Loan for garage

[NUTTSGT]

I think the OP got more than he wanted in this thread.

 

[Ray916MN]

Where did I say the loan officer protected me from making bad financial decisions?

Make sure you can make the payments? Isn't that what you're supposed to do when you borrow money? That's why there's loan officers. To protect non money management morons from getting in over their head.

I'm in that position because I'm personally responsible with money.

If your credit rating is better than 99% of the folks in the country it is because you managed your money properly, it is not because a loan officer protected you from making poor financial decisions.

You lost me here. The government let the lending industry, which Fannie and Freddie are part of, go wild. Ask any mortgage lending official how many different schemes and plans were available to get someone qualified for a mortgage. It will make your head hurt. Regardless of the plan, you're still supposed to repay the money. But if I'm underwater in a property because the real estate market went bust, I can walk away from it like a rental property because I have no skin in the game.

Remember all those mortgages without 20% or greater down or equity are required to carry PMI which guarantees the loan. Credit Default Swaps (CDS) are effectively packaged PMI obligations which were traded by lending institutions. The failure of the CDS market, meant the institutions holding CDS could not meet their financial obligations to pay mortgages off for defaulting borrowers.

I told you that. Most folks are pretty STOOBID when it comes to money management. Why do you think the government wants to control every facet of your life?

I don't think the government wants to control every facet of my life. I think stupid people believe things like.

Make sure you can make the payments? Isn't that what you're supposed to do when you borrow money? That's why there's loan officers. To protect non money management morons from getting in over their head.

They believe someone else is responsible or should be responsible. In dealing with stupid people I think it makes sense to be short and direct so rather than put forth stuff like you I have, I believe it makes more sense to simply state, if you borrow money make damn sure you can make the payments.

The problem with stupid is the obvious tends to escape them, so when you deal with the stupid it pays to state and restate the obvious.

What the hell do ya' think I've been telling you for a half dozen posts????

WTF . Remind me not to use you as my financial planner.

With your logic I'm aimed at a disaster before it evens happens. Or in other words you're looking at running the financial ship so tight that you can't really afford to make the payments you agreed to.

This is piss poor financial planning. You're setting yourself up for financial failure.

Do you hold a key government financial planning job? That's the logic the folks in DC are using.

Financing hasn't been too easy?????????? Hello, McFly, is there anyone home up there? What the hell do you think caused the economy to implode? Are you in an economic information vacuum chamber? Take that as an insult if you want, because it's intended to be one.

That somehow you disagree with the following

Whats the difference between saving 60 months to buy a car or financing 0% for 60 months...?

There is no logic being applied. These are facts. If you save the money, you will have it and if you don't make the payments on a car loan you will lose the car and have nothing for all the payments you made.

The personal attack in the face of facts surprises me.

and think I'm an idiot.​

So what about that car ya' paid cash for that ya' have to sell to cover an emergency? Ya' want to talk about that?

Nope, I'm done. You seem to be bent on proving you are somehow superior and further response is not worth my time.

 

[KPSquared]

So, OP. . .made your mind up yet?

 

[rumpity_z28]

Haha what a great post!

 

[woodersen]

getting hot in here. they start dirt work on my shop tomorrow. im 32, enjoying every day this precious life gives me. my dad is 75 yrs old. has been retired about 10yrs. recently lost his dad, my brother in law's dad, and my dad lost his neighbor of over 35yrs. we had a sit down recently. he told me he isnt waiting anymore is going to spend everything he has saved up and not think twice about it. i said go head, and then we drank some beer.

 

[woodersen]

The point is one only borrows money that allows you to make more money.

All other expenditures are money sinks...the money is borrowed and spent with no economic return. Borrowing money to add a garage results in a more expensive house which is less likely to resell and one will not recover the initial investment in the foreseeable future in this housing market..if ever.

