Lights flickering on another circuit.

[mm08822]

So this is what I should show the guy? Pic Found on line Looks like a ton of work to get from where I am to here. Other than it looks GJ pretty as long as it’s safe and functional to I need to burn $ to pretty up my panel ?

You want to be halfway between this and what you have.
(It's wrong anyway. It shouldn't have the green bonding screw.)

 

[Bert_]

So this is what I should show the guy? Pic Found on line Looks like a ton of work to get from where I am to here. Other than it looks GJ pretty as long as it’s safe and functional to I need to burn $ to pretty up my panel ?

Looks don't guarantee a good job. But the guy that does a good job usually takes a little pride in how it looks. We make assumptions because 9 times out of 10 they're accurate.

The panel in that picture is to the point of wasting time.

 

[rlitman]

So from what I am reading and AFCI breaker would have popped when there was arcing to protect from a potential fire ? Is there a down side from using all AFCI breakers ?

An AFCI should trip when it senses the electrical signature of an arc on its connected circuit (somewhere else in your house, where arcing is much more dangerous). I don't know what would happen when the arc is on the bus, but that's not within their design requirements.

 

[mikedodge]

Lower level (slab is lowest) House was rewired after hurricane sandy. Had 4’ of water in the house. Previous renovated kitchen required significant power upgrades. That’s it.

It seems like your licensed electricians are partially responsible for how it looks now. Think twice before using them for the new work.

 

[Jsf721]

An AFCI should trip when it senses the electrical signature of an arc on its connected circuit (somewhere else in your house, where arcing is much more dangerous). I don't know what would happen when the arc is on the bus, but that's not within their design requirements.

If you were putting in a new system, would you use these or traditional breakers?

 

[Codyboy]

So this is what I should show the guy? Pic Found on line Looks like a ton of work to get from where I am to here. Other than it looks GJ pretty as long as it’s safe and functional to I need to burn $ to pretty up my panel ?

Yes show him that and say just like " this"!

Ok. I'll call the POCO and get you some 3 phase to the house.
Probably run you around $20k.

 

[Jsf721]

Yes show him that and say just like " this"!

Ok. I'll call the POCO and get you some 3 phase to the house.
Probably run you around $20k.

Looking for good safe -serviceable system. Not looking for a 20k system by a long shot.

 

[PCustoms]

Looking for good safe -serviceable system. Not looking for a 20k system by a long shot.

That was sarcasm.

You posted a 3 phase panel. You do not have 3 phase.

 

[Bert_]

If you were putting in a new system, would you use these or traditional breakers?

Given the choice? Standard breakers everywhere.

 

[Jsf721]

Given the choice? Standard breakers everywhere.

Can you explain why? Are you forgoing some
Modern safety features?

 

[Gozo]

Given the choice? Standard breakers everywhere.

If doing that much work, might as well take advantage of the safety features available.
I redid some circuits and added some over the years (without inspections - shhh..) and used AFCI on the bedroom circuits and GFCI on those near water (bathrooms, dishwasher, laundry). Found out they’re not exactly what’s expected - the GFCI breakers would trip seemingly randomly. Turns out the ham radio operator next door would cause them to trip. He was helpful in running some tests with me to verify. Contacted Eaton and it was a known problem. They had special breakers with -HAM in the suffix for exactly this problem. Kudos to them; they sent replacement breakers at no cost.
Might as well get it done right. As the years go by, you’ll care less. Not necessarily a good thing.

 

[JohnX14]

Whatever the local requirements are, you need to live by or take on risk.
A permit required to replace a cb would easily triple the cost of a simple repair.

What great way to loose jobs. You know the next guy called won't pull a permit.

And how did the permit policia find out?

Well this situation wasn't typical. My friend the electrician got a call from a friend who hired a different electrician for a service change. The different electrician put in all used breakers. One was defective. My friend the electrician changed it. The customer called the different electrician and bitched. Different electrician reported my friend to the state. True story.

With that said, yes I've done lots of small jobs that technically require a permit and have weighed the risk/ reward.

