Above 1200 Sq/FT LilScorpion’s Fab Space

[lilscorpion]

I like how good the copper pipes look in the same plane.
Your work on the conduit looks so clean that it makes the copper transition really stand out (in the wrong way).

On the upper water line tee, you could point it straight up and then transition to a threaded stainless water heater hose to make the 180* turn down. By routing it behind the pipes, it might help it blend into the background a bit. (You could always use malleable copper tubing instead, but I think the stainless hose would look better.)

Alternatively, they make a "compression crossover coupling" but it doesn't look any better (and they aren't cheap).
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/couplings/shape~crossover/

Agreed. I really like them in the same plane as well. Clean copper adds a dimension that the conduit just doesn’t. Starts to feel like art even. You and I are thinking alike on the stainless flex tube. I’ll post an update in a minute.

Without knowing the spacing between the pipes, but maybe another option is to have a Tee pointing up and then make a U shape turn with copper tubing and fittings that will angle the drop between the two lines. Just a thought if a street 90 doesn't fit in the tight area.

I’ve been looking for U’s and can’t believe it’s not a fitting that exists. I suspect that’s because hydraulic pressure doesn’t require subtle transitions and two 90’s are cheaper to make and accomplish the same function. Just a guess tho.

 

[CGohring]

Since the two copper pipes are vertically on top of each other, and you have enough space to run 45 degrees down off the front, you should have the same space to run this 45 degrees off the back (rotate the Tee you have on the horisontal 270 degrees backwards) Then run that at 45 degrees until you get back to the same plane as the conduit and then another 45 straight down?

 

[rattle_snake]

Pull the drywall now? Fawk.

Given the busy and stressful situation you have yourself in (also a great situation, congrats!) I figured someone from the peanut galley should suggest the nuclear option.

If it helps, I did surface conduit on open studs. Then when bank account recovered I ripped it all out and did romex/plastic boxes, insulation and drywall/sheetmetal. But I can easily remove the lower 4 feet to add or change anything. Has come in handy a few times now for A/C install and 220V expansion.

Some good ideas posted for most-bestest OCD routing good luck.

 

[lilscorpion]

Was poking around a bit. Plan for water was to tie into the 3/4 Pex line that runs from the utilities room in the basement right next to where I ran the electrical…this is the view in the basement looking up into the joists



And then thru the floor under the sink cabinets in the laundry room.



The up the wall and over to the main wall and other garage.



Until I noticed this…behind the insulation in the box where the garage’s radiant heat manifold is happens to be the same water line.



So now the T in that cluttered corner can be just a 90 straight down…more on that in a minute.

Here’s where I got, not bad I think. Started with a street 90 and T…

Little history about me - way back in my early 20’s I spent a minute doing irrigation work. Learned some tricks for soldering more or less out of survival when fixing water breaks at the bottom of a 6’ muddy hole at 2am. Probably the biggest trick is that you can solder multiple joints in one go bottom to top, no problem.



Then, when in close proximity to already soldered joints get a rag and get it soaking wet.



Get setup with everything where you need it. I’m cheating here not having to be in a muddy hole.



Wrap the closest soldered joint to the ones you need to solder. Let the towel be dripping a$$ wet. The goal is to keep the heat out of the soldered joint below. If you don’t, the solder will run out if that joint.



Solder as you do. Heat the fitting, solder lowest to highest (heat rises).



Then you take an installation pic quick so little imperfections in the soldering aren’t obviously visible.

 

[Madc]

Absolutely LOVE-LOVE all your threads and the organization. Ive been admiring and stealing ideas from a distance for years- Thank you for sharing!

Hate to add to the peanut gallery after the fact- but did you ever consider bending the copper to a similar radius for the corner and doing the drops before and after the attachment points?

 

[lilscorpion]

Absolutely LOVE-LOVE all your threads and the organization. Ive been admiring and stealing ideas from a distance for years- Thank you for sharing!

Hate to add to the peanut gallery after the fact- but did you ever consider bending the copper to a similar radius for the corner and doing the drops before and after the attachment points?

Thank you, thank you! Steal away and share back.

Bending copper…yes but I wasn’t confident bending wouldn’t impact its strength. I actually spent time searching the web looking for someone who’d done it. Found a few but none that used bending in plumbing and certainly not air holding systems. I thought about trying for fun but copper is expensive…in short, I chickened out I suppose.

 

[madison069]

I’ve been looking for U’s and can’t believe it’s not a fitting that exists. I suspect that’s because hydraulic pressure doesn’t require subtle transitions and two 90’s are cheaper to make and accomplish the same function. Just a guess tho.

The U fittings are called Copper return bend. Common among baseboard on boiler system. I don't know if they have them on compression fittings or not, but I do know they are available to solder.

 

[86turbodsl]

Not even that expensive.