The OP has not said that he is planning on any income producing venture that will result because of the garage additiion. In my past before getting garage space, I spent many years working on my vehicles in the driveway...with no cost of a garage.

As I said earlier...knowing that a new baby is on the way is cause for being very conservative with money..ask anyone where a birth did not go as planned. In addition, any baby represents additional cost to the family...and there are always expenses one never thinks of that arise.

A story..a true story...

Years ago on a small acreage that I drove by daily I watched a sad story of a family play out.

First a prefab house went up...cheap, fast and one that a newly married couple could get a loan for...with no garage.

Next I see a prefab shop go up..again, cheap, fast and againg one that a newly wedded couple could get a loan for...the husband got his garage.

About a year later I see vehicles change...from the hot cars that kids drive to a pickup and minivan...usually means a baby arrived.

About year later, the toys of a small child show up on the lawn...yeah..they have a kid.

About a year later....the minivan is gone..the pickup remains...fewer toys on the lawn...damn..I bet a divorce happened..and the father gets the kid on every other weekend.

About a year later...the toys are gone...the pickup disappears...someone just lost the house.

About six months later...the prefab shop is taken down and removed...leaving the concrete slab...someone just lost his garage.

Over the next two years...the yard becomes overgrown, no one is living there...the bank is holding a house they can't sell.

Last winter....someone's meth lab burns the house down...happens a lot in vacant houses.

This last summer...a bulldozer finally removed the remains of the house...but the slab of the garage remains as silent testament as to what past dreams had been there.

I still drive by that small empty acreage....and pass dreams that have died of a family that I never knew.

A very sad lesson of life if one wants learn what bad things can happen to a family living on the edge....

that is a sad story, but let me tell you my story about how people who over borrow and cant pay, affect people who borrow with every intention to repay it.

in 2006 i bought my first house. i was a single guy. i bought a small 1200sqft house. i put my 20% down. it was a 69k house. i paid on time for 5 yrs on it. i paid my HOA dues, i paid my insurance i paid my taxes. i held my middle classes 50k a year job down the whole time. fast fwd 5yrs.....

i owed 48k on the house. me and the mrs decided to move to somewhere with no HOA, bigger, better, cheaper. (interest rates dropped). but guess what.......i cant sell my 1st house, because the housing market is upside down.i listed the house for 65k. i waited 3 months, i didnt get a single offer,....dropped it to 55k........a perfectly fine, new roof new tile floor house, new ac for 55k........surely someone would buy it..........NOPE. i finally had to call a friend whos dad has rent houses and asked him to come cash me out. i sold the house for what i owed on it. 48k. i lost 5 yrs worth of payments, my intial 20% down payment..........but how can this be? i made every single payment on time. ahhh.....because everyone else around me bought **** they cant afford. and lost it , causing the market to crumbled.

i moved on, this current house was priced 30k under market so the way i put myself to sleep at night is i said, i lost it in the old house, but i made it up on the new house.

moral of the story is - it doesnt matter how great of credit you have or your intentions on repaying. banks are driven by greed....this is also why i closed my wells fargo account after 16yrs. and went with the local credit union.

in hind sight..........i should have kept that first house and rented it out. but at the time i was working and traveling and wasnt going to be home but 2-3 days a week and didnt want to deal with renters remotely so i chose to sell it and get out from under to avoid double mortgage until it sells. now i have a different job, with lots of time off, so i really should have kept the 1st house as a rent property..........another moral of the story - u never know what life is going to hand you, so enjoy it while you can.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

I have seen a number of housing downturns.

With each one, owners were upside down for the better part of ten years..some held on, some sold, some lost the house.

They say one in seven people move every year...because of the job.

Houses are not build on wheels...if you have to move, you have some tough choices to make...or they will be made for you.

I know of people who dropped the keys to their house off at the bank as they left town, I know people who have rented their homes for 16 years because of the upside down nature of the loan while living half way cross the country...and I know more than a few who have lost homes while carrying the debt for years.