Another MA tidbit.....permits are only required for electricians for hire. If I come change your circuit breaker and don't charge you, I'm not required to get a permit. If I come wire your entire house for no charge, I don't need a permit. This has been tested and brought to the State Board. (Not by me) And the layers get deeper. The work still needs to comply with state code. But who is checking?? Unless I'm wiring your new house. Then the building inspector can't sign off until rough wiring is signed off...but there is no permit.... so what to do?? (There are several options)

 

[rlitman]

Can you explain why? Are you forgoing some
Modern safety features?

AFCI breakers don't have the best reputation, because they're known to false trip and fail. On the bright side, they err on the side of safety, but that still upsets some people when they can't reset a failed breaker and they want power now.

I don't see a compelling reason to re-wire my house with them, if that's what you're asking. I did put a couple of combination afci/gfci outlets in two of my house's bedrooms, where wires could be uncomfortably lose to bedding (combustible materials), and I haven't had an issue with them yet.

 

[Bert_]

Can you explain why? Are you forgoing some
Modern safety features?

I don't feel the need to line the pockets of the breaker manufacturer.

Most electrical fires are caused by a high resistance connection. No arcing actually takes place. An afci cannot detect this.

Afci's "sound good" in theory. It's debatable weather they actually prevent any meaningful amount of fires.

In your case the arcing happened at the bus bar, before the breaker. Had it been an afci breaker I have doubts if it would have tripped.

 

[Jsf721]

So I had my whole Panel replaced. Cleaned up quite a bit and hopefully this just installed panel will last another at least another 20 years. The one that was replaced was from 1984. House built in 1963.

Work was completed by a licensed and insured electrician and so far all is well and I have an accurately labeled panel.

 

[mm08822]

The only thing cleaned up is the extension cord..........WOW!

 

[mm08822]

Did he forget his card that day? WTF!!!



Is there a green bonding screw in the panel anywhere (installed that is)?

Got any more pics?

 

[PCustoms]

Did he forget his card that day? WTF!!!



Is there a green bonding screw in the panel anywhere (installed that is)?

Got any more pics?

I thought it was just me....

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have been living here since 1991 and I have never had anyone but a licensed electrician work on the box or any electric in my home.

yikes! they didnt do a good job then

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So from what I am reading and AFCI breaker would have popped when there was arcing to protect from a potential fire ? Is there a down side from using all AFCI breakers ?

no. an AFCI breaker cannot sense or protect anything upstream of the breaker. so arcing on the bus would not cause the breaker to trip.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Did he forget his card that day? WTF!!!



Is there a green bonding screw in the panel anywhere (installed that is)?

Got any more pics?

horrible work but im curious what comes after the meter. is there a disco or just straight into this panel? if theres a disco then it should be 4-wire and there is only 3.

too bad the OP hasnt come back in almost a month

 

[Jsf721]

horrible work but im curious what comes after the meter. is there a disco or just straight into this panel? if theres a disco then it should be 4-wire and there is only 3.

too bad the OP hasnt come back in almost a month

I came back as soon as the work was completed.

There is a green screw at the top, I do remember seeing it during the install.

There are several red circles but I do not know what the issue they are showing is as I am not educated on electric at all.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I came back as soon as the work was completed.

Im talking about you not coming back to this thread.

There is a green screw at the top, I do remember seeing it during the install.

There are several red circles but I do not know what the issue they are showing is as I am not educated on electric at all.

Can you take a pic of your meter and any discos upstream of the panel pictured

 

[mm08822]

It doesn't get any better looking at it a day later.....

Did he drill out the upper right hole in the cover to make the screw fit when attaching cover?

What is the catalog number from the label inside the cover?

 

[dave*99]

There are several red circles but I do not know what the issue they are showing is as I am not educated on electric at all.

The problems in your electrical panel are mechanical in nature. Bent metal, missing screws, crooked fittings, missing parts on fittings, wires bent at extreme angles and poor attention to detail.

My point is take a good hard look at what is in front of you.