Looking for design advice based on my plans

[capri_auto]

Hello all,

I should be getting my zoning permit in within the next week and want to get a head start on putting together my want list for my drafter and could use some extra eyes on this. Please see the attached rough floor plan and existing SFH structure. Lower level garage will be 32x32, upper level apt. is 36x32.

The idea behind this project is to add much needed garage space to my home, and provide rental income. This will turn my single family home into a legal 2 family home.

I'm on a pretty tight budget. I would like to stay around 60k. I plan on subbing out much of the work (site work, foundation, framing, siding, roof, drywall, floors)but also plan on doing a fair amount (plumbing/ electric, painting, finishing work). Someone is giving me a high end kitchen with appliances (long story).

Is this budget realistic? I ran the numbers and it seems doable, but I could be missing some pieces.

I will be adding a second electric meter (current home has 150 amp service). Hvac will be multi-head Minisplit with heatpump. (is multi head necessary?) Hot water will be tankless electric. Plumbing will be pex.

I have 3/4 inch service going to my 2br 1 bath home now. Will this be sufficient? I’m on city sewer now. All current utilities are in the basement near the chimney where the addition will tie in and the sewer line is already plumbed for an addition.

Footers need to be 36". Stem wall/ slab. Should I go block or poured?

What do you guys think of the layout? I’m thinking 10 Ft. ceilings for the garage. Apartment will have vaulted ceilings. I will probably widen the dormers a bit. Windows will be mid-grade vinyl double hung. 2x6 exterior worth it? What do you guys think for siding?

I never did anything on this scale so I could use any advice you guys are willing to offer.

 

[matt_i]

Personally I don't think you can build a multi-story finished building with residential space for $60k. Possibly if you did every bit of work yourself and paid only for materials.

My opinion is that for the 2nd floor you are going to be locked into a 3 pour system with full pad footing, stem wall and then the garage floor. I don't trust block as much as poured walls, personally. Block will certainly be cheaper but there's a reason why.

There are probably other considerations between garage and living space, I'd guess at Type X drywall all over the garage and fire-rated doors that connect the two pieces. There may be special fire-exit considerations for the 2nd floor, like an additional exit path (iow not just 1 staircase up). Depends on your locality and the codes they enforce.

2nd floor can be tough to heat and cool energy-efficiently. Without an actual ceiling to mitigate the solar load during cooling system it can require a lot of electricity. I'd make plans to thoroughly insulate the floor and not just treat it as an after thought. Also some form of air circulation would be needed to keep all the heat from collecting at the peak. The warm-room/cold roof becomes more challenging to do if the ceiling is built on the underside of the trusses/rafters....

 

[ard]

60k seems low. Even with you doing all electric, all paint, all finish including trim, doors, cabinets, etc.

IMO a two bedroom seems odd for a 1000sqft space. Who is your target renter? A family of 3 or 4? Or a single person or couple? Consider the impact on you in your home. A one bedroom space ensures less bodies are running around you....

Just my thoughts.

 

[capri_auto]

Personally I don't think you can build a multi-story finished building with residential space for $60k. Possibly if you did every bit of work yourself and paid only for materials.

My opinion is that for the 2nd floor you are going to be locked into a 3 pour system with full pad footing, stem wall and then the garage floor. I don't trust block as much as poured walls, personally. Block will certainly be cheaper but there's a reason why.

There are probably other considerations between garage and living space, I'd guess at Type X drywall all over the garage and fire-rated doors that connect the two pieces. There may be special fire-exit considerations for the 2nd floor, like an additional exit path (iow not just 1 staircase up). Depends on your locality and the codes they enforce.

2nd floor can be tough to heat and cool energy-efficiently. Without an actual ceiling to mitigate the solar load during cooling system it can require a lot of electricity. I'd make plans to thoroughly insulate the floor and not just treat it as an after thought. Also some form of air circulation would be needed to keep all the heat from collecting at the peak. The warm-room/cold roof becomes more challenging to do if the ceiling is built on the underside of the trusses/rafters....