I guess the bottom line is realize that a house is just shelter...it doesn't make you money...and budget accordingly.

 

[woodersen]

I have seen a number of housing downturns.

With each one, owners were upside down for the better part of ten years..some held on, some sold, some lost the house.

They say one in seven people move every year...because of the job.

Houses are not build on wheels...if you have to move, you have some tough choices to make...or they will be made for you.

I know of people who dropped the keys to their house off at the bank as they left town, I know people who have rented their homes for 16 years because of the upside down nature of the loan while living half way cross the country...and I know more than a few who have lost homes while carrying the debt for years.

I guess the bottom line is realize that a house is just shelter...it doesn't make you money...and budget accordingly.

I agree with you. This type of topic and subject has very deep roots, planted at an early age, think about it...in school (public school up to grade 12) did anyone ever teach this stuff? Nope. Buying a home is supposed to be the american dream....who came up with that phrase? Probably mr j p morgan himself. But they get bail outs. I didnt get no bailout.

Annual tire change and brake check on my HHR. I love this lift and it's so much easier on my back.

 

[Modifieddriver]

If you save for 60 months, no matter what happens you'll have your savings. If you finance, if you don't make the payments you'll end up with nothing.

​

​

Nope, I'm done. You seem to be bent on proving you are somehow superior and further response is not worth my time.

I'm not superior, I'm just a regular guy, probably just like you. But you can not imagine how I feel wasting my time playing dueling posts when we really agree on the same thing. If ya' can't afford it, don't buy it. It's as simple as that.

Above is your initial post I responded to. We only differ in the opinion of financing. You prefer save and buy. I prefer to buy what one can afford.

I still can't understand how one can save for years, pay cash for a vehicle and still not lose your savings at the time of purchase? That's the way I interpret your post.

One way ya' can afford to stash $dough$ in the bank. The other way ya' can afford to do the same thing, but pay the bank for the use of their money and enjoy the fruits of your labor immediately with an end goal of complete ownership.

The end result is the same. How we get there is different.

 

[ffjosh]

Thanks for all the help!

I just sold about $3k worth of stuff this weekend so im getting close.

I am about $4k away from having my shop, with that said I am taking out a small personal loan. I can take up to $5k but probably wont have to take it all.

I am having another quote done by a guy. This next guy was referred by a good friend of mine and said this guy does pole buildings on the side for extra cash. He owns his own construction business that does bigger buildings like restaurants and other smaller business's. He does these pole buildings on the side just for extra cash for his business during the winter months.

I hope he is even cheaper and I guess he is really really fast. Guess you can do that when you have 20 workers vs 5 amish guys

So maybe I still wont need a loan

 

[JakeKohl]

I hope that works for you! Really. I do. I hate to be negative, but this is how most horror stories begin.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

Thanks for all the help!

I just sold about $3k worth of stuff this weekend so im getting close.

I am about $4k away from having my shop, with that said I am taking out a small personal loan. I can take up to $5k but probably wont have to take it all.

I am having another quote done by a guy. This next guy was referred by a good friend of mine and said this guy does pole buildings on the side for extra cash. He owns his own construction business that does bigger buildings like restaurants and other smaller business's. He does these pole buildings on the side just for extra cash for his business during the winter months.

I hope he is even cheaper and I guess he is really really fast. Guess you can do that when you have 20 workers vs 5 amish guys

So maybe I still wont need a loan

Not trying to be a stinker here but does your zoning regs allow pole type buildings?

 

[Kevin54]

Thanks for all the help!

I just sold about $3k worth of stuff this weekend so im getting close.

I am about $4k away from having my shop, with that said I am taking out a small personal loan. I can take up to $5k but probably wont have to take it all.

I am having another quote done by a guy. This next guy was referred by a good friend of mine and said this guy does pole buildings on the side for extra cash. He owns his own construction business that does bigger buildings like restaurants and other smaller business's. He does these pole buildings on the side just for extra cash for his business during the winter months.

