Locking sockets (rounded bolt removal and retention)

[noid]

I had the idea of taking a set of sockets and drilling/tapping holes into the flats as a way of achieving three things:

1. A Nut and Bolt retention system where a dropped nut or bolt is a major problem
2. Being able to lock down a socket onto a bolt or nut during removal where the socket will not fall off the nut or bolt when the ratchet is at an angle (think wobble extensions/u-joints/extreme angles/etc).
3. Being able to remove stripped or damaged nuts and bolts

Well, I think I've figured it out. I have the provisional patent and functionally have had a set created.

Drilling something as hard as a socket without it cracking and then being able to tap it without the tap breaking has been quite a challenge without it becoming prohibitively expensive; but we've done it!

Full 3/8 set:

4mm set screw, a 3mm set screw would be nearly flush.

Completely rounded nut as a test subject for removing stripped nuts and bolts:

Post removal:

I'll be aiming towards pricing these at ~$150-190 USD for a full 3/8 shallow set. Chipped chrome and no warranty should be expected.

Feedback is welcome.

 

[sberry]

Sears had something similar to drive Hex, held the bit in.

 

[The Cobbler]

I like the idea
how difficult was it to drill & tap, how many taps/drills did you go through?

 

[matt_i]

Devil's advocate questions

- at what torque do they explode from the hoop stress being too high and a hole(s) in the wall
- wouldn't an impact socket be easier to tap? They machine & weld beautifully, something like 4340
- what happens to the setscrew or socket head screw when the little end is all grenaded from carving a divot in the side of a spinning hex and now its time to back it out thru the threaded wall, does it chew up the internal threads

In any case, good job, hope you sell several sets!

 

[noid]

Devil's advocate questions

- at what torque do they explode from the hoop stress being too high and a hole(s) in the wall
- wouldn't an impact socket be easier to tap? They machine & weld beautifully, something like 4340
- what happens to the setscrew or socket head screw when the little end is all grenaded from carving a divot in the side of a spinning hex and now its time to back it out thru the threaded wall, does it chew up the internal threads

In any case, good job, hope you sell several sets!

Great questions.

- at what torque do they explode from the hoop stress being too high and a hole(s) in the wall

The hardness delta of the bolt/nut and the socket is high enough where there isn't any meaningful difference because of the small holes. From my testing thus far, the bolt/nut fails first, then the 12.9 screw.

- wouldn't an impact socket be easier to tap? They machine & weld beautifully, something like 4340
It would be easier to tap, however they would also mush their threads at first use. There are only 3-4 threads to work with because of the thickness of the sidewall; you really want as strong of a material as possible.


- what happens to the setscrew or socket head screw when the little end is all grenaded from carving a divot in the side of a spinning hex and now its time to back it out thru the threaded wall, does it chew up the internal threads

It doesn't; the threads on the 12.9 set screw fail well before being able to deform the internal socket threads. Picture below showing two cap screws that were taken to failure.

I like the idea
how difficult was it to drill & tap, how many taps/drills did you go through?

I wen't though a few before involving some professional help

Nothing quite like ruining a Cleveland cobalt bit without even getting one hole.

 

[Black300zx]

Neat idea. For use case #2, usually a wobble/u-joint is used when you have poor access to the fastener. How the heck would you access the set screw to tighten it (for fastener removal) or remove it (after fastener installation)??

 

[rlitman]

- wouldn't an impact socket be easier to tap? They machine & weld beautifully, something like 4340
It would be easier to tap, however they would also mush their threads at first use. There are only 3-4 threads to work with because of the thickness of the sidewall; you really want as strong of a material as possible..

However impact sockets have significantly thicker walls.

 

[kctyphoon]

Aside from the removal of rounded nuts, what’s the benefit of these over a magnetic socket?

 

[danielbuck]

Aside from the removal of rounded nuts, what’s the benefit of these over a magnetic socket?

more and more I'm finding that I dislike magnets on tools or holders. They always seem to pick up shavings. Not really sure that applies to sockets too much, but just in general. I also don't keep a squeaky clean workspace, so maybe that's part of the problem.