 

[rattle_snake]

Bending copper…yes but I wasn’t confident bending wouldn’t impact its strength.

Perfectly radiused, polished, tig welded stainless steel piping would also look nice. Assuming time and money are not a concern.

Would match the flex pipe, just sayin'

 

[rattle_snake]

Hi Matt,
Did you consider putting sub panels in the shop and/or garage for future expansion? Or are all of the 220V equipment circuits home-runs back to the main panel in the utility room?

 

[lilscorpion]

Perfectly radiused, polished, tig welded stainless steel piping would also look nice. Assuming time and money are not a concern.

Would match the flex pipe, just sayin'

Dude, you are killing me! You know my brain can’t process not doing things the hard(est) way. Stop putting $hit in my head, I won’t be able to sleep.

Think at this point I need to wrap up the initial setup of the shop and move to getting all the machines running. I don’t even have a welder outlet at the moment.

Hi Matt,
Did you consider putting sub panels in the shop and/or garage for future expansion? Or are all of the 220V equipment circuits home-runs back to the main panel in the utility room?

The two panels I showed previously aren’t themselves the primary/main panel. The main is a 250amp unit on the outside (other side) of the house and feeds into this basement 150 amp panel I’ll call Sub 1.



Sub 1 then has a 100 amp breaker that feeds into the second 100 amp sub (sub of a sub) panel.



And Sub one also now has a 40 amp breaker that now feeds the 3 phase (generator and) panel I just installed.



I’d like to have one in the shop (would be damn easier than running stairs), but I think I’m close to sub paneled out. If I ever get an employee (meaning more than me working in the shop), I’d probably be overloading one or all of them.

 

[csp]

Wish I had seen this prior to you ordering a knockout set. I have a ton of them that I'd be happy to lend out.

I have a good tip for making soldered joints look pretty (get rid of the drips). Wipe them while hot with a cotton glove. One of my best friends is a pipefitter and HVAC contractor and does a lot of baseboard heat installs. He insists on wiping almost every joint when doing an install and his arrangement of pipe and fittings on these setups is a work of art.

 

[lilscorpion]

Wish I had seen this prior to you ordering a knockout set. I have a ton of them that I'd be happy to lend out.

I have a good tip for making soldered joints look pretty (get rid of the drips). Wipe them while hot with a cotton glove. One of my best friends is a pipefitter and HVAC contractor and does a lot of baseboard heat installs. He insists on wiping almost every joint when doing an install and his arrangement of pipe and fittings on these setups is a work of art.

That’s alright, probably not a bad idea for me to have one since I’ll never know when I’ll want to make a change in the future. Thanks for the offer tho.

Cotton gloves huh? Just any old kind? I see them on Amazon, says they’re commonly worn under BBQ gloves. Won’t burn the **** out of my hands? Liquid solder is like .5 million degrees when it’s liquid…

 

[Graham08]

I wipe solder joints with a wet towel while they're still hot. Gets the flux and excess solder off.

 

[zmotorsports]

Dude, you are killing me! You know my brain can’t process not doing things the hard(est) way. Stop putting $hit in my head, I won’t be able to sleep.

***** doesn't it Matt???? Just when you think you're doing an awesome job you post pictures only to learn you **** and are doing a terrible job at whatever it is you're doing.

 

[lilscorpion]

I wipe solder joints with a wet towel while they're still hot. Gets the flux and excess solder off.

I’ll try it when I get back in the shop. As an irrigation guy I was pleased if the joint didn’t leak and ran like hell to the next one if it in fact didn’t.

***** doesn't it Matt???? Just when you think you're doing an awesome job you post pictures only to learn you **** and are doing a terrible job at whatever it is you're doing.

Now I wouldn’t go that far Mike. **** is a strong word…but yeah. Apparently my art isn’t.

 

[lilscorpion]

Didn’t get a mess if time in the shop this weekend but did get some stuff done. We had our first real freeze/snow Saturday so I had to scramble to blow out the sprinkler system. Unfortunately that meant I needed to hustle and ghetto wire the compressor



And stub in the regulator. Ultimately it will run up into the cooler I’m running in the layer 2 infrastructure.



I didn’t get pics but I got done in time to blow out the system at 11pm in blizzard like conditions.

Also fabricated all of the conduit drops for the outlets…well half of them. Picked up this nifty tool for bending the offsets after learning how challenging it is to nail back to back subtle bends.



The tool uses two does that can do 3/4” one way, flip and 1” the other



First one is gravy, less than half a dozen pumps.



Flip it end for end and then use a level across the double bend to make sure the bends are co-planar to the machine



This little magnetic level has turned out to be quite awesome for conduit bending.



And then pump away. Finish is pristine and effortless. Pretty good for a $200 machine.



I recommend!