I hope he is even cheaper and I guess he is really really fast. Guess you can do that when you have 20 workers vs 5 amish guys

So maybe I still wont need a loan

I'd put money on the five Amish guys being quicker than a contractor that has twenty. When the neighbor woman had her barn built which I am guessing to be 80' x 100', it was up in 5 days complete. It was basically all framed the first day.

 

[ffjosh]

Not trying to be a stinker here but does your zoning regs allow pole type buildings?

YEs I live in the middle of no where..its what we build

 

[ffjosh]

I hope that works for you! Really. I do. I hate to be negative, but this is how most horror stories begin.

why you say that?

 

[ffjosh]

I'd put money on the five Amish guys being quicker than a contractor that has twenty. When the neighbor woman had her barn built which I am guessing to be 80' x 100', it was up in 5 days complete. It was basically all framed the first day.

The only thing slowing down the amish crew at my place is the excavating work. I need about 4 foot of dirt moved and 8-10 trees and stumps removed. The amish crew only has a small excavator some rope and a chain saw, where the bigger company will be briing in a big *** excavator and a bull dozer to have it done in hours not a couple days

 

[JakeKohl]

I agree with you. This type of topic and subject has very deep roots, planted at an early age, think about it...in school (public school up to grade 12) did anyone ever teach this stuff? Nope. Buying a home is supposed to be the american dream....who came up with that phrase? Probably mr j p morgan himself. But they get bail outs. I didnt get no bailout.

Exactly. It's not taught anymore. Balancing a checkbook isn't taught anymore. Parents should also be as responsible as the school systems - I don't get it. I realize this makes me sound like an old curmudgeon but I couldn't find a neighborhood kid willing to use my mower and cut my grass for a healthy sum ($30/week for a 1/2 acre lot). Apparently kids don't do that anymore. .. Bahhh.

 

[JakeKohl]

why you say that?

That was a little too harsh on my part - sorry...it's just that I've seen a few projects here start on a tight budget with a contractor willing to do cut-rate work on the side go bad...there are a lot of things that can go wrong even with a high dollar build.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

YEs I live in the middle of no where..its what we build

Good to hear...important to verify.

I have friends in a number of states that live "in the middle of nowhere" and pole buildings would not be permitted by the zoning laws/covenants they are subject to.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

Exactly. It's not taught anymore. Balancing a checkbook isn't taught anymore. Parents should also be as responsible as the school systems - I don't get it. I realize this makes me sound like an old curmudgeon but I couldn't find a neighborhood kid willing to use my mower and cut my grass for a healthy sum ($30/week for a 1/2 acre lot). Apparently kids don't do that anymore. .. Bahhh.

LOl...likely because they have done the math and can make more at other higher paying jobs with less effort.

What's the going rate at your location for a lawn care company to mow a lawn like that once a week?


Here it would be over $100/week cash up front using your riding equipment...trimming extra.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

why you say that?

Reread the discussion thread.

If any problems arise..and they ALWAYS do....and you will be cash short.

It's like when someone buys a house say for $100k..and they have $100K cash/credit available...and then the next 10-25% expenses come along that they did not plan for....big problems happen quickly.

 

[JakeKohl]

LOl...likely because they have done the math and can make more at other higher paying jobs with less effort.

What's the going rate at your location for a lawn care company to mow a lawn like that once a week?


Here it would be over $100/week cash up front using your riding equipment...trimming extra.

Awww, c'mon...it takes like 45 minutes. $30 an hour is a pretty good wage if you don't have to bring anything but yourself, I don't care who you are. I made good spending money through high school cutting yards larger than mine for $20 each. The pro guy charges me $45-$60 depending on the amount of trim work needed.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Awww, c'mon...it takes like 45 minutes. $30 an hour is a pretty good wage if you don't have to bring anything but yourself, I don't care who you are. I made good spending money through high school cutting yards larger than mine for $20 each. The pro guy charges me $45-$60 depending on the amount of trim work needed.

