I think you missed the context of my above post. That's exactly the point I was trying to convey, but for some reason, my tone didn't make it. It seems every second or third poster on this thread is disgusted with Harbor Freight for doing the same thing that Channellock, Wright, Bonney, Snap On, Mac, Matco, and every other tool manufacturer in the world has done. I guess since it's HF, it's an evil thing.
I wasn't sure on context/point - wasn't trying to be snippy. I think we pretty much have the same opinion.
I have no idea what the G.P.'s view of HF is, but, based solely on the fact that there are over 1200 HF stores in the United States, it must be pretty high. I am going to take a guess here and say that 75% of the members of this forum have purchased something from HF, so I guess I am missing the point you are trying to make. Are you pro HF and think the pliers wrench clone is a good thing. Are you anti HF and think that the owner is the scourge of the earth for following his business model? Or are you like me and don't really care? I have a Knipex pliers wrench, I've never used it in the two or three years I've owned it. I'm not running down to HF to buy one, but if I didn't already own the better version, might be tempted to do just that.
I think the general public doesn't think much about it one way or another beyond "that's a place to buy tools" - GarageJournal as a whole appears to have a complicated relationship, but I agree that the number of stores and the expanding product lines would say HF is doing a lot of the right things.
My point is that the general public's view of HF is that is it inexpensive homeowner quality Chinese tools. The people here at the GJ are tool hobbyist to pros. They know what is out there and for the most part they know HF as cheap tools but trying to change thier image by improving quality and options. More stores, no BS warrantees, more brands and quality levels. It is going to take time for the image to change. I see that they are making changes for the better. They have better options now than they did 5 years ago. However alot of people still have a very negative view of HF from 30 or more years of seeing what they sold. That is why you are seeing a lot of cynicism towards HF on this tool. The flip of that is Craftsman. For decades they made very good USA made tools. That started to change about 25 years ago and the quality declined. But still for years people thought highly of them and some still do.
I try to keep an open mind with HF. Most of thier stuff I won't touch. You need to use judgement on each item. You can not blindly trust every brand in their store to have good quality or be good value. I would consider this wrench in question after some people use it for a while and give good feedback. However, I really like the few Knipex tools I own. I use them. To directly answer your question, I am skeptical of HF quality but I know they are changing for the better. I try to keep an open mind. Change is the only constant.
Honestly, I think most people don't look at HF and think "China" - that might have been true twenty or more years ago, but these days I think "inexpensive tools" is probably as far as most people get. I do remember being in there way back, with the funny smells and generally a lot of extremely cheap but generally crappy tools. So I rarely ever went there. I went a loooong time buying Craftsman from Sears because they we decent-or-better tools with good warranty/service for fair prices. And then they weren't. HF has replaced that and then some. They still have some disposable ****, but it's priced accordingly and these days there's almost always a step or two of higher-quality options. I like options
.
In my mind, I don't look at HF any differently than Lowe's or HD. I actually think the customer service is generally better.
Knipex made their nut off this design for the last 30yrs, patent expired now the dogs have it
Also, I would rather have this 99% clone compared to that Irwin/Channelock/etc.. ****.
If you ain't innovating then at least do a good job copying.
Agree.
After following this thread (typical Harbor Freight shitshow thread), I have gathered my thoughts. I believe Knipex will profit from the Icon pliers wrench venture. As has been pointed out, many HF shoppers are either unaware of the pliers wrench concept or they won't fork over the money Knipex wants. I believe that many new Icon users are going to love the concept and want other sizes. Enter Knipex because guess who once again introduces an extremely limited line. Those users that desire a 7" version (myself) are NOT going to pull one off the shelf at Harbor Freight.
If nothing else, Knipex is getting visibility they wouldn't otherwise, and maybe some sales of a 7" (which is the sweetspot size IMHO). The challenge is price point. Knipex is very much in the SnapOn price range, and the general public just isn't going to spend that money on a pair of pliers. Professionals will. Tool nuts will. People who don't want the crappy Irwin/etc. versions (like me) will.
But the vast majority of people who are shopping at the Big Box Home Store are going to look at the price of a Knipex and say "WTF - for that money it better make me tingle someplace special!" and buy the Irwin (or whatever).
FWIW, I think a lot of them will have a similar reaction to the price of the Icon, especially if they've never seen or heard of Knipex. My thoughts were they needed a 7" version as well, and it was about $5 overpriced. It's attractive enough at $34.99 to have people who understand what it is and would probably be really popular when a 10%+ coupon came out. I have a similar opinion of the Doyle versions of the Cobra pliers. Very good tools, but need a few bucks knocked off the list price.
www.kctool.com
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