 

[rvieceli]

Here's a link for those folks that are going to ask

$180 from Temco with free shipping

TEMCo Industrial TH3031 1" & 3/4" Conduit Offset Bender

The TEMCo Industrial TH3031 is the world's only 1" EMT conduit offset bender! Also bends 3/4" EMT with our unique reversible bending die design!

temcoindustrial.com

$200 from Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSVR6PLK/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Ron

 

[slodat]

Box offset benders are definitely worth the expense. I picked up used Greenlee 1/2 and 3/4 benders on Craigslist years ago for $50 or so each. Next up you’ll have a wire cart. I bought one of these used (Greenlee) on Craigslist as well. That Temco looks slick.

Looking good!

 

[86turbodsl]

Man, that's nice bending for $200.

 

[rattle_snake]

Hmm that is a slick bender. You bought it at the right time.

Color coded 110v receptacles? are they on separate branches?

Thanks for explaining the sub-sub-sub panel situation. That said you can always turn any dedicated receptacle into a panel later if needed. I doubt you will trip any breakers even with multiple people working. My entire shop is on single 40A branch.

 

[lilscorpion]

Box offset benders are definitely worth the expense. I picked up used Greenlee 1/2 and 3/4 benders on Craigslist years ago for $50 or so each. Next up you’ll have a wire cart. I bought one of these used (Greenlee) on Craigslist as well. That Temco looks slick.

Looking good!

I want a wire cart and I really really don’t. Maybe if my shop was 5k square feet. Even then, maybe. Thinking about temporary solutions…

 

[SilverJimmy]

Stupid question…
Whats a “wire cart”?

 

[Grant Gunderson]

I want a wire cart and I really really don’t. Maybe if my shop was 5k square feet. Even then, maybe. Thinking about temporary solutions…

i made one out of a Systsiner. Need to make a few more for the rest of the wire stock, but it’s been super handy.

 

[lilscorpion]

Hmm that is a slick bender. You bought it at the right time.

Color coded 110v receptacles? are they on separate branches?

Yeah. The idea is that I’ll only use the red branch for power hog devices like a miter saw, belt sander, cold saw, etc. the other circuit I’ll run stuff that wouldn’t like losing power or things that don’t have large amp loads (CNC controls, etc). Will help my kids keep which to use for what straight too.

Red = power tools more or less.

Stupid question…
Whats a “wire cart”?

Makes it easier to get multiple spools in place for a single multi wire pull. Something like this.

i made one out of a Systsiner. Need to make a few more for the rest of the wire stock, but it’s been super handy.

That’s slick. I’m gonna save that one off and make one for my automotive electrical wire. That’s perfect. Won’t work for the spool if #3 THHN tho…

 

[Grant Gunderson]

Yeah. The idea is that I’ll only use the red branch for power hog devices like a miter saw, belt sander, cold saw, etc. the other circuit I’ll run stuff that wouldn’t like losing power or things that don’t have large amp loads (CNC controls, etc). Will help my kids keep which to use for what straight too.

Red = power tools more or less.

Makes it easier to get multiple spools in place for a single multi wire pull. Something like this.



That’s slick. I’m gonna save that one off and make one for my automotive electrical wire. That’s perfect. Won’t work for the spool if #3 THHN tho…

Yeah won’t work for #3. But will for 8 and smaller. For the amount of wire you need to pull I think some time spent assembling something temporary out of scrap wood and allthread for the spools would pay dividends when pulling all of those runs.

 

[rvieceli]

It's amazing how simple these wire carts are and how much money they want for them new.

I'd think a few casters or a hand truck and a few rods and fab time would be a good investment.

Ron

 

[SilverJimmy]

Oh, I have one of those! Mounted a wire rack on the back of an old Craftsman box I got out of my father’s stash. Still need to move the two top boxes and mount a wood top and then I’m going to mount a small vise on the top for soldering and other odd wiring jobs. The box has all my electrical supplies, wire connectors, heat shrink, wire strippers, crimpers, and soldering tools.

 

[86turbodsl]

i made one out of a Systsiner. Need to make a few more for the rest of the wire stock, but it’s been super handy.

Nice. I usually just use a hunk of conduit across a ladder, lol.

 

[slodat]

I bought one of these used on Craigslist for $100.



Really happy with it.

 

[rvieceli]

@slodat @lilscorpion That Greenlee cart lists for almost $900 and most supply houses want around $700

Seems to be a hand cart with a slotted flat bar tacked to the uprights and some rods. Oh well

Ron

 

[slodat]

Like I said this sort of stuff is where the used market is the way to go. I paid $100 for mine. It may look like a hand truck but it’s substantially different and purpose built. I’ve had multiple big rolls on it and it’s stable. 8awg, 6awg, several 10’s and 12’s. Remember you’re pulling the wire off this thing. I have a few well made hand trucks and I would want to make it work by modifying one.