Hell, if you were closer I'd mow that yard for $30 every week. Half of summer before last I mowed the neighbors yard if she would show me her *****.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

Awww, c'mon...it takes like 45 minutes. $30 an hour is a pretty good wage if you don't have to bring anything but yourself, I don't care who you are. I made good spending money through high school cutting yards larger than mine for $20 each. The pro guy charges me $45-$60 depending on the amount of trim work needed.

Times change...costs and wages are not what they were when we were kids.

Here in CA $100 wouldn't cover it...and that would be a cash transaction..it is a price of living where costs are higher.

As for time spent, it depends on the ground cover, terrain, machine used, trees, all the darn trimming, etc....and I for one would not want a hack job from somone mowing like a bat out of hell.

A real clue is what the pro guy is charging...lawn care guys do lots of mowing...and since the business is a cut throat one their charges are close to what it does cost to mow a lawn...because they make their real money in the extras like landscaping.

Actually this cost of lot maintainance is part of owning a garage and should be factored into any long term fiscal planning.

Cutting lot maintainance is a great way to meet the local zoning folks when the neighbors rat you out.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

Hell, if you were closer I'd mow that yard for $30 every week. Half of summer before last I mowed the neighbors yard if she would show me her *****.

LOL..would he have to flash his chest to you?

 

[Carny]

When you say "starting a family" does that mean a kid on the way? If your wife is already pregnant then I would wait and save some more. At least give it until the kid is six months old.

Very few people save that much money, so you are doing well. Don't get garage fever and blow it right at the end.

My son will be one year next week. My wife quit her job to stay home with him. Then I had the slowest year ever. Luckily we had money in savings and very little debt other than the house.

I'm not one to go around preaching doom and gloom, but life happens. Once you put the money in the garage there is no getting it back. You've made it this long without one. Save up a while longer and pay cash and still have an emergency fund.

 

[JakeKohl]

Times change...costs and wages are not what they were when we were kids.

Here in CA $100 wouldn't cover it...and that would be a cash transaction..it is a price of living where costs are higher.

As for time spent, it depends on the ground cover, terrain, machine used, trees, all the darn trimming, etc....and I for one would not want a hack job from somone mowing like a bat out of hell.

A real clue is what the pro guy is charging...lawn care guys do lots of mowing...and since the business is a cut throat one their charges are close to what it does cost to mow a lawn...because they make their real money in the extras like landscaping.

Actually this cost of lot maintainance is part of owning a garage and should be factored into any long term fiscal planning.

Cutting lot maintainance is a great way to meet the local zoning folks when the neighbors rat you out.

This is kinda getting away from my point - my point is that kids aren't doing these kinds of jobs today. Hell, it was competitive when I was a kid trying to get yards to mow. There was nowhere near the number of pros doing the residential work because the kids were all fighting for it. Things have changed beyond the cost of cutting grass.

 

[NUTTSGT]

LOL..would he have to flash his chest to you?

NO ! I'll take the cash.

 

[Ray916MN]

...

Very few people save that much money, so you are doing well. Don't get garage fever and blow it right at the end.

.....

^^^^^Exactly.

The amount of savings for a rainy day someone should have is generally expressed as the number of months of earnings a person should have saved. This is not a great way to look at setting this number in my opinion.

If you look at the data from people who declare bankruptcy and use this as an indicator of how people fail to plan for a rainy day you see this:

Medical Expenses (42%)
Recent studies have shown that 42% of all personal bankruptcies are a result of medical expenses. The study also reveals that 78% of those who filed had insurance.

Job Loss (22%)
Millions of Americans are unemployed, which makes them much more likely to file for bankruptcy. Unemployed individuals often pay for insurance out-of-pocket.

