersible well pump once. May not sound like much but there is 150 feet of hose to deal with in both directions of the replacement. Lucky it is 150 feet because neighbor had to go about 450 feet to get adequate water. That a pile of hose to walk around the yard.
 

reader2580

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Minneapolis, MN
I lost a Tivo DVR, a home theater receiver, and one HDMI port on my TV in an electrical storm last fall.

I believe my grounding and bonding is up to snuff. I replaced my meter base, ground rods (and the wire), main load center, and the bonding wire to my copper pipes in 2020 with full permits and inspection. The copper pipes do not extend into the ground as the pipe from the well is plastic.
 
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californiamilleghia

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SoCal
How do machine shops protect their machines from lightning damage ?

My buddy is building a new shop out on open land and has lots of machines he needs to protect ,

Thanks for your ideas .
 

CoogarXR

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Ohio
I've told the story before, but about 20 years ago one of the offices I did IT for got hit by lightning through the cable modem. Blew the modem, the router, the switch stack, the 32-port serial server, and every serial device connected to it. Shipping terminals, label printers, all the printers in the printer room, including crazy-expensive high-speed multi-part-form tractor feed printers... Yeah, that was a fat bill.
 

N_Jay

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What does that cost?
What do you need done?
There is a lot of science that if understood can be applied for little additional cost.
There is also lots of myths that burn a lot of money fir very little real protection.

Grounding tries to shunt the surge away from the system. Good grounding helps but is never enough.
No grounding is bad, and bad grounding can be worse.

Bonding lowers voltage potential across system components.

Perfect bonding needs no ground, and a perfect ground needs no further Bonding.

Neither can be done perfectly.

Surge suppression prevents/limits differential voltage between signal/power conductors that can not be bonded to ground and still function.
 

BrandonV

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Arizona
I've told the story before, but about 20 years ago one of the offices I did IT for got hit by lightning through the cable modem. Blew the modem, the router, the switch stack, the 32-port serial server, and every serial device connected to it. Shipping terminals, label printers, all the printers in the printer room, including crazy-expensive high-speed multi-part-form tractor feed printers... Yeah, that was a fat bill.

My favorite is when it goes thru the switch. One of the technicians tried removing 48 Ethernet cables only to discover they were all fused to the switch.
 

CoogarXR

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My favorite is when it goes thru the switch. One of the technicians tried removing 48 Ethernet cables only to discover they were all fused to the switch.
I couldn't believe it only cooked the switches themselves, and nothing attached to them. The serial devices weren't so lucky though.
 

LopezBart

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Lopez Island, WA
Note that Ethernet ports are optically isolated; serial ports are not. I saw a factory-hardened Vax that was destroyed when someone used a welder's extension cord w/ a cut-off ground prong to plug in equipment connected via a serial port to the Vax. 120VAC on the serial ports did a lot of damage. Management went through the factory removing all the cheater plugs....
 

BrandonV

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Note that Ethernet ports are optically isolated; serial ports are not. I saw a factory-hardened Vax that was destroyed when someone used a welder's extension cord w/ a cut-off ground prong to plug in equipment connected via a serial port to the Vax. 120VAC on the serial ports did a lot of damage. Management went through the factory removing all the cheater plugs....

Most Ethernet ports are isolated using magnetics that are designed to withstand 1500 VAC at grid frequency for around 1 minute per IEEE standards.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Modesto, CA
I don't think any amount of bonding/grounding will protect from a close lighting strike.
it does every day on microwave and cell towers which i work on.

skyscrapers in large cities (like NY) take lightning hits all the time and nothing in the building is destroyed. you can even find videos of the strikes hitting the electrodes on the top of the building
 
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minytrker

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Brenham TX
Backstory on the house, built in 1986 and previous owner always had electronics getting burned up in storms to the point he left everything unplugged unless he was using it. When I bought the house 15 plus years ago I gutted it completely, rewired most of it, new breaker box in the house and also new service loop and main breaker on the pole. This is the first time since then we have lost a single item in a storm. The transformer was also struck before and blew parts of it all over my yard a few years ago. Even when that happened we didnt lose anything.

So its official every switch or device plugged into my 24 port switch is burned up. I had one switch that would light up but finally tested it today and it doesnt work either.