Thank you for the insight. I will be adding ceiling fans to help circulate the air and was thinking a 3 head mini split unit. I will be insulating very well. how about Roxul for the garage ceiling to help cut down on noise and to insulate?

I will looking into fire safety requirements, but I believe they treat 1 and two family residences the same here. I wouldn't mind upgrading doors to help with safety though.

As far as cost I would pay to have the foundation poured and the framing/ roof done. After that I can take my time if need be. I can get the foundation done for 13k or so. What do you think the framing is going to run?

 

[capri_auto]

60k seems low. Even with you doing all electric, all paint, all finish including trim, doors, cabinets, etc.

IMO a two bedroom seems odd for a 1000sqft space. Who is your target renter? A family of 3 or 4? Or a single person or couple? Consider the impact on you in your home. A one bedroom space ensures less bodies are running around you....

Just my thoughts.

Thats about the typical apartment around here with rents running 1700+ per month. I know, crazy right? Target would be young professional single/ couple or 2 college students with parents cosigning (cheaper than student housing). I am walking distance to the train that goes right to Penn station in NYC and the local university. Location, location, location... Short term rentals are another option I thought about which really increases revenue possibility, but will require much more work. I did think about the 1br for that exact reason, but that extra bedroom wont cost much and really increases the rent I can ask.

 

[ddawg16]

Welcome to GJ Capri.

First off....2x6 walls.....YES. The additional cost is minimal. Any time you go over 8', keeping walls straight with 2x4's can be a challenge. And you can put in more insulation.

I think you are going to have trouble getting it done for $60k unless you do more of the work yourself.

Some things you don't want to farm out....foundation and roof. Framing? Ok...the quicker you get it up, roofed and sealed, the better.

You will save the most money if you do your own electrical, plumbing and flooring.

Drywall? Weekend with some buddies and a case of beer?

Assuming you have to stick to your $60K, get the foundation, framing and roof on. Then see where you are. At least you have the garage below as your work area.

 

[ducksface]

I can't imagine the desperation needed to rent a place over an active, not for me, garage in someone's back yard for even remote close to an apartment rental price.

Looking at it from a demand aspect and an INSURANCE aspect, I can't make your plan work.

I also think the probable required exterior stairs, sprinkler system and climate and atmosphere segregation from the shop below are, alone, more than your budget.

60k at credit card payments, is 1800 a month.
If you're not paying cash or not sitting on a ton of unregulated equity....

So much detail you haven't mentioned.

I always start a project from its failure point. How will this not work?
I proceed backwards from there.
Are there any newish builds like this in your area?

 

[capri_auto]

I can't imagine the desperation needed to rent a place over an active, not for me, garage in someone's back yard for even remote close to an apartment rental price.

Looking at it from a demand aspect and an INSURANCE aspect, I can't make your plan work.

I also think the probable required exterior stairs, sprinkler system and climate and atmosphere segregation from the shop below are, alone, more than your budget.

60k at credit card payments, is 1800 a month.
If you're not paying cash or not sitting on a ton of unregulated equity....

So much detail you haven't mentioned.

I always start a project from its failure point. How will this not work?
I proceed backwards from there.
Are there any newish builds like this in your area?

Totally appreciate the comments. I know a lot of these issues are location dependent, but the concept is very financial sound here. I bought the property as a short sale and have a HELOC that will cover the build. Home depot 0% for 24 months and plenty of cash on hand if I need to go over. The numbers work as far as rental prices and demand, this I am sure about. I know the numbers very well and I will gain an even bigger equity position once the build is complete. Debt service, tax increase, water increase, and insurance increase will be about 750/ mo. It will cashflow very well. Short term rentals which are in very high demand here would run about 140 per night with a 70-80% occupancy. Capex isn't going to be an issue since it will be new and I'm not going to be living here forever.