 

[rlitman]

more and more I'm finding that I dislike magnets on tools or holders. They always seem to pick up shavings. Not really sure that applies to sockets too much, but just in general. I also don't keep a squeaky clean workspace, so maybe that's part of the problem.

I put magnets on many of my tablesaw attachments for easy storage. They never seem to collect shavings. The sawdust just doesn't seem to be attracted to them.

But I agree that magnets anywhere near steel grinding gets messy fast.

 

[kctyphoon]

Ball detent on the socket wall... patent pending

 

[malibu101]

Neat idea. For use case #2, usually a wobble/u-joint is used when you have poor access to the fastener. How the heck would you access the set screw to tighten it (for fastener removal) or remove it (after fastener installation)??

My thought too.

But it IS a cool idea. I guess I can see some very specialized uses.

Best of luck!!!

 

[Farmall450]

My thought too.

But it IS a cool idea. I guess I can see some very specialized uses.

Best of luck!!!

Agreed that clearance is a major issue. Much harder to get an allen key in there than just hammer on an extractor.

 

[Farmall450]

Devil's advocate questions

- at what torque do they explode from the hoop stress being too high and a hole(s) in the wall
- wouldn't an impact socket be easier to tap? They machine & weld beautifully, something like 4340
- what happens to the setscrew or socket head screw when the little end is all grenaded from carving a divot in the side of a spinning hex and now its time to back it out thru the threaded wall, does it chew up the internal threads

In any case, good job, hope you sell several sets!

When it fails it will certainly split from the top up, even without the set screw. Not sure how much loading the set screw affects things further.

 

[Swervyjoe]

Ball detent on the socket wall... patent pending

Pretty sure Koken beat you to it.

 

[DGersic]

Devil's advocate questions

- at what torque do they explode from the hoop stress being too high and a hole(s) in the wall
- wouldn't an impact socket be easier to tap? They machine & weld beautifully, something like 4340
- what happens to the setscrew or socket head screw when the little end is all grenaded from carving a divot in the side of a spinning hex and now its time to back it out thru the threaded wall, does it chew up the internal threads

In any case, good job, hope you sell several sets!

Run the set screw forward in to the socket until it falls out on the inside, so you’re using only good threads.



Sent from my iPad using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Fedwrench]

Ball detent on the socket wall... patent pending

Wera & Koken already sell those

 

[noid]

Neat idea. For use case #2, usually a wobble/u-joint is used when you have poor access to the fastener. How the heck would you access the set screw to tighten it (for fastener removal) or remove it (after fastener installation)??

Stubby allen keys; its not a solve-all, but I would venture to say in the majority of situations you are able to get your hand to where the bolt is. If your hand can touch it, then a stubby can tighten it.

Aside from the removal of rounded nuts, what’s the benefit of these over a magnetic socket?

A set screw can hold a nut or bolt much tighter than a magnet can; additionally can also hold plastic, brass, stainless steel or other non-ferrous metal materials.

For use case #2, a magnet isn't going to keep a socket on the nut or bolt when your using an extension and a u-joint trying to turn everything at nearly a right angle.

Ball detent on the socket wall... patent pending

Wera & Koken already sell those

+1

However, they have spring plunger set screws, so you get the best of all worlds.

The plunger set screws come with all kids of tips (steel, plastic, bronze, etc) and can be purchased in any number of spring strenghts.

 

[jkesselr]

Not to be a naysayer, but this seems like a solution to a problem that doesn’t really exist in all but the most obscure circumstances. Generally speaking, if you can get to it with an Allen wrench to tighten a set screw, you can get to it with your fingers or other tools to either keep the nut or bolt from falling out of the socket, or to get a different tool on it if it is rounded over.

Realize that I say this as, arguably, the biggest tool ***** on this forum. I buy **** just because I *might* one day have a need for it.still, I am just not seeing it here. Just my $0.02.

