Lights, Radio interference

[gdchapma]

Hey guys, I recently put nine t8 light fixtures (4 lights in each) in my garage. Now I can’t listen to FM radio at all with the light on. The radio works fine till you turn on the lights. The interference almost completely cuts the radio out. Any ideas? Anyone else have this problem? Any fixes? I can only listen to my old cassettes from the 80’s so many times.

 

[ddawg16]

You need to determine if the noise is RF or induced via the wall plug. Those new T8's most likely are using electronic ballasts....which put out a lot more RFI.

Is the radio battery powered? If you get it with the radio on batteries then it really cuts down the options.

If you get the noise only when it's plugged into the wall socket in the garage...then you can most likely solve the problem by installing an RFI line filter between the radio and wall socket.

You might want to check the antenna to make sure it's making a good connection. If there is poor reception then the front end gain on the reciver is a lot higher which means it is also sucking up the RFI from the lights. You might be able to help the problem by installing a higher gain antenna outside the garage.

Or you can just go with XM radio.

 

[sajohnson]

Good advice from ddawg16.

I'm surprised to hear about your problem. I've got several T8 fixtures in my garage with electronic ballasts and haven't had any trouble. Come to think of it though, I've probably never had an AC powered radio out there -- usually I use the radio or CD player in one of the cars.

Have you tried other radios (both AC and DC powered) to see if you still get interference?

 

[gdchapma]

Well, I can't use any radio in the garage. I have tried the cars and the battery powered radios. I guess i will set up a computer in there and listen to Sirius. Thanks for the replies.

Gary

 

[sajohnson]

One thing to check (as mentioned above by someone else) is whether the cases of the lights are grounded.

Now that they're installed I'm sure you don't want to swap them for other fixtures but that seems very strange. I haven't heard of anyone else having this problem. Most fluorescent lights do not interfere with radio reception (and probably couldn't be sold if they did).

 

[Woodsrider]

Funny you should mention this. I have the same problem. I installed my new cabinets and then got a cheap t8 light fixture for the bench. I couldn't listen to the radio either when the light was on. I thought it was just because it was a cheapo fixture so I returned it. My radio is a portable plug in unit about 15ft away from the fixture.
Not sure about what to do, probably go with a better radio and an outside antenna.

 

[sajohnson]

Funny you should mention this. I have the same problem. I installed my new cabinets and then got a cheap t8 light fixture for the bench. I couldn't listen to the radio either when the light was on. I thought it was just because it was a cheapo fixture so I returned it. My radio is a portable plug in unit about 15ft away from the fixture.
Not sure about what to do, probably go with a better radio and an outside antenna.

Did you try a different fixture while using the same radio?

 

[Woodsrider]

I exchanged the one I had for another of the same make and it did the same thing. Tomorrow I'm going to go pick up a different make of fixture and try that. I should also mention that these are plug in fixtures.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Its apparent the radio is being affected by the Radio Frequency interference being emitted by the lights, since your car radios are also affected. I'll have to agree with others, make sure you have good grounds all the way back to the ground rod. This would mean a three wire cord and three prong plug with the ground hooked up in the light (and make sure the paint is scraped off so you get a real connection) and insure that the electrical receptacle has the ground wire properly connected and is connected properly at the panel also.

Charles

 

[OneNut]

I also ran into this problem, I installed 8 plug in T8 lights, turn lights on and no radio, I replaced the fixtures with the T12 and radio works fine.

 

[ScaldedDog]

Have any of you affected your neighbor's radios with fluorescent lights? If so, how close were your neighbors?

Mark

 

[Woodsrider]

Update:
I went to Canadian Tire and bought a T8 workshop light fixture, put the bulbs in that I had and turned the light on. Absolutely no radio interference. Same radio station, same radio in the same spot.
My interference was caused by a poorly made light fixture. I paid $40 for the first ones from Home Depot and this one I got at Canadian Tire on clearance for $18.

 

[RacerX]

Once again, the lack of quality of stuff at home despot *****.
Not everything, mind you, but a lot of it is low quality **** and this thread proved it agian.

I just bought 8 - 4 bulb T5 units from a wholesale electric warehouse with daylight bulbs and no interference whatsoever.

Update:
I went to Canadian Tire and bought a T8 workshop light fixture, put the bulbs in that I had and turned the light on. Absolutely no radio interference. Same radio station, same radio in the same spot.
My interference was caused by a poorly made light fixture. I paid $40 for the first ones from Home Depot and this one I got at Canadian Tire on clearance for $18.