The cost of healthcare insurance is income independent. For a family of four a $5K/yr. deductible insurance policy will cost more than $12K per year. A visit to a hospital can chew through $12K in a blink of an eye, but maintaining healthcare insurance costs more than many people's mortgages.

No one plans on losing a job; no one plans on having a medical emergency, but your rainy day savings needs to be adequate to cover these possibilities. I'd plan on having $20K saved just to cover health care insurance and possible out of pocket costs in an emergency fund, plus whatever you need to cover your mortgage, utilities and living expenses for however long you feel comfortable with.

If/when you have kids you need to have even more rainy day savings. Notice, none of this has anything to do with how much you earn. It is primarily about how much you have to spend to feed yours family, maintain a roof over your head, and to be employable or might have to spend in the event you have a healthcare problem or some other misfortune.

Everyone should save and spend as they see fit, and some people take allot more risk in spending than others. That's all fine, but make sure you understand and appreciate the risk, so you know whether the return you get for spending is worth the risk.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

This is kinda getting away from my point - my point is that kids aren't doing these kinds of jobs today. Hell, it was competitive when I was a kid trying to get yards to mow. There was nowhere near the number of pros doing the residential work because the kids were all fighting for it. Things have changed beyond the cost of cutting grass.

I understand the point you were making.

And I pointed out that times have changed...kids can make more money elsewhere doing other work.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

^^^^^Exactly.

The amount of savings for a rainy day someone should have is generally expressed as the number of months of earnings a person should have saved. This is not a great way to look at setting this number in my opinion.

If you look at the data from people who declare bankruptcy and use this as an indicator of how people fail to plan for a rainy day you see this:

Medical Expenses (42%)
Recent studies have shown that 42% of all personal bankruptcies are a result of medical expenses. The study also reveals that 78% of those who filed had insurance.

Job Loss (22%)
Millions of Americans are unemployed, which makes them much more likely to file for bankruptcy. Unemployed individuals often pay for insurance out-of-pocket.

The cost of healthcare insurance is income independent. For a family of four a $5K/yr. deductible insurance policy will cost more than $12K per year. A visit to a hospital can chew through $12K in a blink of an eye, but maintaining healthcare insurance costs more than many people's mortgages.

No one plans on losing a job; no one plans on having a medical emergency, but your rainy day savings needs to be adequate to cover these possibilities. I'd plan on having $20K saved just to cover health care insurance and possible out of pocket costs in an emergency fund, plus whatever you need to cover your mortgage, utilities and living expenses for however long you feel comfortable with.

If/when you have kids you need to have even more rainy day savings. Notice, none of this has anything to do with how much you earn. It is primarily about how much you have to spend to feed yours family, maintain a roof over your head, and to be employable or might have to spend in the event you have a healthcare problem or some other misfortune.

Everyone should save and spend as they see fit, and some people take allot more risk in spending than others. That's all fine, but make sure you understand and appreciate the risk, so you know whether the return you get for spending is worth the risk.

A very good post.

Rule of thumb had been 6 months income saved in a CASH account in good times.

The uncertain times we live in now...9-12 months of income MINIMUM.

Now this rainy day fund needs to be created and saved before anything else.

After this is in place, then you start thinking about discretionary spending...like babies and garages.

Time to find another job used to be 1 month for every $10,000 of income with no relocation...now it is longer and one needs to relocate.

Also as you point out...health insurance is not optional...without it you are walking around with a target on your back.

A thought for the guy planning on building the garage...any reloaction in your future...if you have to relocate the garage is not on wheels...you leave it behind and will get a fraction of what it is worth when selling.

 

[ChargedUp!]

I understand the point you were making.

And I pointed out that times have changed...kids can make more money elsewhere doing other work.