I was able to take the tmobile internet out of my camper and do some serious rigging and get internet back in my office and shop but my new equipment wont be here until Saturday.
 

dscheidt

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I don't think any amount of bonding/grounding will protect from a close lighting strike.
Nothing you can afford, anyway. They put a cellular antenna on the smoke stack of the building my office was in a few years ago. they cut out a section of the slab, did something in the hole, and repoured it. They ran a giant bare cable from the antenna (or air terminals on the antenna and stack), and 500 MCM cables to the building transformers and incoming water and gas pipes, and cad welded it all together on a wire coming out of the slab, connecting to whatever they'd buried.

Rather more years ago than that, I worked at Motorola, providing cell site support to phone companies. I had to get replacement equipment to a site that took a direct hit; which was a bit unusual, sites get hit all the time, and usually there's no damage. the lightning came down the big cable, and came to a bend. It decided that going around the bend was harder than arcing to the rack of radio gear. They had pictures, you could see the walls had some blackening, and then the jump to the blown apart cabinet[1]. There was no dispute about that, there was dispute about whether the lightning protection was designed wrong, not installed to spec, or the equipment was too close to the bonding wire, etc.

[1] there was damage to stuff on the other side of the room from shrapnel.
 

rlitman

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it does every day on microwave and cell towers which i work on.

skyscrapers in large cities (like NY) take lightning hits all the time and nothing in the building is destroyed. you can even find videos of the strikes hitting the electrodes on the top of the building
I've been in electrical closets in one of those skyscraper's power risers. The grounding cables were impressive! My understanding is this is partly for lightning protection, but also as a ground reference for the broadcast antennas.

I don't think any amount of bonding/grounding will protect from a close lighting strike.
I'll disagree. Look into IEC 62305. Lightning protection systems to prevent structural damage were well documented by Benjamin Franklin. UL 96 and NFPA 780 codify this knowledge today. IEC has taken it to the next level, showing how to protect modern electronics from direct strikes.

Suffice it to say (from what I can shoehorn into a single post) that with an air terminal network and down-leads to take the brunt of the direct strike energy and with proper structural bonding to prevent flashover, off the shelf SPD/TVSS can and does protect your electronics within the protected envelope of those air terminals. This also means that the same SPD will protect against nearby strikes.

The biggest risk is when lightning directly strikes your equipment bypassing your LPS downleads. UL 96 terminal heights and spacing are based around an assumption of a 150' rolling sphere. For those not familiar with the concept, I'll put it this way. Current code for the spacing between railing balusters is that they must be tight enough to prevent a 4" diameter ball from passing between them. That's to prevent a child's head from fitting between balusters. Well with lightning, we make the assumption that it takes the form of a sphere 150' in radius. Rest that hypothetical sphere on your terminals, or roll it on the ground up to them, and anything under it that cannot be reached by the sphere is protected by those terminals.

What's interesting is where that sphere visualization was derived. Lightning (for the most part), travels down from the sky as a stepped leader until it's close to the ground, where an arc will be initiated from the ground up to meet it (the streamer). The distance the streamer will travel from the ground depends directly on the strike energy. Based on data collected in the field, around 90% of all strikes are 10kA or higher in peak current, and those 10kA strikes have streamers around 150' in length. And that's where the 150' rolling sphere came from.

The interesting part is that higher strike peak currents come with longer streamers, which means that the protected area is LARGER. At the extreme end, a 200kA strike has a streamer of over 1000', so you could visualize the protection of an air terminal using a 1000' rolling sphere, and the area under its canopy is immense.

3kA strikes make up about 1% of lightning strikes, but they only have 65' streamers, so they can reach into tighter spaces.

Which goes to show that lightning and intuition just don't go hand in hand.

Nothing you can afford, anyway.
I wouldn't say that. Lightning protection system costs are directly related to the structure height. I've seen stuff small enough to protect a single historic tree, and it's anything but spectacular. Woven aluminum "Class 1" downlead for buildings under 75' in height is 10.5mm in diameter, which makes it comparable to 3/0 wire. The woven stuff lays more easily and weighs less, but 3/0 should be no worse otherwise, and that's well under $2/foot.
 

Busted_Knuckles

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Northwest Illinois
Went through this many years ago, as a result, even though Im running APCs on the important stuff, when I see/hear electric weather coming, I start throwing breakers and unplugging everything.