 

[Woodsrider]

It was the Lithonia brand. Looks like the only brand of fluorescent lights they carry. Just junk.
http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...e+matchall&recN=112580 5&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

 

[sajohnson]

It seems like this problem is more common than I thought. Granted, we've only heard from three people who've had issues (the OP, Woodsrider, and OneNut) but that's a significant number considering the limited number of people who've seen this thread, read it, and decided to post.

I kind of went nuts with my garage since I'd wanted one since I was about 14 and I'd been working outside on gravel most of my life. When it came to the lights, I bought 16 eight (8) foot long fixtures (4 rows of 4) with electronic ballasts, and 32 high output (HO) daylight (6,500 degrees K) T8 lamps. I got them from an electrical supply place (Tri-State?) and at the time, electronic ballasts were relatively new (at least in full size hard wired fixtures I guess). They had to be special ordered and the guy at the store tried to talk me out of getting them saying that electronic ballasts were unreliable.

It's been about 10 years now and no problems. No 60 Hz hum, no RFI, and they turn on almost instantly even when cold. Maybe there were some problems with the early ones that made the guy at the store not trust them.

It sounds like the RFI problem may be limited to mostly cheap plug-in fixtures. Still, they shouldn't be sold if they are creating that much noise. My guess is this is just below the FCC's radar (or whichever agency should be concerned with RFI from fluorescent fixtures).

Those of you who've had problems might consider shooting an email to the FCC. Couldn't hurt, and who knows -- maybe they will do something about it and prevent others from having the same troubles.

Out of curiosity, where were these noisy fixtures made? My guess would be China. It's long past time that we crack down hard on them (and large multi-national corporations) for selling us poorly made, dangerous, and often deadly products.

Makes me wonder if these fixtures are even UL listed. UL labels are among the many things the Chinese have counterfeited in the past. That's why UL went to those hologram labels but I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese have copied those now and are slapping them on lots of electrical items.

I really hope those of you who have this problem contact the FCC (just copying some of what you've posted here would cover most of what you need to say) and maybe UL, Consumer's Union (CU, publishers of CR magazine), and the Consumer Product Safety Commission, etc.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Out of curiosity, where were these noisy fixtures made? My guess would be China. It's long past time that we crack down hard on them (and large multi-national corporations) for selling us poorly made, dangerous, and often deadly products.

Over 70% of the light fixtures made in the entire world, are made in an industrial zone near the port of Shanghi, in a several square mile area. It is very difficult to find a light fixture that is NOT made in China.

Charles

 

[sajohnson]

That doesn't surprise me.

It seems that (as with lifts and other products) there is a wide range of quality when it comes to Chinese goods.

I've got a Chinese made 2 1/2 ton floor jack that I bought from Northern or Harbor Freight maybe 15 years ago that's still working fine, but it seems like China is the new Taiwan (or Japan for anyone old enough to remember).

If it turns out to be impossible to find a fixture that's not made in China, then the next best bet would be to buy some that have a good name on them and make sure they can be returned if there's a problem.

I'm glad mine aren't noisy (RFI or 60 Hz hum) because I wasn't smart enough to power one up before installing them all. That would have been a major PITA -- ripping 16 fixtures down off a 13' ceiling.

Word to the wise I guess.

 

[OneNut]

Yes I did get the lights from HD here are the spec's from there site....
I wish I'd had looked up more info before buying the T-8 fixtures

info from HD site
Task lighting fixture that can be easily installed in workshops, storage areas, attics, basements and garages and suitable for cold weather applications. This 1 X 4 ft., 2-lamp deluxe shop light is fully wired and comes with a heavy duty chain hanger, a pull chain switch, a 6-1/2 in. reflector to maximize its illuminating power and a 5 ft. cord and plug. It has a 120 volt ballast and uses two 32 watt T8 lamps.

2-lamp deluxe shop light
120 volt
Uses (2) 32 watt T8 lamps
UL listed
MFG Brand Name : Lithonia Lighting
MFG Model # : 1241 GESB CS1W S1
MFG Part # : 1241 GESB

 

[Woodsrider]

Yes I did get the lights from HD..
MFG Brand Name : Lithonia Lighting

Yep, same brand as me. That's your problem right there. Time to send a letter to HD.

 

[Jim Dawson]

I bouight my T-8 lights from Lowe's and have the same problem.

 

[sajohnson]

Yes I did get the lights from HD here are the spec's from there site....
I wish I'd had looked up more info before buying the T-8 fixtures

info from HD site
Task lighting fixture that can be easily installed in workshops, storage areas, attics, basements and garages and suitable for cold weather applications. This 1 X 4 ft., 2-lamp deluxe shop light is fully wired and comes with a heavy duty chain hanger, a pull chain switch, a 6-1/2 in. reflector to maximize its illuminating power and a 5 ft. cord and plug. It has a 120 volt ballast and uses two 32 watt T8 lamps.