Where and how? How old are these kids? $30 to mow a lawn for a teenager would be good money! I made a whopping $5-$10 a lawn back in high school and I thought I was a high roller back then! $30 for 1 hours worth of work isn't that common around here so I don't know where they could make more.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

Where and how? How old are these kids? $30 to mow a lawn for a teenager would be good money! I made a whopping $5-$10 a lawn back in high school and I thought I was a high roller back then! $30 for 1 hours worth of work isn't that common around here so I don't know where they could make more.

Why don't you ask the kids?

I assume that some are likely working for the lawn care guy...who charges $60..

Or you can ask McDonalds what a McJob is paying.

My point is if you have no takers at $30, you are offering too little...that is free market in action. Raise the rates until you find a kid who will do it...as you said the lawn care guy will do it for $60...so the magic number is somewhere in between..but it is NOT $30 as your experience is showing.

I keep hearing over and over employers whine about how they cannot find qualified employees...and when you find out what they are offering for compensation...well what they are really saying is that they cannot find qualified employees that will work cheap.

The free market in action.....

 

[ChargedUp!]

Why don't you ask the kids?

I assume that some are likely working for the lawn care guy...who charges $60..

Or you can ask McDonalds what a McJob is paying.

My point is if you have no takers at $30, you are offering too little...that is free market in action. Raise the rates until you find a kid who will do it...as you said the lawn care guy will do it for $60...so the magic number is somewhere in between..but it is NOT $30 as your experience is showing.

I keep hearing over and over employers whine about how they cannot find qualified employees...and when you find out what they are offering for compensation...well what they are really saying is that they cannot find qualified employees that will work cheap.

The free market in action.....

Wrong guy.
Anyway, McDonald's sure doesn't pay $30/hr. I don't know many people who would scoff at that kind of $$$. That's over $60k a year at full time rates.
I used to put out fliers in the neighborhood mailboxes to get yards to mow. I don't see the ambition today by many kids. They seem to "expect" their allowance without doing anything for it. It's a shame really.

Of course, this is all off topic. If I get back on topic a bit, it seems to come down to envy and instant gratification for some. It's hard to come on a board like this and see all the amazing shops of all sizes and want a similar slice for themselves. Everyone needs to realize folks are all in different positions in life which has allowed them to get to where they are with what they have/ show.
Some take more risk, some are more conservative. Some don't have a problem with taking out a loan while others belong to the cash crowd. Neither is necessarily the right answer for every single person.
But here are my thoughts. If you are just starting a family/ freshly married/ kid on the way, I would not spend my entire savings on a luxury purchase. Family always needs to come first all the time, every time.
Maybe that means the garage waits another year. Maybe it means using 1/2 savings and a small loan. All I say is good luck!

 

[ChargedUp!]

I keep hearing over and over employers whine about how they cannot find qualified employees...and when you find out what they are offering for compensation...well what they are really saying is that they cannot find qualified employees that will work cheap.

The free market in action.....

I have to rant about this though...
Define cheap? I can have an opening in my area pay anywhere from $60-$100k per year not counting perks and I get next to no applicants. I even stretch to find "green" folks if they can show "potential" and still have difficulties filling a position. I can't even find non qualified people sometimes.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

I have to rant about this though...
Define cheap? I can have an opening in my area pay anywhere from $60-$100k per year not counting perks and I get next to no applicants. I even stretch to find "green" folks if they can show "potential" and still have difficulties filling a position. I can't even find non qualified people sometimes.

No problem...happy to hear other opinions.

Mind telling what occupation/position you are trying to filll?

Part of the Country?

Normal hours/traveling/special licensing?

When an employer cannot consistently find suitable employees for the compensation, it is the free market telling us that you are offering too little...otherwise a suitable employee would change companies for more pay or better conditions...simple as that.

It cuts both ways...when an employee cannot consistently find a job for their asking price of compensation...it is the free market telling them they are asking too much.

If you are finding no applicants and you are advertising where they look for jobs, then your compensation is inadequate for what you expect the employee to do.