I had a strike in my front yard, hit the transformer, it even melted my telephones ( google it ), as well set my garage door opener on fire. State Farm replaced every item and appliance in the house.
 

cycle61

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Apr 5, 2020
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Middle of Oregon
I'll disagree. Look into IEC 62305. Lightning protection systems to prevent structural damage were well documented by Benjamin Franklin. UL 96 and NFPA 780 codify this knowledge today. IEC has taken it to the next level, showing how to protect modern electronics from direct strikes.

Suffice it to say (from what I can shoehorn into a single post) that with an air terminal network and down-leads to take the brunt of the direct strike energy and with proper structural bonding to prevent flashover, off the shelf SPD/TVSS can and does protect your electronics within the protected envelope of those air terminals. This also means that the same SPD will protect against nearby strikes.

The biggest risk is when lightning directly strikes your equipment bypassing your LPS downleads. UL 96 terminal heights and spacing are based around an assumption of a 150' rolling sphere. For those not familiar with the concept, I'll put it this way. Current code for the spacing between railing balusters is that they must be tight enough to prevent a 4" diameter ball from passing between them. That's to prevent a child's head from fitting between balusters. Well with lightning, we make the assumption that it takes the form of a sphere 150' in radius. Rest that hypothetical sphere on your terminals, or roll it on the ground up to them, and anything under it that cannot be reached by the sphere is protected by those terminals.

What's interesting is where that sphere visualization was derived. Lightning (for the most part), travels down from the sky as a stepped leader until it's close to the ground, where an arc will be initiated from the ground up to meet it (the streamer). The distance the streamer will travel from the ground depends directly on the strike energy. Based on data collected in the field, around 90% of all strikes are 10kA or higher in peak current, and those 10kA strikes have streamers around 150' in length. And that's where the 150' rolling sphere came from.

The interesting part is that higher strike peak currents come with longer streamers, which means that the protected area is LARGER. At the extreme end, a 200kA strike has a streamer of over 1000', so you could visualize the protection of an air terminal using a 1000' rolling sphere, and the area under its canopy is immense.

3kA strikes make up about 1% of lightning strikes, but they only have 65' streamers, so they can reach into tighter spaces.

Which goes to show that lightning and intuition just don't go hand in hand.

I wouldn't say that. Lightning protection system costs are directly related to the structure height. I've seen stuff small enough to protect a single historic tree, and it's anything but spectacular. Woven aluminum "Class 1" downlead for buildings under 75' in height is 10.5mm in diameter, which makes it comparable to 3/0 wire. The woven stuff lays more easily and weighs less, but 3/0 should be no worse otherwise, and that's well under $2/foot.

This is the kind of detailed, specific knowledge that I love finding in these kinds of threads. Well done, internet.
 

cycle61

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Apr 5, 2020
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Middle of Oregon
I had to get replacement equipment to a site that took a direct hit; which was a bit unusual, sites get hit all the time, and usually there's no damage. the lightning came down the big cable, and came to a bend. It decided that going around the bend was harder than arcing to the rack of radio gear. They had pictures, you could see the walls had some blackening, and then the jump to the blown apart cabinet[1]. There was no dispute about that, there was dispute about whether the lightning protection was designed wrong, not installed to spec, or the equipment was too close to the bonding wire, etc.

[1] there was damage to stuff on the other side of the room from shrapnel.
Really high voltage does some weird stuff, and definitely doesn't behave the way we might intuitively expect. Like jumping an air gap instead of going around a curve in the cable. Oops.

This is another favorite, although at only 15,000 volts it isn't nearly as crazy. The sharp corner of the metal block acted to concentrate the voltage gradient in the surrounding air, which then went on to erode the nearby insulation one molecule at a time over the course of several years of service.

1721870010462.png
 

wyliesdiesels

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Messages
19,998
Location
Modesto, CA
Really high voltage does some weird stuff, and definitely doesn't behave the way we might intuitively expect. Like jumping an air gap instead of going around a curve in the cable. Oops.

This is another favorite, although at only 15,000 volts it isn't nearly as crazy. The sharp corner of the metal block acted to concentrate the voltage gradient in the surrounding air, which then went on to erode the nearby insulation one molecule at a time over the course of several years of service.

1721870010462.png
Wow what is the orange blob?
 
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