2-lamp deluxe shop light
120 volt
Uses (2) 32 watt T8 lamps
UL listed
MFG Brand Name : Lithonia Lighting
MFG Model # : 1241 GESB CS1W S1
MFG Part # : 1241 GESB

I'll have to see if I can find the paperwork, but I think my 8' fixtures were made (or at least sold) by Lithonia and I haven't had this problem. They make a lot of lighting products and like many mfrs their products probably vary quite a bit in quality.

The fixtures were special order and they weren't cheap. Even though I bought 16 of them, they were between $50 and $60 each, IIRC -- and that was maybe 10 years ago. Chances are, anything at Home Depot or Lowe's will be a cheaper line. I know I've heard that about paint and other products sold at the big box stores. The top rated paints and stains often aren't available there, even though they carry that brand.

 

[kbs2244]

I have never been real choosey about lights.
I use only 4 foot bulbs since they are cheap and easy to find, but that is my only requirement.
I have a mix of bought new and used fixtures of unknown origins.
The bulbs are bought based on price only.
I do have a buzz on some AM stations when they are first turned on, but it goes away when they have warmed up.
I have no problems with FM stations at any times, but I have installed a cheap “T” antenna made from the old style flat TV wire.
Most radios have a spot on the back to add a AM antenna.
It is just a piece of wire of any length run up the wall.
It will do wonders, but I do not use it in my shop.
I am about 40 to 50 miles from most of the broadcast antennas.

 

[estanley]

I've got the same problem. I've got 10 4 foot T8 lights bought from Lowes in my 24X30. I spent most of the day yesterday trying different approaches to at an antenna solotion that would fix the problem. Below is a summary of my efforts.

Shielded coax cable running outside the shop to an FM antenna with the coax grounded outside. Grounded the case of the reciever to a seperate ground outside the building. The electrical circuit the radio is plugged into is seperate from any of the lighting circuits. Upgraded from portable radio to two different Philips surround sound systems.

None of my efforts made any difference. Only when I moved the receiver over to a window and had the antenna running through the window direclty outside did I find any difference.

When I pull a vehicle into the shop with the lights on the radio goes to static as soon as it enters the shop. It is a metal building but the radio reception is fine with the lights off. At this point I am really frustrated and don't know what to do next.

 

[moogoob]

I have 5 t8 fixtures. My wireless network see no issue with it. Next time the car is in there, I'll try the radio.

These are the $18 home depots.

 

[sajohnson]

I've got the same problem. I've got 10 4 foot T8 lights bought from Lowes in my 24X30. I spent most of the day yesterday trying different approaches to at an antenna solotion that would fix the problem. Below is a summary of my efforts.

Shielded coax cable running outside the shop to an FM antenna with the coax grounded outside. Grounded the case of the reciever to a seperate ground outside the building. The electrical circuit the radio is plugged into is seperate from any of the lighting circuits. Upgraded from portable radio to two different Philips surround sound systems.

None of my efforts made any difference. Only when I moved the receiver over to a window and had the antenna running through the window direclty outside did I find any difference.

When I pull a vehicle into the shop with the lights on the radio goes to static as soon as it enters the shop. It is a metal building but the radio reception is fine with the lights off. At this point I am really frustrated and don't know what to do next.

You've tried just about everything I can think of.

Would it be possible to run an extension cord from another source of power -- an outlet connected to the main panel (or an inverter if you have one) rather than the garage panel? Of course, even if this solves the problem you don't want an extension cord permanently run to the garage, but it would determine whether the AC supply is the source of the noise. If it is, maybe a high quality surge suppressor/noise filter would work. That, or an isolation transformer.

That said, from what you posted I'm guessing it's RFI.

How far was/is the outside antenna from the garage? Is it possible to move it further away?

What type of coax did you use? You might find that RG6 "Quad Shield" would reduce the noise.

Finally, (and maybe before buying any Quad Shield) you might try putting the radio/receiver inside a metal box or cabinet and grounding the cabinet. Also, you might try grounding the radio/receiver. Many of them have a ground screw on the rear panel.

Let us know if you solve the problem.

Good luck!

 

[Torque1st]

On the subject of Home Depot lights. -Don't buy those NVision Compact Fluorescent bulbs they sell at Home Depot. They just don't last worth beans. As an alternative buy the GE bulbs which last a long time.

Another way to kill the life on CF bulbs is to screw them into a live socket. The built in electronic ballast will arc and spark when the bulb starts to make contact damaging the electronics. Always kill the power to the socket before installing them.