 

[lilscorpion]

Slow on updates but not because I’m slow to make progress. This last weekend/week I’ve been working most nights trying to get phase 1 of the electrical done with hopes I can fire the CNC router for the first time this weekend (not sure it’s going to happen tho). Primarily my challenge has been having materials and parts on hand.

Most of the work now is thing in the junction boxes on the header conduit runs into the junction boxes where the outlets will be. here I’m using a laser to figure out where to cut the conduit to get the fittings to line up.



Then I’ll drop to the box with conduit and add in the run of outlets. Here I’ll start with 2 (for now so they’re usable) and figure out where the rest of them will need to be once the cabinets go in.



This section is a little more complicated in that the header junction box and the intermediate one above also go thru the wall into a closet and out into the other garage as well. The header goes into this larger box that goes down into the closet where the deionized water valves and tanks are for the pressure washer/cad wash setup.



From that box one of the conduits follows the enclosed I-beam between the garage doors first ducking under the other ibeam slightly…



And the connecting into the junction box that will hold the electronics for the pressure washer itself.



Within the closet you can see there’s a second 1” that carries the welder circuit between garage and shop so I can do so in either place. As luck would have it, the placement in both locations was exactly where I wanted them individually…which is crazy.



The choice to uninstall and reuse as much if the electrical parts from my old gag are turned out to be a really good choice. This has saved me a bunch and almost all of the old stuff has now been reused/incorporated in the new space.

Of course now that I’ve been reminded that there’s an easier and cleaner way to terminate the braided THHN ends and ensure that all braided are within the various lugs, I am using ferrules where it makes sense. My OCD isn’t living that I do t have the appropriate colors for each wire however I seem to be dealing with it well.

 

[Grant Gunderson]

My OCD isn’t living that I do t have the appropriate colors for each wire however I seem to be dealing with it well.

Well done! The ferrules are color code for size as I’m sure you have noticed. You could put the proper color heat shrink on them, or better yet and my preferred option is to cover the insulated end of the ferrules/ wire connection with heat shrink labels. Right now all of the circuits are fresh in your mind, but 20 years from now labels will make your life easier if you ever need to make some modifications. Especially on the outside of the boxes so you always know you are flipping the correct breaker. Or at least that’s a lesson I learned when I mostly rewired my current place as the guy who originally wired it had no clue how to use common sense in circuit layouts. Why the back half of my garage is in the same circuit as the living room wall on the complete opposite side of my house will never make sense to me.

 

[lilscorpion]

Not stiffin’ y’all, been busy trying to get everything in order to move in. Primarily, needed a way to contain the dogs (aka dog yard). We’ve been dancing around the weather. Got our first snow which creates some mud.



By the time it dried up we got the next one right as the landscape team was clearing the old rubbish.



And finally we got some sunny days. Felt, rock, and steel edging can’t make septic tank lids look better.



Running out to the new house every evening to progress. Fence is in.



A crushed granite bed is compacted for drainage and then a they install a the synthetic turf over it. Probably the easiest and most expensive way to get a lawn.



It makes a huge difference in the view from the great room window.



Probably about 1/6th of the volley ball court is removed (what’s inside the fence), fill dirt replaces the sand, and the crew compacts it.



Then felt is laid…



And now you’re caught up to tonight…I spent the evening finishing the fill dirt and moving cobble in.



Was getting kinda dark moving the last of the fill dirt. Picture is darker than the actual cab view but it was dark.

 

[lilscorpion]

The last 3 or 4 buckets I had to spread them out and hand pick out the cobble scraps.



Didn’t take long tho the pick makes it look like lots of work. I’ll get some better pics tomorrow but I got damn close…dogs will be playing inside tomorrow.

Here’s two different perspectives from either side of the yard. Since it was fairly cool/cold, there’s lots of creases still in the turf where it was both seamed and rolled. Those will be much less visible/obvious as heat gets into the turf and it’s fluffed up and not matted down from being rolled.

The dogs are going to have a ball. Lower area is ripe for a lacrosse goal for shooting practice or a game of catch.

 

[Swanny1953]

Lookin' good, and low maintenance to boot!!

 

[Boostingaz]

Don't let the dogs pee on it. Everytime it gets warm it will stink!

 

[lilscorpion]

Don't let the dogs pee on it. Everytime it gets warm it will stink!

Nah, it’s designed for dogs. You do have to maintain turf by rinsing it down every so often but I swear by it if you have dogs. It’s about as easy to manage as any yard I’ve ever had and the dogs love it!!

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

Wow, the backyard space came out looking fantastic.

I have always considered this for my backyard but always thought it would stink since the dogs wreaked havoc on the grass yard. So good to hear it really doesn't smell. I have irrigation and have heard from some people if you keep that that it can help keep down on the smell since you can wash it more frequently then.