 

[finn]

I agree. A solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.

Or rarely exists, at least.

 

[noid]

Not to be a naysayer, but this seems like a solution to a problem that doesn’t really exist in all but the most obscure circumstances. Generally speaking, if you can get to it with an Allen wrench to tighten a set screw, you can get to it with your fingers or other tools to either keep the nut or bolt from falling out of the socket, or to get a different tool on it if it is rounded over.

Realize that I say this as, arguably, the biggest tool ***** on this forum. I buy **** just because I *might* one day have a need for it.still, I am just not seeing it here. Just my $0.02.

I guess it depends what you're working on; using extensions and being close enough to hold the socket is a luxury. Certainly even if you could reach, a set screw will be able to hold a socket in place much better than a hand.

 

[Gogo300]

For installing a bolt or nut, I just use electrical tape to hold it in the socket.

 

[garfunkle24]

I see zero utility here. Anything those sockets can do can be done better by magnetic extensions and/or sockets, external extractors etc. If you have room to get hex keys and whatnot in there you have room for a myriad of other options. In fact I can solve this "problem" for the price of one square inch of shop towel. Lay it over the end of a socket, insert nut. I don't believe shop towel is magnetic.

I say this not to be a ****, but to be realistic.

 

[jkesselr]

I guess it depends what you're working on; using extensions and being close enough to hold the socket is a luxury. Certainly even if you could reach, a set screw will be able to hold a socket in place much better than a hand.

I don’t really think it does. I work on everything from old cars to late model stuff. If I can’t get my hand on it, I sure as hell can’t get an Allen wrench on it. I think you are missing the key thing being offered to you on this thread... a host of folks who are more likely than the average bear to buy tools telling you that they don’t see the point. Companies pay obscene amounts of money for market research and, while not scientific, I think this thread should be telling you something. In any event, should you forge ahead, good luck to you!

 

[iamrfixit]

These work pretty well on rounded off heads

 

[Scotts1200]

I took a few cheap MIT impact sockets back in the late 80's.
I Installed a set screw to hold upper transmission bolts on Gm Vehicles.
So you could get to them from above the tail. Made it a lot easier.
You don't have to hold them hard.
Just a bit of tension so you could pull off the bolt when done.
Make sure only to use 6 points sockets they work better.

I also took a 10" long piece of steel tubing 2" dia. and welded 3/4 " plate to each end .
Machine them down to match tube size.
One end I cut a square 1/2" hole for ratchet.
The other end I machined out a hole to fit over inter tierods on New GM cars with Power rack and pinions.
I put 2 set screws acrossed from each other, to hold the tierod while screwing them in tite.

I got those idea's, reading thru stacks of old hotrod magazines from the the 60's.

I don't think it's a new idea by a long shot.
Your patent search should have found many examples.
Sorry!

Sent from my SM-S727VL using Tapatalk

 

[didit]

I have a set of both regular and deep sockets that have magnets in them. The magnets depress if they need to, set on top of a spring to allow space for fitting over studs. I don't think these can be improved on. They were made by Apex and are 40 years old now.
For rounded fasteners I have a set of the example on the right side of the pics. They will remove any rounded nuts or bolts and I wouldn't reuse any rounded hardware. I really think I have it covered already.
Not to say that yours couldn't have a practical use in some cases, but still I think I could do without. I made it to 2020 without.

I just use a bit of plumbers putty to extract any troublesome metal filings on the magnets. That's a non-issue for me.

 

[CR888]

I like the idea, they are a different option for rounded fasteners. Clever idea actually, but with good competitive turbo style sockets under $50 a set, I wonder if the msrp is going to limit sales. At close to $200 you would have to seriously have a 'need' for them, especially without warranty. The tool consumers these days wants a lifetime warranty on a $5 screwdriver and WILL decide their purchase choice off warranty alone. Where as Turbo or extractor sets @$25-$50 you toss in the cart as cheap insurance. But well done, there is merit to the idea. I think adding a dozen spare grub screws would be a good idea included in set.