Again, it's all location dependent. This would not work financially where housing prices are lower. This will essentially be a 2 family home which are very common in the area, but very in demand in my town.

I can go on an on about how the finances look, but lets just leave it at that.

Garage will be have soundproofing (roxul isnt that expensive) and tenant will have private entrance away from my home, parking, and large yard access. The way the garage and main home are separated we would not ever hear each other, no shared walls. They will be getting a very high end kitchen and bath (kitchen is being given to me). This matters in my area. Egress isn't an issue. No need for sprinkler in a 2 family, not sure if that is a requirement by you, but def not here. Fire suppression would be for commercial multi family, 4+ units. Garage will be used for small projects. I'm not doing milling work or painting cars.

I am more concerned with the actual build, and specs of the build.

 

[capri_auto]

Welcome to GJ Capri.

First off....2x6 walls.....YES. The additional cost is minimal. Any time you go over 8', keeping walls straight with 2x4's can be a challenge. And you can put in more insulation.

I think you are going to have trouble getting it done for $60k unless you do more of the work yourself.

Some things you don't want to farm out....foundation and roof. Framing? Ok...the quicker you get it up, roofed and sealed, the better.

You will save the most money if you do your own electrical, plumbing and flooring.

Drywall? Weekend with some buddies and a case of beer?

Assuming you have to stick to your $60K, get the foundation, framing and roof on. Then see where you are. At least you have the garage below as your work area.

2x6 it is! 65k is a target, but under 100k is where I need to be for this to make sense. I have no problem with sweat equity. I'd like to get it poured framed and sealed up in 2 months. I have 4 days off a week in the summer, so I can do a lot of work then. I came up with about 8500 for material costs for framing, but have not gotten bids for labor. I have a good roofing guy, and it doesn't make that much sense for me to do it myself. Still on the fence with the framing. I'm not confident with taking on the foundation, but I can be swayed... How do you feel about the foundation work you did on your addition?

 

[ard]

Garage will be have soundproofing (roxul isnt that expensive)

There is no such thing as a soundproof garage ceiling. Especially not with your budget.

Garage door opening at 6:15AM when you leave will be a joy...... I do know the area though, and tenants will put up with a lot of ****. At $1700 a month? I guess you will find out.

How much construction experience do you have? Framing this is not a one person, task. What you and a buddy can do in a two months of 4 days a week, an experience crew of 4 can do in 4 days

 

[capri_auto]

There is no such thing as a soundproof garage ceiling. Especially not with your budget.

Garage door opening at 6:15AM when you leave will be a joy...... I do know the area though, and tenants will put up with a lot of ****. At $1700 a month? I guess you will find out.

How much construction experience do you have? Framing this is not a one person, task. What you and a buddy can do in a two months of 4 days a week, an experience crew of 4 can do in 4 days

Yes, you are 100% correct. I know the drone of the garage door all too well. I lived above my parents garage growing up. I leave for work at 8am, but that is a very good point. Are there quieter opener options? Something I should deff look into.

I never did ground up construction, but have done a lot of reno work. If I subbed out the foundation, framing, and roof I can probably get the shell done within a month. Just about everything else I can do myself.

Including permits, I should be able to sub out the shell and stay around 40k. 2000 permits, 850 drawing, 13k foundation, 5k roof, 15k framing?, 2k garage door. These are just round numbers. Still thinking about siding options and what will match my fugly house best. Leaves me around 25k to finish up the upstairs. Even if I go over 20k I am still ok... the debt service on that is nothing and the equity gain is solid. Still unsure of that framing number though. Anyone have a ballpark? I don't want to get bids without my drawings.

 

[capri_auto]

Using nylon silent rollers in conjunction with a the right opener and roxul ceiling insulation seems like it should solve the garage door noise issue. I'm pretty excited about that.