 

[ersatzs2]

I just found this thread but I've had this problem since day one. The 4' lights under my loft area cause the radio to go solid static. The 8' lights over the workbench don't affect it. The electrician is supposed to come back this week some time to check it out. I'll print out some of these posts for him, then report back when we get it resolved.

 

[bobs409]

One of my new 8' lights did this when new. After using it for a few hours, it no longer happens. Maybe it needed to get broken in?


Bob

 

[ultgar]

Try purchasing fixtures with low THD (<10%) electronic ballasts. I have some fairly inexpensive T8 (48") wraparounds (approx $45ea without lamps) that I use in my office.

 

[BrianAltenhofel]

I've only had that problem once in my garage with the $8 fixtures from Wallyworld. All that was wrong was the ballast wasn't properly grounded. All flourescent lights emit a ton of RFI (compared to other electronics). Decent quality audio equipment will provide a good amount of RFI rejection.

 

[rocco]

this thread is the reason i preach to no buy the Lights at home depot and lowe or comparable stores. they have residenial grade electronic ballasts that have much higher THD levels then the comparable commercial quality units. my suggestion is to change out the ballasts for quality units.

 

[sajohnson]

I've only had that problem once in my garage with the $8 fixtures from Wallyworld. All that was wrong was the ballast wasn't properly grounded. All flourescent lights emit a ton of RFI (compared to other electronics). Decent quality audio equipment will provide a good amount of RFI rejection.

Interesting.

So what did you do -- attach a ground wire to the ballast mounting hardware?

 

[Vicious_Cycle]

I have 20 8-foot T-8's with four 4-foot bulbs each. I avoided Lowe's and Home Depot and instead bought from the local electrical supply house. I think the brand is Lithonia (bought them a year ago- can't remember for sure- but that sounds right). I think the fixtures were about $25-30 each.

I can listen to the radio, no problem. Or I can see what I'm doing. Not both.

 

[moogoob]

I have 5 T8 4' lithonia fixtures from home depot.

Car radio works perfectly with lights on or off.

 

[Palmetto]

I have 20 8-foot T-8's with four 4-foot bulbs each. I avoided Lowe's and Home Depot and instead bought from the local electrical supply house. I think the brand is Lithonia (bought them a year ago- can't remember for sure- but that sounds right). I think the fixtures were about $25-30 each.

I can listen to the radio, no problem. Or I can see what I'm doing. Not both.

x2

*****!!!!

I have XM in my truck. I use the RoadyXT, which is an FM modulator. So, I can get my truck close to my shop (withing 15'), and dial in the same fm station on my shop radio, and get XM thru it.

As far as my radio goes, I am using a 10 yr old (or more) walmart special boom box.

 

[moogoob]

Is is the lights alone, or the wiring?

 

[RacerX]

It's the ballasts / bulb combination

 

[BusNutBob]

Just found this thread, but have experienced the electronic ballast vs. radio problem for years. My lights are all T8's grounded properly with neutral and separate grounds. My ballasts are made in China with the brand name Osram Sylvania. I actually have done several lighting upgrades in factories to reduce power consumption, so all of my fixtures are retrofitted to make them T8. When they were T12's, of course there was no radio interference.

From my experience, some electronic ballasts interfere and some don't. In my shop (very old remodeled metal sided and metal roofed barn), the only way a radio will play without static is if it is located about six feet from any electronic ballast lights that are turned on. In fact I used to have the radio in a far corner and ran the speakers to the work area. Tried locating the radio above the lights on the second floor, but this did not work.

If someone can arrive at a good solution to this problem I sure would be glad to hear it.

 

[ultgar]

I try to use fixtures with low THD ballasts (10% of less)....no noise or interference with shop electronics. You can also buy the ballasts separately...eg, http://eqas.mysylvania.com/content/display.scfx?id=003686587 .

For low voltage fixtures, toroidal transformers (remote or local) are best.
SD

 

[Hi-Line Performance]

Greetings Gang,
I joined just to add some comments to this thread.
What a nightmare Ive had lately. But I can add some details to this issue that may help some others..
I recently replaced 2 ballasts in my garage with GE model, 432 ultra max., price was cheap <$20 each, (I know why now).. The Ballasts I took out were the origionals, Advance brand. Well as luck would have it, I now cant pick up a any radio stations. When the lights are off life is good. I also verified the ballasts are externally grounded to the lighting fixture. As I had zero issue before these new ballasts were installed, I do blame these units. And I have replaced the Advanced units with Advanced units from Lowes with no issues .
I will have to try 2 more tests before I can sleep soundly again at night. Test 1 is a battery powered Radio, Test 2 is verify that the wired radio and the lights are not on the same 110 power leg.
Thanks Again,
This is a nice forum, I have lurked here for years.
Erik Yager