Many employers think it is an employer's market..it is not for quality employees...limited supply...greater demand.

FWIW...a recent survey showed that over 70% of employees are planning to change employers as the economy improves...many, many people unhappy at their present employer/compensation.

Also with the prolonged slow economy from Bush/Obama years many highly skilled people have retired /died/changed occupations...so the supply has declined.

Employee turnover is a great measure of the actual quality of a company...how's yours?

Try plugging in your reqs here and see what they say...and tell us the results.

http://www.salary.com/

 

[JakeKohl]

Why don't you ask the kids?

I assume that some are likely working for the lawn care guy...who charges $60..

Or you can ask McDonalds what a McJob is paying.

My point is if you have no takers at $30, you are offering too little...that is free market in action. Raise the rates until you find a kid who will do it...as you said the lawn care guy will do it for $60...so the magic number is somewhere in between..but it is NOT $30 as your experience is showing.

I keep hearing over and over employers whine about how they cannot find qualified employees...and when you find out what they are offering for compensation...well what they are really saying is that they cannot find qualified employees that will work cheap.

The free market in action.....

Or kids would rather live off their allowance and stay at home. I'm just saying the days of the neighborhood kids cutting lawns is gone. I don't live in a fancy schmancy neighborhood but the kids aren't even asked to cut their own yards. The work isn't worth it for them or someone's afraid of the liability or.... And, no, the pro does all the work for himself. Baaahh..

How did I get on this topic?

BTW, I run my own business and I understand the value of good labor. I pay my employees well above average for this kind of work to retain them and their gained skill. In return, I get dependable efficiency and care. In my yard, I'm just looking for someone to run a mower back and forth for 45 minutes. It's not a golf course, and you probably can't count the different types of grass with all the fingers on both hands.

 

[ChargedUp!]

Too_Many_Tools, I'm in the banking industry in the IT Security side of our house. We're in the upper Midwest. Pay is actually competitive though. It's always our #1 gripe by employees and hiring managers but multiple reviews have been done for our area and we has been found to be right in the mix. For a given position on my team, I can have a $40k range if needed to get the right person but they've got to be the right person. Realistically, we don't post salary in our job ads like most companies (annoys me) but we just don't get applicants.
On the subject of kids and mowing, I think it's sad too where they aren't working for themselves and only want to rely on allowances. Parents should pull the kid from the tv/ whatever and have them do chores and or other jobs.

 

[Ray916MN]

.....In my yard, I'm just looking for someone to run a mower back and forth for 45 minutes. ...

Your response may hold the answer to your own question.

The more people in your neighborhood who buy the same service you are looking for, the fewer people in your neighborhood who will likely own a mower and trimmer and the fewer kids who will see cutting lawns as something they can easily do or want to do for some extra bucks. The example parents set influence the behavior of their kids. If a parent uses a service to do a job, it is also natural for kids to think that the job isn't worth their time.

Another example of this is many people use to change their own oil and filter. Now many kids would never think to do this, because the societal norm is to get the job done by a garage and their parents don't have the tools at home to do the job.

Computers are clearly on a similar path.

Our movement towards a service economy continues.....

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

Or kids would rather live off their allowance and stay at home. I'm just saying the days of the neighborhood kids cutting lawns is gone. I don't live in a fancy schmancy neighborhood but the kids aren't even asked to cut their own yards. The work isn't worth it for them or someone's afraid of the liability or.... And, no, the pro does all the work for himself. Baaahh..

How did I get on this topic?

BTW, I run my own business and I understand the value of good labor. I pay my employees well above average for this kind of work to retain them and their gained skill. In return, I get dependable efficiency and care. In my yard, I'm just looking for someone to run a mower back and forth for 45 minutes. It's not a golf course, and you probably can't count the different types of grass with all the fingers on both hands.

Like I said before...ask the kids why they are not falling over each other to mow your yard for $30.