 

[ddawg16]

2x6 it is! 65k is a target, but under 100k is where I need to be for this to make sense. I have no problem with sweat equity. I'd like to get it poured framed and sealed up in 2 months. I have 4 days off a week in the summer, so I can do a lot of work then. I came up with about 8500 for material costs for framing, but have not gotten bids for labor. I have a good roofing guy, and it doesn't make that much sense for me to do it myself. Still on the fence with the framing. I'm not confident with taking on the foundation, but I can be swayed... How do you feel about the foundation work you did on your addition?

I farmed out the foundation, roof and stucco.....oh, and the insulation. I would have saved about $400 on the insulation...but taken up a week of my time....

Don't even think about trying to do the foundation yourself.....that is just pure grunt work....

 

[capri_auto]

I farmed out the foundation, roof and stucco.....oh, and the insulation. I would have saved about $400 on the insulation...but taken up a week of my time....

Don't even think about trying to do the foundation yourself.....that is just pure grunt work....

Practical advice, thank you. 400 bucks for a week of my life, easy buy.

What do you think about garage doors. 1 double or 2 single?

 

[ddawg16]

Practical advice, thank you. 400 bucks for a week of my life, easy buy.

What do you think about garage doors. 1 double or 2 single?

That is a tough one actually....each has advantages.....

Double.....
1. Only need one garage door opener
2. Larger clear space to get stuff in and out
3. Need bigger header
4. Cheaper

2 Singles
1. Header can be smaller because you have center support
2. Not as much room to get vehicles in and out.
3. Looks better (IMO)
4. Requires 2 garage door openers
5. Cost more

Except for the slightly better look, I'd be inclined to go with a single. The versatility of having the larger opening to get wide stuff in and out would trump the look.

That is assuming you use the garage all the time.
One option is to oversize the single doors....

 

[capri_auto]

Lowes has 16 foot Pella branded doors with windows for under 1k that look pretty nice. I like the idea of a bigger door for the reasons you listed. The only thing I am worried about is the amount of cold air that will be let in during the winter months and how that will effect the upstairs apt. Either way I am going to have to insulate the ceiling very well so I guess it won't matter that much. I am leaning toward the large single door.

When you added your addition, did you notice a water pressure drop?

 

[jetnow1]

I just built a 24 by 30 garage with an unfinished top floor, using a 12 in 12 pitch. Picture a small cape, it is very similar in shape/size. The total to date
is just about 25 thousand and it is a shell with siding and windows/doors.
I subbed the foundation, framed, roofed and sided it myself( I did have my 64 year old buddy help with the rafters as 17 foot rafters are too long for one man.) Electric will run about 2500 plus renting a backhoe to dig the 100 foot trench for the conduit. Sheetrock, insulation and inside paint yet to be bought.

I am a contractor and do not think I would try to do what you are planning for
60K, but at 100K you should be ok if you are really able to do all you plan to do. Goog luck

 

[capri_auto]

I just built a 24 by 30 garage with an unfinished top floor, using a 12 in 12 pitch. Picture a small cape, it is very similar in shape/size. The total to date
is just about 25 thousand and it is a shell with siding and windows/doors.
I subbed the foundation, framed, roofed and sided it myself( I did have my 64 year old buddy help with the rafters as 17 foot rafters are too long for one man.) Electric will run about 2500 plus renting a backhoe to dig the 100 foot trench for the conduit. Sheetrock, insulation and inside paint yet to be bought.

I am a contractor and do not think I would try to do what you are planning for
60K, but at 100K you should be ok if you are really able to do all you plan to do. Goog luck

That's a big trench. Are you subbing out the electric? If you don't mind sharing, what did the concrete work and digging run you? I'm saving a good amount since I can pull drainage, electric, and water right from my house (15 foot run for the drainage).

 

[capri_auto]

I thought this build was pretty inspirational. He did a hell of a job working on a budget- http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49785